Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

CIA Ordered Unnecessary Torture; They Knew There Was No Info Left to Get

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 07:55 AM
Original message
CIA Ordered Unnecessary Torture; They Knew There Was No Info Left to Get
Source: USA Today

WASHINGTON (AP) — Senior CIA officials ordered that waterboarding and other brutal tactics be used on a suspected terrorist even though interrogators believed he had already said all he knew, a newspaper reported Saturday.

The rough interrogation of al-Qaeda prisoner Abu Zubaydah included confining him in boxes and slamming him against the wall, and was prompted by a highly inflated assessment of his importance, The New York Times reported, citing former intelligence officials and a newly released legal memorandum.

One former intelligence official with direct knowledge of the case said Zubaydah already had provided valuable information under less severe treatment, and the harsh tactics did not result in a breakthrough. Rather, his captors suffered great distress witnessing his torment, the official said.

"Seeing these depths of human misery and degradation has a traumatic effect," the official told the newspaper.

(snip)

A footnote to another memo described a rift between the officers questioning Zubaydah at a secret CIA prison in Thailand, who thought he was being compliant, and their bosses at headquarters, who believed he was withholding information.

A legal opinion dated Aug. 1, 2002, shows that the U.S. misunderstood the importance of Zubaydah from the beginning. Zubaydah was captured in Pakistan in 2002 after a gunfight with Pakistani officers backed by CIA and FBI officers. The Bush administration portrayed him as an al-Qaeda leader, and the memo described him as a "senior lieutenant" to Osama bin Laden.

Zubaydah made his most important revelation early, naming Khalid Sheikh Mohammed as the main organizer of the Sept. 11, 2001 plot. His interrogators surmised he was not a leader, but a training camp personnel clerk who arranged false documents and travel for the jihadists.

CIA headquarters insisted he must know more and ordered repeated waterboarding — a harsh tactic that simulates drowning — against Zubaydah.

"He pleaded for his life," one of the former intelligence officials told the Times. "But he gave up no new information. He had no more information to give."


http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-04-18-torture_N.htm

______________________________________________________________________

Is this the opening through which the DoJ can or will proceed? President Obama has said no prosecutions for acts done 'in good faith' with the 'legal' declarations from Gonzo's bunch. This clearly was not in good faith and was solely to hurt, humiliate and torture for torture's sake.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 07:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. great point
This one will not be over for a long, long time, despite wishes to "move on."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
2. Reminds Me Of Running Out Of "Targets Of Opportunity"
In the first weeks of the Iraq invasion, Donald von Rumsfeldt held one of his dog & pony pressers and actually lamented that the Air Force was running out of "targets of opportunity"...places to drop bombs. I'm sure he issued orders to tell them to keep dropping...he didn't care where...just make more nice videos of missiles going down elevator shafts...make good teevee.

The Obama administration is dancing on a head of a pin...attempting to justify some torture. There IS no justification!! After all these years, we still have nothing but speculation about how effective torture was...and few, if any, tangible results. IMHO, we got more useful intel prior to 2000...stopping plots to disrupt Millenium celebrations, blowing up the pope's plane and so on...sure didn't need to torture to foil those plots. Seems all we got after 9/11 were lies and ramped up threats...many based on false tortured "confessions".

The more we learn...and there is more to come forward...the harder it will be for the Administration to continue to parse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. The words we are hearing from the Obama Administration could
end up painting themselves into a corner where the parsing over 'good faith' torture and torture will become absurd.

They have made too many declarative statements, they should have given themselves more room to work as more information is revealed. Of course they should have come out and said, before the release of anything that they would prosecute when evidence of torture was found.

I hope they don't stand in the way of this much longer. I don't really understand their objective. Do they want Congress to take it up? Or do they want to sweep it under the rug and let the criminals run free?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. It's A "Political Calculation"
I've attempted to justify other actions the President has done and can understand some of the rationales, but not in this case. I just can't emphasize it enough that there is NO justification for torture. None. You are very correct that the Obama administration has painted itself in a corner that only will get smaller as more information comes forward. He's playing the middle of the road...and the old saying is the only people who go there always get run over.

It appears that this move is purely political...and what we should always expect from Politicians. In this case it's appeasing the CIA and DOD (trying to avoid the alienation of the Clinton years) and to placate the blue dogs and "moderate" conservatives. The concern is that "looking backwards" would break down whatever majority block President Obama has or may have in moving forward other legislation. I don't buy it.

Cheers...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
azul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Wasn't a torture confession used as evidence to invade Iraq?
And congress and the media bought it, no questions asked? False confessions as justification for war?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. Very misleading - AZ no mere "personnel clerk." He worked w/CIA to train 6 of the 9/11 hijackers.
who Zubaydeh recruited as part of a CIA-sponsored operation against the Russians in Chechnya and Bosnia in the late 1990s. Zubaydeh was later central to planning the 9/11 and Cole attacks, attending a major Al Qaeda planning summit in Kuala Lumpur which was videotaped by the CIA and "a half-dozen" allied agencies, according to testimony by George Tenet. After that meeting, the head of the CIA Directors Counter-Terrorism Center allowed two of the primary 9/11 hijackers into the US, one of whom had been trained by AZ, and ordered a FBI liason officer to withhold a warning cable that had been drafted that would have alerted the Bureau's anti-terrorism squad.

There is a concerted effort going on to diminish AZs importance and misportray him as nothing more than a crazy gofer. Nothing could be further from the facts.

AZ indeed told the CIA everything he knew. Almost immediately after his capture, he gave up the names and telephone numbers of three Saudi Sheikhs and the Pakistani Air Marshal who had been the sponsors of the al Qaeda operations he headed - all three suffered suspicious deaths within months. All that waterboarding and sensory "driving" torture months later was to scramble and erase a wealth of details in AZ's memory, including his role (perhaps unwitting) as part of a high-risk, long-term CIA operation. See, http://journals.democraticunderground.com/leveymg/337



THE CIA OFFICER WHO OVERSAW TORTURE: Cofer Black
Posted by leveymg in General Discussion
Sun Dec 23rd 2007, 01:44 PM
Cofer Black Headed Unit Alleged to Torture Detainees and Withhold Pre-9/11 Warning Memo to FBI


In the Osama bin Laden story, a former CIA official with the unlikely name “J. Cofer Black” is the character who seems to pop up in the most interesting places.

Indeed, Mr. Black is the one person at CIA who admits to having dealt with bin Laden, face-to-face, after the Soviets departed Afghanistan in the early 1990s.

During the last few years of his CIA career, Cofer Black had an extraordinarily focused, unusual assignment. Until he retired from CIA in late 2002, Cofer Black was one of the few officers within the clandestine service with a real subject matter expertise. Black’s specialty was Usama bin Laden, “UBL”, as he’s known in U.S. intelligence circles.

From 1999 until May 2002, Black was in charge of the CIA Counter-Terrorism Center, at which some historic decisions and catastrophic failures took place.

While Chief of Station in Sudan in the early 1990s, Black oversaw CIA contact with UBL, at the time that UBL was a major organizer of Mujahaddin veterans fighting in Bosnia; al Qaeda flowed in a straight line through Cofer Black to 9/11 and to the present day privatization of intelligence as Vice Chairman of Blackwater, LLC, and as Mitt Romney’s advisor on national security.

***

Most career officers in the CIA clandestine division are generalists who move from station to station, assigned to fill slots in countries where their foreign languages and backgrounds are needed. Not Cofer Black. He was a specialist.

Before his reassignment, announced in a back-page Washington Post article on May 17, 2002, Black, Chief of the CIA Counter-Terrorism Center (CTC), was in charge of renditions and the interrogation of detainees captured and held abroad. That puts Black at the immediate head of the chain-of-command for operational decisions made up until that date in the torture of CIA prisoners held at “black sites” around the world.

James Risen writes in his book about the CIA’s counter-terrorism operations, State of War, cited at, http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2007/12/...


The CIA assigned a group of agency officials to try to find alternative prison sites in countries scattered around the world. They were studying, said one CIA source, "how to make people disappear."

There were a number of third world countries, with dubious human rights records, willing to play host. One African country offered the CIA the use of an island in the middle of a large lake, according to CIA sources, and other nations were equally accommodating. Eventually, several CIA prisons were secretly established, including at least two major ones, code-named Bright Lights and Salt Pit. A small group of officials within the CIA's Counterterrorist Center was put in charge of supporting the prisons and managing the interrogations.

SNIP

Bright Light is one of the prisons where top al Qaeda leaders--including Abu Zubaydah and Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the cenral planner of the September 11 attacks--have been held. Bright Light's location is secret, and it has been used for only a handful of the most important al Qaeda detainees. (30)(emphasis added)


Under Cofer Black’s Command

“A small group of officials within the CIA’s Counterterrorist Center was put in charge of supporting the prisons and managing the interrogations.”

By most accounts, Abu Zubaydah was taken into custody in March, 2002 in Pakistan, and after initial U.S. interrogation and treatment for gunshot wounds, sent to a secret CIA torture center in Thailand, where he was waterboarded, in April or May 2002. (FTN. 1) See, e.g., Larry Johnson’s timeline, http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2007/12/10/di... /

If the Johnson timeline is indeed accurate, at the time Abu Zubayda torture was videotaped, Cofer Black was CTC Director, and he shares command responsibility for that action with his CIA superiors right up through McLaughlin and Pavitt to George Tenet and the President.

Nonetheless, the really significant thing about Cofer Black is that he was also in charge of CTC on 01/15/2000 when Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Midhar, the Flt. 77 Pentagon hijackers, entered the U.S. What’s so significant about that? The pair’s entry into the U.S. was noted by CTC after they attended an al-Qaeda planning summit in Kuala Lumur – monitored by the CIA -- where 9/11 and the USS Cole attacks were mapped out in January 5-8. Just so happens, al-Hazmi had earlier trained at Abu Zubayah’s camp in Afghanistan, along with five of the other 9/11 hijackers. There is, indeed, a striking symmetry to this. See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/17/8...

The second al-Qaeda figure tortured at that time, Abd al-Nashiri, also had a role in recruiting and training the 9/11 attack cell, and was the architect of the Cole bombing. These two worked closely with another trainer, Sakkra, who now states that he was a double-agent working for U.S. and Syrian intelligence in organizing al-Hazmi and the others as part of the CIA’s secret war in Chechnya. See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/10/1...

Here’s the kicker. Cofer Black was CIA Chief of Station in Khartoum at the same time bin Laden made his base of operations there. Abu Zubaydah was with bin Laden in Sudan. Black admits he had a confrontation with UBL shortly before they both left Sudan in 1996. Bin Laden went to Afghanistan. Black was later made commander of CIA CTC, where he maintained his focus on UBL.

Bottom-line: Cofer Black was in immediate command of CTC at the time CIA let the Flt. 77 hijackers into the U.S. — and an intentional decision was then made at CTC not to alert the FBI when they came in — and Cofer Black was in immediate command of the CIA unit that tortured those who knew the details of the CIA’s role in training at least six of the 9/11 hijackers. Both of those tortured under Black’s command were waterboarded, which cuts off oxygen to the brain, and can result in long term memory loss. Abu Zubaydah is said to have been driven mad by waterboarding and sensory driving techniques, as was Jose Padilla, who AZ fingered during interrogation. See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/18/1...
Why torture detainees and then “erase” the tapes? In the context of the CIA’s long relationship with Zubaydah and al-Nashiri, this begins to make sense now, doesn’t it?

SNIP


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
7. As in all places, sometimes there are monsters in seats of power
And we seem to have the lion's share lately.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
8. Exactly. When you look at it carefully, Obama's statement only shields
a really thin slice of the people involved - anyone who 'stepped over the line', those who knowingly acted in bad faith, those who ordered the interrogations, those who formulated the policies are ALL still subject to prosecution. It's just a matter of getting the information and laying the groundwork, and not going off half-cocked and screwing it up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-20-09 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Holder is being very intentional and methodical, as far as I can tell.
I am eager for action, but will patiently and forcefully encourage that action.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC