Dude, You’ve Got Problems

[ccharles000]

Early this month, Carl Joseph Walker-Hoover, an 11-year-old boy from Springfield, Mass., hanged himself after months of incessantly being hounded by his classmates for being “gay.” (He was not; but did, apparently, like to do well in school.)

In March, 2007, 17-year-old Eric Mohat shot himself in the head, after a long-term tormentor told him in class, “Why don’t you go home and shoot yourself; no one will miss you.” Eric liked theater, played the piano and wore bright clothing, a lawyer for his family told ABC news, and so had long been subject to taunts of “gay,” “fag,” “queer” and “homo.”

Teachers and school administrators, the Mohats’ lawsuit now asserts, did nothing.

We should do something to get this insanity under control.

I’m not just talking about combating bullying, which has been a national obsession ever since Columbine, and yet seems to continue unabated. I’m only partly talking about homophobia, which, though virulent, cruel and occasionally fatal among teenagers, is not the whole story behind the fact that words like “fag” and “gay” are now among the most potent and feared weapons in the school bully’s arsenal.

http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/who-are-you-calling-gay/

[Captain Hilts]

1. I thought this was excellent. nt

[Stellabella]

2. My dh is a teacher, and he STOMPS on this.

His kids know that they had better not pick on anybody, for any reason at all, or he will flunk them.

And he has.

[dysfunctional press]

51. dh?

:shrug:

[Stellabella]

56. dear husband

[TahitiNut]

69. "Designated Hitter" ... in an American League marriage.

:silly:

[AnnieBW]

3. Only now?

I dated a guy in HS that had the word "FAG" burned into the lawn in front of his house. Poor guy. He was a nerd. I was a fat chick. We had a lot in common.

[Peace_Sells]

4. no subject

I was good at school but other kids constantly gave me hell. Even though I was straight they called me a fag homo queer gay and shit every fucking day. I was spat on, beat up, had things thrown at me. I nearly commited suicide because of all the hell they gave me. They tormented me to no end and when I was 16 I left school. If it had not been for them I'd have a high school education. We have to do everything we can to stop bullying. One of the worst things is most adults do not take bullying seriosly. They say its just a lil teasing, grow thicker skin, ignore them, don't worry about it and other bullshit thats blows it off or they even go as far as to blame the victim. You cannot ignore this shit when its happening to you. Its more than a little teasing its torture. Don't let them destroy anymore lives.

[ccharles000]

6. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[Peace_Sells]

12. Thanks

[8 track mind]

10. I've been there man

I don't know you, but it sounds like we went down the same path growing up. The tormenting from long ago came back to haunt me in adulthood, nearly causing me to commit suicide. The only thing that saved me was the martial arts. It turned my life around for the better.

[Peace_Sells]

16. hi

I had actually considered martial arts but never got serious with it. But now that you mention it I may look into it.

[8 track mind]

25. It changed my whole life

and that change was for the better. It's been six years now since i started. 4 years in Taekwondo and 1.5 years in American Karate. Check you mailbox on DU as i will be sending you a PM

[Canuckistanian]

13. Welcome to DU

We've all been like you or watched people like you our whole lives.

We understand.

:toast:
:hi:

[Peace_Sells]

18. Thanks

I'm glad someone does. =)

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. Welcome to DU and lord knows I know exactly what you talk about

been there, done that got the T-Shirt and didn't like it

It needs to be stopped... PERIOD

[Stargazer09]

64. Welcome to DU!

I wasn't bullied too much, but I got enough of it to know that I hated it.

What really disturbed me was the way my third son was treated in middle school in Louisiana. From the first day of school, he was slammed into concrete walls by kids three or four years older than he was (held back, I presume, for not being able to pass the tests required to move on to high school). There was a racial element to the bullying, which frustrated me to no end. How can I raise my son to be tolerant when members of another race were the only ones beating him up at school? Anyway, right before Christmas, I accompanied my son to the principal to discuss all of the bullying. She turned to my son and asked him what he did to deserve it. WTF??? Thankfully, my ex-husband lived in another state with much better and safer schools, so my son was able to transfer after the holidays. He's doing very well right now, but I really miss him.

I agree with you about stopping this. Unfortunately, I think a large part of the problem is that bullies grow up and breed. They raise their own children to be just like them, thus perpetuating the problems from one generation to the next.

Have you considered going back to school?

:hug:

[Hekate]

73. Welcome to DU. A lot of us have been there or skirted that hell, gay or straight.

I was shy and bookish, and grew up with a family dynamic that taught me to take the teasing and suffer in silence. Fight back? What a laugh. As a girl, for physical defense I was taught to run. For verbal defense I was taught that anything I said was asking for more and made it my fault in the first place.

It was great training for getting along in life, I tell ya. (And yes, Mom, this is :sarcasm: here.)

One thing I learned, though: when I discovered that my 5 year old daughter knew how to fight back against playground bullies I didn't train her out of it. She called one a dirty name (didn't learn that from me!) and he left her alone. Another one shoved her into a closet at after school care but made the mistake of leaving his finger in the hole where the doorknob used to be. And when she was in jr hi and a boy a year older tried to spread rumors about her at the high school, she got her posse together at a friend's house and got them on every phone extension in the place to hear her confront him.

I made a lot of mistakes with that girl, but teaching her to run instead of fight was not one of them.

Glad you dropped in Peace_Sells. We have some interesting times here.

Hekate

[NYC_SKP]

5. This is why, to this day, Jocks and smartasses in school really disturb me.

I was a bit like these poor kids, smart and nerdy and not too popular.

There's a certain element in every school that likes to belittle the smart kids, the different kids ("bully" doesn't really describe it) and it breaks my heart because it happened to a certain degree to me.

:cry:

Edited to add: "recommended".

[MrSlayer]

7. People only bully you as long as you allow them to.

Whatever happened to putting a billiard ball in a sock and beating the piss out of your tormentors? Or just cold-cocking one of them? Most of the time, standing up for yourself puts an end to it. Even if you lose the fight you still get respect for showing up. Bullies are usually cowards at heart.

[dorkulon]

11. Such naive BS.

Clearly, you don't know what it can be like for the designated target. It's not just one or two kids, it's all of them. It's never a fair fight. And some people are just gentle and non-confrontational. Don't forget, if all someone is doing is needling you verbally, and you react with violence, you're the one who gets in trouble.

[MrSlayer]

20. I've been there. I know of what I speak.

I was the person getting bullied and bothered and pushed around. And it was because I didn't want to hurt anyone else as much as my own fear of being hurt that it went on as long as it did. I got sick of it and I fought back. And I got beat up but I found out that it wasn't that bad. Black eyes and split lips heal, it didn't kill me. And after it became known that I refused to take shit from anyone anymore regardless of their size or numbers it stopped happening because they didn't like getting hurt any more than I did. You have to stand up for yourself if you want any respect. That's the way it works in the street, always has, always will.

If it's just verbal abuse you give it back as good as you get it or ignore it. Sticks and stones and all that. Again, standing up for yourself is paramount.

[dorkulon]

24. I agree with that, but

a lot of these are just not tough, which is the primary reason they get messed with in the first place. My problem with what you're saying is that it seems to imply that someone who is not as tough as you were essentially deserves prolonged persecution. In other words, "just be a hard-ass" isn't really a solution for most kids, because if they were hard-asses, they wouldn't be getting picked on in the first place. Being a nice person, a "wuss" as it were, just doesn't merit persecution.

[MrSlayer]

26. Nobody deserves to be tormented for being nice.

That's not what I'm saying at all. You don't deserve to be picked on simply because you won't fight back but that is the way it is with teenagers. It's like a prison mentality.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. I stood up, hit back didn't help

so I'd say it does not work all the time

Glad it worked for you

Me, it took a change in school

And to this day I don't want to know what happened to those people... couldn't care less if they died

Granted, one of them became my patient years later... I treated her on the way to the hospital, filled my EMS report, had it signed by docs and walked away.

I gave her the exact same professional polite care I'd give any other patient, but didn't care what happened after that.

Karma some might say

[MrSlayer]

31. Fair enough.

Not all remedies are sovereign.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. I think that in some cases fighting back works though

in others, changing schools

A few kids perhaps will do best in home schooling

Perhaps it is a situation by situation thing, and yes gender. Fighting back I believe may work better for males than females

Ph and when I did... I had to 'splain to teachers why I kickled the kid that kicked me first in the knees, in the knees

After all, they were angels

:sarcasm:

but the effects on the psyche are deep and to this day I don't want to know anything about those "kids."

[VOX]

79. Agreed. In some situations, fighting back can take power away from the bully...

And he (the bully) is surprised to be himself "bitten."

When I was a kid, a Finnish family (including a son) moved into the block. There were three brothers who were sheer bullies, and they just taunted the hell out of this kid, day in and day out. One day, this behavior became close-quarters, and the Finnish boy defended himself from the bullies' shouting and shoving. There was a lot of grappling and hollering, and the Finnish boy got a bloody nose in the process. But from that day forward, he was never bothered again. In fact, he eventually became a cop, and I often wondered if the taunting, etc. he suffered may have contributed to his deciding on that line of work.

In my own case, I managed to defuse the bullies' heckling with my use of humor -- I have a gift for light-heartedness that's contagious.

[Control-Z]

38. A gentle soul, low self exteme,

lack of support... all contribute to making what you did impossible for some. In fact, for most that are bullied. You were one of the lucky ones.

And never think that because you can do something, then everyone can also do the same. It's just false. Same "bootstraps" philosophy the repugs live by. Wrong.

[MrSlayer]

42. True enough.

I can only speak from my own experience.

[sampsonblk]

67. Standing up to a bully almost always ends it. Even if its a crowd.

If you stand up to one of them, the rest of them get the message.

I've seen it many many times.

[Peace_Sells]

14. no sub

That is not how it works at all. My last year I got into a fight and got my ass kicked. That made it 20 times worse. Everything went completly to hell and lots of bullies wanted to fight and started all kinds of shit. You cannot fight off 50 people and I am not exagerating the number. Your response falls into the category of not taking bullying serious as I mentioned in my earlier post. Don't underestimate how damanging this shit is.

[MrSlayer]

23. I know how serious it is.

I dealt with it. And you don't need to fight 50 people at once. If you are that outnumbered you run. You have to get them alone. It's amazing how different the attitude is when you do that. And yeah, after the first one a few more will come out to take a shot but once you weather that it usually ends. I've seen it play out a hundred times. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.

[Lorien]

15. Nonsense. I was bullied incessantly throughout my school career

by a large number of boys in my school. A little girl is expected to take a baseball bat to an entire PACK of larger boys? It would have been nice to have had one advocate there, but as a speech impaired kid with thick glasses, braces and a facial deformity, I didn't stand a chance.

[MrSlayer]

21. Well where I come from you don't pick on girls like that.

I'm sorry to hear that you had no one to stand for you. I would have.

[Skittles]

36. I always stuck up for kids like you

maybe it was easier for me - I was a GI brat, always the outsider and knew I would not be around long - I'd get right in there and stomp the tormenters......decades later I still get former classmates tracking me down to tell me thanks :)

[Stargazer09]

65. That's great!

I bet it makes you feel good to get those "thank you" messages! :)

:patriot:

[Skittles]

86. yes it does

it's cool that people remember and say it made a difference - because honestly, I never thought much about it - that was simply my nature :)

[Lilith Velkor]

53. I've taken on packs before - you pick the biggest boy and bust his head open

The rest will run away.

Sure, I got locked up for it - but once I got out, nobody fucked with the gay kids because they would have to deal with me.

[lukasahero]

54. "bust his head open"

Some of us aren't psychologically built to do that. Sorry, I'll keep getting picked on rather than 'bust someone's head open'.

Geez, half the threads on the GD first page talk about how we're such a violent nation and we wonder where it comes from and yet, the answers offered to prevent getting bullied is more violence. :eyes:

[Lilith Velkor]

63. Getting picked on is different than getting beaten and molested by a pack

After multiple instances, and having authority figures steadfastly refusing to help, one can find oneself abruptly capable of doing whatever it takes to make it stop.

I suppose I should have just taken it, and let them escalate to rape and murder like they kept threatening to do. So sorry my continuing to exist offends you. :eyes:

[lukasahero]

74. I never suggested what you did offended me

However you were suggesting that everyone should do what you did and I was just trying to point out that not all of us are built that way. FTR, I've been raped. I guess in your view, I didn't fight hard enough to stop it so I deserved it, right?

Jesus fucking Christ people can't have a fucking discussion on a discussion board any more. You won't have to worry about offending me any more because I've just decided I'll not be responding to any of your posts again. But in the future, if you don't want any one to offer an alternate opinion to yours, perhaps you clearly say so in your post.

[Lorien]

88. Kill 'em there so you won't have to kill 'em at home later?

where have we heard that before? Oh yeah, from the world's number one bully!

[Lorien]

87. I wasn't raised that way and I NEVER would choose violence

as a solution to ANY problem. We were nonviolent kids in a very liberal school. The bullying was verbal and I was always shunned. Violence would NOT have been tolerated, and I'm strongly against it's use as a "solution" to problems today. Doesn't work in Iraq. doesn't work on a playground. We need to evolve beyond that knuckle dragging bullshit.

[Wednesdays]

22. HAH! You "stand up for yourself" and you get blamed for the whole ordeal

Believe me, I've been there done that many times. Yeah, put the billiard ball in the sock...go ahead and knock out a few teeth and eyes. You know what happens then? You and your parents' asses are hauled into the police station and then the courts, where criminal and civil charges are brought against you and your family. Because, gosh darn, those poor victims :nopity: were just standing there "doin' nuthin'" and you, the wild unruly bully you are, came out of nowhere and viciously attacked them.

THAT will be the story, and everyone involved in the situation (except you) will swear to it.

Maybe the above scenario won't happen. If you're lucky no charges will be brought against you, and you'll only have to endure the rest of your school days totally ostracized.

[MrSlayer]

27. You don't have to do it in front of anyone.

And I'm intentionally over the top with the billiard ball scenario. I do forget how ridiculously litigious society is now. When I was a kid if you had a fight, you fought and it was over. No cops, no parents, no bloodsucking lawyers involved. It's still like that in certain places. My solution remains though, stand up for yourself, get one of the bastards alone and beat his ass. Repeat as necessary but there probably won't be a next time after the first one.

[conscious evolution]

43. I have to agree with you

I had to catch a couple alone and put them in the hospital before it ended.And end it did.

[Wednesdays]

44. I guess I don't know what I'm talking about, huh?

There was a stupid kid in my 7th grade class...this was 35 years ago mind you...kept harassing me. Over and over.

Finally, I had enough of him, and when the time was right and no one was looking, I gave him a poke in the eye. Should have taught him a lesson, right? Wrong.

The next day his mother physically dragged me from the bus stop, sat me down in her house while she wrote down information about me. My trying to deny what happened only made her madder. The idiot son stood there, looking smug as ever.

When I got home, I was in a heap of trouble from my parents.

That's how it works.

[ellie]

61. Her dragging you

into her house is considered kidnapping. My little brother was being bullied by the kids down the street. I started fighting them and then went after their stupid parents. I remember one stupid sow standing with her mouth open while I read her the riot act and threatened her. She did nothing and the bullying stopped. I was only three years older than my brother too. My parents were busy working and expected us to fight our battles. Those little turds who bullied are all grown up losers now!

[Wednesdays]

68. Sigh...solve violence with violence

And a 12 year old is supposed to know the nuances of kidnapping laws. :eyes:

[ellie]

94. No, not at all.

But you should know that people aren't allowed to drag you into their house. No matter who they are. Isn't that Safety 101? Didn't your parents tell you to run away from strangers? I am not sure what the problem is here.

[Lyric]

83. You pull that shit these days and you go to jail.

And you'd better believe the prosecutor's gonna try his damndest to try you as an adult, too, so it stays on your record. There is no more playground justice. In many cases it seems like there are only three options: taking the torture, destroying your future by fighting back hard enough to make it stop (and getting yourself arrested,) or killing yourself.

Is it any wonder so many kids pick the last option?

If we're going to have Zero Tolerance about fighting, then we need to have Zero Tolerance about teasing, bullying, and torturing.

[chill_wind]

8. K & R n/t

[dorkulon]

9. I don't know if it's really possible to stop kids from being mean to each other.

I was a target for a long time, until at some point in my junior year I stopped caring what other people thought of me, at which point I immediately became very popular. Until then, school was a daily nightmare. But I don't really know if it's possible to stop this kind of persecution. Kids are just terrible to each other, and they always have been. And they always will be. I agree teachers and parents should discourage it, but as soon as they trun their backs it will happen anyway. Why? Because people are not primarily kind or decent, they are fearful and cruel. They are primates, and beating up on each other establishes the pecking order. They are all jockeying for a higher position.

[Toucano]

17. +1

I was going to post something very similar but I thought it sounded insensitive. You did it well.

I ran into a guy who was cruel to me in junior high a few years ago. He literally had tears in his eyes when he apologized to me. He had felt bad about it for years, but as an adolescent, he could not help himself. It is like a stage of development for some people, I think.

Even in very homogeneous groups of adolescents when there are very few differences to single out, they will find something.

I think our best way of fighting the negative impact of bullying is to reinforce the self-esteem of the victims. Parents and teachers can't always be there to stop it, but they should try to spot the victims and make an extra effort to encourage and build them up.

The impact for gay and lesbian adolescents is so much greater because many adults are uncomfortable or in denial of it and the youth is embarrassed and ashamed to bring it up. They can't always make it known that they need help.

You can't stop an earthquake, but you can make a building stronger so it can resist being destroyed.

[Control-Z]

39. You're wrong.

It is not the victim who needs to be taught to deal. The bully needs to be stopped. You may not be able to stop an earthquake, but you can stop a human being from beating up on another.

An attitude like yours keeps the victim the responsible party, and gives excuses to the bully, which is total and complete bullshit. Just like guys who can't help it when they rape women. It's the woman's fault, right?

'but as an adolescent, he could not help himself. It is like a stage of development for some people, I think.'

[Toucano]

52. By all means, proceed.

Take whatever means you can to stop bullying. That would be ideal.

I never said it was the victims' fault, and for you to say I did is insulting and asinine.

What I suggested was we teach the victim MENTAL self-defense against the effects of being bullied because we can't always be there to stop the bully. The bully doesn't directly kill these children and that gives us a window to intercede and save a life.

The entirety of human history refutes your assertion that "...you can stop a human being from beating up on another." If it were true, the world would be a very different place.

[Control-Z]

55. The world would be

a different place if more adults opened their eyes to the problem and put a stop to bullying at a young age. Sure, by the time these kids grow up the problem becomes more difficult. Of course. There are adult bullies everywhere. But had they not been allowed to practice the behavior as children they might not be that way as adults.

There is nothing wrong with helping the child that's being bullied to protect himself and deal with the problem, but saying that a bully just can't help being a bully is BS. And that is what you said. If they can't help themselves, then they need to be helped. There needs to be punishment for bullying, as there is for any other crime. Serious consequences could go a long way in stopping it. You say it's a part of adolescence. Well, so is shoplifting for some kids. But shoplifters are punished for their adolescent behavior. Why should bullying, which is far more destructive, be any different? But more often than not the victim gets the lesson, or gets removed from the situation, while the bullies keep up the destructive behavior.

It's all very backward.

[givemebackmycountry]

19. "TONY" by Patti Griffin

"Tony"

Does anyone remember Tony
A quiet boy, little over weight
He had breasts like a girl
When I wasn't too busy feeling lonely
I'd stare over his shoulder
At a map of the world
He always finished all his homework
Raised his hand in homerooom
He called the morning attendance
With the pledge alligence to the gloom

Hey Tony, what's so good about dying
He said I think I might do a little dying today
He looked in the mirror and saw
A little faggot starin back at him
Pulled out a gun and blew himself away

I hated every day of high school
It's funny, I guess you did too
Its funny how I never knew
There I was sitting right behind you
They wrote it in the local rag
Death comes to the local fag
I guess you finally stopped believing
That any hope would ever find you
Well I know that story,
I was sitting right behind you

Hey Tony, what's so good about dying
He said I think I might do a little dying today
He looked in the mirror and saw
A little faggot starin back at him
Pulled out a gun and blew himself away

Hey Tony whats so good about dying, dying
Hey Tony whats so good about dying, dying
Hey Tony, what's so good about dying
He said I think I might do a little dying today
He looked in the mirror and saw
A little faggot starin back at him
Pulled out a gun and blew himself away
Pulled out a gun and blew himself away
Pulled out a gun and blew himself away
Tony...

[file83]

28. When a bully calls you "fag"...

...the possibilities of your fun responses are endless

Just a few ideas...

You can mock them indirectly by insinuating that they are the one, who is in fact gay.

BULLY: Nice pants, fag!
YOU: You're judging my fashion, and you call ME a fag? What, do you want me to wear them tighter?

BULLY: Fuck you, you little faggot!
YOU: Is that how you like your men, little?!! No thanks, guy.

BULLY: I'm gonna kick your ass!
YOU: Are you sure that's what you want to do to my ass, guy?

And so on. The intellectual combat will tire the bully and might actually begin to win respect from your fellow peers for beating the bully at their own game. Yeah sure, you might be smaller/gentler (maybe even gay or not, doesn't matter), but you are making people laugh.

If the bully attacks you, you sue the living shit out of his family. Or, if you don't want to sue, tell the authorities/administration that if they don't do something about it, that you will, legally, against THEM if you get attacked again.

Another thing to do is go to a lawyers office and ask for a business card (free!) and the next time the bully says something to you, hand them the lawyer's business card and say, "You may be able to kick my ass, but my lawyer will own your ass in court. Ball's in your court, or maybe not..." and walk away. Or you could reverse it and when you hand them the business card say, "Someday you're gonna lose what little self control you have and probably assault me, so I hear these guys are great defense attorneys. Trust me, you're gonna need it."

There are so many simple things you can do to fuck with bullies. You just need to get creative and get some courage. It will only make you stronger if you let it.

[Missy Vixen]

33. I went to junior high and high school with one of the preeminent violinists in the world

My school years were no picnic, but his were worse.

Mark O'Connor (for those who've ever heard "Appalachian Waltz", with him, YoYoMa and a third performer,) gets his name called almost every year now at the Grammy Awards. He probably uses the things for doorstops. He was playing at the Grand Old Opry when we were in junior high. His career has been astonishing; even more astonishing is the fact he succeeded despite what happened to him in school and at home.

If you'd like to read about his experiences, you may find them interesting. http://www.markoconnor.com/index.php?page=bio&family=mark&category=01--Diaries__&display=1615

Reading his experiences crystallized something I'd always wondered about, but never quite knew how to put into words. Not only were we battling the bullies, we were dealing with a large number of teachers who either looked the other way or just didn't care. I typically stick up for teachers. They have a ROUGH job. At the same time, there is no excuse for the Edmonds School District in the 1960's - 1970's. To this day, just the thought that our music teachers bullied and humiliated a teenage musician that was already playing on a national level (and mentored by some of the finest musicians in the world) before he left high school is unbelievable to me.

[Bluebear]

34. OMG what a sublime piece of music :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD6RR5B-YCo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adTeX5mUC8s

[Missy Vixen]

35. The CD is beautiful, isn't it?

He guested with the Seattle Symphony recently. I would like to go the next time he appears here.

And, yes, he's one more person that was tormented in school.

[Mopar151]

37. Important points, to be sure

Because a lot of bullying is done out of envy and jealousy. Worse, these sleaseballs are just tuning up for real life, where they can trash workplace morale and ruin careers.

[Hannah Bell]

41. he makes mountlake terrace in the 70s sound like it was the ghetto. it wasn't.

[Missy Vixen]

57. Here we go again, Hannah

Did you live there? I did. My family moved to MLT when I was two; I was there till 1983. My mother lived there till her death in 1990.

I got chased home from school at knifepoint by a bully more than once. In Mountlake Terrace. In the sixties.

Mountlake Terrace in those days was a lower-middle-class suburb full of some fairly ugly stuff. In the meantime, if you think Mark O'Connor's lying about it, I encourage you to contact him and verify his story. NPR evidently found it to be true, as well as other news organizations over the years.

[Hannah Bell]

75. i don't disbelieve him. i don't disbelieve you. but i lived in the south end.

mountlake terrace = white, working class, nothing special.

[Missy Vixen]

81. And your point is?

>mountlake terrace = white, working class, nothing special.<

And full of kids who were told daily by a large number of teachers and administrators in Mountlake Terrace's schools they would amount to nothing.

Some took the path of least resistance, and are still drinking and drugging. Others of us have managed to prove them wrong.

[Lyric]

84. What are you trying to say?!

That only black neighborhoods can be vicious or dangerous?? Why the race qualifier??

:wtf:

I really hope you clarify your meaning there, because I find it impossible to believe you actually MEANT that the way it came out. Jesus.

[MrsMatt]

66. Edgar Meyer is the 3rd performer

and a fabulous bass player.

[canetoad]

40. Hate to say this son, but

the only way to combat bullying is to take them out back and whup the shit outta them.

People do not change. Make that the mantra of your life.

[shadowknows69]

48. What has changed is the intensity of that situation

These days to put the bully in his place often times involves a gun. Kids don't have schoolyard fights that end with one shaking the other's hand and maybe a black eye anymore.

[shadowknows69]

45. The hate has increased exponentially over the years

I can't remember the word "Gay" being used as a weapon as much when I was a kid; and if anybody should have been pummled with such accusations it should have been me; in theater, very few girlfriends in high school and some friends of mine and me even took to occasionally wearing eye makeup (mid 80's, trying to be weirdly fashionable), but you never really heard "fag", "queer", "gay", being thrown around as insults. People are flanning the flames of ignorance and hatred like never before with the aid of hate radio.

[tomreedtoon]

46. You will never stop bullying. YOU FOOLS.

Bullying is an intrinsic part of human nature. You may not like it. I sure didn't like being on the receiving end of it. But unless you provide a frontal lobotomy to each and every child, destroying their personality (some would say destroying the soul) you will never stop the innate, unstoppable cruelty of man.

And unfortunately, supposed "educators" and "child welfare experts" would be all too willing to perform those lobotomies.

[Missy Vixen]

59. So, in other words, that's okay.

Bullying is an "intrinsic part of human nature"? In other words, we have no hope of making it stop, and we might as well accept that?

What is it that you are trying to say?

Did you bully in school? Do you do so now?

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VOX]

80. Geez, you don't have to be a bully about bullying. Was that upper-case "YOU FOOLS" really necessary?

In spite of your roughshod presentation, I am in partial agreement. There has always been a "Lord of the Flies" element among young boys, and there always will be.

However, that doesn't mean that efforts to bring about change in this area should cease. Even if just a handful of kids can be delivered from this behavior -- a behavior that really serves no purpose -- then those efforts are worthwhile.

[tomreedtoon]

91. You have to let fools understand that THEY ARE FOOLS.

Thus the caps. Thus the exhortation with the long arm pointing its finger at you.

There is no point to the efforts to stop bullying. It is precisely like the "virginity" movement in high schools. How can you convince a bully that beating someone's face until it's bloody, or forcing sexual humiliation, or...hell, taking a life isn't fun? They're wired that way, and only death will change them.

[cabbage08]

47. K&R

[Rockholm]

49. An 11-year old hung himself recently. Same thing.

Reported in The Boston Globe on Sunday.

[chrisa]

50. The problem is that most teachers don't care, or...

Join in on the victimization themselves.

[Catherine Vincent]

58. Everytime one of these bullying threads open on DU,

I always try and look for someone to post that was one of the bullies in their time. That never happens. Is it because they are ashamed of what they did or is it no big deal to them. You always hear from the ones that were bullied but not the bullies themselves.

[redqueen]

60. Maybe the bullies are the ones saying we'll never get rid of it...

or that all that needs to be done is punch them.

Just wondering out loud...

[Lilith Velkor]

62. Mandatory martial arts in elementary school would get rid of most of it

That's why nobody messes with Korean girls.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

70. Oh, I used to bully people.

At times I was also bullied.

Isn't that how it always works?

[ieoeja]

72. No. But I've known enough bullies in life to know you really believe that.

But the brutal truth is that the vast majority of us never bullied those weaker than us.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

76. Oh I don't believe that for a second.

I don't think there's anybody here or anywhere else that didn't participate in some form of bullying during 13 years of school.

In fact, many of the anti-bullying crusaders are bullies themselves when it comes to draconian punishments for bullies.

[ieoeja]

77. Like I said, I know that's what you believe.

Every bully I have ever argued with used that reasoning as an excuse for their actions. For that matter, every thief I ever befriended used that reasoning ("everyone steals; we're just more honest about it").

I even read once that a poll taken among Chicago gangsters indicated that most of them believe that 90% of people in the United States will kill someone at some point in their life!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

78. Alright.

And I once read a study that said the biggest whiners about porn were some of the biggest consumers of porn.

[Missy Vixen]

82. I didn't

And you are just attempting to justify your own bad behavior.

>In fact, many of the anti-bullying crusaders are bullies themselves when it comes to draconian punishments for bullies.<

Uh-huh.

All children should be able to obtain an education without spending their days in fear. If it requires the expulsion of those who can't seem to function in an educational setting, so be it.

In the meantime, it's interesting what happens when the bullied are on a more level playing field, namely, the neighborhood or the workplace. They get ostracized and shunned, don't they?

[RedCappedBandit]

90. Hahahahahahahahahhaha. nt

[Control-Z]

95. I never bullied.

By the way you behave here at DU, though, it doesn't surprise that you did (do).

[Reterr]

96. You don't say!

I am shocked....No! Not you!!!
:rofl:

[BlueIris]

71. We actually did have a former bully confess to us at one time.

But I don't think I can name the poster without breaking the rules.

Sometimes they do embrace their humanity later in life and regret their actions. But since a lot of bullies are full-blown sociopaths, many (if not most, the stats I've seen vary quite a bit) lack the conscience to feel guilt over their behavior.

[Lyric]

85. Oh, you'll find the bullies. They don't come out and say so, but

you can spot them pretty easily. Just look for the people claiming that victims just need to "toughen up" and "fight back," because we'll never, ever get rid of bullies.

:eyes:

[Control-Z]

93. Well, a few of them do come out and say so

ahem *just up thread*, but you are so right. So easy to spot. And they usually get around quite a bit. Have you noticed that? How they go around crapping on everything nice or important?

[RedCappedBandit]

89. Thread is full of ignorance.

IDK How it was years ago, but if a bully fights back these days, HE is the one who gets fucked over and kicked out of school.
Adults don't give two shits about the kids getting picked on and often join in with the bullies.