More Harman Wiretap Intrigue: Agent Said 'Pelosi Went Ballistic'

[babylonsister]

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/04/on_day_three_of_the.php?ref=fp1

Harman-AIPAC: The Latest Developments
By Zachary Roth - April 22, 2009, 3:48PM


Some recent developments in the fast-moving Harman-AIPAC story to update you on...

- Nancy Pelosi told reporters that she was briefed "a few years ago" by the NSA that they had wiretapped Harman, but wasn't told what was found, and never alerted Harman.

- CQ's Jeff Stein, who broke the original story Monday, now reports that the NSA wiretapped what appears to be a separate, later conversation between Harman and the "suspected Israeli agent." In this second conversation, Harman's interlocutor informed Harman that "Pelosi went ballistic" when a major Democratic fundraiser told Pelosi that unless she made Harman the chair of the Intelligence committee, Pelosi would "get no more contributions from me." (The fundraiser has since been identified as the California businessman Haim Saban.) The conversation was picked up as part of an investigation into the suspected agent.

- Harman may have damaged herself by giving what seem to be inconsistent statements during yesterday's media blitz. In several interviews, she gave the clear impression that she didn't remember the specific conversation being referred to in CQ's original report. "This is four years ago. I have many conversations every day with advocacy groups," she told CNN's Wolf Blitzer, in a typical comment. But in a later interview with NPR, after repeating that stance, Harman declared: "The person I was talking to was an American citizen." Pressed by her interviewer as to how she could know that, she backtracked slightly: "Well, I know that anyone I would have talked to about, you know, the AIPAC prosecution would have been an American citizen. I didn't talk to some foreigner about it."

One outstanding question we've been mulling here: CQ's original report said that Justice Deprtment lawyers reading the transcripts of the wiretapped conversation -- in which Harman is said to have agreed to the quid pro quo with AIPAC -- concluded that Harman had committed a crime, and moved to open an investigation of her (later, reportedly, quashed by Alberto Gonzales for political reasons).

If the quid pro quo was discussed, it would certainly have been sleazy. But why would it have been a crime? Harman denies doing anything to follow thru on the bargain by intervening in the AIPAC case, and there's no public evidence that she did intervene. And even if she had, it's unclear what the crime would have been.

We'll bring you more on this as we get some clarity...

[sixmile]

1. Too much 'quid pro quo' going on on the Hill

I smell blackmail. Pelosi was probably 'ballistic' because she knew somewhere in the vast snooping she was on tape, too.

[Supersedeas]

15. Nancy is now exposed.

[Hippo_Tron]

23. Umm Pelosi did not give her the Intelligence Committee post

She did the right thing on this one.

[DFW]

2. Ummm, come again?

She doesn't remember the conversation, but distinctly remembers that the conversation she
isn't sure she had was definitely with an American citizen?

HELLO??

"Officer, I'm not sure I recall seeing a traffic light back at that intersection, and that
it definitely was still green when I drove through it." See how many traffic tickets THAT
one saves you from.

[Duer 157099]

4. LOL, right huh. Not only that

but when she says she cannot recall that specific conversation, what I read was "Jeez, do you people know how many conversations I have where we discuss questionable quid pro quos??? I mean, c'mon, get real! You can't seriously expect me to recall the details of all of them, can you?"

[TorchTheWitch]

25. Even more stupid is it doesn't matter if the agent was American

It's certainly possible that an American citizen can be an agent for a foreign country and therefore guilty of espionage... happens all the time.

Good analogy with the traffic light... claiming this person she spoke with was an American citizen serves her no purpose and just makes her look more the fool. What a very stupid thing to say.

[kestrel91316]

3. Did that sleazeball Haim Saban try to blackmail Pelosi? Am I reading this right?

I know somebody who used to work for him - filthy rich and always throwing his weight around.

[Poll_Blind]

5. I am pretty sure this was Saban they're talking about.

PB

[kestrel91316]

9. He's dirty. I know people who know him.

[hileeopnyn8d]

14. He also sent Pelosi

a letter warning her to stay out of the Democratic presidential primaries, or they would pull all their financial support for upcoming congressional elections.

[aquart]

10. "Blackmail"? I don't think that's the right word here.

Threaten her, maybe. Is he "filthy" rich in your opinion because he's Jewish? Because Americans being rich is not usually considered to be so dirty.

[sabrina 1]

12. You don't think the Bushes and Cheneys

are filthy rich, eg? I think a lot of people do and they're not Jewish, are they? I don't know anything about this guy or how he got his money, but the standard for using the words 'filthy rich' would be how they got their money.

Assuming he got his money honestly, if the story is true, he isn't using very honestly. Blackmailing members of Congress may be a crime itself, and if it isn't, it ought to be.

No wonder we the people have zero influence on the likes of Nancy Pelosi. What he did, if true, sounds like a bribe and last I heard it was against the law, and Pelosi should have reported him, imho.

[babylonsister]

13. Sort of sounds like blackmail to me, and it has nothing to do with

his ethnicity.

[Malikshah]

17. How very rovian of you...

Disgusting method of argument.

[kestrel91316]

18. I'm not the least bit anti-Semitic, if that's what you are trying to imply.

He's got more money than God and likes to show it off in a rather tasteless manner a la 1880's robber baron conspicuous consumption.

The person I know who knows him and thinks he is really uber-sleazy IS Jewish, BTW, lol.

[Forkboy]

31. It's exactly what he's trying to imply, and he's done it over and over here at DU over the years.

And 99% of the time he's too much of a coward to come back and reply.

[arikara]

20. That's a real stretch

Filthy rich is an old and common expression and has absolutely nothing to do with so called "anti-semitism". This anti-semitism name calling thing has gotten ridiculous and has become meaningless as a result.

[Norquist Nemesis]

28. Congratulations!

You get the award for most ridiculous hyperbolic assertion in a post for the week!

:applause:

[Forkboy]

32. par for the aquart course. To him everyone is an anti-semite waiting to be exposed.

[Forkboy]

30. Ah, the years here at DU haven't lessened the quick trigger of anti-semitism from aquart.

Like the sun rising and the birds flying South each year, we can count on you to be consistent. The fact that it's being consistently an ass doesn't matter. At least you're good at something.

Now, don't you have Lieberman to defend some more. He was your hero back in the day. What happened to your love for Holy Joe?

Smeghead.

[L. Coyote]

36. That's not blackmail. That's politics as usual for the big donors.

D'oh! Big donor expects returns on investment! D'oh!

Try to get a few million out of the AFL-CIO without some sort of assurance that you vote along their lines!
I've sat in on these "indelicate negotiations" and the donors on the left are no exception, in my former experience.
Not to mention, you better have a good chance of winning. Donors don't waste money either!

[Mari333]

6. I want to see her go ballistic

[sabrina 1]

7. The wire-tap wasn't on Harmon

It was on a suspected Israeli agent, according to what I've read. And it's not clear if she called the agent or the agent called Harmon (could it have been one of the two AIPAC suspects). Whatever, it seems that she was caught on tape by accident, if the story is true. We don't know who the agent was but it apparently was NOT Haim Saban.

Regarding Josh's question, 'what crime did she commit' if she didn't ask anyone for help regarding the Chairmanship she wanted? She may not have asked Pelosi directly, but apparently Haim Saban went to Pelosi on her behalf. How did HE know to do that? Did she have a conversation with him after talking to the agent, or did someone else call him on her behalf as payment for her assurance that she would help to try to get the two AIPAC members off?

If she made such a promise as a member of Congress, then it looks like she did commit a crime. Isn't it an abuse of power for a member of Congress to attempt to interfere with a case being handled by the DOJ for political and/or personal reasons?

Whatever happened, it's astounding to see her outrage over a legal wire-tap now, considering her enormous support for warrantless wire-taps, so long as it was the rabble, 'scuse me, ordinary citizens who were the victims.

Sometimes I wonder about the IQ level of these people. Knowing full well that there was illegal wire-tapping going on, why would any intelligent person have that kind of conversation over the phone? How stupid can a person be, but then, it does take a level of stupidity to support, as she did, warrantless wire-tapping in the first place.

Maybe she could use an insanity defense, or is there such a thing as a 'stupidity' defense?

[FLAprogressive]

11. She should be thrown in jail for assisting in espionage

[Captain Hilts]

19. In Harmon's case, the wire-tapping could be legal. As a ranking member of the Intel Cmte...

she waives a lot of rights to privacy.

This could be one of them.

[sabrina 1]

21. I think it was legal anyway. I read that they had a warrant

probably to wiretap the Israeli. I didn't know though, that members of Congress, even those on the Intel Committee, could be legally wire-tapped. If so, that makes her even more stupid than I thought she was.

[TorchTheWitch]

24. Harman was not wiretapped

She had coversations with a suspected Israeli agent who was being legally wiretapped. Stein said as much in his article and further stipulated twice in the online Q&A about the article that Harman wasn't the one tapped. She was GOING TO BE tapped legally with a FISA tap which they got approval for as part of an investigation of Harman due to what she said in the conversations with this suspected agent, but that's when Gonzo stepped in and killed the investigation thereby blocking the approved tap on Harman.

[sabrina 1]

27. Yes, I know she was in a conversation with an agent who

was under surveillance and was caught speaking to him.

I was responding to the information provided in the post above stating that members of Congress on the Intel Cmte 'waive a lot of their rights to privacy'. The commenter implied that with that in mind, she had no expectation of NOT being wire-tapped. I was asking basically, if that is a fact as I did not think so. Sorry for the confusion and thanks for the response anyhow.

Maybe you know the answer to my question though. Do members of the Intel Committee forfeit the right to speak on the phone privately? I cannot imagine that to be true.

[TorchTheWitch]

29. I'd have to say no

Considering that they had to get approval for a FISA tap for her because of what she said in the conversations with the suspected agent, I can't see that it could possibly be acceptable to put a wiretap on members of Congress just because they're a member of the Intel Com. Those people in particular should expect even more privacy due to delicate conversations they more than likely are required to have. Besides, their communication devices are used for many more things than anything having to do with the Intel Com. for which they would and should have a reasonable right to privacy. This isn't the old USSR.

This is the whole reason for the outrage about warrentless wiretapping... certain Congresspersons could be listened in on for sinister reasons by the admin simply because of what party they belong to. No Congressperson would use their work phones/email, etc. if they had to worry about ALL the conversations they had using those devices.

[sabrina 1]

34. That makes sense so I was surprised

at the statement above regarding 'waiving' their rights to privacy. Just wanted to check though as nothing really surprises me any more considering all the other outrages that have occurred over the past eight years.

This has been a huge issue for me and it is stunning that anyone could not see the danger of what you just pointed out in your last paragraph.

I doubt anyone who has half a brain in Congress would feel secure talking about anything of a sensitive nature from their offices in DC. Especially if it is true that contracts for the installation of Congress's computer and phone systems have gone to foreign contractors. If true, that too is pretty stunning. I have to do a little more research on that as I am going by memory from a few years ago but have seen this mentioned again recently.

Thanks again for the confirmation ~ :-)

[TorchTheWitch]

37. I'm convinced the reason they wanted it was for spying on congress

What other legitimate reason for it could there be? There isn't ANY legitimate reason for warrantless wiretapping. The only reason they could possibly want it so badly is so they could listen to anyone they wanted with NO oversite whatsoever. Why would they want to do that? Seems the answer is obvious... they planned to use it for sinister reasons like spying on Congresspersons and who knows who else for the purpose of blackmail or end-running around them without being found out or subject to prosecution if somehow found out.

If Congresspersons gave up their right to not be spied on, there would be no need for warrantless wiretapping (and we would effectively be the old USSR and there would be an enormous flock of carrier pigeons flooding The Hill).


By the way, welcome to DU! :hi:

[sabrina 1]

38. There never was a reason to spy without a warrant

on anyone which is why the reaction to that story when it first came out was so intense. I think Bush's numbers plummeted at that time. That was the time to start investigations when the public's reaction to their law-breaking was so negative, contrary to the reaction to the rest of their crimes.

And I'm sure, I think we all were, that they have spied on members of Congress, although anyone in Congress who didn't at least suspect that, was pretty stupid, imo.

Carrier pigeons! :rofl: That would have been a great way to demonstrate against their spying. It might have gotten some attention from the useless media and made the point better than words.

Thanks for the welcome :-) but actually I was a member starting in 2004, right before the election but lost all my info after I moved. I was very thrilled to find this place back then especially after that election. I think I cried for days and it was good to be around other people who felt the same way.

[Captain Hilts]

33. Actually, when Eleanor Roosevelt's hotel room at the Blackstone in Chicago was bugged...

she wasn't the one they were after. But the hotel staff told her what had happened and when she got back to DC she raised some hell and that unit of military intelligence got disbanded.

But folks with high clearances sign forms waiving their rights to privacy. For example, you are told your phone could be tapped. I know my friends have.

[aquart]

8. Ah. It is a second conversation.

Well, she didn't get what she wanted because the intervention with Pelosi didn't work. Could that be seen as the reason she didn't intervene? Or because not getting what she wanted meant she had no power to intervene?

[Solly Mack]

16. K&R

[Occam Bandage]

22. I've always thought the phrase "went ballistic" is kind of strange.

I always picture the person sailing along a gentle, unhindered arc through the sky.

[Norquist Nemesis]

26. RawStory is reporting that Harman's "walking back" her denials

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Harman_begins_to_backtrack_denials_of_0422.html

So, Nancy go a heads up about this. That explains her not naming Harmon the Chair. But it doesn't explain how the suspect under surveillance knew Pelosi "went ballistic" about a major fundraiser threatening to withhold funding unless Harman was tapped. It sounds like the fundraiser should have some eyes on him too!

[L. Coyote]

35. Listen carefully. She was in non-denial mode from word one!

She was not assertively denying what she was questioned about, just taliking around the questions with rhetorical question tetorts. In politicians, that is a sign that they cannot issue a straightforth and complete denial.

That said, we need more facts. I assume there is a political element to this story, and we must consider that the Rs are trying to railroad her out of power. They had all the info all along, so they knew the context all along, and we did not. Look carefully at who said what when, and it may be apparent who was maligning her early on with the secret facts of the case. Then consider, how did they know unless they are RNC/Bush.