GOP is finally figuring out something Goldwater told them almost 30 years ago

[MajorChode]

Steve Schmidt, McCain Campaign Manager: Religion Could Kill The GOP
Speaking publicly for one of the first times since the end of the presidential campaign, John McCain's campaign manager Steve Schmidt painted a dire portrait of the state of the Republican Party, arguing that the GOP has largely been co-opted by its religious elements.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/17/steve-schmidt-mccain-camp_n_188354.html

Barry Goldwater, 1981:
There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.'

Thankfully those fuckers never learn and will never learn.

[OHdem10]

1. Politics is absolutely dependent on Compromise in order to achieve results

Faith often demands NO Compromise.

Makes for "oil and water"

[MajorChode]

3. Here's the problem as I see it...

The vast majority of people who participate in organized religion want someone to tell them what to believe. Pastors often describe themselves as shepherds leading a flock, and that's actually a very descriptive way to look at it. As such, when their pastor tells them to vote a certain way or do a certain thing, quite often that's exactly what they do. As the saying goes, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and many of these pastors develop the opinion that they are always right because they have hundreds (and sometimes thousands) of people telling them so on a regular basis.

Imagine a politician leading his constituency in almost absolute lock step. That's what you have with some of these pastors and as such they can demand an enormous amount of influence for only a relatively small segment of the population.

Goldwater was spot on. He was a drunk and crazy as a shithouse rat, but if you're willing to weed through a mountain of garbage you can find a few good points he made. I suspect they were written in one of his few lucid moments.

[OmahaBlueDog]

7. I'll take it a step further

I think many (NOT ALL) gravitate to religon because it answers the big, imponderable questions and excuses their wrongdoings and foibles.

Who created the world? God.
What happens when I die? I believe in God, so I go to heaven.
What happens to the people who don't believe what you believe? They go to Hell.
Should I feel bad because I just screwed that family out of $2,500 bucks on that 92 Cavalier I just sold them? No, Jesus loves me and forgives me.

Since you don't have to think about any tough philosophical questions (because the Bible/Torah/Quoran has an answer for everything), you're free to concentrate on making money or figuring out how you'll pay for that trip to Vegas or buy that 5 bedroom home with the 3 car garage.

OTOH, I think there are still a few that see the Judeo-Christian themes of mercy and love for the poor as driving forces for good.

[OmahaBlueDog]

2. Barry is a holdover from a bygone day

You could disagree with him 100%, but come away from listening to him with a sense of respect.

Also, Barry was (at least for a time) pro-choice.

[MajorChode]

4. There was a lot of times I had no respect for him

Supporting Raygun was one of those times.

He was also a proponent of gays in the military, BTW.

[bklyncowgirl]

9. Today's Republicans would drive Barry Goldwater out of their party

The old fashioned deficit hawk, social moderate Republican that I could (almost) vote for has gone the way of the wooley mammoth.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

5. I wasn't around or knew much about him when he was a prominent politician

I heard he was kind of nutty back in the 1960's when running for President against Johnson. But towards the end of his life, I was impressed by his vocal support for ending the ban on gays in the military back when that "debate" was ongoing. Also, I agree with the above comments 100%. He's the kind of Republican that we really need more in Congress (but sadly may not get for awhile if not longer) who genuinely cares about the country and willing to work for its betterment (even if might not always agree on the way to get there). R.I.P. Mr. Goldwater.

[Juche]

6. Thankfully those fuckers never learn and will never learn.

That sums my views up pretty well. Thank god these people are so dogmatic and thick headed that they can't see the cliff they are starting to drive off. If they think it is bad now, wait another 10 years and see what happens as the GOP becomes more radical and more irrelevant.

The only scary part is if the GOP manages to keep the religious right, but trick the public into thinking they are moderates. Most people barely pay attention to politics anyway (something like 40% of the public couldn't recognize a photo of Cheney when he was VP) so they could probably pull it off.

[MajorChode]

8. The GOP will eventually see a renaissance

They are still as batshit crazy as they were in '94. The only difference is today most people have figured out they are full of shit just like in the early 70's. The problem is the public has short memories.

The biggest problem the GOP has is they can't succeed with or without the social conservatives and their ship is sunk so long as people remember how completely fucked up the social conservatives are. I'm not sure how long that will last.

[B Calm]

10. I keep getting this religious e-mails designed to inflame the Right

Wing Christian Taliban against the government. They can easily be dis-proven by going to snopes. So you send the snopes link back to them and they still choose to stay ignorant. Here's the one I got three times this week. http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/capital.asp

[MajorChode]

11. Fact checking would go against their very nature

They have been indoctrinated to accept what is told to them as the gospel. Anyone who contradicts that word must be in the employ of the devil. Facts and reality are tools of the devil.

[madfloridian]

12. That's why our party should be careful in trying to find "common ground"

with these groups.

Too many do not want to compromise at all.

[KittyWampus]

13. Religion as it applies to the Republican party can ONLY be understood as an artificial

and ultimately secular experience.

The Right actively cultivated an entire group of leaders who use the trappings and rhetoric of religion for purely political aims.

[MajorChode]

14. I see it as the other way around

The Christian political movement actively cultivated an entire group of political leaders. Now perhaps they did so for purely selfish economic reasons, but you have to consider who is working whom. I don't see the GOP dictating much to the Christian Right and I see a lot going the other way.

[Laelth]

15. Wow. It's astounding how awful the GOP has become.

At one time, some of them were actually sane (if still mostly evil).

:dem:

-Laelth

[MajorChode]

16. Calling Goldwater the voice of sanity is worthy of a good chuckle

He believed in little green men from outer space (perhaps even to a greater degree than Raygun). Johnson's campaign slogan against him was, "In your guts, you know he's nuts".

But you are right. Compared to Goldwater they have only gotten far worse.

[Laelth]

17. Or, "in your heart, you know he might."

... with a picture of a mushroom cloud in the background. Some of the best political advertising ever.

And, yes. They have gotten worse over the years.

:dem:

-Laelth