why the Susan Boyle jokes upset me

[Haole Girl]

I guess what disappoints me most about people targeting and making a joke out of Susan Boyle is because that was supposed to be the whole point of her success. Someone who was once ridiculed and laughed at suddenly gaining respect. I guess it just does not happen-- not in reality. Either we are born a beautiful person with the traits society admires or we are a joke. That is the cold and harsh reality of it. We are a superficial, artificial, image-driven society. Those of us who don't meet the expectations are thought less of... even in the face of success.

Am I making too much of the jokes? Perhaps. If I am, it's only because I hoped the Susan Boyle story would have a happy ending. I had hoped she had truly beaten the odds. But I don't think she has. It's the same ole story it's always been... the beautiful, thin, attractive people are worshiped as goddesses. Those who don't meet expectations are discarded as a joke.

I think that just about says what I'm feeling at the moment... an almost indescribable disappointment.

[alcibiades_mystery]

1. Yeesh

:eyes:

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Haole Girl]

3. You are probably right

I need a life.

[anigbrowl]

20. He is

There's lots and lots of 'OMG Susan Boyle = awesome' threads so it's a law of internet physics that there's going to be a backlash of some kind. Don't take it so personally and you'll be happier.

[Nipper1959]

63. You're right to point out the inherent meanness of people

It's okay to make jokes about someone if they don't "look right". It pisses me off when these tv host start crying when they hear her sing - are they crying because they feel guilty about the thoughts they had about her before she started to sing? As if having a talent makes her have feelings important enough not to be nasty to her but those that look like her without the talent are fair game.

[Captain Hilts]

6. Pee in someone else's pool. nt

[DeepBlueC]

13. irony much?

:shrug:

[nini]

22. and yet you take the time to post this same sentiment in just about all of them

:eyes:

Just hide the fucking things if you're so outraged.

[AwakeAtLast]

24. You didn't have to announce you were hiding the thread

and to make a spectacle while doing it just makes the OP's point.

[L0oniX]

32. The spectacle is the more than 30 ops in GD about said subject.

It's abuse of the forum.

[AwakeAtLast]

44. Then alert the mods or e-mail the Admins

That's their job.

Calling it abuse is a little exaggerated, don't you think? No one is making you read them. I certainly haven't read them all, but you don't see me bashing another DUer for speaking their mind.

[Kajsa]

25. She's not able to voice her opinion

without the pejorative putdowns
and insinuations that she "doesn't
have a life"?

Do people do that to you when you
voice your opinion?

This goes for anyone here that's
doing that.

WTH?

[nini]

26. LOL

I saw the same thing. :-)

[Kajsa]

31. Hi Nini,

Thanks!

:) :hi:

[nini]

57. Hey there

are you resting during the Chargers off season? :-)

:hi:

[Kajsa]

62. Yep, I've been following the Lakers

and the Ducks now.

It looks like the Lakers have a decent chance
this year.

The Ducks?- we shall see.

:hi:

[nini]

69. excellent

:-)

go Lakers!

[leftstreet]

4. A three legged dog walks into a bar, "I'm lookin fer the man who shot my Pa!"

[Cali_Democrat]

5. Another one sucked in by Simon Cowell

:silly:

[Bluzmann57]

7. Ok, it's time to admit it.

I'm not a "hip" kind of guy. I work, shower, eat, watch either Countdown, sports, or internet and then I sleep. So who is Susan Boyle and why should I care? Did she win American Idol or something? And if so, once again, why should I care?

[Haole Girl]

9. Just on the remote possibility you really need to know...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxPZh4AnWyk

[Bluzmann57]

23. Ok no jokes here

She is a good singer, even though it's not the type of music I prefer. She should try being a Blues belter because we don't care anything about a person's so called physical deficiencies, just whether or not they have talent. And quite frankly, as I said earlier, there is no reason I should even care about anything this woman does. She has her life, I have mine. I'm fat and bald but have no singing talent. She has singing talent and fuck that Cowell guy.
An example of a nice looking woman who has little talent is Stevie Nicks. So Ms. Boyle should take heart. If Nicks can make it, Boyle should too.

[Haole Girl]

34. Check out this link if you get a chance

She can sing the blues. :-) http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/2009/04/16/exclusive-susan-boyle-s-first-ever-song-release-revealed-listen-to-it-here-86908-21283564/

[Midlodemocrat]

68. One man's ceiling is another man's floor. I think Stevie Nicks is awesome.

[TexasObserver]

8. What jokes? A Brazilian threads on it, but no jokes.

[BlooInBloo]

10. It's the predictable result of overexposure in a short period of time.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

11. Okay, I give up. Which jokes are you referring to? nt

[Haole Girl]

12. Take your pick...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=105

[mitchum]

15. Those "jokes" are satirizing the public hysteria, not Boyle

Poor Jonathan Swift and Lenny Bruce would be tarred and feathered today

[Cali_Democrat]

16. What?

You don't like the joke where someone said Susan Boyle would pose nude for Playboy, but in the braille edition?

I thought it was hilarious.

[d_b]

33. lol

[Sarah Ibarruri]

60. Oh ok I found one. Tx.

Well, it's not nice to make fun of people's looks.

However, the focus on beauty is as insulting as a joke on somebody's looks. So is the fact that those who have money are constantly beautifying themselves even when they don't need it, as it puts them on a much higher level of beauty than others.

I think it's important to focus on the insanity regarding beauty.

[paulsby]

14. waaaaaaahhh!

first of all, you are creating this false idea that beautiful thin people are never exposed to ridicule.

lol.

get real.

do they have it easier? generally, yes. but there are plenty of stereotypes and jokes about thin and beautiful people.

ever see zoolander?

not to mention prejudices against those of us who are more muscular (i am a strength athlete.) . "dumb jocks" etc.

susan boyle willingly put herself in the public eye. she has received metric assloads of praise and recognition. for pete's sake, she was on frigging oprah.

but yes, she is going to get some slings and arrows too. boofucking hoo!

[poverlay]

27. Are you for real? Zoolander? Oh the poor beautiful and strong people have it just as hard as

the weak and ugly people? That's hilarious. Absolutely hilarious!

[paulsby]

36. you clearly have an issue with reading comprehension

in my very post, i said that thin/beautiful people generally have it easier.

it does not therefore follow that they don't also suffer stereotypes, jokes, derisive comments, etc.stereotypes like them being vacuous, shallow, stupid, etc. are common

one example. i work as a cop. one of my friends, a dispatcher happens to be a "thin, beautiful" person. almost immediately upon starting her work, she got tons of crap from coworkers, one of whom even called her a "skinny bitch" largely because of how she LOOKS. they happen to be um... not exactly thin. her thinness OFFENDED them

and like i said, this woman has gotten TONS of praise (myself included), adulatioin, recognition, etc.

but yes, SOME people say mean things.

boofucking hoo!

[poverlay]

42. EVERYBODY has experienced mean people and their stereotypes, etc.. To compare that to

how unattractive people are treated compared to the beautiful people is ludicrous. I've been watching this between several different friends of mine, beautiful and ugly, for years and the benefits the beautiful don't even realize they're receiving are amazing.

Everyone comes in for their share of derision. The beautiful people can complain about it all they like, but to compare it to what "ugly" people, or even simply not-beautiful people, get as standard treatment by comparison is, like I said, hilarious.

Oh, and thank you for showing me such respect in your disagreement.

[Kajsa]

28. A muscular man is going to

get ridiculed as much as a plain looking,
middle aged women.

Right!

[paulsby]

39. wonderful strawman

except i didn't say that. i said the EXACT opposite.

try some reading comprehension.

i said they generally have it EASIER.

duh.

we still suffer stereotypes too.

boofucking hoo!

[Kajsa]

43. You're big on that reading

comprehension thing, aren't you?

They have it easier, yet there are

" prejudices against those of us who are more muscular "
( comprehension good enough for you here?)

Does this even compare to the ridicule she's getting?

[paulsby]

53. you'd have to ask a muscular PUBLIC FIGURE

she is a public figure. i am (pretty much) not.

back in the bad ole days (see the movie pumping iron), muscular types (bbers etc.) WERE treated very much as freaks.

that is still true. politics aside, i have immense respect for ahnold because he DID overcome immense stereotypes and crap from all sorts of people to become the icon he became. he broke down doors. prior to him, the public's idea of a muscular action figure was a bruce willis type, who isn't even in the same league of muscularity. there was IMMENSE prejudice against muscularity and there still is, just not nearly as bad.

i have a workout DVD from markus ruhl where people literally stop, stare, point, and make comments about his physique (and not at all nice some of them) while he is frigging shopping for groceries.

and iirc it was john stossel of all people who did an expose years ago where he sent in attractive people and not-as-attractive people for job interviews and the attractive ones ceteris paribus were CLEARLY treated better, and given offers that the unattrative didn't get.

that's why i said that GENERALLY speaking, attractive people have it easier.

i think it's somewhat of a u-shaped response curve in that the very very attractive (Shades of zoolander) do in many ways have it more difficult than the attractive in that it's almost impossible to be taken seriously.

the ultimate reality is that people tend to criticize, ridicule, fear, mock, scorn, etc. that which is DIFFERENT. it makes them uncomfortable.

ask any bber.

in the case at hand, she has gotten immense amounts of praise, adulation, oprahification, etc. and god forbid a few snide remarks, etc.

that's why i said boofucking hoo. the response has been OVERWHELMINGLY positive, but it has not been UNIFORMLY positive.

fwiw, i see plenty of people here constantly rag on american idol, miley cyrus, etc. and largely because they are pretty, and thus devoid of substance or credibility in the eyes of the oh so sophisticated.

[CTyankee]

70. She has some brain damage whichhappened when she was born. I think it is ill mannered

to mock people with disabilities. Besides being unkind, it is bad karma as anyone can become disabled in the blink of an eye.

This nice lady needs some people around her to protect her now that her parents are dead. I wish her well.

[Name removed]

Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. No, Susan has won

Those who would tease and ridicule only show their pettiness. Susan and her talent has raised her above them. She will go on to a life where she can share her gifts. Those who tease and ridicule live in a poisonous atmosphere of their own making.

[Haole Girl]

18. I hope you are right

But at the moment I can't help feeling like nothing has really changed for her. She is just the butt of a joke.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. The victory aways comes from within

She knows who she truly is. And because of that, she has won.

[Mari333]

30. yes. nt

[ChazII]

55. Right on! She is the victor in every sense of the word.

She know her self worth and has a terrific sense of humor. Her beauty is from within and the beasts are those in the audience and in the cyber world.

My son is very similar to Quasimodo - Disney version. We have been told his face causes people to lose their appetite. As an infant, toddler and elementary school student he was called freak and monster. On more than one occasion he was told, "Halloween is over -- take off the mask." Ironically, one Halloween (just like Disney's Hunchback) he was told, "Great masss...." and then the speaker realized my son was NOT wearing a mask.

One of my favorite bitter-sweet, yet laughable moments happened when he was in the 3rd grade. We had been at a 3 day basketball camp. Each day the camp was 12 hours long. On day 3 at lunch time one of the kids came up and asked me,
"Is it true?"
"Is what true?" I responded/
"Is it true, that people die when he breathes on them?"

Luckily for me, I was exhausted because I just burst out laughing. I responded, "Do I look dead? Does his team look dead? Does his 3-on-3 look dead or the coaches?"
Of course, when I got home that night and was in bed, I burst into tears and cried myself to sleep.

The point of all of this is that I have walked somewhat in Susan's shoes. I at least know her journey and that of her mom from the emotional side. As the saying goes, "That which does not kill me, makes me stronger." Susan and my son are strong and they are beautiful. Life gave them lemons and they have made lemonade to quote the cliché.

Susan's story points out that while discrimination has ended for some, those who are the facially different, no matter what their skin color may be, will always be fair game when it comes to ridicule.

[northernlights]

45. no she's not, Haole Girl

For some small-minded, mean-spirited and envious pond scum she's a joke.

But the vast majority of people support her after hearing her sing. I think she will do very well. I don't think any of the people who are dissing her now are likely to show up at a public performance and sabotage it (as was done to me, once, to make me the butt of a community choruses joke). They are welcome to not buy her album(s) if and when one or more comes out. I suspect enough people *will* buy that she'll do just fine financially as well.

She's proven she's not a one-trick pony or a one-hit wonder. Her bluesy torch song did that, and probably the Titanic song (I couldn't download it, so don't know how she sang it) as well.

Personally, I think after hearing her "Cry Me a River" that she belongs in the blues. She's got the technique and the musical sophistication it takes. The show/movie/pop tunes are almost too easy...

[Kajsa]

21. Thank you, Ayeshahaqqiqa.

Once again, you make a very good point and do
so with class and no snark or ridicule.

:D :thumbsup:

[Midlodemocrat]

65. The best part of the video was the look on that santimonious twit

Simon's face.

I don't watch AI because I can't stomach the way he treats people, but that was pure gold.

[Kajsa]

29. I agree, Haole Girl.

But I'm not surprised.

[Haole Girl]

35. Thanks

I think I should log off now & chill. :hi:

[Kajsa]

37. Have a nice cool drink

and relax.

:hi:

[JohnnyLib2]

38. K & R.

and kudos for swimming upstream.

[Reterr]

40. I have not made any jokes about Boyle herself

Only the people elevating this whole reality show ruckus to something sublime and beautiful.

If we are going to over-analyze the Boyle thing (i.e. see it as something other than a clever marketing stunt by that British show), then my analysis is this:
Only someone who bought into that whole worldview in the first place could be so bowled over by it.
And therein lies something that I think is fundamentally wrong with our society. Apparently it is ok to like this person now that some random people watching some dumb reality show said it is ok.

I have worked with so many women scientists, engineers and MDs who are certainly not anywhere near the societal ideal of beauty and yet nobody would ever have dream of having anything but respect for these women. I think you have to first buy into the beauty myth to find any of this as revealing and amazing as some seem to think of it.

Way I look at it, what if she hadn't had an awesome voice? Would it be ok to make fun of her then?
The message I am getting here is that "Oh look she had an amazing voice after all."

BS...Amazing voice or not, no one should allow people like Simon Cowell or the kind of brain-dead, beauty-obsessed idiots that watch reality shows, define them. There are lots of people like Susan Boyle out there who don't have amazing voices and they are fine too, whether some DUMB reality show (God I despise reality shows) validated them or not.

You watch too much tv, you are eventually going to buy into that dumbass worldview and then turn on it when the teevee tells you to. It is so fucking stupid...
They set up a standard and then they destroy it. Whatever they do, they'll make money and people will blindly go along. I wish more people would think for themselves.

[murdoch]

41. respectability

You talk about gaining respect and society.

All societies are based on the methods of labor and its social relations. Our society, and most of the world nowadays, is based on capitalist social relations.

Even China, after Deng Xiaoping, is capitalist. Look at the little girl who sang "Ode to the Motherland" at the Olympics. The one who sang it was not ugly, but a normal little girl with a good voice. The girl who lip synced it was a very pretty little girl whose voice was not that good. When all this came out it was a minor scandal. Forty years ago, teenagers in China were arresting their school's principal during the Cultural Revolution, now China's culture has been Americanized, Milli Vannilli style.

It is impossible for Susan Boyle to be respected in the hegemony of corporate media. There she is nothing but a joke and a freak. It is a world of The Real OC, Dawson's Creek, couples like Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie and so forth. In this world, the joke is the average working class person with their normal problems. It is a giant propaganda system, the purpose of which is to belittle the average person, even if they have some fantastic skill like a beautiful voice.

So why seek respect from it, why seek entry into this over-society? I spoke of the cultural revolution - when the left gained power in China they sought to overturn the old culture. Almost everyone admits they went overboard, but some people, including myself, think that SOME of that centuries old junk hanging on in China needed to be gotten rid of. While this was going on in China, a "counter-culture" of peace, love and hippies evolved in the US. This counter-culture continued into the 1970s and 1980s in the punk aesthetic as well (with the hippie types still around and going to Rainbow Gatherings and the like).

Trying to get to the top of the heap in the rat race is like being the mouse who runs to the cheese the fastest. Even if you win, you're still a lab rat being manipulated by the scientists, and the corporation that employs the scientists. There is a counter-culture, of Rainbow Gatherings, of DIY Punk rock shows and the like. Some punk rockers were the ugliest guys you ever saw - but they sure could play a good set.

[dustbunnie]

46. The cult worship is disturbing. More disturbing than any joke...

Which seem to me, the few that I've seen, aimed at the people who have projected their own personal life beefs and disappointments at this simple country woman. Someone actually said, "it's been a big week for 'us.'" Good LORD!!! She's not the Jeanne D'Arc of the women's movement. Nor is she some divine Celtic goddess, sent to avenge the middle-aged plain people by shining her beacon of all that is goodness and light. And the comments about pretty people are just repulsive.

There are millions of people who don't look like Barbie, and yet have managed to build successful happy lives. If you think everyone who isn't the perfect physical specimen is treated as a joke, then you are highly mistaken. Maybe too addicted to scripted reality shows.


They haven't even gotten to the semi-finals yet. Oh brother!

[Reterr]

51. ***Maybe too addicted to scripted reality shows.***

That is exactly it! I think most of these Boyle worshipers live in that bizarro teevee world and then get belligerent with those who don't get it.

This is an awesome post. Thank you for it. I think I will go read a book now :crazy:. DU has some seriously out of touch people posting here.

[dustbunnie]

54. Lol, I'm about to do same!

See you when the dust settles. :)

[Joe Chi Minh]

47. I related a cartoon about her in the Humor folder, but the joke was

actually about another celebrity who is more than capable of looking after herself.

[tkmorris]

48. I agree with you, absolutely

One other thing disturbs me a bit about all this hubbub. She has gotten so MUCH attention, so quickly, that it has the feel of an internet meme to it. Nothing wrong with that of course, except that kind of popularity has always been fleeting. I had hoped she be more than a flash in the pan, she certainly seems capable, but too much too fast and the public will burn out on it.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

52. That is my concern

Susan deserves more than a week of fame.

[KoKo]

61. I think they want to burn her up...trash her..the Media. Her pastor says she has some

learning difficulties. I worry she's being taken advantage of for a "Stunt." We all know what the Media can do to someone innocent like her. Media even burns out those who have experience and a good head on their shoulders.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

49. Yes.

Thanks.

[Mr. Ected]

50. Our Irreverence About Anything Sweet and Special Disturbs Me Greatly

But the best we can do is act honorably and teach that trait to our children.

There are a LOT of unhappy souls out there who cannot allow others a moment of happiness.

[bigwillq]

56. That is what happens when the media

forces something or someone down our throats 24/7. Or when DU forces it down our throats 24/7.

It happens with many people, and topics. Even to people that society generally perceives as young, thin and attractive.

While I think the Boyle story is a beautiful one, I am so sick of the story from the media to DU. It's just overkill now. And I fear that poor woman will be exploited (she might already be).

[timtom]

58. I've seen a lot of carping and complaining

but I haven't seen any jokes whatsoever (thank God). Color me extremely lucky.

The sound of her voice still lingers as something precious and beautiful.

[NRaleighLiberal]

59. The jokes should not be about her. The joke is on the lemmings who

obsess and follow...no different than the UK obsession with the Royal family. I've not watch the video, I don't care to....

[TZ]

64. I think more people are making fun of the HYPE around her

Then the person herself..Me..I think its a wonderful story, but I think waaay too much is being made of it. I also think its a bit nauseating because so many people think its a "good story" because she's not conventionally pretty. I think the fact that so many people seem to be making so much of that is a sad commentary on our society.

[cwydro]

66. Well, the Susan Boyle craziness yesterday

was in no way meant as making fun of her.

At least from my perspective, it wasn't.

It was making fun of DU. Period.

[Waiting For Everyman]

67. Nobody can diminish her, or her obvious gift.

She seemed to already know that, in her audition tape.