Breaking on Rachel - Holder considering torture investigation

[malaise]

DOJ may probe whether Bush Admin broke the law even though WH discourages it.

I'm lovin it.

[aquart]

1. They bloody well better.

[polichick]

2. Think this is a good cop, bad cop thing?

[shadowknows69]

47. That would be nice

If Obama can't give the word himself then just get out of the way.

[Terry in Austin]

67. That's my take -- let Justice Dept. do law, let White House do leadership

The White House's major role is to provide political leadership, and politicizing the war criminals thing would be a total quagmire -- the legalities would get lost in the partisan shouting. Not only would it bog down, the President would get majorly distracted from a lot of priority stuff that needs doing.

It's simpler than that -- we don't need a lot of investigations and hearings and whatnot, since it's a straightforward matter of laws having been broken. Bringing crooks to justice is a well-defined process, and the Justice Department is there for exactly that purpose.

My sense is that Obama has exactly that in mind. He's a pragmatist. It's so much more pragmatic just to allow the legal technicians to pursue their craft quietly in the background than to drum up a lot of political activity that's not only unnecessary, but potentially a total circus. Worse, it could easily end up with the crooks getting away.

[Xipe Totec]

3. Don't tease me, Bro, Link?

[malaise]

8. Sis thank you

Isikoff was on with the breaking news.

[Xipe Totec]

13. Sorry, Sis!

Didn't bother to gender-check... :evilgrin:

[malaise]

21. Doesn't matter

I'm very happy watching Rachel tonight. :D

[pacalo]

45. Isikoff said that it's the DOJ's place -- not Obama's -- to make the decision.

He said people at the DOJ are probably listening to all these "looking forward" comments by spokesmen of the WH & saying, "It's not his decision to make; decisions to conduct criminal investigations are made by the Justice Dept. based on the facts & the law."

The White House shouldn't be meddling into who is & isn't prosecuted. He said people at DOJ are taking this prosecution issue very seriously & don't think they take their marching orders from the White House.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. So they're playing good cop, bad cop?

Excelcior had this story the other day... hmm same sources?

[malaise]

10. I trust them

By the way apparently Cheney has asked the CIA to declassify more files. I didn't know he was still in power. Men are scared shitless.

I can imagine the phone calls taking place about now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Yeah but think about this, they leaked to both a US source and

a fish wrap in mexico

No, that didn't come from the usual source, aka the AP

I even told my BIL, who does not read Spanish... weird.

To add, same day the National Security Council spokesman had a full hour interview on CNN Spanish... in Spanish

[PM Martin]

5. If someone does not force these thugs to face justice

they will come back again and do even worse.
Nixon was let free, Reagan and Bush's father were let free. If you let Bush Jr. and those around him go free they will come back and do even worse, and what happened over the past eight years is quite horrifically bad.

[stillcool]

6. Don't forget the Warren Commission..

[malaise]

19. Sheldon Whitehouse is on now

on impeaching Bybee. Oh what a night!!!!
There are serious Democrats in 'da house'

[bdamomma]

65. Senator Whitehouse does not play, there is no way that

these crimes and criminals should go free. This reflects on all of us.

[Windy]

7. Its called, "obama is smart". The DOJ is the authority on this matter and not the administration

I read that they are discussing a special prosecutor as the DOJ may have a conflict problem with investigating itself and will more than likely have to provide a defense for the government.

[malaise]

11. 100% correct n/t

[Orsino]

54. Yes. Waffling by Obama sets the wrong tone, IMO...

...but if it helps his DoJ the job done, I will be mollified.

[TahitiNut]

9. Isikoff laid it out quite well. The White House SHOULDN'T be opining on potential prosecution.

This is the aspect that's most disturbing and not well discussed. Many have been justifiably outraged many times in the last eight years regarding White House interference in (and politicization of) Justice Department prosecutions, or absence thereof. Hell, that's what the whole U. S. Attorney FUBAR was all about.

[malaise]

12. Correct

:hi:

[EFerrari]

15. That's right. The WH shouldn't be handing down its

judgments as if they carry the force of LAW.

[malaise]

23. I love Sheldon Whitehouse

That is one serious man.

[EFerrari]

24. Yes. He's one of the better ones. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

17. Perhaps this Administration wanted their wish documented for a specific reason.....

like....so that history cannot be rewritten later on by the rethugs as needed.

[TahitiNut]

28. Sadly, we've had too many years of politicization of probable war crimes prosecution.

From "off the table" to the Ashcroft fiasco and onwards. One of the more disgusting attitudes I saw on DU was the notion that crimes could be ignored for electoral advantage. When partisans are willing to forgo the Rule of Law due to a "concern" for partisan political advantage in an election, I'm happy I'm an independent liberal.

I suspect that this is one of the most important reasons we're swimming in the septic tank ... we made a deal with that Devil and it's biting us all in the ass.

[cali]

20. eggzactly.

wish people understood that or recalled it.

[tomp]

33. if a crime has obviously been committed and doj does not prosecute...

....what is obama's role, what, if any, action should he take?

[TahitiNut]

35. I guess it's a matter of how "obviously" is defined. Legally? According to whom?

In the past, Presidents have used their pardon power to make such matters moot.

[Beetwasher]

50. Well, I've Been Saying This OVER AND OVER AND OVER On DU

For weeks now about Obama and DOJ. Not many have been listening to me.

[MissDeeds]

14. "Considering"?

Oh come on. Enough of this BS. The bastards are guilty of shredding the Constitution, making a mockery of our democracy, and torturing human beings. Get the freaking hearings underway already.
Sheesh!

:wtf:

[deminks]

18. Rachel also reporting that Judge Bybee has lawyered up.

Interesting.

[malaise]

22. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

I'm lovin' this - the day of reckoning awaits. Justice is coming and they are scared shitless. Who will commit suicide first? :rofl:

[FrenchieCat]

25. In fact, Cheney is manning the phones as we type!

He's been calling everybody!

[malaise]

27. Yah think

Lets see who else hired a lawyer. :rofl:

[Blackhatjack]

29. It only makes sense that a Judge on the 2nd Highest Ct in the land would hire a lawyer...

.... He, if anyone, would know when he is in trouble and needs the wise counsel of his own personal lawyer.

This could be a huge because his investigation and prosecution could lead to the involvement of others who are presently keeping a very low profile.

He needs to be treated to more than mere impeachment.... after all it was on his sayso that human beings were subjected to the torture he OKed.

[G_j]

26. Rachel is great!

I am so grateful to her for getting serious about the torture issue.

[Solly Mack]

30. K&R

[spanone]

31. i think this is why the white house can 'look forward'...it's a justice thingy

the white house doesn't prosecute

the white house doesn't do crime

[NNN0LHI]

44. They are dotting their i's and crossing their t's

And that is a good idea under the circumstances we find ourselves in.

Don

[Iwillnevergiveup]

32. After Obama

serves out his 8 years, we gotta get Sheldon Whitehouse in the White House. He is one smart, serious dude, and I feel more hopeful than ever that some measure of justice is gonna get served up with regard to torture.

[puebloknot]

41. Second the nomination on Whitehouse! nt

[bdamomma]

66. as a RI'er what a nice thing to say about Senator Whitehouse.

He is one smart cookie and he does his homework too.

[nini]

34. IMHO - I think they're already setting this up

I'm guessing they want to get it right when they move forward and by the time enough info gets released to the public everyone, except the 30% nutcases, will want their heads on a platter.

[Mari333]

36. now that made my night. nt

[chill_wind]

37. Oh let us hope, let us hope!

And keep socking AG Holder and Congress with your insistence and your support:

(links)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8356181#top

K & R.

[defendandprotect]

38. And aren't we supposed to be PUSHING from the bottom up . . . ???

[FrenchieCat]

39. Ye-Ah!

Here.... http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5494148&mesg_id=5494148

[defendandprotect]

42. Love Nadler . . . thanks for the petition . . .

Wasn't able to complete Nadler's form -- I'm in NJ -
but I'll try to remember late to try again.

[snot]

40. WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO GET HIM/THEM TO DO WHAT IS CLEARLY THEIR JOBS?

Sorry to be so strident. But for some years now, I've been agitating, writing letters, participating in or even organizing protests, and much more. I've even scolded others -- just give them time! Kerry/Congressional Dems/Obama are just being strategic and will ultimately do what needs to be done.

So far, not so good.

[defendandprotect]

43. Keep at it -- most of all TPB would like you to feel there's nothing you can do!

Look at the money and influence on these elected officials who have been so thoroughly

bought for decades! It will take a lot of pushing to combat that!

[pleah]

46. K&R

[salguine]

48. Holder? "Considering" doesn't cut it, bitch. These were Crimes Against Humanity. Either

do something or don't. Don't "consider".

[olegramps]

49. Obama is doing exactly what Bush did.

The Bush administration has been strongly criticized on this board for manipulating the DOJ to serve its political purposes. I don't see a lot of difference in what President Obama's administration is doing when they are dictating who should or should not be prosecuted. I suppose that I am naive in believing that the DOJ was supposed to inforce the law without regard to any political reprecussions.

I would have thought that with his knowledge of the law that President Obama would have simply said that the decision to prosecute would be solely determined by the DOJ. Seems that the more things CHANGE the more the stay the same.

[tekisui]

51. Oh Puh-lease.

Obama isn't controlling Holder. Obama is saying what he believes is important as CiC. Holder IS doing the work of the DoJ.

[salguine]

53. I don't think anyone voted for Obama based upon

whether he will condescend to enforce whichever laws he decides are important.

And while Obama is not "controlling" Holder, Holder, as Attorney General, IS ANSWERABLE TO THE PRESIDENT. Spare me your "Puh-lease".

[tekisui]

55. Puh-lease.

You think that Obama saying that he wants to move forward, while an investigation is obviously going on at the DoJ is comparable to bush using the DoJ to wrongfully convict Democrats and rig elections?

You really see a comparison?

[olegramps]

59. Yes, I do.

I see no difference between allowing criminal activity to knowingly go unpunished and punishing the innocent. Both are miscarriages of justice. Where in the Constitution does it give President Obama the right to decide if those who actually conducted the torture should be prosecuted or not?

It appears to be contradictory that we are deporting a man who cooperated with Hitler and his henchmen in torturing and killing Jews while we can turn a blind eye to CIA agents doing the bidding of the Bush administration. I thought that the excuse "I was only following orders" was rejected at Nuremberg. Just what type of people are they hiring at the CIA who would conduct these revolting interrogations?

[tekisui]

69. It's not 'going unpunished'.

An investigation is being held, Obama is not standing in the way. Sorry you can't see reality and the difference between the two scenarios.

[salguine]

62. Puh-lease.

Puh-lease.

[Spazito]

56. The difference is the Obama administration is NOT dictating to the DOJ...

and, as reported, the DOJ IS looking at this. The Department of Justice's OPR (Office of Professional Responsibility)has been investigating the OLC (Office of Legal Council) for over a year, their report is only a few weeks away. Once that report is released, further action will be determined by the DOJ.

If President Obama was doing exactly what Bush did, he would have interferred with the DOJ or OPR's investigation once he took office. He is doing the OPPOSITE of Bush.

Link to Sen. Whitehouse's comments re OPR:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x300157

[Adelante]

57. Thank you, Spazito!

Every day is :banghead: time with this.

[Spazito]

58. It surely is!

It continues to amaze me when I see posts wanting President Obama to do what Bush did and interfere with the DOJ by telling them they MUST investigate, they MUST do what the White House and then saying he is just like Bush for NOT doing it!

Adhering to the Constitution, the separation of Powers, retaining the autonomy of the DOJ means actions isn't taken on the turn of a dime, there is a process to follow and the Obama Administration is following it as frustrating as it may be to some.

[Beetwasher]

60. Yup, I Have Been Making This Point OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN

On DU. Looks some others are finally starting to get it. This goes for the myriad of ongoing investigations into Bushco abuses.

[Spazito]

63. I think it will become clear over time....

but until then, as frustrating as it is, it is important to keep correcting the "Obama=Bush" supposition using facts.

[meegbear]

52. Rachel Ray's sure getting serious these days ...

shaking her EVOO image, I guess.

[derby378]

61. Don't choke under the pressure, Holder...

:bounce:

[bdamomma]

64. this is good news these thugs should not be let go.

[chill_wind]

68. Kick

[DearAbby]

70. I remember the times I cried

in the past few months, like a release of a weight from my soul. The night Obama was elected, and last night when I watched Rachel's show to hear the breaking news.

I hadn't realized the weight of shame and guilt on my spirit, with the knowledge, we as a country had tortured other human beings. I had no hand in it, I spoke loudly against it. Yet it was still there.

The only way to purge this, is to expose it. And prosecute those responsible for it. It is the only way we can move forward as a nation. It is the only way we can move forward.