How to deal with "red states" secession: It would be very messy.

[AlinPA]

We had a long discussion around pizza and beer last night about states' secession.
Assuming, TX, MS, AL, OK, KS, GA, AR, KY, WVA, LA, ID, UT, WY were to secede, there would be a lot of questions:

-What to do with military bases? There are a lot in those States.
-US interstate highways would be a big issue.
-Interstate commerce would be changed to export/import.
-Since the republicans don't believe in taxes, existing federal services would be eliminated for those states.
-VA would be very hard to resolve between resulting countries.
-Assuming the "red states" secede, what happens to the Democrats who live there? Would they be persecuted?

After a few rounds of beers we all decided it would be too big a headache for the seceding states.

[valerief]

1. I'll try.

-What to do with military bases? There are a lot in those States. MOVE 'EM.
-US interstate highways would be a big issue. BLOCK 'EM.
-Interstate commerce would be changed to export/import. YES.
-Since the republicans don't believe in taxes, existing federal services would be eliminated for those states. YES.
-VA would be very hard to resolve between resulting countries. VETERANS COULD MOVE TO AMERICA.
-Assuming the "red states" secede, what happens to the Democrats who live there? Would they be persecuted? THEY'D MOVE. ALL AMERICANS SHOULD MOVE TO AMERICA. FED GOVT. COULD PROVIDE MOVING EXPENSES AND PROVIDE HOUSING. PLENTY OF FORECLOSURES, PLENTY OF HOUSES.

[Joe the Revelator]

27. "VA" as in Virginia , not veteran's affairs.

[Shinimegami]

34. But Virginia's not a red state anymore.

It's turned way too blue to consider secession.

[AlinPA]

37. Veteran's Admin.

[quickesst]

33. Ha ha....

"THEY'D MOVE. ALL AMERICANS SHOULD MOVE TO AMERICA. FED GOVT. COULD PROVIDE MOVING EXPENSES AND PROVIDE HOUSING. PLENTY OF FORECLOSURES, PLENTY OF HOUSES."

We'd just face the same goddamn horse-shit we get from the blue-state, stereo-type gobbling nincompoops we get now. The only difference being, they would get to say it to our face. Here's a flash for you. Even if my state were to secede, I would find it much more preferable to remain here and fight to change what has occurred, rather than move to a state where I am stereotypically labeled by how I talk, and where I'm from. It's the elitist's greatest flaw. They don't see states with republican majorities. They simply see "red states". When they refer to blue states, they don't see states that have Democratic majorities. They are just "blue states", inferring that republicans, racists, and others with undesireable traits do not exist there. Thanks but no thanks. Use the free house for storage. I like mine just fine.
quickesst

[annabanana]

2. how about

1)Shut down those military bases and relocate them INSIDE the US.
2)Erect a fence to keep those furriners OUT of our Country.
3)MAYBE we'll let them have "most favored Nation" status.. (I would revisit NAFTA immediately).
4)Of COURSE all federal funds would be redistributed to the states IN the United States.
5)We would treat the expat Vets in those ex-states the same way we treat Vets who have taken citizenship in other foreign countries.
6)The Democrats would be free to move back to the US without prejudice for a certain period of time (TBD)

I'll bet that was a fun night :P

[doctor jazz]

3. What a waste of time. Nobody's going to secede.

No state is even .000001% of the way toward even being serious about such silliness.


:eyes:

[AlinPA]

6. A waste of time? Nine of us did some real damage to two cases of beer.

The pizza was good, even had anchovies.

[doctor jazz]

7. Well, shit... Well done!

I mean 'a few beers' is pretty minimal

:rofl:

But let's make sure you're not fudging...as it were, was this real beer and not Budweiser or some similar kind of horsepiss?
:D

[AlinPA]

28. Yuengling and Rolling Rock.

[doctor jazz]

30. I should have known...from the PA reference. But you do know RR is now owned by Busch?

which is in turn owned by somebody from Belgium or one of those minimalist Old European Duchys...
:D

[AlinPA]

32. Yes, I live near Latrobe. What's phony is how Busch kept the label that says

" "Rolling Rock - From the glass lined tanks of Old Latrobe, we tender this premium beer for your enjoyment as a tribute to your good taste. It comes from the mountain springs to you."

They use New Jersey water.

The brewery in Latrobe is used by Sam Adams now.

[Richard Steele]

12. Al, I was really agreeing with you for a minute there, until...

..you mentioned anchovies.

That's a HORRIBLE thing to do to perfectly good pizza!

[NightWatcher]

4. at least give me a chance to win back my state (GA) for the Union

I can fight against those aged, white, fat doughboys.

Just threaten to cancel Nascar and they'll come back to the group

[TK421]

10. We'd love to have you on our side

:thumbsup: I'm not sure what your feelings are about the state, but I met some of the nicest people driving back home to PA ( when I moved back in 2001 )I'm assuming the Nascar reference was joking at best ( I thought most of them were in Florida, where I lived )

[LakeSamish706]

5. Some of those States would be land locked, be interesting to see how they...

would go about dealing with that.

[AZ Criminal JD]

13. This is 2009

Most trade is not by shipping.

[LakeSamish706]

14. I wasn't necessarily meaning shipping, I was referring to entering into...

US airspace for example. If we denied them entry, they are screwed.

[AZ Criminal JD]

17. And the U.S. would be screwed when they did the same

That's why countries don't do that to each other.

[NutmegYankee]

23. The US would have every reason to do that.

This wouldn't be a friendly breakup.

[AZ Criminal JD]

26. It would mess up U.S. air patterns far more that it would hurt the states.

The U.S. would not want to do that unless you want your plane tickets to go up 4 or 5 times what they are now.

[MadMaddie]

40. They wouldn't have a clue....the problem is when they win

what they want they screw themselves.

[NutmegYankee]

8. Simple: Attack the traitors and Crush them

Just like Article 1 allows:

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

[AZ Criminal JD]

16. The Federalist Papers said that section was for insurrections occurring within states

Nothing about states' seceding. New York and most of the northeastern states conditioned their ratification of the Constitution on the right of secession.

[NutmegYankee]

22. Guess they should have had that in the contract...

The precedent has been set through civil war.

[AZ Criminal JD]

25. They did have that in the contract but Lincoln ignored it and settled it by force.

So you are correct the precedent has been set.

[Shinimegami]

36. No state has the legal right to secede.

The Supreme Court dealt with that in Texas v. White, 1868. Any secession attempt is inherently a rebellion.

The idea that some states only approved the Constitution on the condition that they could secede is a myth. No "conditions" that aren't actually in the text of the Constitution would be legally valid.

[AZ Criminal JD]

47. Not true.

Ratification votes in several states, including New York, were conditioned on that event that the states could ssecede if they desired. The Constitutional Congress accepted those votes with that condition. Lincoln ignored it and used force to keep the union. The SC ruling was an afterthought to the civil war and has no real meaning beyond that.

[JVS]

21. hear hear!

[tsuki]

9. The CBC did a drama on Quebec seceding from the rest of

Canada years ago. It was very interesting. Some of the issues were, currency, rail, division of current treasury, Big Headache.

[AZ Criminal JD]

18. That what the loyalists said in the early 1770s in the colonies.

Things would be worked out sooner or later. If a state wants to go I say let them go. This country has become too big to govern anyway.

[noamnety]

11. Missing one key question:

What portion of the national debt do they get?

If the answer is zero, hell maybe we all should secede.

[skepticscott]

24. None of it

The remaining legitimate government of the United States is still liable for all of it, no matter how many states are left.

[InvisibleTouch]

15. Wasn't that issue settled about 150 years ago? n/t

[AZ Criminal JD]

19. The Constitution is a living document.

There are a lot of things that have been "settled" over the years but circumstances change and so they become "unsettled".

[JVS]

20. B-52s are how to deal with them

[Athelwulf]

31. Boys in bikinis! Girls on surfboards!

Everybody's rockin'
Everybody's fruggin'
Twistin' round the fire, havin' fun
Bakin' potatoes, bakin' in the sun

[atommom]

39. rock... rock... ROCK LOBSTER! Down! Down! nt

[rampart]

29. ethnic cleansing

is in the LA state budget if these yahoos seceed.

perhaps orleans parish could reseceed west va style.

[xchrom]

35. treaties and trade pacts alone would make the new country

come back and fast.

what texas would need from mexico and other places would sure be surprise though --

[TexasObserver]

38. None of these candy ass Republicans have the guts to secede. They'll all talk.

The hallmark of the modern GOP conservative is they're all talk. They love to talk like they're bad asses, but they're just asses. Look at Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck. Those guys would burst into tears if you gave them a titty twister.

The irony is the biggest chest thumping pseudo patriots in the country are clamoring for secession.

[WeDidIt]

41. IT would be worse for the seceding states

because the perpetrators would be rounded up and imprisoned by federal troops.

End of secession.

[malaise]

42. What percent of the national debt would be theirs? n/t

[santamargarita]

43. Don't forget, we'll need a Moat around those States stocked with alligators

:woohoo:

[Joey Liberal]

44. I think secession is doable

Do we really want a country with tea baggers? I've had it with republicans. Let the sorry bastards secede.

-What to do with military bases? There are a lot in those States. - Move them to the Blue States
-US interstate highways would be a big issue. - Where the former states begin, the responsibilities for that highway ends for the U.S.A.
-Interstate commerce would be changed to export/import. - Not a problem
-Since the republicans don't believe in taxes, existing federal services would be eliminated for those states. - sounds good to me.
-VA would be very hard to resolve between resulting countries. - hard, but not impossible
-Assuming the "red states" secede, what happens to the Democrats who live there? Would they be persecuted? - I think they would want to move, but its up to them

I really don't want to see any secession, but this is apparently what the republicans want. So, I say fuck them and let them secede. The problem is they would probably invade us sooner or later...............

What would the republicans call their new country? Rush Limbaugh Land?

Would their flag be the Confederate flag?

We know who their state sponsored news channel would be...............

[AnnieBW]

45. Not to mention communications

Fiber optic lines for all of the major communications companies (and the government) cross those states.

[dflprincess]

46. So if Texas secedes and Bush continues to live there -

which will be outside the borders of the U.S. - could Spain demand his extradition. - Or maybe do what the Israelis did when they grabbed Eichmann?
Maybe Spain could declare war on Texas in an effort to get the war criminal.

I'm starting to think Texas seceding might work for us.

[GirolamoSavonarola]

48. But is it a worse headache than what presently exists?

Yes, even a peaceful secession would be messy and painful, but is it still better than the growing ideological chasm between red & blue? My fear is that if things continue as they are then there very well could be bloodshed in a 2nd civil war 10-15 years from now. Perhaps something similar occurs like what the Indians did last century in letting the Islamic conservatives form their own country which is now Pakistan. They did this after realizing that the ideological differences between the 2 peoples groups (Isalmist and Hindu) would never be rectified. The Hindus had grown weary of the often violent opposition of their Islamist neighbors and the Islamists had grown weary of Hindu majority enacting laws that they heartily opposed. Some would say the present state of Pakistan is proof that dividing the people is a bad idea, but India would have been in far worse shape had she tried to hold the states together. There is no way she could have progressed to the rank of G-20 status that she now enjoys. She would have been handcuffed by outdated conservativism like keeping girls pregnant and barefoot.

Could America be "held back" developmentally by hanging on to states who oppose its rule? Its like playing a pickup basketball game of 25 where one of the participants really has no interest in competing. The game would be more enjoyable with fewer participants who are excited to play.

[and-justice-for-all]

49. Those dipshits are not going any where..

its just when your kid does not get what he wants and threatens to run away...WHATEVER. Sit down and shut up.

When we lost in 04, did we threaten to run away from home? NOPE and when they robbed us in 2000, did we threaten to run away from home? NOPE. Secession is a repuke temper-tantrum..