Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Democrats continue to use the right wing terminology when it comes to women's rights.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 08:09 PM
Original message
Democrats continue to use the right wing terminology when it comes to women's rights.
They seem unaware they are doing it. The religious right has been militant about abortion, contraception, and having the government control those things by laws. Our party has gone along with those tactics, gradually giving in bits and pieces of the rights of women.

The use of the words safe, legal, and rare...nothing wrong with the way Clinton phrased it. But they have since gone beyond it. Our party has gone along with banning third term abortions, even to the point of jailing doctors who do them. Considering that most of those done third term are for the life or health of the mother or other critical health concerns...that's putting doctors and women at the mercy of the government when a life could be at stake.

The religious right has no intention to compromise with us on that issue. They want it banned.

I read the DU post today by MajorChode in which they quoted Barry Goldwater from 1981.

Barry Goldwater, 1981:
There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.'


I remember when Howard Dean in 2003 said he was tired of listening to fundamentalist preachers. Then one of his first acts as DNC chairman was to invite the pro-life group, Democrats for Life, to the DNC to present their abortion reduction plan..the 95/10 Initiative.

He was wrong. It sent the message that the views of the religious right meant more than our views.

We should not be giving in to the use of the words "abortion reduction", because then we come across the problem of who gets to decide the amount and the method. Think the right will let us decide. No, I don't think so.

Their plan:

The 95-10 Initiative

A comprehensive plan that will reduce the number of abortions by 95% in the next 10 years by promoting abstinence, personal responsibility, adoptions and support for women and families who are facing unplanned pregnancy. The 95-10 Initiative seeks to reduce the number of abortions in America through Federal, state and local efforts as well as support and encouragement to volunteers and dedicated people on the front lines helping pregnant women. Much attention has been given to ending abortion or keeping it legal. We believe that we must do more to reduce the abortion rate by helping and supporting pregnant women.


My question. Why do they get to decide? They are a religious pro-life group. Why not leave it up to the women and their doctors? That's too simple a solution, I guess.

In a great post at Religion Dispatches it is pointed out that all of these plans simply show the view of women that is from past centuries. It treats them as though they are unable to make their life decisions.

The post points out how difficult it is to make "common ground" with extremists.

The lack of a sensible legislative agenda on contraception, economic support for women who wish to continue pregnancies, and adoption reform is disturbing, but most disturbing is the fifth-century religious view of women that permeates the movement. Women are presented as victims, unable to make choices about what is best when deciding to be sexual and when they are pregnant. In the truly progressive faith community, we hold that women have a right as moral agents to decide what is best when they face unintended pregnancy, and we believe that women are not by and large victims—they are the authors of their lives. Given the history of religious oppression, a movement that speaks or advocates for women’s concerns needs to advocate for women as moral adults.

Religious leaders who respect women’s consciences, their dignity, and their human rights will find it hard to make common cause with a religious movement that does not lift up those values. We suggest that proponents of abortion reduction seeking common ground go back to the drawing board. They might actually try to talk to those in the religious community who are strongly pro-choice.


Our party leaders have basically taken womens' choice off the table. In 2005 Chuck Schumer made a shocking statement.

"So I called up Governor...our number one target is Rick Santorum...let him go back to wherever he lives, Maryland, you know you heard about it, he is Pennsylvania but he tried to get exempt from the school tax there cause he lives in Maryland even though he is a registered citizen of Pennsylvania. In any case I called up the Governor of Pennsylvania, Governor Rendell, I said who is the best candidate to beat Santorum. He there is only one person who could beat him but he won't run and B you wouldn't want him to. I said why wouldn't we want him to run, he said he's pro-life. He's a deeply religious Catholic man. Bob Casey."

"I said, those days are over Ed. Yes I'm pro-choice, but we need the best candidate. We can't insist that every democrat check off 18 different issues before they get (unintelligible) we could do that, we can't anymore.
And so, we persuaded, Harry using his very...Harry has amazing insights into people...and we together persuaded Bob Casey to run. A poll yesterday...national...all the polls they did...Casey 51 Santorum 40. You should see Santorum nervous and walkin on the floor."


Chuck Schumer said that the party could no longer be bothered with worrying about womens' rights...he trivialized the issue.

To make matters worse, Harry Reid made a really pathetic statement about groups which support womens' rights. He compared our pro-choice activists to activist groups which work to get highways built. He marginalized womens' rights.

Reid disparages pro-choice activists

Senator Reid said that he welcomed the new "emphasis on recognizing the diversity of the party." He added, "We have had a lot of pro-life Democrats, but the pro-choice folk haven't reached out to them and haven't protected them."

He acknowledged some complaints from abortion rights groups about the party's shifting rhetoric. "They have to keep their folks geared up, just like people who work for more highways," Mr. Reid said. "That is what they do, just like the pro-life groups."


He said pro-choice groups don't reach out to the pro-life groups. Our Senate leader took the side of the right wing.

Trust the party leaders to keep womens' rights in focus? Not me. I don't.

The scary part is that the House Democratic leaders recruited 12 anti-choice candidates to run in 2008.

Oh, yeah, the party leaders reached out.....to the other side. They left us behind.

...."The anti-abortion pitch is standard fare in Alabama’s Second Congressional District, a deeply conservative area that President Bush carried twice and that has been represented in Washington by a Republican for four decades. What makes the spot unusual is that Mr. Bright is a Democrat. And that the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, which has been pushing hard for Mr. Bright’s election, paid for it. In fact, Mr. Bright is one of a dozen anti-abortion Democratic challengers the party has recruited to run for the House this year and has aggressively supported with millions of dollars and other resources in culturally conservative districts long unfriendly to the party.

That is the highest number of anti-abortion candidates the party has fielded in recent memory to run either for open seats or against Republican challengers, according to party strategists and a leading anti-abortion organization.


The tendency to use the words "abortion reduction" and "common ground" worry me. It shows that many of our Democrats do not understand that the goal of the militant religious right (not speaking of moderates here) is to ban abortions. Many want to ban the morning after pill as causing abortion. Some want to ban any birth control pill because it thwarts God's will.

The punitive tones about abortion and the doctors who perform them has worked. And I fear our party is using it. The Faith-based council that will advise Obama on women's matters is heavily weighed down with anti-choice people. I have seen from 2 to 6 people on the 25 member council named as pro-choice, but some of them are really more into the "abortion reduction" theme. That is way too few pro-choice and far too many anti-choice on the council that will advise a Democratic president.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. I was dismayed when we were told women should make "prayerful" decisions about abortion.
K/R your thread and thoughts.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Thanks, I think women are expendable right now in the name of the common good.
And that's odd cause we are not a minority. We just allow them to do it to us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
monmouth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
3. I am pro-choice, I am a woman. I see nothing however that indicates
any rights for the "father" of the un-born. Do they have rights? I'm just asking..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Not many while the baby requires the mother's body to live.
Once born, it's a different story.

But the father has no rights whatsoever to the mother's body, and since the fetus is still a part of the mother's body, then no, he has no rights.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Their rights should be commensurate with the effort they put into the carrying and birth of the
child.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. The father's rights / choice ends....
...when he chooses to impregnate a woman (or to take the risk of doing so). He can choose not to. That is his right. Once he's made that choice though - either way - he's done. The rest is up to the woman, since she's the one who must carry and bear the child. It's HER body. He's done at that point. He's made his choice. After that, it's up to her.

Just my .02
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
4. "haven't protected them"...
Protected them (the anti-choicers) from what, exactly? From being wrong? From treating women as chattel? From attempting to institute their personal moral code as universal?

I absolutely think that this country can find a common ground which in no way impedes a woman's right to make this very important and very personal decision for herself. It involves tossing the idiotic "abstinence only" regime and putting in its place actual education. It involves making contraception better, cheaper, and easier to use, and teaching our kids to use it if they become sexually active. It involves reducing the cost and difficulty of adoptions and offering better health care and financial assistance to women who would like to have the baby but are concerned about the money. It involves the sort of things that Democrats ought to stand for - not caving into the anti-woman anti-choice zealots and calling it finding common ground.

Compromise in this case is not meeting somewhere between the two sides. One side is right, one side is wrong. Compromise can only happen by persuading those who are wrong that they are wrong, and that acting toward offering women more choices and autonomy across the board will actually result in fewer abortions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Why haven't the "Anti-Choice" protected the "Pro-Choice".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. That's the question, indeed
I have no problem with those candidates and politicians who are personally opposed to abortion - so long as they understand that their personal choice (or their preferred choice if they're male) is their own, and never to be imposed on someone else. Personally, abortion would not be my choice, either.

But I get to make that choice for exactly one person. As does every other woman.

If those rights were clearly understood to be a line that could not, under any circumstances, be crossed, then we could start moving forward with a shared goal of making abortions less necessary. But while that basic right continues to be under fire... there's not much to talk about with people who think I'm something less than a full person.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. When the center starts telling the extremes to knock it off, pay attention
Same old, same old. The two sides don't want to give an inch because the other wants a mile and is simply lying in wait to get it. Of course, these are not equivilent sides. The pro-choice side's extreme (other than the occasional whack job) is indeed "safe and rare" while the anti-choice is "never (unless possibly your white daughter got raped by a black guy).

From a political standpoint, I think that most Democrats see no harm in not taking a hard line. Push comes to shove, for the right wing extreme to get its way, they have to agree to prosecute women who have or attempt abortions. They are not going to publicly endorse that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. If you want to achieve even a moderate victory in this area, you must fight for the most extreme
position...or you will most definitely end up with nothing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Yet it is certainly out of vogue to be seen as anything
but "centrist" in the party these days. The left wing of the party, let alone those further left than the party, are all sneered at as "extremists" and we are assured that, when the extremists are complaining, "we must be doing something right."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. Great post - any you put it so clearly!
I am sorry to say I have not been paying much attention to women's issues, even though they are extremely important to me. My only excuse - there are so many other issues that we have to keep track of, it is hard to follow them all.

I guess it is time for me to get off my butt and get out there to keep my elected people on their toes! Thanks!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. So many other issues to keep an eye on...
Easy for this to slip by because of the way the right wing has phrased it for years. The Democrats could fix it, but they would have to stand up firmly and say it is between the women and the doctor.

I doubt they will do that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I've never been one to write or call my representatives, but I will have to start
I was really hoping that the work that was done by so many in this past election would have shown our party how we all feel about basic human rights. But we seem to be losing ground, on women's issues, gay and lesbian rights, wiretapping, so many things.

What I do see more than ever is how all these rights are connected - take them away from one group and that just makes it easier to withdraw them from the next. We need to stop allowing our opposition to splinter us into little groups with our narrow issues and make it clear they are all the same - our rights.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Good points.
We have let the religious right control the message in these areas by invoking morality in ways which imply only they are moral. So far from the truth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
36. Maybe we should start a "sic" campaign.
From Webster's Dictionary:

"This word is sometimes inserted in a quotation , to call attention to the fact that some remarkable or inaccurate expression, misspelling, or the like, is literally reproduced."

"Pro-life (sic)" would be a good way to draw attention to the irony and throw their hypocrisy back in their faces. (And it might hold down attacks at DU, too, as a bonus! Assuming all those who post here understand the use of that term.)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
polmaven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Good suggestion....thank you
Sometimes I feel "left out" of these calls to action, coming from what is arguably one of the most progressive states in the country. I mean, as of January, President, Governor, 139 of 160 State Reps, 34 of 40 State Senators, both U.S. Senators and all 10 of our U.S Congressmen/woman are Democrats.

I work hard during election season, but there isn't much to complain about these days! - Well...my own state rep is somewhat of a DINO, but her last opponent came within 225 votes of winning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. K&R nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
17. Great post -- !!! Much needed--!!! And, Hillary unfortunately was big on "common ground" ---
Edited on Sun Apr-19-09 01:06 PM by defendandprotect
I didn't hear it as she ran for President . . .

but recall it around time of her becoming a Senator.

The scary part is that the House Democratic leaders recruited 12 anti-choice candidates to run in 2008.

Actually, I didn't know that about Howard Dean --- love him just a bit less now!!

There are a huge number of Catholics in Congress and I think now a "pro-life" Democratic group!

Not small numbers.

My feeling is that I won't vote for any Catholic for office, any longer!

Recovering Catholic, myself!



And just a PS on these thoughts -- particularly in response to the Greider article

on getting tough with Democrats -- that, unfortunately, the women's groups and pro-choice

groups also don't get "tough" with Democrats -- rather they turn to contributors for more

money for them!!! And all of these liberal grous seem themselves as indivudals . . .

the liberal organizations simply have never come together to give Democrats a good shaking!!!







Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
18. I see the left slipping a lot when it comes to people and choices
The rw justifies their prohibitionists desires on saving our souls, the lw justifies theirs by telling me they are saving my life and money.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
19. Politicians are always ready to sell your rights cheaply if it serves their election/re-election.
Of course, we can expect Party bosses, to tell you that it's "for the greater good", when they do so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
20. I don't know anybody who's PRO ABORTION! I hate the RW Christian Taliban
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. K&R!, baby K&R! It is always
( has been at least siince the sixties)anathema to term women in terms of the present. It is always 'be grateful this isn't the middle ages and we'll throw ya a bone fro time to time, something that should have happened thirty years ago, to keep ya uppity asses quiet.'

We need the party to include us all. To borrow the language of the conservative on this matter (or any others dealing with equality) is to be defeated out the gate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
23. Democrats, like our society, use a lot of sexist language and references. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Towlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
24. Oops! Look at the pot calling the kettle black!
Then one of his first acts as DNC chairman was to invite the pro-life group, Democrats for Life...

You complain that "Democrats continue to use the right wing terminology when it comes to women's rights", yet you yourself say "pro-life" instead of "anti-abortion".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HarveyDarkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Why "pro-life"?
To me it's anti-choice and pro-choice, period

They're only "pro-life" if it's unborn

If born you're SOL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. I bet you feel so good having found something in my terminology.
I can just see you jumping for joy.

What can I say? That's how things are here now. Just look for something, anything, to put someone down.

Cute.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Towlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. No better or worse than you felt when you found something in other Democrat's terminology.
Can't you see that you're doing exactly what you're criticizing other Democrats for doing? Just like your original post, your response to me is thick with irony. You're the one who is "just looking for something, anything, to put someone down", and if your sarcastic comment of "cute" applies to anyone, it applies equally to you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. A very quick good bye to you.
There's enough nastiness here now without having see a post that is just over wrought. Bye.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. We Democrats with two neurons firing understand the utter hypocrisy behind ...
... the right wing's use of the term "pro-life." Yet it is a term in wide use, and anyone who follows MadFloridian's frequent and well-researched posts would never dream of criticizing her use of the term "pro-life" because it is so commonly used across the whole political spectrum.

Let me quote the Bible for you: "They pick at the gnat and swallow the camel." We need to direct our attention to the spirit of the message, not the "gnatty" details, and work together to bring America back to a degree of sanity.

I daresay that no one at DU devotes more personal time to enlightening us all (and superbly) than MadFloridian!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. "They pick at the gnat and swallow the camel."
Thank you so much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Towlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. I'm a mad Floridian too.
And one thing that really angers me is when someone is too wrapped up in her own popularity to gracefully admit that she made a mistake.

No, the term "pro-life" is NOT an integral and accepted part of our language, whether it's in "wide use" or not. In fact, it's a perfect example of the sort of right wing terminology that you criticize in your article and which neither of us likes. It's a particularly irritating, dishonest, and deceptive term because it implies that anyone who isn't "pro-life" must therefore be "pro-death". It's an unethical but efficient way of incorporating the argumentative fallacy of Begging the Question into a label for a cause, so that anyone who uses the term automatically appears to endorse the cause.

I'm sure your use of the term was accidental, but it should be corrected because it's embarrassingly inappropriate. If you plan to publish that essay elsewhere, you would be well-advised to polish it up a bit first by replacing "pro-life" with either "anti-abortion" or perhaps "anti-choice", else you risk outright ridicule rather than the constructive criticism that I'm offering.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shimmergal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
25. On language...
We've let them control the vocabulary from the beginning. Why do we let them call themselves
"pro-life" when by almost every measure they've not? They're "illegalizers", at least anyone who wants legal restrictions against abortions brought back is, and this needs to be emphasized in EVERYTHING we write or say.

Anyone who's only opposed to abortion for themselves deserves a better term. But as things stand now in public discourse, there's no way to mark out the border between the two.

As for "support for women and families who are facing unplanned pregnancies" -- it's a great goal, but I wonder how many women's rights groups even realize what's involved. Can we promise a scared young woman who'd really rather NOT have an abortion, that she'll get support for the child even up to the admittedly skimpy amount that children get from social security if a parent dies? If we can't do that much (and I haven't seen any mechanisms suggested to make it viable): quite naturally any choice she makes is going to be skewed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
26. This says it all: "The Faith-based council that will advise Obama on women's matters ..."
Women are citizens of this country, and we, theoretically, enjoy the blessings of liberty bestowed by the Creator. Women have had to fight for recognition as full citizens for the whole time the country has been in existence. This is a patronizing and outrageous step in the wrong direction on the part of Obama.

Now someone will step up and write a cute piece, admonishing us all to give the man a chance because he's only been in office for a short time, and we shouldn't be having childish tantrums over not getting what we *want*!

If you're on a trip, driving to get from Point A to Point B, and you take a wrong turn and are headed way out of your way, to Point C, then complaints are in order. I've just been watching "Sicko" again. Michael Moore reminds us in that film that the French aren't shy about hitting the streets and reminding their government that it serves at the pleasure of the people.

If a sitting President packs an advisory panel with members who will "advise" him in the direction he wants to go, anyway, then it seems rather a sham.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. It's deplorable that even Democrats see sense....
in bending the knee to religion, looking for "liberal" preachers to give them cred. This country is fairly sodomized by religion.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
puebloknot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Religion creates "destructive factionalism."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 04:51 PM
Response to Original message
30. Thanks again Madflo. you are spot on. AGAIN.
I don't hang here much anymore because I am too dishartened and it seems few care about anything that matters to me anymore but kudos to you for your courage!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. It is disheartening.
Some things are not about party right now, and these rights once gone won't be back.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Richard D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
31. We should even strongly consider the use of the term . . .
"pro-life". If we're not pro life does that mean we're pro-death?
I never was comfortable with that term. It really should be pro-choice and anti-choice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #31
39. Absolutely
Using their terminology cedes them their (weak) argument.

If you want to be very neutral, you can say anti-abortion and pro-choice - which accurately reflects the two sides' positions.

But I'm with you: anti-choice, which I think is really what it's about.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
40. Well, I guess I forget to put "quotes" around "pro-life"....geez
You would think the fact that I took time to put ideas and thoughts together instead of just going with sensationalist subject lines.....oh well.

To those who are worried....I goofed. I forgot and used pro-life without the quotes which indicates my contempt for that term.

:shrug:

My humblest apologies.

Next time I will use all caps in the subject line, lots of exclamation points, and not much else.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-19-09 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
42. Like there's something wrong with reducing the number of abortions?
Edited on Sun Apr-19-09 08:45 PM by Gman
This OP is messed up on so many levels I can't even begin to start counting how many levels.

--------------on edit----------------

starting the clock on how long this post is replaced with "Deleted" and "Deleted Name"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Get up to speed, not deleted. Educate yourself. You need it. Language matters. So does jurisdiction.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
44. One of the first things Bill Clinton did upon election was restore the right of federally employed
women to have their health insurance (just like the health insurance of privately employed women) cover abortions.

Of course one of the first things Bush did was un-restore that right.

If Obama has restored the right to federally employed woman, I have not read one word about it, and I'm curious to know if anyone else knows.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
46. Error: you can only recommend threads which were started in the past 24 hours
:yourock: thank you
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
47. They adopted the Reich Wing Hate Meme "Partial Birth Abortion"
:puke:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC