Miss California, you didn't lose because of your "opinion"

[KingOfLostSouls]

you lost because you're wrong.


thank god you didn't go on to represent the united states of america


apartheid is NOT american.



quit looking for sympathy because not everyone wants to support hatred and prejudice.

[liberalmuse]

1. She's a dipshit not much smarter than that Miss South Carolina from awhile back.

And she did not keep her poise when answering a rather simple question. And she was WRONG. 'Opposite marriage'. I mean, holy fuck!

[DoctorMyEyes]

9. That's been pissing me off all day

Every interview and clip I've seen on TV today only shows the end of her answer - where she says what she "believes" and then she gets to look like a freakin' martyr for sacrificing "her" crown for personal integrity. Fact is - she flubbed the beginning of her answer and sounded like an idiot. That she was a bigoted idiot is only a small part of her overall idiot problem.

[polmaven]

63. Maybe in her country

that's what they call it.

[Richard Steele]

2. Yup. K&R

[bluestateguy]

3. Perez Hilton (is that REALLY his name?) did not help matters

He made it sound like she deserved to lose because of her views, as opposed to the clumsy and inarticulate way in which she expressed them.

[tabasco]

4. Her views are hateful.

So what if she lost because of them?

[bluestateguy]

8. Careful what you wish for

because then you are saying that it would be OK for a judge to vote another contestant down if she says she supported gay marriage. I mean, hey, that's hateful toward heterosexual married people and an "abomination" against God! Maybe a judge thinks that a contestant who expresses pro-choice views is being hateful to the unborn and hence deserves to lose.

I mean, if you say that it is permissible to score down a candidate because of her views, then that is what it could come to.

[tabasco]

10. That doesn't make any sense.

Supporting full rights for one group does not detract from the rights of others.

Try again.

[bluestateguy]

15. Of course it doesn't make sense

Which is exactly why we should leave politics and political questions out of these paegents.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

5. Agreed ...............

He made it personal, a deadly error, and a detriment to the gay marriage movement.

But, it's just a blip, and her stupidity is now on display for the world to see.

"My country," she said, the blithering ignoramnus twit ................................

[KingOfLostSouls]

7. she DID deserve to lose because of her views

if a girl can be disqualified for say, appearing in racy photos, then why shouldn't someone be disqualified for supporting apartheid and inequality?


I'd rather have a Miss USA who might have had a drink or two in college than one who believes in apartheid.


one is life. the other is entrenched hatred.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. She does deserve to lose because of her views.

No way the bigot deserves a scholarship, or any other sort of recognition.

[paulsby]

13. our president holds the same view

and made it clear during the run that he is against legalizing gay marriage.

the double standard is astounding.

fwiw, i'm for gay marriage.

[bluestateguy]

17. She doesn't have to get elected president in a nation that still opposes full marriage 60%-40%

That will change in time, but that's the way it is now.

[paulsby]

19. yea, but

1) if he is misrepresenting his position to get elected, is that BETTER than somebody who holds that position and speaks her mind and damn the consequences

2) he is already ELECTED president. so, if he HONESTLY (and you are speculating) supports legalizing gay marriage, then the HONEST thing to do would be to say "ok, i really support gay marriage. now that i am elected, i will work for it"

again, the double standard is pretty frigging ridiculous.

it's ok for obama to hold this position, but not a beauty contestant.

[Ken Burch]

27. We can assume that SHE will never change her mind.

Someone like her is cast in granite at age 20. People like that NEVER grow a soul.

[paulsby]

31. oh, rubbish

i know plenty of people that change their minds, from all walks of life.

frigging al gore used to be pro-life.

so was jesse jackson.

i used to be for gun control, and against abortion rights

i changed my mind.

i think that's a cop out. my point stands. even if she never changes her mind, she stated her heartfelt position, which is the SAME as obama's

[galaxy21]

67. She lacks a soul because she doesn't in gay marriage?

Wow. I guess 60% of Americans lack a soul.

COUNTRY OF THE SOULESS!

That could be a movie.

Look, I support gay marriage, but this constant villification of those that don't is not doing the gay marriage cause any favours.

[Ken Burch]

76. i'd consider her soulless not simply because she opposed gay marriage

(and I think we will see, in the non-hatedriven regions, majority support developing for gay marriage because people in suburban and urban areas, unlike people like her, do have the capacity to change)was that she just repeated, and had clearly never even thought about it in her entire life, just recited by rote, what her mommy and daddy told her to say. It wasn't heartfelt, it was just indoctrination. And indoctrination can't be broken.

There are enough other people who aren't in this person's category that we don't really need to spend too much time on her.

[smoogatz]

22. On the other hand, there's no swimsuit competition

to be president.


:crazy:

[paulsby]

26. but there is that pict of barack in a swimsuit

and he looks pretty good.

[Ediacara]

70. No, his name is Mario Lavandeira

I think though... if she would have given an equally idiotic answer in favor of gay marriage, she probably would have lost as well. Her answer was nonsensical.

[XemaSab]

6. Maybe she lost because she's a plastic hag

IIRC, she was competing against 49 other young ladies, all of them plastic and vapid.

Maybe the judges decided Miss North Carolina was just a wee bit cuter.

[paulsby]

12. so, obama can win in a run for president

while being against gay marriage, but if a frigging beauty contestant holds the same opinion, she is a pro-apartheid anti-american.

got it.

fwiw, i'm FOR gay marriage.

but i find the double standard hilarious.

[Bill McBlueState]

18. What's the double standard?

Obama and Miss Whoever are both wrong about marriage. I don't think my opinion is particularly rare among liberals.

[paulsby]

20. so, it's wrong for obama to represent america?

because the OP said it was WRONG for HER to represent america and hold that view.

yet, obama proclaims that same view and DOES represent america. as the frigging president.

there's the double standard.

so, are you saying obama SHOULDN'T represent america?

[Bill McBlueState]

64. given that the selection process and the responsibilities of the two positions

are *completely* different, it's not a good analogy.

If Miss Whoever were running for a position that required her to handle foreign policy and a complex economy, and she showed the potential to make good decisions on those fronts, liberals might be willing to give her a pass on her opinion about marriage equality.

[smoogatz]

23. There's no double standard.

Pretending that the presidency and a beauty contest are analogous? Now that's hilarious.

[paulsby]

28. that's even more laughable

Obama: “I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.”

Miss USA runner-up: “I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman.”

but the latter is evil incarnate, ugly, and anti-american.

the former is our president.

(who i fully support, but not the DOUBLE FRIGGING STANDARD).

yup, no double standard here. lol

[smoogatz]

32. And what I'm saying is that the presidency is not a beauty contest,

and the selection of the president is not up to a panel of C-list celebrities. Also, Obama supports civil unions that would confer all the legal rights and privileges of marriage, which kind of covers the equal protection issue. Does Miss California?

[paulsby]

36. perez hilton

was too busy being a frigging indignant putz to ASK her, so i have no idea.

but your response is irrelevant to the issue that i was addressing.

i was saying people HERE (not c-list celebrities) are calling her evil, anti-american, and apartheid supporting for having

THE SAME FRIGGING POSITION ON MARRIAGE AS BARACK OBAMA

that is not at ALL surprisign to me, but it is CLEARLY a double standard.

[smoogatz]

38. Does she support civil unions?

If not, it's not the same position at all and your argument is nonsense.

[paulsby]

41. ridiculously nonresponsive

since we don't KNOW WHAT her position is, people are either making unfounded assumptions or don't care.

we know what her position on marriage is

that's a fact.

it's the SAME FRIGGING POSITION AS OBAMA

we do NOT know what her position on civil unions is.

so, people are calling her a bigot, an apartheid enabler and anti-american for

HAVING THE SAME FRIGGING POSITION AS OBAMA - IN REGARDS TO WHAT WE KNOW

is it somehow ok to make those accusation based on NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER as to her position on civil unions?

*that* makes the name callers prejudiced. they are prejudging WITHOUT evidence

keerist. your cognitive dissonance is astounding

heck, her frigging wording was almost the EXACT same as obama.

it just goes to show that people are willing to forgive their guy all sorts of stuff that evidences clear evil when somebody else does it.

[smoogatz]

50. "we do NOT know what her position on civil unions is."

Right. You don't know what her position is, so you can't accurately compare it to Obama's. Yet you keep insisting they're the same. Obama's position is essentially to play both sides of the issue: no to gay marriage, yes to civil unions which are legal marriages in all but name. It may not be courageous, but it's not bigoted, either, because it offers equal protection to gay couples, per the Constitutional guarantee of same. If you don't know what Miss California's position is, you can't say it's the same as Obama's. Well, you could, but it'd make you look kind of goofy.

[galaxy21]

68. So, if she says she's for civil unions

Everyone on here will take back everything they have said about her?

[paulsby]

74. lol. exactly

and if you believe that, you just might be gullible :)

i mean seriously. people are just jumping all over themselves to slag this BEAUTY contestant for DARING to express a position on gay marriage that BOTH bill clinton AND barack obama hold.

not to mention hilary.

i mean, cmon!

the cognitive dissonance in this thread is so thick.

[U4ikLefty]

40. No, it's not a double-standard. Obama was competing with ONE other candidate.

Many of us (myself included) voted for Obama IN SPITE of his bigotted view on gay-marriage. We did this because the majority of his views were closer to ours & McCain's were waaaaay off.

Whereas the beuaty-bigot was competing against a number of contestants and a number of them are just as hot-looking & talented as she was.

[paulsby]

42. it IS a double standard

because she gets called an apartheid enabling, anti-american bigot for HAVING that position.

if she gets that name, and others don't (here's a hint. clinton doesn't support gay marriage either) for the SAME FRIGGING POSITION, it's a double standard.

do you KNOW what her other positions are?

no.

i have no frigging idea what her policy position is on any other issue. do you?

[U4ikLefty]

44. Obama is an anti-gay bigot as well...happy??? BUT it has no bearing on

the presidency vs. beauty-contestant.

There is NO comparison between the two.

There is only a double-standard if they were being compared in the same arena...get it???

[paulsby]

47. riiiiiiiiight

so a beauty contestant is supposed to be more supportive of civil rights than a democratic presidential candidate.

yup, that makes sense.

cognitive dissonance.

it's what's for dinner

[U4ikLefty]

49. A beauty contestant is NOT running against ONE other candidate.

There is no comparison.

Keep beating that dead horse.

[paulsby]

51. so, obama lied?

in order to help win an election?

and is still lying?

despite being in power?

yup, that's way better

lol

[U4ikLefty]

52. So now you are moving the goalposts to "Obama lied"?

Oh no, politicians NEVER lie...lol!!!

I see you are running out of angles...buh-bye.

[paulsby]

72. no, YOU moved the goalposts

with the unsupported assertion that obama is lying when he says he doesn't support gay marriage.

it is clear that either he IS or ISN'T lying (it's binary), but it wasn't MY supposition that he is.

but even *if* he was lying, that's no better.

again, we know what obama said about gay marriage. the same thing the candidate for miss USA said.

but SHE is an anti-american, bigoted apartheid enabler and he isn't?

that's a double standard.

hth

[Cid_B]

35. I can hear synapses burning from here...

There are at least 3 people right now stuck in a paradox loop for the past 4 hours....

[paulsby]

37. captain kirk

is just trying to win the scenario, by confusing the robot

"does not compute. does not compute"

"bzzzzzzt, snap, crackle, pfort!@":

being against gay marriage makes you an apartheid enabling, bigoted, anti-american jerk.

unless you are barack obama.

lol

[Cid_B]

54. I think we are both thinking of this fine fellow....

"Nomad – you are imperfect!"
"Error! Error!"
"Exercise your prime function!"
"Faulty! Faulty! Must sterilize! – STER-I-LIZE!"

[paulsby]

73. hell ya!

thanks for finding that.

i have it in my files now :)

kirk, famously did not believe in the no-win scenario. in one academy test, he REPROGRAMMED the computer so that he could win an unwinnable scenario.

similarly, some people here cannot handle the cognitive dissonance. so, they will do ANYTHING to avoid dealing with the fact that they hold two sets of standards - and it's a higher standard of civil rights for beauty contestants than for democratic presidential candidates OR democratic presidents.

i could cut the frigging irony with a ladle.

[LisaL]

43. Exactly.

She's been called all kind of names here for having basically the same position as Obama.
And I bet the same people who are calling her these names voted for Obama.
Who is the hypocrite?

[Balbus]

59. I don't know if that necessarily makes them hypocrites...

Obama ran against only one other person in the presidency and both Obama and McCain are anti-gay rights. So they would've had to have defaulted to another position when deciding on who to vote for president.

This young lady from Cali was running against 49 other people, and I'm sure there were a few pro-gay right supporters amongst that 49.

Now, I don't recall Hillary's position on gay rights, but if she was a supporter of gay rights and these people criticizing the young lady from Cali voted for Obama instead of Hill in the primaries, then I suppose there would be the hypocrisy.

[galaxy21]

65. It does make them hypocrites

They're rather criticise a beauty queen than Obama. It's easier to call her a hateful bigot than looking at high profile democrats, who have the exact same view.


I know Barack was in a difficult position, but he was still against gay marriage, and he has a lot more influence than some bimbo in a beauty contest. Perez looks really bad in all this because people are saying "how can you be against this woman for her views, when your site is staunchly pro Obama?"

[Mudoria]

61. Now it's become "apartheid"

[burning rain]

14. On the plus side for her,...

Fox may need a fresh news performer.

[KingOfLostSouls]

16. She was making the rounds today

I flipped to Hannity and saw her there just feeding the reich wing hate machine.


her agent probably saw dollar signs the second she lost to feed into the teabagger movement.

[burning rain]

25. Did Sean have a bucket to catch the drool?

^

[Skip Intro]

21. I fully support gay marriage (freedom), but I think she has every right to her opinion.

She was asked, and she answered honestly.

Hopefully she'll gain new insight from all this.

[smoogatz]

24. They shouldn't ask the questions if the answers don't matter.

Sure, she's entitled to her (stupid) opinion, but the judges are also expected to incorporate her expression of that opinion into their scoring. They did. She lost.

[paulsby]

29. her answer was actually somewhat coherent... as opposed to...

Judge Kenan Thompson from "Saturday Night Live" asked:
""Do you think the U.S. should have universal health care as a right of citizenship? Why or why not?"

Miss Arizona's response:
"I think this is an issue of integrity regardless of which end of the political spectrum that I stand on. I've been raised in a family to know right from wrong, and politics, whether or not you fall in the middle, the left or the right, it's an issue of integrity, whatever your opinion is and I say that with the upmost conviction."

maybe SHE should run for president.

the answer is SO frigging zen.

[smoogatz]

33. It was coherent, sure.

And I think she actually showed some integrity in answering honestly, even if I happen to disagree with her.

[CTyankee]

62. The art of saying absolutely nothing. It's an art I tell you!

She was probably told, "Whatever they ask, just say this."

[Skip Intro]

39. I agree, in some way, the winner should represent all Americans, and she did not.

She represented a bigoted view, and so she should not have won.

We don't know how Miss NC would have answered the question, so the judgment doesn't really scream integrity, but hell, it is what it is.

I cannot fault her for speaking her mind.

As I said, I hope she learns something here.

Bashing her is not the way to go.

[galaxy21]

66. Yeah, but going by national polls, the majority of people have that bigoted view,

So, a woman that was pro gay marriage wouldn't have represented all Americans either. There's no point getting politics involved with things like this because you can't keep everyone happy. Who even says Miss South Carolina, the winner, supports it?

Personally, I find all this 'I don't want her representing me' talk nonsense. Who cares about Miss USA? Can anyone tell me who won last year? Or the year before that? Do people keep track of who wins these contests in their state?

Beauty Queens don't represent anyone.

[JVS]

30. Am I the only one who finds it ironic that her clumsy answer reflected exactly what her state voted?

[cushla_machree]

34. boring

Every single one of the girls is the same. They all look the same generic pretty. If they had to separate them out by the dumb commments of one, then why not? You didn't answer your question with grace and poise, get over it!

[bridgit]

57. wurd!

:boring:

[Balbus]

45. She has the same views as our president...

I guess it's a good thing that O was only running for the presidency instead of a beauty pageant.

[LisaL]

53. Yea Palin would have won that one.

[bridgit]

56. Oh I can see it, "Impeach Obama!!"

[MrPerson]

46. She lost to someone with bigger tits.

[Hardrada]

48. So she would be sympathetic to Israel??

[bridgit]

55. "apartheid"!? Well...that's hyperbolic. Wrong about what? Please be more specific...

[depakid]

58. Among other things, she babbled non-sensically

looking and sounding like an airhead.

Seems to me, the world's had enough of that.

[lunatica]

60. Beauty Pageants are mysoginist crap

They've always been about superficial looks, never about brains, although some very intelligent women have come out of them. But these intelligent women are not the norm. The Feminist movement fought them and the Playboy Bunny images from the beginning.

Now someone cares what some twit, and that's what she is, a twit, says about anything? She's a bigot. Is anyone surprised? She just bit the hand that feeds her and who thinks that's not the height of stupidity?

[Echo In Light]

69. Yes they are, and they appeal to the likeminded despite the chorus of denials

[northzax]

71. i can see why she thinks so, however

given that one of the judges wrote a rant about her on his blog.

again, this is what she said (according to the Washington Post)

"I think it's great that Americans are able to choose one or the other ... same sex marriage or opposite marriage," then added, "I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman . . . that's how I was raised."

she said, if you read it, that her beliefs were her beliefs, and that other people should be able to make their own choices. how is that wrong?

and for the record, I certainly wasn't raised to believe that marriage was anything but between one man and one woman, when I was a kid it simply wasn't a publicly discussed issue (I'm 34, and I grew up in northwest Ohio. I don't recall it ever being an issue in my community, no one cared. and I often spent the night at my best friend's houses, his parents were divorced, and his dad lived with a friend. we knew they were together, but no one thought it was a big deal. it's just how things were.) Looking back, I can identify several adults in my life who were gay, including my scoutmaster, I just never thought about it (who thinks about their friends parents having sex? yuck) they were just people. but even then, marriage was one man, one woman, to say differently would be lying. I don't think my parents ever considered applying the term elsewhere, although they were hardly religious. They did pay for my sister's wedding, of course, as expected in our tradition from the bride's parents, even picking up the other half of the tab (using the money saved for my wedding with my insistence) since her wife's parents were not on board.

so even in such a good UU liberal tradition, I wasn't raised to think that marriage was anything but one man one woman. I was raised to not question other people's lives and loves. anyone older than 30 who tells you that they were raised to believe in marriage as anything BUT between one man and one woman had an exceptional upbringing.

[burning rain]

75. If a question's going to be asked at a beauty pageant,.....

surely the judges should be able to accept an answer either way. I strongly disagree with Ms. Prejean but I don't find her answer to have been vicious or beyond the pale, more likely bigoted in a thoughtless way (notice how she relied on a particularly simplistic version of the argument from tradition: I was raised this way, the Bible says, etc.). Not allowing room for disagreement without retribution even in a beauty pagant strikes me as somewhat thuggish. That the question was asked, also alludes to the fact that even in polite society, there remains a stark divide on the issue of gay marriage, although thankfully it's moving in the direction of equal rights and mutual respect.

I strongly support gay marriage and the tactic of boycotting Prop 8's financial backers, as well as other prominent partisans for that ballot iniative. At the same time, however, I want a liberal society, one in which people feel able to express opinions on current issues without economic retribution. It's not always easy to draw a line between bankrolling and pushing oppressive politics, and just voicing an opinion and marking one's own ballot. But I surely do want to try and avoid creating "thought crimes." The First Amendment will become a sad footnote if we allow the fear of economic vendetta to stop people from expressing opinions on burning topics of the day. I am sure that this pretty but thoughtless young woman will land on her feet, but she has her interests as a citizen, which include the ability to opine as a citizen, and however much I may find her remarks callous and fatuous, we are bound together by citizenship, and we need to uphold each other's legitimate interests.