We need to prosecute the rank and file torturers.

[rhett o rick]

Like we did with Lynndie England. Why should they get a break?

They are the ones that actually beat people in the head, slammed prisoners heads into walls, hung humans from ceilings by their chained wrists, waterboarded, and maybe the worse was sensory deprivation, which can make you insane within hours.

These people don’t get off because Gonzo wrote a memo that superseded the Constitution and the Geneva Convention. These people knew what they were doing was wrong. But these people are special, they are sick sadists and the CIA wants them on the payroll. What kind of human being could do these atrocities?

And how about the humans that died at the hands of these sicko’s? Were they not murdered? Do these murderers get a free ride? Were these sicko’s "officials who acted reasonably. . ."?? I have heard that over a hundred have died from torture but have no source for that.

How can President Obama buy into this travesty?

And of course I want Gonzo, Rummy and Yoo and the other mid level torturers prosecuted.

And also George W. Bush and Richard Cheney should be prosecuted but they won’t be. Seems politicians look out for each other.

[katandmoon]

1. K&R

[Solly Mack]

2. Oh now, wouldn't want to ruin the "bad apples" lie now would we?

That said

The techniques used at Abu Ghraib came over from GTMO (and Bagram)

So..yes...they too were just doing what had been authorized to do by the White House.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/13/AR2005071302380_pf.html


The techniques, approved by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld for use in interrogating Mohamed Qahtani -- the alleged "20th hijacker" in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks -- were used at Guantanamo Bay in late 2002 as part of a special interrogation plan aimed at breaking down the silent detainee.


A central figure in the investigation, Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, who commanded the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay and later helped set up U.S. operations at Abu Ghraib, was accused of failing to properly supervise Qahtani's interrogation plan and was recommended for reprimand by investigators. Miller would have been the highest-ranking officer to face discipline for detainee abuses so far, but Gen. Bantz Craddock, head of the U.S. Southern Command, declined to follow the recommendation.

Miller traveled to Iraq in September 2003 to assist in Abu Ghraib's startup, and he later sent in "Tiger Teams" of Guantanamo Bay interrogators and analysts as advisers and trainers. Within weeks of his departure from Abu Ghraib, military working dogs were being used in interrogations, and naked detainees were humiliated and abused by military police soldiers working the night shift.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/24/world/the-struggle-for-iraq-abuse-afghan-deaths-linked-to-unit-at-iraq-prison.html?sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all

A military intelligence unit that oversaw interrogations at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq was also in charge of questioning at a detention center in Afghanistan where two prisoners died in December 2002 in incidents that are being investigated as homicides.

[rhett o rick]

3. Well maybe we could extend the "few bad apples" theory to include more of

the sadistic torturers including Gonzo etc.

[Solly Mack]

4. I'd like that! The Orchard of Torture

Johnny Appleseed Government

[ihavenobias]

5. I always hated that line.

A few "bad apples" I mean. Complete BS!

[Solly Mack]

22. Me too. It was such a blatant lie

[sam kane]

6. Don't care if their Mommy said it was okay.

Torture is torture.

It is illegal.

[rhett o rick]

9. and immoral. nm

[snot]

7. My concern is, once you've let the little fish off the hook, how do you

get them to come back and testify against the big fish?

[rhett o rick]

10. Great point. nm

[Orsino]

8. How else will we teach the others...

...that "I was only following orders" is not back in vogue as an excuse?

[FrenchieCat]

11. Why is it President Obama's job to make sure that

these folks are prosecuted? Can you name the part of the constitution that makes this Barack Obama's job?

[rhett o rick]

13. He has a lot of influence over whoever's job it is. I don't care as long as we get

prosecutions.

[Time for change]

23. He appears to have gone further than simply not prosecuting

It appears that he's endorsed the idea that they have immunity from prosecution:
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/04/cia_officers_granted_immunity_from_torture_prosecution.php

Do you think that's ok?

When we prosecuted the Nazis at Nuremburg, we made it clear that "just following orders" was not a legitimate excuse for committing atrocities that the perpetrators should have known were wrong. I always supported the Nuremburg trials (though I wasn't yet born then). Consequently I deeply regret that my country would distance itself from the humanitarian idea that "just following orders" is not an excuse of committing atrocities.

[TNOE]

12. Lyndie England

Heard on CSPAN this morning that someone is writing a book about her - that her life is ruined, she's a single mother and cannot get a job now and the military won't take her back either. Scapegoat of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld - and all the others who went to jail.

[havocmom]

24. Lt Calley for a new century?

I hear lots of the military brass from Calley's day went on to bigger and better things.

Personally, I would rather the little fish swim through the net if that is what helps catch the big fish.

[L0oniX]

14. No we should not! Everyone would torture given the right circumstances.

see here ---> http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5477120&mesg_id=5477120

The Milgram Experiment showed that many would torture.

[Generator]

15. This Democratic liberal site just gets better and better

WOW. That Obama guy brings us all hope!

YES, I know of that experiment but this is the worst fucking response to anything as serious as torture that I've ever read in the history of DU.

Edit to add I see from your profile you are proud of being Satan-at least you are more honest than most Du'ers these days!

[L0oniX]

21. Yea right, like I would put any real info in my profile. I did that once and an asshole DU member...

called my place of work and made threats. DOH!

[rhett o rick]

16. That does not relieve them from responsibility. They did horrendous things. nm

[NNN0LHI]

17. Do you think everyone would rape a child given the right circumstances?

What do you suggest we do with the people who did that? Let them go too?

Would you want filth like that as a next door neighbor and not know what they had done in the past?

I don't believe it is fair to our soldiers that we have no way to distinguish the rapists from the decent ones?

Don

[JVS]

18. I think they should be prosecuted, but I would also be happy if they were to turn "state's evidence"

on their superiors.

[MrCoffee]

19. They CANNOT be prosecuted...there's no law to prosecute them under.

Section 6 of the Military Commissions Act of 2006 decriminalized all of that. Every instance of torture you describe in the OP is not a crime.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Of course you are correct