Over A Hundred Detainees Died in US Custody, At Least 27 Were Tortured to Death

[tekisui]

From June 18th, 2008:

At today's House Judiciary Subcommittee on Civil Rights hearing on torture, Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff to Colin Powell, told Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) that over 100 detainees have died in U.S. custody, with up to 27 of these declared homicides:

NADLER: Your testimony said 100 detainees have died in detention; do you believe the 25 of those were in effect murdered?

WILKERSON: Mr. Chairman, I think the number's actually higher than that now. Last time I checked it was 108.

NADLER: Colonel Wilkerson, in your prepared testimony, you write that "as I compiled my dossier for Secretary Powell, and as I did further research, and as my views grew firmer and firmer I had to reread that memo (of February 7, 2002), "I needed to balance in my own mind the overwhelming evidence that my own government had sanctioned abuse and torture, which at its worse had led to the murder of 25 detainees and at least 100 detainee deaths. We have murder at least 25 people in detention. That was the clear low point of the evidence." Your testimony said 100 detainees have died in detention; do you believe the 25 of those were in effect murdered?

WILKERSON: Mr. Chairman, I think the number's actually higher than that now. Last time I checked it was 108, and the total number that were declared homicides by the military services, or by the CIA, or others doing investigations, CID, and so forth -- was 25, 26, 27.

NADLER: Were declared homicides?

WILKERSON: Right, starting as early as December 2001 in Afghanistan.

NADLER: And these were homicides committed by people engaged in interrogations?

WILKERSON: Or in guarding prisoners, or something like that. People who were in detention.

NADLER: They were in detention, not trying to escape or anything, declared homicides by our own authorities.



more: http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/18/ex-state-dept-official-hundreds-of-detainees-died-in-us-custody-at-least-25-murdered/

[lazer47]

1. Now don't go there!! some on this board think we are supposed to

be patient and keep quiet,, The administration has an agenda about how to approach this and we aren't supposed to know yet,, Be patient all will be well,, it will all be taken care of in time..

[Name removed]

3. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lostnotforgotten]

22. Not Holding My Breath

eom

[alfredo]

62. Have you called or written to your representatives? Have you written letters

to the editor? If you have, do it again. Your local online edition of the paper might have a comment section along with letters and editorials. Use every opportunity.

Freeway blog.

[scentopine]

70. so true

The people own this issue not the politicians. If it was left up to politicians and image makers, we'd be suffering four years with McPain. Keep the pressure, keep it loud and demand justice. We have created a dangerous precedent - amnesty for wire tapping, amnesty for wall street, amnesty for torture. This is about the laws of common justice that you and I have to live under. **** Keep up the Pressure ***

[enough]

2. Thank you for bringing this back.

[Stuart G]

5. Second this motion...thank you for bringing this back too, K and R

[ThomWV]

4. K&R

[Solly Mack]

6. K&R

:thumbsup:

[lostnotforgotten]

7. K&R

eom

[Stuart G]

8. How many of these do you think were innocent, just caught up by mistake? nt

[tekisui]

9. One is too many.

But, we know that many held in Abu Ghraib were innocent. Many were released with no charge. Same with Gitmo.

[blindpig]

10. No telling now, is there?

Dead men tell no tales. Very convenient.

No matter, no use crying over spilled milk, got to move forward.......

No Way In Fucking Hell.

[n2doc]

14. Doesn't matter if they were all "guilty"

None received a trial. No prisoner is supposed to be treated in that manner even after conviction. They could all have been directly responsible for 9/11 and it would not make what happened to them any less a crime.

[MasonJar]

29. Totally Agree!!!!!!!!!!!

[yardwork]

37. Violatons of U.S. and international laws.

And not very Christian behavior, either, for an administration that was supposedly so "godly."

Just a complete fuck up from start to finish.

[Enthusiast]

65. And this is the point. +1

The American people have become so jaded, so used to accepting criminal behavior by those in elected office that they can't even generate outrage over this.

Yet every day we hear Glenn Beck and the assorted right wing asshole liars claim that President Obama is a commie. Cheney is on Faux News telling the people that torture gave us essential information and this misinformation even dominates the airwaves.

This country is fucked up, brothers and sisters, everyone must see it for what it is.

[defendandprotect]

63. All of them . . .

but at any rate, if someone is tortured the info is inadmissable . . .

and rightly so!

I think at one point we had 140,000 prisoners?

And these people survived all of this to hear that no one would be held responsible!!



And I'm saying ALL of them because IMO this was MIHOP . . .

[pleah]

11. K&R

[Hubert Flottz]

12. You damned right I want to recommend this thread!

:kick:

[JohnnyLib2]

13. K & R

[Moochy]

15. K&R

And surprise! What, no hyper-partisan cheerleaders, dlc hacks or torture amnesia apologists have anything to say about this...

[Orwellian_Ghost]

16. K&R

"I've said to the people that we don't torture, and we don't."

- George Bush, Sept. 5th 2006 to Katie Couric


"This agency does not do torture. Torture does not work. We use lawful capabilities to collect vital information and we do it in a variety of unique and innovative ways, all of which are legal and none of which are torture."

- CIA Director Porter Goss

When asked by CNN’s Candy Crowley if “there’s anything that’s happened in the past 7 1/2 years that the U.S. needs to apologize for in terms of foreign policy?”

Obama responded by saying, “No, I don’t believe in the U.S. apologizing. As I said I think the war in Iraq was a mistake. We didn’t keep our eye on the ball in Afghanistan. But, you know, hindsight is 20/20, and I’m much more interested in looking forward rather than looking backwards.” The United States, Obama told Crowley, “remains overwhelmingly a force of good in the world.”

[Hubert Flottz]

18. I’m much more interested in looking forward rather than looking backwards.”

I'll bet every criminal in every prison in this country would like to have the same chance to walk away from their past criminal records untouched and without retribution.

"I’m much more interested in looking forward rather than looking backwards.” Sound like anyone else you can think of?

[Moochy]

19. translation from Weasel Speak:

That phrase is Weasel Speak for "Nothing to See Here, Move Along"

[Demeter]

35. Bush Prefers "Sadism"

It's classy and perverted. Waterboarding somebody 183 times had to be for the pleasure of it.

[UpInArms]

17. Afghan prisoners beaten to death at US military interrogation base

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/mar/07/usa.afghanistan

'Blunt force injuries' cited in murder ruling

Duncan Campbell in Los Angeles
The Guardian, Friday 7 March 2003 08.21 GMT

Two prisoners who died while being held for interrogation at the US military base in Afghanistan had apparently been beaten, according to a military pathologist's report. A criminal investigation is now under way into the deaths which have both been classified as homicides.

The deaths have led to calls for an inquiry into what interrogation techniques are being used at the base where it is believed the al-Qaida leader, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, is now also being held. Former prisoners at the base claim that detainees are chained to the ceiling, shackled so tightly that the blood flow stops, kept naked and hooded and kicked to keep them awake for days on end.

The two men, both Afghans, died last December at the US forces base in Bagram, north of Kabul, where prisoners have been held for questioning. The autopsies found they had suffered "blunt force injuries" and classified both deaths as homicides.

A spokesman for the Pentagon said yesterday it was not possible to discuss the details of the case because of the proceeding investigation. If the investigation finds that the prisoners had been unlawfully killed during interrogation, it could lead to both civil and military prosecutions. He added that it was not clear whether only US personnel had had access to the men.

One of the dead prisoners, known only as Dilawar, died as a result of "blunt force injuries to lower extremities complicating coronary artery disease", according to the death certificate signed by Major Elizabeth Rouse, a pathologist with the Washington-based Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, which operates under the auspices of the defence department. The dead man was aged 22 and was a farmer and part-time taxi-driver. He was said to have had an advanced heart condition and blocked arteries.

...more...

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. And some of that happened without memos OKing torture

Saying "a bit of light torture is legal" just made it more likely people would be murdered.

[spanone]

21. i can only imagine how many future terrorists bu$h* and cheney have recruited

this cannot be ignored

[bluesmail]

23. This is a definite K&R

[Soylent Brice]

24. K&R

[democrank]

25. Thank you, tekisui.

Prosecute!

[merh]

26. Political opponents to the republicans, political prisoners of the

bush regime remain in prison yet the murderers and the abusers and those that participate in the conspiracy to cover up the truth and perpetuate the lies walk free, making public appearances, giving interviews to the MSM, accepting bogus awards and serving on the bench.

Yup, the USofA is screwed up and patience is not the answer, it's time to take steps to see that justice is had. We are a nation of laws and no one is above the law and no one should be allowed to pervert the law for their political purposes.

[L. Coyote]

27. REC #50. It only takes a few "NOT Good Germans" to shine a light for all to see the crimes

and then the lynch mob gets really mad if they have been lied to.

[readmoreoften]

28. All in the past my friend, all in the past.

And what I do to you today, tomorrow that will be in the past as well.

[jimshoes]

30. If any of these fuckheads had their life savings

stolen in an identity theft case, none of them would be saying let's just move foreword. They'd be screaming at the top of their lungs to get the people who stole their money. This torture and murder by torture is, if anything, worse than a mere case of theft and should be being investigated with all the weight and force the DOJ and/or a special prosecutor with full subpoena power and a hefty budget. These scum are just waiting in the wings for their chance to get back into power. That can't be allowed to happen.

[Hannah Bell]

38. yes, it's ludicrous. k&r.

[babylonsister]

31. Rec'd for more eyes and outrage. nt

[me b zola]

32. K&R

[Junkdrawer]

33. Did they "know too much"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5503402&mesg_id=5503402

[TWiley]

34. K&R ..... Mr. Obama is so smart by releasing the CIA memo's

They will be read in public and an outcry for prosecution will follow. No secret committee will be able to cover it up.

[Occam Bandage]

36. K&R

[Mari333]

39. k n r nt

[Echo In Light]

40. Fuckin ugly

[RedCloud]

41. More proof we are not the good guys.

When some soldiers refuse to kill, they are taken out and shot as traitors. Real bullets for refusing to kill.

When others decide to cowardly kill bound and gagged prisoners for the pleasure of it, they get medals.

Symbolic medals from our media. I am tired of hearing "loved ones" when referring to those returning from war. Some will harm themselves or others. Many need help, but nobody who tortures another person gets my support.

Apply all laws to them. They made us into the bad guys.

[defendandprotect]

42. LOVE, LOVE NADLER ... but imagine what it took for those "authorities" to confirm that

any of these were HOMICIDES!!!

How absolutely barbarian this era in America has been!!!

How can we ensure that Cheney, Rumsfeld and the Shrub -- Gonzales and the loyal gang of

lawyers dealing in illegalities for their masters -- will be the end of the line.

And, as I see it, this is Nixon-Reagan-Bush, Sr. continuance . . . !!!

I do think that after the attack on Reagan, Bush became president --

and that pattern repeated with Cheney/Bush -- simply because was Bush was vile enough,

he might not have been as inclined or able enough to pull off the murderous crap that

Cheney did!

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Mass murder

Yeah, looking forward is probably not going to fly with that many corpses in view.

[chill_wind]

44. June 18th, 2008

Where was America, even at this late hour?

[Usrename]

45. It's all just a big fraternity prank, we need to move on.

:sarcasm:

[Uncle Joe]

46. Kicked and recommended for the corporate media coverage to come of this,

instead of the B.S. lite propaganda they've been promoting on this issue.

Thanks for the thread, tekisui.

[Lorien]

47. So is homocide via torture criminal enough for anyone?

if this happened in the civilian world here at home the politicians would be lining up to call for the killer's heads!

[JMDEM]

48. For us Baby Boomer Boys

You remember playing army as a kid? Sticks for guns? Americans versus Germans?

You remember watching "Combat" and "12 O'Clock High" on TV?

You remember why the Americans were so vastly superior to the Germans or the Japanese or the Italians in our minds?

Because we were humane and they weren't. Because we gave cigarettes and candy to our captives, while they tortured and murdered their captives. We were right, humane, just, and God was on our side because of this.

Now, of course I have no idea if this is how it really was. Probably -- sometimes yes, sometimes no. But at least the ideal was there.

Then we started getting into wars where these ideals were abandoned or went astray. And when this happened, the people we were "saving" hated us. Then the whole population became the enemy. And we were no longer saving them. We were occupying them. Just like the Germans. Just like the Japanese. And doing the same things. We were no longer the good guys. How sad, for everybody.

[ASUliberal]

49. My God

[Batgirl]

50. It was so unbelievably frustrating to live through the Bush admin. knowing it was run by evil fucks

and will be unbelievably heartbreaking if they are not held accountable for their despicable torture policies.

[Maat]

51. There is no legal or moral justification for this - period.

It was, and is, completely unacceptable - this conduct - for any reason.

Shame on U.S. officials for not punishing those who authorized this or made it happen.

[leveymg]

52. I'd be more comfortable reccing this if Powell hadn't lied us into Iraq, and Nadler didn't try to

get us to provoke Iran into war.

I recced it anyway. This information needs to get out there, and sometimes good people can do bad things, and later try to make up for it. Let's hope that's the case here.

[McCamy Taylor]

53. What are we? Chile under Pinochet? Oh, I forgot, we are only Pinochet's banker.

[tomm2thumbs]

54. K&R

[tomm2thumbs]

55. Cheney can get a LOT of valuable, America-saving information from a dead man/woman/child

Is this the memo that Cheney wants to be brought back and released to the public? Careful what you wish for, eh Dicky Boy? Another old timer who forgets the internet doesn't shred itself like every memo he likely wrote on the matter.

Cheney is human filth with a tie

[Mira]

56. The ball has begun to slowly roll and gather speed. I am, today, for the first

time hopeful that I will live to see the bastards in jail.

[jeff30997]

57. "the total number that were declared homicides by the military services, or by the CIA, or others.."

The number that were declared homicides.I would say that if they are admitting that 108 peoples were murdered and 27 were tortured to death then the real numbers must be way higher than that.

The thought that the vast majority of those responsible for those atrocities will get away with it and that at best a couple of scapegoats will be sacrificed to make it look like justice have been done makes me sick.Literally.

[wroberts189]

58. Just 27? ... I have serious doubts. nt

[tuckessee]

59. This is just the tip of the iceberg. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

60. Looks like the pot will be coming to a boil soon.

[TBF]

61. K&R n/t

[muryan]

64. Misleading headline

The deaths didn't result necessarily from torture. If I recall a marine was just convicted of murdering 4 detainees in Iraq a few years back. It wasn't during questioning, he just offed them while being held. So the phrase "tortured to death" isn't exactly applicable to these cases (I'm guessing most).

Not a difference punitively though, lock 'em up for murder.

[bridgit]

66. So far less than good you cannot see it from here...

[Enthusiast]

67. K&R

Knowing how this cabal operates I am tempted to come to the conclusion that all this faux outrage and tea bagging by Fox News was just more smokescreen to divert attention from real issues.

[Thor_MN]

68. Oh come on, how could anyone possibly know, in the heat of the moment, on the ground, making

tough decisions, that waterboarding someone for the 130th time is torture and a crime? :eyes:

[Hawkowl]

69. M*THR F*CKING NAZIS

Absolutely unbelievable goddamn mother fucking Nazis! We need a new Nuremberg war crimes tribunal. These accursed bastards need to be tried for war crimes and treason to the American people. Life sentences with no chance of parole when convicted.