United Airlines to charge obese for two seats

[moez]

United Airlines will start charging obese passengers for a second seat on flights on or after March 4 for travel on or after April 15.

According to United's Web site, the policy relates to passengers fitting the following criteria:

Unable to fit into a single seat in the ticketed cabin
Unable to properly buckle the seatbelt using a single seatbelt extender
Unable to put the seat's armrests down when seated

Passengers falling under any of those criteria will be relocated next to an empty seat.

If no unused seats are available, the customer must either purchase an upgrade to a cabin with available seats or change to the next available flight and purchase a second seat.

Customers who meet the criteria and do not purchase the second seat will not be allowed on the flight.

"Please understand that we care a great deal about all of our customers' well-being, and we have implemented this policy to help ensure that everyone's travel experiences with United are comfortable and pleasant," United said on its Web site.

United Airlines is the largest commercial-passenger airline at Honolulu International Airport, according to the Pacific Business News' 2009 Book of Lists. It is run by Elk Grove, Ill.-based UAL Corp. (Nasdaq: UAUA).

http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2009/04/13/daily43.html


.... thank God!

[lurky]

1. Mixed feelings here.

As someone who has "shared" a seat with huge people, I understand it. However, this is effectively banning a certain class of person from air travel, unless they have the money to buy 2 tickets whenever they go anywhere. That rubs me the wrong way. Is there an ADA argument here?

[moez]

3. I've been pinned in on some loooong trips myself....

It's absolutely miserable.

I can't see how ADA would fit into the picture - are twinkie addictions a disability?

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scout]

47. "are twinkie addictions a disability"

what a bunch of shit.

:eyes:

[WI_DEM]

55. There are many reasons for obesity other than "twinkie addictions" like being poor...

I don't know if you've lowered your nose to notice that lots of people who are poor are also overweight. This is caused by the diet they must eat because as a rule more healthy foods are more expensive. And there are also reasons such as medical conditions. Yes, some people are obese thru there own fault, but you can't simply label everyone you see that way.

[JNelson6563]

61. You have to eat a lot of any kind of food to be obese

I live in an affluent area and the people here who are obese are not poor, not even close. A lot of people, most who are obese certainly--not just overweight, eat too much. It's really that simple.

Julie

[madeline_con]

79. Moot point. The poor don't fly much. Because they're poor.

[Statistical]

90. Got a point. (n/t)

[npk]

96. Excellent post. Thank You.

I will refrain from adding my sentiments to that despicable reply.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

63. Is douche-baggery? How do you cope?

[burning rain]

75. Perhaps if the person in question....

has a medical condition that causes fat to grow out of food not eaten.

[dipsydoodle]

7. I was in an aisle seat

9/11 mid Atlantic and the extremely large american girl in the centre seat was spread like melting butter across both me and the guy in the window seat.

Squidged against the side of my seat I was determined not to speak her but when the captain told us why we were turning back I felt sorry for her and we then spent the rest of the journey chatting.

[madeline_con]

78. Cry me a river.

I don't have money for one ticket, and I have to accept that. Until my income rises, flight is not an option for me.

Maybe eating less would free up some erstwhile grocery money for travel for the obese. We choose our priorities.

[varkam]

84. Jesus. Am I on DU?

:crazy:

[madamesilverspurs]

82. Pardon my lard, but

I found myself rather suddenly larger a few years back. Diagnosed with a pulmonary embolism (blot clot in the lung), I was given heparin and promptly hemorrhaged. Following emergency surgery and a couple of flat-line episodes I spent a couple weeks in ICU, followed by a stint in a rehab facility to get things working again. Large doses of steroids were part of the life-saving regimen, but I packed on over 100 pounds in less than a year. I've man gaged to lose more than half of that additional poundage, but the rest is being stubborn in the extreme.

I mention all this here because a possible source of the clot is deep vein thrombosis, most likely incurred during several hours spent confined to my seat on a United Airlines plane that sat on the tarmac awaiting a replacement part for one of the warning lights in the cockpit.

Flying since then has been uncomfortable at best. And I would not appreciate the irony if United attempted to double my fare.

[HelenWheels]

2. They should charge me less

because I am very small and don't fill up a seat. Also, if the damn seats were regular human size maybe the obese would fit. Would it be cheaper to fly first class than pay for two coach fares? I don't have much love for the airline industry because they are rip-off artists.

[dmallind]

6. At least when I've checked into it normal first class = 5-7X price. NT

[dysfunctional press]

13. that's if you compare a discounted coach fare.

first class isn't 5-7x the unrestricted full coach fare.

[dmallind]

38. Wouldn't know - who pays full fare themselves? Even competent businesses can do better, NT

[dysfunctional press]

48. believe it or not, people do.

i used to be a corporate travel agent, and people DO purchase full coach fares.
the airlines wouldn't be able to operate most flights if all the tickets sold were the heavily discounted ones.

[dmallind]

49. Good lord - well then that's the problem solved - they already paid twice! :) NT

jjl

[dysfunctional press]

12. only if you'd be willing to share your seat with another small person.

[HelenWheels]

20. Might be interesting

if it's the right small person. How about this? I would sit next to an obese person and share my seat with them for a cut in my fare.

[dysfunctional press]

30. why not just cut out the middle-man and sell space on your seat to the obese person directly...?

maybe someone could start an airline-seat clearinghouse, to match up fat travelers with small travelers...:shrug:

[SmileyRose]

74. That actually has potential -- match.com for travelers.

[jazzjunkysue]

32. Right. let the huge person pay half my airfare, and I'l lthink about it....

But if I'm paying for a whole seat, it's all mine, baby. Get your own.

If you're that big, you already know it, and shouldn't be shocked when you sit down and don't fit.

Give me a break. Like you never noticed it before.....

[CTyankee]

45. But what do you do about it? Do you say something to the obese person?

My experience is that while obese people on these flights know what their size is they have to sit somewhere. I don't know if they choose very small people to sit down with but surely they must understand that the other person may be uncomfortable and/or just not ok with their personal space being invaded...

[Dappleganger]

41. They should charge by weight

I mentioned this in another post. Have a certain weight allowed for the passenger and luggage combined (carry-ons, specifically). Anything substantially more receives a surcharge, anything substantially less receives another discount (if you're paying full price for a ticket these days, shame on you!).

I am sick of being bashed in the legs and head by out of control carry-ons.

[dmallind]

4. Apparently obesity has various definitions

At about 290 and an inch or two under 6' I certainly qualify (in fact I believe technically I qualify as morbidly obese on those silly BMI scales), and yet I have no problem fitting into a seat without an extender (albeit just on some of the tiny puddle jumpers)let alone with one, and putting the seat divider down.

However I sure as hell extend into the next seat, as any adult male who is not anorexic or a strange shrimp-like candidate for a Charles Atlas "before" ad does. Why? Because the average seat width on a United coach flight is 18". Given that the width of the shoulders and arms is roughly equal on most people to the depth of the torso, doubling this would indicate nobody with more than a 36" chest - an extremely unusual and small size for men - can fit in those seats without spilling over. Given my 54" chest I spill over on both sides considerably - but my ass and belly are just fine, prodigiously large though at least the latter is.

So what IS the criteria? It's certainly not news that there are fatter people than myself, and some certainly won't fit into these rules, but the suggested root problem - assuring comfort for co-passengers by eliminating overspill - is not dependent on belly or ass size which is what they are measuring, but maximum width. And applying that criterion would mean everybody but 5'5" tall marathon runners would have to pay double.

[Statistical]

15. You wouldn't be charged.

Requirements is can you fit in seat w/ both arm rest down and seat belt fastened w/ 1 or less extenders.

If you can then you won't be charged for second seat.

Simple.

Likely many people who are obese and "spill over" the seat will still NOT be charged given the very minimal requirements.

This will simply stop the most extreme cases.

[dmallind]

36. I understand that. Not the point though

The point is they are charging extra based on the wrong criteria. I guarantee you I project into the next seat more than quite a few people who will have to pay extra. They are charging for belly fat not for space taken up. The reason for this is they know they can't really charge for space taken up in the next seat (which would be based on max width) because then the vast majority of men and at least a goodly portion of women would be charged for an extra seat - as it would apply to anyone more than 18" wide.

They are simply seeking a politically acceptable minority to overcharge to try to maximize revenue. Fat folk are one of the few demographics who will find few defenders and not cause an outrage.

[dustbunnie]

80. As a small person who flies a lot, I'm going to disagree a little.

Shoulder width of course is a problem and people sometimes have to jostle a bit with their neighbors till they find the right "spot." This doesn't interfere with a seatmate's ability to breathe or maneuver in their own space. Long legs can be an issue and some jostling occurs as well. But again, does not interfere with the neighbor's maneuverability in the torso area. The problem with enormous amounts of belly fat is that the individual cannot keep their arms folded over in their own seat area. Tush fat may spill over, but as long as the armrest can be lowered, it's kept in check. If the armrest can't be lowered, the person will literally spill over on top of another person. I can tell you that in practical terms that amounts to having a complete stranger basically press and rub up against one breast which is highly distressing (and very painful) for the average woman, interferes with the person's ability to breathe normally, and also amounts to having one leg pressed under another's, top to toe. That's what the difference is. In a younger person that might amount to anxiety and discomfort, but it's much harder on the elderly frail traveler.

Probably the most democratic ideal would be to simply tack on $50 to everyone's ticket and give the extra seat free. That way NO one is discriminated against, and would ensure everyone's comfort level as much as possible. It's no more fair to discriminate against the smaller person than the large one.

[Goblinmonger]

19. I hear ya

I am 5'11 and 285. I come from hearty slavic stock and have a 50" inch chest. I am trying to lose even more weight, but I guarantee you, my chest won't get to less than 48"--the rib cage just ain't that small.

I don't spill over into the other seat and probably won't be charged under this plan, but don't think it is a picnic for me either. When I am seated next to someone I don't know, I do my best to not have my shoulders invade their space. I am usually contorted and uncomfortable the whole flight. Let's not assume that every larger person on these flights is just comfortably doing what they want with no regard to anyone else.

[dmallind]

37. I guarantee you you do spill over.

Nobody can contort themselves to that degree - especially barrel-built people like us.

Try this - screw up your shoulders as small as you can as if you're in a plane seat. Then have someone pencil in the width of your shoulders at the widest point. Then go to seatguru.com and find United seat widths - which in coach vary from 17-18" usually.

If you can contort a 50" chest and bulky frame into being 18" wide or less a)let me know how and b) let me manage your circus career and I guarantee we'll both be rich enough to fly in the big seats!

I am sure your gut and buttocks don't spill over - but that's the point - that's why it's the wrong criteria that are being applied here.

I understand your point - I always get an aisle seat and lean over to minimize intrusion - even though that means my shoulders get bumped by every cart and bathroom-bound fellow passenger. When I was in excellent shape my chest was 52 and my width was probably about the same as it is now (I have lost some muscle mass no doubt). Not at all fat - but still took up way more than one seat because they are made for the smallest possible segment and do not reflect even normal body types, let alone heavily built ones, fat or no.

[SmileyRose]

73. My brother is a thin but broad shouldered man who spills over the seat

His butt is firmly planted in his own seat - it's the chest, shoulders and arms that crowd the neighbors on buses, planes and small cars.

The airlines could solve all of these problems by acknowledging Americans, with excellent nutrition, grow bigger than our counterparts in other countries and even some who are far from obese simply need wider seats.

Likewise, with an aging population, with more disposable income that previous generations to fly about during retirement - and arthritic everything, not to mention the leg swelling from congestive heart failure, blood clot risks, blah blah - people need room to wiggle about on longer flights.

Stop packing people in like sardines - charge more if you have to to make the plane profitable - accept the fact not everyone should be on a plane all the time and put us less affluent folks on high speed rail and decent buses instead.

[Kali]

94. exactly

if the excuse - er, I mean "concern" is comfort for all passengers, then get bigger seats and fewer rows!

[CTyankee]

5. This is a tricky situation. I have been on flights where the middle passenger

had to take another seat further back in the plane than she had wanted to because an obese person sat down next to her (this was the second stop) and it was simply impossible for the person in the middle. I think she's the one who got shafted here.

Surely, there is a way somehow. Maybe having a few wider seats available that obese people can get. I don't know if the airlines would consider that OK.

[rcrush]

34. They should have moved her to first class.

[CTyankee]

43. This was Southwest. They have no first class section. And seating is a system

whereby the first people to go online and check in the day before the flight get to stand in the "A" line and are first to board. If you check in later you get "B" or "C" and all are numbered. So the woman who got shafted had played by the rules. The obese person who essentially got both seats got on the plane at its next stop (this was a 3 stop flight from Hartford CT to Burbank CA).

[Cronus Protagonist]

64. I'd pay extra to get an extra wide seat!

They're all too small for me, and it's not because of obesity, it's because my shoulders are three feet (approx) across and the normal seats are only about 2 feet 6 across (approx). I'd feel a lot more comfortable in a larger seat.

[Hekate]

69. It's perfectly reasonable for the airlines to charge you extra, too....

There's nothing like a one-size-fits-all policy to really make everyone feel they are being treated fairly, in my opinion.

Hekate

[cherish44]

8. I'd love it if they'd widen all airline seats.

I always feel like a sardine in a can when I fly

[dysfunctional press]

10. and i'd love it if they'd let me fly for free.

but since it's a business- neither is likely to happen.

[Statistical]

11. Sure they can but that would widen the price of a ticket.

Most places are 6 across. So if you widened the seats so it was 5 across the plane would hold 16% less passengers.

Would you mind a 16% bump in ticket price?

Me personally I fly a lot for my job so I would LOVE paying 16% more and having plane only be 5 seats across.
Not sure everyone would though.

[wickerwoman]

54. You don't have to widen every row

Just have two rows in the back where they have two seats instead of three on the wings (since it's unlikely to have more than eight morbidly obese people on the same flight).

A Boeing 777 currently has 436 seats. With this modification it would have 432. That would result in a .01% price increase.

[Statistical]

59. 35% of the country is now obese.

That wasn't the point though. I would gladly pay 16% more for 16% more space.

Then again most people likely don't.

[Hekate]

70. Tsk. You clearly have not gotten the memo: The problem is ALL about fat people...

... taking too much space, and has nothing to do with the airlines not giving any normal adult enough space in the first place.

Seriesly, get with the program.

Hekate

[Egalitariat]

9. Makes sense to me. Subway charges for 2 sandwiches when one is not enough

and that practice is generally not frowned upon.

[Demobrat]

14. I won't fly anymore unless absolutely necessary

because of a few miserable experiences where I had to share my seat with a huge person. The last one hadn't bathed and that was when I said never again. I guess I'm not the only one. The airlines wouldn't be doing this unless they were losing business.

[MajorChode]

23. I heard that

I have my own aircraft. No more sardine cans for me.

[scheming daemons]

16. I've got no problem with this

They are selling space. If you take up two slots of "space", you pay twice.


If you take up three slots of space, you pay thrice.




No problem at all with this.

[Vickers]

17. "Unable to properly buckle the seatbelt using a single seatbelt extender "

That seems pretty fair.

I was on a transatlantic flight with a very large person...9 hours of leaning to one side and getting red wine sloshed on me ever 30 minutes or so.

[BlooInBloo]

18. As long as f=ma, I don't have a big problem with this....

So long as it's not used as a shitty excuse to shakedown any random mildy-overweight people.

[Hekate]

71. Because it always works so well, we need a one-size-fits-all policy in this matter too. nt

[MajorChode]

21. There shouldn't be seats at all

They should just send everyone across the scales and charge them by weight. When the maximum gross takeoff weight for the aircraft has been reached, you simply march everyone into a huge cargo hold, cinch a big ass strap around all of them, and away you go. It wouldn't be all that much different than the subways in Tokyo and it would be a helluva lot cheaper, which is the primary goal anyway.

[FudaFuda]

39. wtf>? lol that's some crazy shit.

I'm laughing, but damn have you ever tried flying non-stop to Japan or Australia??? 16 to 20 nonstop hours or so in the air - your cattle car idea would be a bit too reminiscent of the ride to Aushwitz for frequent international flyers.

[MajorChode]

56. I flown all over the world

I think it's doable. Think of all the thrombosis issues that would be solved. I mean there's definitely some details that need to be worked out. You might have to rotate the crowd around so everyone has a chance to use the blue room on long flights, but you certainly can't argue about the economics of it. I mean think about how much extra space and weight you'd save once the seats were removed. I mean, shit it's not that much different than the way the military travels. If it's not too good for them, it's certainly not too good for Joe Sixpack.

The way people are packed in like sardines it wouldn't make that much difference, really. It's mostly just a psychological difference if anything. I think once people got used to the idea and how much money they would really save, I don't think you'd have too many objections. And it really only makes perfect sense. Aircraft have specific weight limits. So why not simply charge people by the pound? We already do that for cargo and baggage, so what's the difference other than some silly humanistic reasoning, right? We need to throw that yoke off and get with the program here. Air transportation is just about getting you from point A to point B in the fastest and most efficient way possible. If you aren't down with that philosophy, you really should consider using another mode of transportation.

[Scout]

22. didn't we just have a flame-bait thread on this article? n/t

[moez]

27. It's flame-bait to cite a current news link?

It's fine if you don't agree with it, Scout; but, that doesn't mean it's not a topic worth discussing...

[Scout]

46. there's nothing left to discuss on this topic ... this exact article

was discussed to death in LBN.

and this topic IS flame bait...

[kctim]

25. If you need two seats, you pay for two seats

Don't want to pay for two seats? Jog to where you need to go. You probably need the exercise anyways.

[NeedleCast]

26. Wont be long before this is abused like crazy

Female? Over 130 pounds? You're obese, please purchase a 2nd seat.
Male? Over 150 pounds? You're obses, please purchase a 2nd seat.

[anonymous171]

28. Good. nt

[TTUBatfan2008]

29. Interestingly enough...

I flew last Sunday on a Southwest flight and the guy sitting next to me was big enough that he needed an extender. He could barely put the armrest down and even then he was bulging over into the next seat. Luckily for me I was sitting in the window seat and he was in the aisle seat, so we had a an empty seat between us. The flight felt pretty full to me, but everyone who came in was terrified to sit in that middle seat and I don't blame them. Once the flight took off he put the armrest up to allow his bulge a little more freedom.

BTW I'm a bit overweight at 5 foot 10 and 180-185 pounds. It's mostly just a product of my own laziness rather than overeating. I easily fit into airline seats though.

[nonconformist]

31. Good. I was made absolutely miserable during a 4 hour+ flight to Vegas

a few years ago when I was crammed between two obese people. They had to put the armrests up on either side, it was miserable. Since then, I rarely fly for fear it will happen again.

[jazzjunkysue]

33. Someone tried that with me and I defended my turf. The armrest goes down. Period.

When you're trapped in a seat and can't get away, it's unlawful inprisonment, to be underneath oversized people.

[Demobrat]

50. Same here.

For an entire 4 hour flight the guy next to me kept trying to inch the armrest up and I kept slamming it down. I knew it had to be uncomfortable for him, because he was slopping over it, and I did feel bad, but - I DO NOT want close physical contact with strangers and there's no way I'm spending 4 hours smashed up against one. It was bad enough his shoulder kept hitting me. There was no way his thighs were touching mine.

[walldude]

35. I fly all the time.. would never fly United

worst airline there is. Worst service, worst for being late and the worst, smallest, most uncomfortable seats.

I fly Frontier whenever possible. More roomy, comfortable seats, much better service and almost always on time.

[Union Yes]

40. At one time we boycotted.....

[Dappleganger]

42. United sucks anyway.

Never fly w/them unless somebody else booked the ticket.

I'll stick to Southwest's cattle calls whenever possible. :D

[dustbunnie]

44. That's fine. Are you going to boycott the other 7 airlines who also embrace this policy.

Airlines rent seats. There is no standing room, and you can't bring a sleeping bag and camp out in the aisles, so the argument that airlines fly "people" is nonsense. And if you agree to rent such a seat at the fixed price that all the other renters are paying, wouldn't you expect to get what you pay for?

If you slap down money to rent a sailboat for the day and they bring you to a canoe, would you be happy with this? Why should thinner people give up half or a third of the seat they've paid for to a stranger, and who would be so selfish as to expect strangers to give up both dignity and comfort so they can steal/enjoy it themselves?

The reason this policy has come into play is because smaller people are tired of being slowly pressed to death, having their intimate parts rubbed by strangers, and potentially being injured (like that woman a few years ago who was rushed to the hospital immediately upon landing after being squashed by an obese person). They started complaining in droves. This is the solution airlines came up with. If obese people are unhappy with it, why not start another campaign, write emails, get on the phone, and lobby for bigger seats?

[Egalitariat]

77. You could always request the seat beside the fat guy -- since you're so open minded and all***

nm

[spanone]

51. do us skinnies get a rebate?

[Demobrat]

53. No but

you get the entire seat you paid for.

[aaaaaa5a]

52. I think it is a good policy. What gives fat people the right to invade space I paid for! nt

[wickerwoman]

58. The fact that they're human beings and you can't pay for space?

You paid for passage, not space. Unless the plane had to land prematurely because of the fat person, you got what you paid for.

If the airline crammed you next to the fat person to accomplish the passage you paid for, blame the damn airline. It's not like 17" is in any way a standard human size. And as soon as they get away with this, what's to stop them from changing the seats to 14" and calling you too fat to fly in one seat?

You're acting like the fat person loved being crammed up next to you. Somehow I doubt it.

Sometimes the person standing next to you at the bus stop wants a smoke or a baby needs to scream or a poor person smells bad. When did society become so self-absorbed and intolerant that they very idea that any could invade *your* invisible idiosyncratic happiness sphere with their sounds, smells, ugliness or girth could provoke such nasty self-righteousness?

Yes, it's an inconvenience. Life is full of little inconveniences. Travel a bit more and you might get some more perspective on how incredibly petty some of them are.

In China, it's not uncommon for people to take 40 hour bus rides home for the holidays. The buses are always overbooked so latecomers have to squat in the aisles for a day and a half. And there's one toilet on the bus for about a hundred people. And it never works. Most of them would probably not have a huge problem flying next to a fat person for four hours. I know I wouldn't after some of the trips I've taken.

Tolerance and humanity, isn't that what being a liberal is all about?

[Egalitariat]

76. You pay for a seat. The ticket tells you which seat is yours. If you don't get the whole thing

because the guy next to you is taking all of his seat plus some of yours, then you've been had.

[Codeine]

86. I most certainly pay for a space.

The ticket tells me which one I've paid for. I can pay more for a bigger space (First Class, as if I could even dream of that) or less for a smaller one. I expect basic the human decency from my fellow passengers to stay within their own space.

[varkam]

88. +A trillion

When did society become so self-absorbed and intolerant that they very idea that any could invade *your* invisible idiosyncratic happiness sphere with their sounds, smells, ugliness or girth could provoke such nasty self-righteousness?

:fistbump:

[dustbunnie]

91. Actually it's a terrible comparison. Makes no sense either. n/t

[varkam]

93. So says the self-righteous. eom

[dustbunnie]

97. lol, who's self-righteous? A bus stop is not a plane flying through the air.

Not even remotely the same situation. You can walk away from a bus stop. That's just for starters.

[varkam]

100. I never even commented on that comparison.

In fact, if you go back to my post, you will see the portion of the post that I was referring to as I directly quoted it.

[MrPerson]

57. What's the Problem? - They pay for twice as much food.

(runs from room)

[dembotoz]

60. so you get on the plane and then they say they want to charge you double????

i don't fucking think so


you wants fights
i mean knock down drag out fights

woo hoo come and get it.


saw on a msn that unitied is one of the companies expected to file for bk

no wonder

[Statistical]

89. Post 9/11 starting a fist fight with airline crew is generally NOT a good way to start your vacation

[MadBadger]

62. I dont like what happens if no unused seats are available.

That just seems really unfair of the airline.

[DeschutesRiver]

65. It is probably due to the airlines insane business modeling

You know, takes X filled seats, with Y number of filled flights per day to be able to offer a certain price per ticket.

I say go back to the old ways - make those seats a more normal size (I am not talking super sized for super sized folk, but not some ridiculous 18" or whatever) and then up the ticket price accordingly. I know they were costing cutting to reduce the price for the flying public when they shrank the seats, but I know when I flew years ago, I could tell the difference - tiny, puny seats and I am just 5'7" and 130 at the time.

So give people what they want, which is going back to a more normal seat size and just charge what you have to to achieve that. Sure, some people won't be able to afford flying then, but really either that way or the "charge double" way, someone will no longer be flying to get somewhere.

[Hekate]

72. I keep saying that and nobody listens, so I finally got the message: It's ALL about the fatness...

That's the trouble with being able to remember when the shift to extremely narrow seats took place: those with no memory just think you're either not keeping up with the times or you're just making excuses. Plus it's all about the fatness.

I give up.

Hekate

[DeschutesRiver]

87. Well, at least we still have our memories:)

Last time I flew was in 2000; same for dh, who is 6'2" and 240 pounds. He couldn't extend his legs, and by that I mean his knees hit the back of the seat in front of him, and to put his feet flat on the floor, he had to turn his legs sideways. Yeah, right into my space, which was already crowded by the upper half of his boddy because he was begging to use my arm rest. He is a tall fit guy, but he didn't even come close to fitting. It was an overseas flight, Delta as I recall, and he was one cramped puppy for hours.

We used to fly a fair amount for fun and business over the last 30+ years. However, we've never flown commercially again and unless something changes for the better, probably won't again. From everything I've heard, it just has gone even further down hill re service and even the basics of comfort are denied. Because we quit flying before 9/11, I haven't even experienced the thrill of a TSA pat down.

Maybe it has become the new normal for people. But I don't think I am missing out on anything.

[Hekate]

95. My family is scattered over the continent, too far to drive or I wouldn't bother flying either...

Unfortunately my mom and dad decided to move from California to Utah over 15 years ago, and due to their health issues both my sister (Massachusetts) and I (SoCal) ended up flying to Utah numerous times until they both passed away. One episode with TSA was so bad that I checked into Amtrak -- I actually prefer taking the train anyway along the California coast instead of driving if I have to go to San Diego or San Francisco, so I figured there must be something good to Salt Lake City. Ha! By air, Santa Barbara to Salt Lake City takes about half a day even if you can't get a direct flight. A direct flight takes only a couple of hours. The train, though, goes from SB to Sacramento, dumps you off overnight, and then proceeds the next day to SLC -- it takes two full days and a night and costs more than the average air fare. The train is not a good option for responding to emergencies, at the very least.

Your 6'2" hubby would be comfy on the train, but SOL on an airplane unless he paid to sit in first class. And if you've read a lot of the comments in this thread, you can tell that his inability to fit into the space dictated by the airlines would get him nothing but hostility from other passengers.

You're right that this has become the new normal and that the basics of comfort are being denied to passengers. Worse, passengers are left blaming each other for their discomfort rather than the airlines. Worse yet, some of the comforts we are being denied are actually related to our health and safety.

Hekate

[Hekate]

66. I'll take their concerns more seriously when they charge more for passengers over 6 ft tall...

Passengers over 6 feet tall should be required to purchase the seat in front of them, no ifs ands or buts. None of this reasonable accommodation crap for the overly tall -- their legs and knees are encroaching on MY space when I have to sit in front of them.

I'm series, you morans.

Hekate

[Hekate]

67. Airlines should stop serving liquids too. That would take care of the "Excuse me I need to get out

... of my seat" problem once and for all.

Right?

Hekate

[ProdigalJunkMail]

68. a single seatbelt extender

on most planes i have been on would have easily accommodated a 60"+ waistline...

sP

[Canuckistanian]

81. This is why Limbaugh bought his own jet. n/t

[MazeRat7]

83. I agree....

this is a very simple exercise in physics and economics. If you fall outside the first standard deviation for weight, you basically count as more than one person where cargo capacity is concerned. A plane can only put so much weight in the air and rates, per passenger, are set assuming that the majority of passengers fall within the first std deviation of weight for an average adult. If you fall outside that range you are basically getting to fly your excess weight for free.

Bottom line, pay for what you use. That being said, the fairest scale would be rates based only on weight and destination. Kids would fly cheaper than adults, average weight adults would pay the median rate, and larger adults would pay more since it cost more to fly them.

Peace,
MZr7

[varkam]

85. Ew! Fat people are scary and gross!

This thread is fucking ridiculous

:crazy:

[Seldona]

92. I know I will do what I can to avoid this company from now on.

Going after overweight people is bs. There are many reasons people can be obese, even though I don't think it should matter anyway. They should accommodate ALL their passengers, period.

Good luck with this surviving the courts. If anyone needs me to testify how you can medically put on weight, and lose it again when 'cured,' send me a pm. I am at my high school weight now, but got sick and put on steroids, and put on over 100 pounds like that.

What about people in chronic pain who can't exercise?

Anyone thinking all obese people are lazy over-eaters should be ashamed of their ignorance imo.

[npk]

98. Since this is America and the land of the opportunistic

How long will it be before some greedy CEO of a major American airliner comes along and makes the seats on their airplanes smaller so that just the overweight take up two seats, and ergo, are forced to pay for two fares?

Just asking. :shrug:

[Mr. Hyde]

99. Considering the incidence of obesity in America, it looks like the loss of business this will invite

will "outweigh" anything gained by charging a few fat people double. What's more, the average football player or basketball player takes up my space when they sit next to me too and it pisses me off just as much as the guy or gal with a pot belly. Airlines probably shouldn't bother asking for any bailouts in the futture either. My guess is, there will be many loud voices telling congress to let them crash and burn.