Does anybody realize that the fact we are even seeing these memos is a HUGE step?

[Taverner]

Imagine Bushco releasing torture memos. Shit, anytime they had a question put to them, the answer was always "I dunno"

The fact that these are coming to light is amazing.

If we can't prosecute "Company" members for this, that's still better than I expected.

Honestly - Obama is one man, a man who's life is in the hands of such individuals. Yes, all the CIA has to do is sit on a report about an assassin and their problem is solved. Our intelligence agencies have more power than you can really imagine.

Jesus Fucking Christ, did you want a SADDLE with that PONY too?

[EFerrari]

1. So are you now browbeating DUers who want a transparent government?

Excuse the eff out of me for my thought crime.

[Taverner]

4. No - I am browbeating DUers who do not see the road to transparency for what it is

Just because the torturers aren't swinging from trees at this moment has made everyone bat shit crazy

Let me get this straight - you are expecting someone who has been in office for 4 months to burn every conceivable bridge with the intel community overnight? I remember someone who did that once - and that man was shot in Dallas. I do not want to see the same thing happen with Obama.

And don't think its not a risk..

Let me ask you a question - would you rather have a martyr, or someone who worked slowly, consciously and deliberately to a better future?

[TTUBatfan2008]

9. I agree, the CIA has a ton of power...

in fact, TOO much power if you ask me. Cheney said that fighting terrorists is a "dirty business," well the CIA's intelligence activity is a dirty business all the way around, whether it is dealing with terrorists, pirates, or the likes of Iran and North Korea. I dare say the CIA has more power than the President.

[Taverner]

11. Too much power indeed

They probably hold more power than all three branches of gov't combined

[TTUBatfan2008]

12. Damn right...

The only branch that is even close IMHO is the Secret Service, but it's pretty clear with Kennedy's assassination that they've got the S.S. beat hands down as well.

[Occam Bandage]

7. This is transparency.

Lawsuits have nothing to do with transparency. They may, in fact, discourage it. Why would someone want to release documents that would get the releaser thrown in jail?

[Taverner]

10. VERY GOOD point!

[EFerrari]

27. Have you ever heard of the term "discovery"?

[Life Long Dem]

13. It's awfully hard wanting something we are receiving (change).

That's the whole point of the OP's discussion.

If DU'ers can try to contribute to the discussion in a more meaningful way, instead of rushing to be the first one to post it would be appreciated.

Thank you very much.:-)

[Taverner]

17. Although I think he's taking offense to my last line

Which was a last minute addition - but I feel the slam fits

But it could be taken in that way

[EFerrari]

29. It's she, Taverner and you know what, I could have used a pony today.

lol

peace,
B.

[EFerrari]

28. Baloney. I never sought immunity for torturers. And I don't feel grateful

that our federal government is making noises like it may function again.

If you don't find that "meaninful", that's your problem.

Thank you!

[LakeSamish706]

2. I wonder if it was pressure that made them release this info. or if they...

were going to anyway? Be interesting to know.

[liberalmuse]

3. I'm very pleasantly surprised.

This is really big, and I commend our President for releasing these, even though he has been under tremendous pressure not to. Viva LaBama!

[bluestateguy]

5. But, but, I want MORE!!!!

:cry:

[malaise]

18. We all want more

but in three months we've had more transparency from Obama than we had in eight years of Bush.

[AndyA]

6. I think the CIA had more against Bush than it does Obama.

After all, Bush's administration outed one of their agents for political reasons. An agent that apparently was quite good at their job, and by outing this person, lots of other CIA operatives were put at risk. If anyone should have been concerned about the CIA, it was Bushco.

Obama is on record as stating no one will be prosecuted if they were doing their job in accordance with the legal opinion given to them at the time. That sounds like most will be in the clear, and it sends an ominous message to the higher ups: we're coming after you.

Obama was given a pile of crap to work with. In the short time he's been in office, I think he's done pretty well. I hope he doesn't decide to look the other way on past crimes, though. I think that would be a bad precedent for him to set, and he would lose a lot of support and tarnish his presidency if he did nothing.

[Taverner]

8. Its not that they have anything on him - its that they could order his death

And make it look like a "lone nut"

They've done it before

[HillbillyBob]

14. Of course they had the goods on Bush, and daddy Bush likely

had plenty goods on the CIA, he was a member of skullnbonz in good standing since what prior to ww2 and a member of CIA since at least then. That nonsense that he was a newbie to the intell game when named to the head of CIA was bs.
I think it is time to get all the old dead wood from the cold war era out and get some real live fresh patriots in there and do away with the ol boys in whatever way necessary. Lord knows they are an unofficial crime organization.

[stillcool]

23. I think the CIA/Pentagon is Bush...

or at least those he represents. The Reagan/Nixon players and then some. Look at how far their roots go back in our government. I don't know if there is a power shift going on, or if the Obama Presidency is an attempt to put a new face on the United States. Perhaps the "American brand" is so tainted it doesn't sell anymore. I am sure of one thing, there are some very, very wealthy people as a result of the last 8 years, and they haven't lost much power since leaving the government.

[slipslidingaway]

15. Do not forget the ACLU lawsuit...

"For more than five years, the ACLU and other advocacy organizations have been seeking the release of Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) memos that supplied the basis for the Bush administration's interrogation, detention, rendition, and warrantless surveillance policies..."

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/olc_memos.html


You can help by signing their petition...

https://secure.aclu.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=Nat_Petition_SpecialProsecutor&s_src=UNW090001ACT&s_subsrc=flyer&JServSessionIdr009=sjsqqdlqw2.app25a



ACLU Agrees To Extension Of Torture Memo Deadline Based On DOJ Pledge To Consider Releasing Bybee Memo (4/2/2009)

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/torture/39276prs20090402.html?s_src=RSS

"The Justice Department has sought an extension of the government's deadline to decide whether to disclose three legal memoranda authored in May 2005 by Steven Bradbury, then a lawyer in the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel (OLC). The memos authorized the CIA to subject prisoners to torture methods including waterboarding. In ongoing Freedom of Information Act litigation brought by the American Civil Liberties Union, a federal judge had given the Justice Department until today to disclose the memos or explain its refusal to do so. The ACLU has consented to extend the production deadline to April 16 in return for the government's representation that high-level officials will consider the release not only of the Bradbury memos but also a memo authored in August 2002 by Jay S. Bybee, who was then the head of the OLC. The Bush administration had previously withheld the Bybee memo.

The following can be attributed to Jameel Jaffer, Director of the ACLU National Security Project:

"We reluctantly consented to this extension based on the government's representation that within two weeks it will re-review not only the May 2005 Bradbury memos included in today's deadline but also the August 2002 Bybee memo that was one of the cornerstones of the CIA's torture program. Collectively, these memos supplied the framework for an interrogation program that permitted the most barbaric forms of abuse, violated domestic and international law, alienated America's allies and yielded information that was both unreliable and unusable in court. Using national security as a pretext, the Bush administration managed to suppress these memos for years, denying the public crucial information about government policy and shielding government officials from accountability. While we are disappointed that the Bradbury memos were not released today, we are optimistic that the extension will result in the release of information that would not otherwise have been available to the public."

[Taverner]

16. Yes, and I hope they win

And get convictions - that way, Obama can't take the blame - it was those "Liburl Judges" :)

[slipslidingaway]

19. They did win by getting the memos released, now we have to

pressure Holder to investigate and bring charges based on that evidence.

:)

[KoKo]

20. Absolutely....it's a good thing. We knew they were there, but to have them released

is extremely positive.

[Duende azul]

21. Yes, but they were due today anyway. And rest assured they are only a small glimpse of reality.

Could easily be a limited hangout. No further questions asked.

Sad state of affairs when the big news is that the government obeys the law.

But giving the criminals a free pass was not necessary at this moment. Release the memos and let things follow their course.
In exchange for getting to the higher ups they could have used possible impunity as incentive later on.

[Taverner]

22. Yes yes and no

Think long term

[deaniac21]

24. Transparent on torture, not so transparent on the CRISIS.

[GeorgeGist]

25. What planet are you from ...

that you expect so little leadership?

:nuke:
:freak:

[Number23]

26. You know what? That is actually a FANTASTIC point

Thanks for making it. :)

Happy to rec

[arcadian]

30. This post is so very Pavlovian