These pro-torture people make me sick

[JonLP24]

One said on the Cafferty file, something similar as, boo-hoo, Sheikh Mohammed had water dumped on his face. Another said maybe on the 267th time he would tell us where Bin Laden is. I understand the suspects are probaly bad people, but we have truly bad people in this country and else where since homo sapians existed. We don't just water board murder suspects til they give us a confession. The confession would be thrown out. I guess the constitution isn't important anymore and the ends justify the means.

[vadawg]

1. my take is that if someone knew were someone was who had my daughter

then i would for sure waterboard and anything else to protect my child, so i am not going to judge the operatives who mayby did what they did to protect what they feel is their family (the USA).

[ixion]

4. violence begats violence

'nuff said.

[BlueJazz]

7. Yep...You got it. Good, Decent people act like Good, Decent people.

[vadawg]

8. unfortunately the world is full of bad people who prey apon the weak

sometimes the sheepdog has to bloody the wolf to protect the sheep, and i think that most fathers would torture someone to rescue their child in a heartbeat.

[tkmorris]

20. "sometimes the sheepdog has to bloody the wolf to protect the sheep"

Seriously? That's your argument? Oh my dear Aunt Sally...

[vadawg]

21. what you dont think that sometimes the sheepdog has to fight back

or do you think that the wolf can be reasoned with.

[ixion]

23. by your own logic, we are the predator, not the prey

or, by your metaphor, we are the wolf, not the sheepdog.

[JonLP24]

6. I would use whatever I did use to find out he knows who has her

And then use those same tactics to find out where she is. It couldn't of been waterboarding to find out. Otherwise you would've been waterboarding random people to find out who knows who has her.

[walldude]

10. That's what you call protecting people? Torture?

First of all it's been proven that torture does not work. Second of all it's also proven that you get better and more information by treating your prisoners with respect, give them medical care, food, smokes, whatever.

You say it's ok to do it to protect your child. Well then you better start torturing every pedophile in America, because your child is in danger. You better start torturing every teenager in America because you never know when one could possibly be another Columbine shooter.

Here's another way to look at it. They say they tortured people to get information about possible attacks. What if no attacks were being planned at the moment? How do you determine what is the circumstance where people should be tortured? There are threats everwhere, every minute of every day. You thing torturing people is the best way to combat those threats?

[vadawg]

15. okay you hold your belief ill hold mine that if needed i would torture in a nanosecond to protect

my child, we have different outlooks on life and different experiences.

[TexasObserver]

18. Thankfully, you'll never be in a position to make such decisions.

Your notion is the world's oldest rationalization for committing all manner of atrocities.

[vadawg]

19. i hope i never have to rely apon stuff from the past to protect my children as well

i pray that i will never.

[Seldona]

22. That isn't the issue.

The issue is, should that reaction be LEGAL. It is a natural response to want to protect one's child, whatever the cost. But one should be prepared to face the consequences of doing so.

What's next? Grainy footage of you torturing the accused in a stadium full of people while the police look on? Fucking spooky. Besides, the argument is complete bs on it's face. Like military, intelligence, as well as private contractors, tortured people because they believed we are all their children and it would protect us?

Seriously?

[CJCRANE]

24. Um...but there is no way of knowing in advance

if the person you are torturing knows the information you are looking for. So you're back to square one.

[JonLP24]

25. I think you hit on the head right there

In the scenario the poster described, he would have to have some way of finding out he does know something. While if you're information gathering techniques tipped you off that this guy knows, I'd look at how do you know and use those same techniques to find the daughter. I don't know if you are understanding what I'm saying, I don't. But I know what I'm thinking and we believe we are somewhat on the same page.

[CJCRANE]

26. I know what you mean.

The poster's scenario works well in '24' but doesn't make sense in the real world.

[tjwash]

27. Dude...turn of "24," put down the kool-aid, and step slowly away from the TV

Trust me...you'll thank yourself later.

[hobbit709]

2. Those gungho clowns wouldn't last 30 seconds if it was done to them.

[Occam Bandage]

3. "maybe on the 267th time he would tell us where Bin Laden is."

I hear that terrorists come with an internal drowning reflex sensor pre-installed. If that's activated a certain number of times (it varies from one to five hundred with each terrorist), then you'll unlock the Secret Terror Information compartment in their abdomen. Don't give up! Each bucket o' water is another bucket closer to the magic number!

[walldude]

11. I don't know, I heard that they got the truth

out of Kalid on try number 134. The subsequent sessions were just confirming.

[ixion]

5. yeah, me too

It shows just how ugly we can be as a species, in my opinion.

[bbinacan]

9. As an FYI,

one of my best friends was a SERE instructor at the C level (Seals et al attend this level). I talked to him a couple of years ago about it and learned that we put our own people through such things as water boarding. I asked if he had been water boarded or taught it. He said they did that at the CA. school. Though he would not give me details, he said that what he had been through and later instructed was scarier.

[JonLP24]

12. I'm sure there is. There's torture in the Maricopa County Jail

A jail ran by Sheriff Joe, if you don't believe me about the torture then just look up the 1 - 4 million paid in lawsuits and the number of pending lawsuits as well.

[jody]

13. Agree re " pro-torture people make me sick" but shouldn't we also be sickened by policies that kill

innocent people in Afghanistan and Pakistan?

[JonLP24]

14. I am

I still remember the first few days of the invasion and we made a mistake and bombed civilians instead and RWers on college basketball message boards(It was march madness during the time) calling it "collateral damage". So believe me it bothers me to a point where I still remember the earliest civilians getting killed. I'm capable of being outraged over more things then once.

[jody]

17. Agree, my wife and I participated in anti-war demonstrations before Bush invaded Iraq and I'm angry

because innocent people are dying this very moment because we are fighting wars we can't possibly win.

[rrneck]

16. Even if it worked

it would be wrong. The need to torture somebody to extract information quickly to avert disaster only happens in the movies.