Zelikow is turning on Cheney!

[seemslikeadream]

On Rachel right now

[malaise]

1. LOL

I just started one saying Zelikow jumps ship.

[polichick]

2. Big news!!

[liberalmuse]

3. What does this mean? - Nevermind. I shall Google.

Who is Zelikow?

[horseshoecrab]

6. former bush admin official

was "astonished by the torture memos..."

This guy is jumping ship.


horseshoecrab

[NYC_SKP]

9. here:

http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/04/21/the_olc_torture_memos_thoughts_from_a_dissenter

[seemslikeadream]

16. He ran the 9/11 Commission

as far as I am concerned

[bleever]

33. He was the BFEE's mole,

as you well know.

This is pretty shocking, huh?

[seemslikeadream]

46. Yea this is bizzare he's Condi's special friend but "torture" no way!

[bleever]

61. And now we know about Zelikow's destroyed anti-torture opinion letter,

which likely kept him out of the torture stove-pipe, on top of all the other reasons they had to withhold the torture tapes.

Oh what a tangled web they wove...

[Tangerine LaBamba]

65. This is HUGH

I'm SERIES!11!!!!

This is so big, it's going to take a bit before it sinks in.

Rachel scooped everyone.

I find it very interesting that he chose her show to make his appearance. A real message to the rightwingnut fucks: "I'm with the liberals now, and did you know that she's a lesbian?"

This is big .............................

[deminks]

4. Woo Hoo!

:woohoo:

[Sedona]

5. wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_D._Zelikow

[Stinky The Clown]

11. Y'ever notice how these right wing fucks look like central casting's image of WWII Nazis?

Why izzat?

[tridim]

20. In that pic he looks like Colbert with botox.

[Bumblebee]

27. since he happens to be Jewish, this is not the most apt -- or high-minded -- comparison

why even bother?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

29. The irony?

He's Jewish.

Naw, he just looks like a nice clean-cut Republican boy.

Who's seen the light. His appearance on Rachel's show is HUGH!!111111!!!!! I sat here, dumbstruck. Couldn't really believe it.

He's pissed.

Pass the popcorn .....................................

[malaise]

45. He looked more frightened

than pissed to me. He'd better have saved a copy of his memo. :popcorn:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

49. He's got a copy -

we learn fast in law school - "Do right and fear no man. Don't write, and fear no woman."

But that had to do with adultery, as I recall.

Naw, we keep copies of everything, mostly because we're so enamored of our deathless legal prose.....

[malaise]

62. LOL

So who's most likely to jump ship next?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

64. Someone low-level, is my guess ..........

Someone who's going to come forth with a story about his research - perhaps a young legal assistant - being rejected because it didn't support the proposition they were trying t advance - that torture was legal.

One thing for sure is that someone WILL come forward....

[struggle4progress]

82. He says he doesn't:

State Dept Lawyer: White House Tried To Destroy My Alternative Memo On Torture
By Zachary Roth - April 21, 2009, 2:06PM

... Trying to get a copy of the memo, we contacted Zelikow. He declined to add much to his blog post, but did say, via email:

The memo I mentioned was highly classified at the time. So any extant copies, or drafts, would only be in an appropriate government safe. Any extant copies at State would be in their archival facilities for top secret papers from my files, or possibly Bellinger's files, or Secretary Rice's files ...

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/04/state_dept_lawyer_white_house_tried_to_destroy_my.php

It sorta like, y'know, "Rilly, ya onnah, da thugs broked into mah house, moyded mah wifey, and buried her undah a new concrete floah in da basements. And I tried an I tried an I tried ta call da cops, but dey erased all da tapes, and I wrote dem lettah afta lettah but dey true dem all away. Please ya onnah, I ain't got nuttin ta do wid diss"

[librechik]

7. and the house of cards starts to fall

now Condi will confirm and turn over to save her shoe collection

[malaise]

15. Rachel asked the most important question

Why didn't you resign?

[merh]

32. what did he say?

what was his response?

[horseshoecrab]

47. He said words to the effect

that he felt that he needed to stay in order to fight/offer a counter viewpoint to the prevailing crazy torture policy. That's what I understood him to be saying anyway....

He spoke about his alternative (memo) to the insane torture memos. Apparently the white house tried to destroy all copies of his memo, but some remain(ed). Someone catch me on this if I'm mistaken, please.


horseshoecrab

[merh]

68. I suppose that makes sense, to remain to be a voice of

reason.

thank you

[horseshoecrab]

74. Wellll....

That's his story anyway.

I think that as someone pointed out here or in another thread, his covering memo was originally written to offer cover to Condi Rice. But... If it gives him a way to talk about what's really happened, then that'll work!


horseshoecrab

[merh]

You know what I wonder

Why did he accept the confessions of the tortured as a member of the 9/11 commission? He knew we were torturing before it was leaked/made public.

[malaise]

75. Here's the link

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#30335366

Watch it all

[merh]

76. thank you, I will

[malaise]

78. You're welcome

:fistbump:

[merh]

80. .

:fistbump:

[NYC_SKP]

8. Zelikow's article posted this morning:

http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/04/21/the_olc_torture_memos_thoughts_from_a_dissenter

:patriot:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

40. If one only reads that last paragraph,

you can see where the guy was leading.

This is devastating to those fucks. Absolutely devastating.

Good.

[horseshoecrab]

58. yes...

the url again is:
http://shadow.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/04/21/the_olc_torture_memos_thoughts_from_a_dissenter

"The underlying absurdity of the administration's position can be summarized this way. Once you get to a substantive compliance analysis for "cruel, inhuman, and degrading" you get the position that the substantive standard is the same as it is in analogous U.S. constitutional law. So the OLC must argue, in effect, that the methods and the conditions of confinement in the CIA program could constitutionally be inflicted on American citizens in a county jail.

In other words, Americans in any town of this country could constitutionally be hung from the ceiling naked, sleep deprived, water-boarded, and all the rest -- if the alleged national security justification was compelling. I did not believe our federal courts could reasonably be expected to agree with such a reading of the Constitution."


This is written by one of those within the administration. Someone who was not unfamiliar with how the deals go down in Washington. I too believe that this is potentially devastating. I suppose he could be apologizing tomorrow, so you never know.


horseshoecrab

[leveymg]

59. Dissenter? That's a good laugh - PZ is the ultimate cover-up guy.

Did this guy ever threaten his own priviliged position to dissent or even jump ship to tell the truth? Never.

He's a self-interested bureaucratic yes-man who's now trying to change his image.

This is really rich.

[JerseygirlCT]

10. This is very interesting, indeed. nt

[Catshrink]

12. Hannity and Rush are the only people backing ChEEney.

And John King with that softball interview. Are any *istas on ChEEney's side? I haven't heard anything out of Rummy, Feith, Addington, and the rest. Rove speaks -- but for *, not ChEEney. ChEEney wasn't invited to the "party" in Texas for *.

[Cha]

21. And, john king, chip reid,

and chuck todd to name a few more mediawhores.

[Catshrink]

22. Chuck Todd?

The others, yes, but I wouldn't lump old Chuckie in with them. Did you know he went to the Nats game with Gibbs the other night? It was reporter here on DU by an eyewitness.

[tridim]

24. Beck supports him too

But I think Beck wants to have sex with him.

[Catshrink]

50. Or cry on his shoulder.

[burning rain]

63. is there some specific point in pronouncing his surname "ChEEney"?

Chris Matthews has done that a lot, too.

[Catshrink]

77. That's how ChEEney says it.

It has a sneering sound to it seems to me that it is appropriate to pronounce his name that way. And I must admit there is a fair amount of this too:

:sarcasm:

[Junkdrawer]

13. Mr. "Fix the 9/11 Commission" Zelikow....

This could get interesting...

[seemslikeadream]

17. yes!!

:hi:

[sattahipdeep]

14. So Cofer Black and Erik Prince walk huh?

:crazy:

[seemslikeadream]

18. (*_*)

:hi:

[seemslikeadream]

19. I can coverup 9/11 but no torture!

:rofl:

[OneGrassRoot]

23. Please tell me he said that....

I can't watch so I'm following here second by second. LOL.

Seriously, does this mean that there's a chance of not only torture stuff coming to the fore soon, but also some new revelations about 9/11 and coverups there?

Is this guy the one to unravel both simultaneously???

How big of a deal is this? It sure seems big by following the thread. :)

[seemslikeadream]

28. I have to watch the rerun cause I was posting here and then I got a phone call but here's something

He talked about this


http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/04/state_dept_lawyer_white_house_tried_to_destroy_my.php

State Dept Lawyer: White House Tried To Destroy My Alternative Memo On Torture
By Zachary Roth - April 21, 2009, 2:06PM
As David noted over at TPM, there was some potentially big news in a blog post that was written this morning over at Foreign Policy by Philip Zelikow, a top State Department lawyer under Condoleezza Rice.

Zelikow wrote that, in 2005, he had written a memo on the legality of harsh interrogation techniques that expressed an "alternative view" to the OLC memos. He continued:

[malaise]

25. Yep

Rats see trouble - men are jumping overboard.
Remember cornered rats are very dangerous. Where are the other rats - what are they up to these days?

[Junkdrawer]

26. How many years before some biggies crack because of the tension...

of such insane rationalizations? :shrug:

[malaise]

42. How long before we see some men falling from high rise buildings

some real suicides and some others having 'accidents' on aircraft.

[Junkdrawer]

48. That's the safety net, isn't it? And THAT depends on the power and reach...

of men who are moving AWAY from power.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

51. They already murdered a friend of mine -

a former high-placed White House staffer - one of Kissinger's boys - who was preparing to go public with his criticism of the invasion of Iraq, something he violently opposed, claiming that the US had no idea how the Middle East mindset worked.

Gus was found dead near the loading ramp of his Watergate apartment, and the coroner concluded, without any evidence at all, that it was a suicide.

He was buried before any of his friends knew what had happened. The Post carried the story of his death, as I recall, a couple of weeks after it happened.

I loved him. We had been friends for many decades, and I never for one second believed he took his own life.

http://tinyurl.com/576a6u

[malaise]

57. Damn

Time to reopen investigations on a lot of these so called suicides.

[horseshoecrab]

67. ohhh...

I'm so sorry Tangerine. How awful.



horseshoecrab

[Tangerine LaBamba]

70. Thanks, horse.................

I cannot tell you what a great guy Gus was. Just an absolute doll, and a genius, to boot. A deeply closeted gay man who would give you the shirt off his back. From a very wealthy family, he left the bulk of his estate to establish scholarships for physics students at George Washington University.

Gus was the guy who brokered the deal for Air France to fly the Concorde into and out of the US. So, he invited me and my then-husband along on the inaugural flight. We flew to Paris, attended a luncheon where Gus was was given the Legion of Honor, and flew back. And he was giddy and silly and wonderful on both flights, the perfect host.

I miss him ..............

[horseshoecrab]

72. I can only imagine

He sounds like a wonderful and guy and a great and good friend Tangerine.

I can just picture the giddiness. The Concorde was such a triumph of the time! It sounds like a grand experience in a series of beautiful moments in being Gus's friend.

You honor him with your posts here on DU.

:hug:


horseshoecrab

[stillcool]

69. How sad....I was just thinking about..

Steve Kangas earlier.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

71. Too many suicides .........

That scientist in the UK, any number of people here in the States, including the DC madame and one of her girls, both deaths by hanging. Women don't commit suicide by hanging, but women who are drugged are unable to resist while they're being strung up. Both women had stories to tell, we all know that.

I will go to my grave believing that the BFEE was behind all these deaths. All of them....................

[malaise]

81. Paul Wellstone and his family too

Same here.

[TheCowsCameHome]

30. Meanwhile Darth continues to rip the wings off of flies and drown little ducks.

He is a cold, heartless, uncaring prick.

Nothing bothers this monster.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

34. He's priming the pump ............

He'll have a book coming out. He's stirring the shit to make sure he stays in the public eye so as to get some good press for his book and get really good sales.

Surprise! Cheney's now a whole different kind of whore.

At his age, it's good that he's trying new things.

How come, with all those cardiac problems, he's still alive? That bothers me, the unfairness of it all ........................

[babylonsister]

36. He's also trying to save his own ass; he might see the writing

on the wall.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

37. How do you see this

as saving his ass?

[babylonsister]

53. Zelikow? I've been pushing what he's said since yesterday.

There's three different related threads in here, and there are opinions he's trying to save his butt.
Makes sense to me, or he's just an honorable guy? I don't know enough about him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5505688

[Tangerine LaBamba]

55. I was talking about Cheney -

not Zelikow.

Oh, yeah, I agree with you about Zelikow. No question.

[TheCowsCameHome]

39. Maybe it'll be published posthumously.

That would be a happy ending.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

43. Don't toy with me, The Cows ...........

I'm fragile ........................

[DemReadingDU]

31. Would we ever know about this if McCain had become President?

Somehow if the Permanent Republican majority had prevailed, I don't think so.

[leveymg]

60. We knew about this four or five years ago.

Only a thrown election got in the way.

[seemslikeadream]

35. ZELIKOW CATASTROPHIC TERRORISM:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuoQZkBFj9A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XQWBQKsqBU
Philip Zelikow, 9/11 insider, is scheduled to speak at Chautauqua Institution on August 9, 2007 (western New York, near Jamestown).

In 1998, Philip Zelikow published an article in Foreign Affairs, the journal of the Council on Foreign Relations, entitled CATASTROPHIC TERRORISM: Imagining the Transformative Event. Nearly two years later, PNAC picked up the CFR-Zelikow language, saying that the desired transformation "is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event -- like a new Pearl Harbor..."

In part one of this series, we hear from author Webster Tarpley, Professor Graeme MacQueen (religious studies, McMaster University, ret.), Ken Jenkins (filmmaker), and Peter Dale Scott, author.

Zelikow, hired as a Bush II transition team member for his expertise on al-Qaeda (according to Karen Hughes), didn't want to hear anything about al-Qaeda from Richard Clarke, chief counter-terrorism expert on George W. Bush's national security council. Similarly, John Ashcroft at the Dept. of Justice didn't want to hear anything about al-Qaeda before 9/11 from Thomas Picard, acting director of the FBI. In these and other instances, Zelikow as executive director of the 9/11 Commission, suborned perjury, Webster Tarpley charges.

Tarpley reveals Zelikow's cover-up role in the Able Danger FBI effort to expose "al-Qaeda" cells. Prof. Graeme MacQueen calls attention to Zelikow's unique role in predicting then explicating the consequences of "the transformative event" as head of the commission charged with investigating the catastrophic terrorism of 9/11. Ken Jenkins and Peter Dale Scott note that Zelikow's expertise is in creating and exploiting public myths, and that Zelikow's links to the neo-cons date to the early 1980s. The 9/11 investigation was itself an inside job.

[seemslikeadream]

38. "Why didn't Phil Zelikow make reviewing vital NSA documents a Commission priority?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=194153

[seemslikeadream]

41. Zelikow IMAGINING THE TRANSFORMING EVENT December 1998

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=188521

[Flying Dream Blues]

44. K&R... nt

[sattahipdeep]

52. hopefully more will turn

:hi:

[DemoTex]

54. This is exactly why Cheney is panicked!

He KNOWS that they will never go after Bu$h. Cheney .. he's de man! The microscope focuses on him. And his self-inflicted hell just got a bit hotter.

[underpants]

56. Who is Zelikow?

:shrug:

[Tangerine LaBamba]

66. Read the thread -

some very interesting links there.

[babylonsister]

73. He was Rachel's first guest tonight. Here's

a thread with a few links in it about him.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5505688

[malaise]

79. Rachel link

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#30335366