I say we waterboard

[SheilaT]

the sons and fathers and brothers of all those who support waterboarding, and then let them say it's not torture. Same with sleep deprivation, "stress positions", being naked in a cold room, and so on. If it's not actually torture they'll let us know.

[MADem]

1. If you do that, then you become that which you say you despise. NT

[SheilaT]

2. What I'm trying to point

out is that if it's not torture, then they won't think it's torture if applied to those near and dear to them. It's the hypocrisy I'm trying to get at.

[MADem]

3. You become a part of the cycle in that case. You become a hypocrite, too.

You can't "win" by joining in on bad behavior.

[SheilaT]

4. My point is that if it's not torture

we can do it to them and they'll agree it's not torture. I am not a hypocrite, far from it. I'm pointing out the logical absurdity, and suggesting what actually needs to be done to make them understand that it really is torture.

Sort of a version of walking a mile in someone else's shoes.

[MADem]

5. You can't join in to the "logical absurdity" without becoming part of the problem.

That's my point, plainly and simply. You become as bad as they are, by "teaching them a lesson."

It's filed under "Two wrongs don't make a right" I think.

[scheming daemons]

6. Their answer would be:

"If my sons, brothers, and father were part of an organization that murdered 3000 Americans then GO FOR IT!"


I don't agree... I think torture is counterproductive, but that would be their answer.

[SheilaT]

7. But they would agree it's torture,

which is exactly my point. They (the former administration and its apologists) keep on saying that what we did was not torture. I say, if it's not torture let's do it to them. Let them come back from 183 sessions of waterboarding and say they weren't tortured. Have them endure 11 days of sleep deprivation and say it's not torture.

These are people who think that only dark-skinned foreigners are ever part of a plot to murder Americans. Remember Oklahoma City? The lookout was for Muslims, or Muslim-looking men. And even after Timothy McVeigh was caught, no one ever suggested rounded up white boys.

I am trying to get across the point that the only reason they can attempt to claim it's not torture is because they are smugly certain such tactics will not be applied to them. Let them experience the full horror.

At least the Spanish Inquisition honestly admitted that they tortured.