Holy Cow, I guess I'm back in the Obama-as-Chessplayer camp.

[Jackpine Radical]

I was thinking about the latest development in the Siegelman case.

The Stevens action proves that the Obamites are being quite non-political, and is quite a nice opening move in reversing a lot of bad DOJ shit. Now the bipartisan group of 75 former DAs come forward with their demand to re-open Siegelman, thereby completing the de-politicization of Holder's actions against his predecessors. The way is now clear for Holder to take on the Siegelman case with no fear of being painted with the political tarbrush.

For the moment, this and the torture scene (in which they're "allowing" themselves to be "forced" into prosecutions of high Bush officials) are putting me back in the Obama-as-chessplayer camp.

Now, if he'll just let himself be "forced" to nationalize the banks, end both stupid wars, and institute a national health care plan, I'll be pretty comfortable with having crawled back into his camp.

[Demoiselle]

1. I'm with you, Jackpine. (eom)

[Believing Is Art]

2. I must be out of the loop

What is the new development re Siegelman?

[Jackpine Radical]

4. This, at the top of the DU Home Page:

A bipartisan group of 75 former state attorneys general from across the country has asked U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder to investigate the prosecution of former Alabama Gov. Don Siegelman.

[Believing Is Art]

6. Thanks

If it were snake, would have bitten me.

Good news!

[spanone]

3. as the evidence 'unfolds' there will be no choice but to prosecute....no choice

[Jackpine Radical]

5. It's sure looking that way.

Remember that the current unfolding was triggered by the Obamites' release of the torture documents.

[leeroysphitz]

7. Magical thinking. And Karl Rove will be indicted in 24 business hours.

Don't bother flaming me. If I'm wrong I'll happily eat crow.

[Jackpine Radical]

10. Why would I flame you?

Within 24 hours I may be in your camp.

Anyway, crow isn't so bad as long as you get the corn-fed kind rather than a carrion-eating roadside bird.

[nichomachus]

39. Karl Rove is like J. Edgar Hoover

He has too much dirt on too many people. I'm willing to bet he has photos too. Karl Rove is a lot of things, but he is not a fool. He knew people would try to hold him accountable. I'm willing to bet there isn't anyone in DC, with the possible exception of Dennis K. and a few other upright people, who would dare lock horns with Rove in a fight to the political death.

There are thousands of right-wing operatives in the agencies who owe their sinecure to Rove. There are a legion of Federalist Society judges who owe their lifetime appointments to him. He still has his hooks deep into the cable chatter channels.

Don't count out Karl quite yet.

[KT2000]

8. Excellent point

watch and learn may be a good approach.
He is geared toward being successful in his goals - not imploding for the sake of "being right" and leaving it at that. All activists can learn from him.

[Canuckistanian]

9. It's like that FDR story

A group of people met with him about what they wanted FDR to do.

FDR says, "OK, I'm convinced. Now MAKE me do it"

[pacalo]

12. Your post is a good fit for the OP.

I'm in the chess player camp, too. I think Obama is brilliant.

[goclark]

45. I love the way he makes his moves

All of the issues that he gets bashed about are probably near and dear to his heart.

I believe he sees the broad picture.
Knows what he wants to do but has to move the pieces at the right time.

[Flying Dream Blues]

13. Exactly! I learned a lot about Obama during the campaign; mainly that

he is always three or four moves ahead and may have me questioning him and gnashing my teeth, but he seems to have his timing down to a science. I still have my doubts at times because I'm not a patient person by nature :), but I try to tell myself, he's the same man I voted for, and he's damn smart.

[geckosfeet]

11. Welcome back. Personally, I don't think we've seen nothing yet.

[bemildred]

14. Yep.

The wingnuts are always playing catchup. They never have the initiative.

[myrna minx]

15. I think he's fully versed in the Art of War, allowing his foes to damn themselves.

:hi: Jackpine.

[OneGrassRoot]

16. I think all we need to do to see the effect he is having on Washington....

is to watch the panic-stricken, on-air disintegration of Cheney, Rove and their minions in Congress and in media. From the various YouTube clips (as I can't bear to actually WATCH their shows), it seems O'Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh, et al are NOT coping well...having hissy fits left and right as they continue their bully approach but it just ain't workin'.

Good. :)

[Froward69]

17. I have realized President Obama

"waits for the Iron to be hot enough to strike" Patience here is indeed a virtue. I have concerns, yet I find myself somehow knowing that the issues dearest to my heart will be handled in a "precise and timely manner."

[Mermaid7]

18. Machiavellian

He has thrown me for a loop too.

But if you really think about it, why did he release the 'Torture Memos', only to have his henchmen Emanuel and Axelrod say he didn't want to prosecute?

Clever. To ignite the flame.

As in his campaign, when his opponents self-destructed, I think he knew what the result of those statements would do. Then he comes back in himself saying quote, unquote, he'd "leave the door open".

Q- Open for whom?

A- Us.

[sampsonblk]

24. Easily impressed, are you?

This debate has been going on at DU for years.

On the one side, many said we shouldnt pursue investigations because 1) we don't have the votes, 2) we will lose seats in the Congress, 3) the public doesn't want it, etc. On the other hand, the sane ones of us were pointing out that if you start the ball rolling, the numbers will move in our favor. Duh. People want to know what happened.

I support what Obama is doing, but I dont see any brilliance on the torture issue. I see a great leader who is willing to do the right thing, where others were too risk averse to even consider it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

19. That's one explanation.

The other is that they are simply playing it by ear; that Obama is reactive to pressure from us on the left.

We're unused to thinking in that way, and it gives me greater optimism than your chessplaying frame.

[yowzayowzayowza]

21. I don't see where they're mutually exclusive. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. If I'm playing chess. I'm thinking a couple of moves ahead.

Someone shouting in my ear "Take the Bishop!" won't have any affect on that game plan.

So yeah, I think they are largely mutually exclusive.

[yowzayowzayowza]

35. Only if you believe your thinking to be inerrant.

eta: Also, planning for several moves in advance is going to include multiple scenarios of counter, yes?

[Bluenorthwest]

20. Here's the deal

If it is chess, or poker face time, then the question becomes what part is our part. If I am rooting for a man who is trying to fake out the opposition, and I know this, my job is to help the fake out, which means speaking my mind as my guy would assume I will do. To remain silent is of no help, and the telegraphing of the tactic is also rather foolish. When Obama looks at his hand and seems to hold no cards, we should not really be snickering that we know he has a royal flush, if we want the pot...
The point is that by being true to one's self, and speaking in that way, we play our parts. If it is not a chess game, then our voices really have to be raised...if it is a chess game, our guys will expect us to behave as our selves, that would be part and parcel of their plan, don't you think?
So I have short shrift for those who want to announce that they understand the game. Who cares? It is not about our egos, or our 'looking like we support the President'. I could not care less if others think I simply can not see what is going on. It is not about me gaining approval from other DUers, not at all. It is about being a true person, which is what America needs most, what Obama needs most. He has zero need to hear that I adore him, he has much need to hear what each of us think about issues such as torture. Our voices are either going to be tools to reach an end, or they are of no value at all.

"This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man."
Willy the Shake

[Mermaid7]

25. Yes, I agree...but it's interesting

trying to figure out President Obama. Especially when we fear that he may not taking a 'different tack' but instead not following through on his own campaigns promises.

That being said, I'd really prefer to think he is smarter than the average bear, including myself.

"Be your ownself, everyone else is already taken".
Oscar Wilde

[Soylent Brice]

23. .

[tomp]

26. i'm sorry but i can't abide govt being a game.

the very fact that we even talk like this is indicative of the overall problem. unless we speak plainly to one another about what is going on, that is, unless we know what obama knows, how can we make any reasonable decisions about what is going on. all this close-to-the-vest, back room maneuvering is for game-players, not patriots.

[Terry in Austin]

27. The game is called "politics"

Yeah, it'd be nice to live in a world where decision making could be done without politics. Real nice.

Not happening anytime soon, I'm afraid.

:shrug:

Meantime, it's the only game in town, and you might as well be good at it.

[backscatter712]

31. Yeah, politics is a full-contact sport.

Don't be afraid to take or dish out the hard hits, or try for the unnecessary roughness when the ref's not looking.

They're not...

[tomp]

50. fail.

politics is the antithesis of patriotism. i insist on the latter.

[Individualist]

28. Same here

Serious matters should not be approached as game playing.

[Cha]

41. It's called reality and

we got it back.

[tomp]

51. wow, reality, i never thought of that. nt

[robdogbucky]

29. "chess," game theory and politics

This may be more subtle than what we are used to but it is proven to be effective:

"Game theory is a branch of applied mathematics that is used in the social sciences (most notably economics), biology, engineering, political science, international relations, computer science, and philosophy. Game theory attempts to mathematically capture behavior in strategic situations, in which an individual's success in making choices depends on the choices of others. While initially developed to analyze competitions in which one individual does better at another's expense (zero sum games), it has been expanded to treat a wide class of interactions, which are classified according to several criteria. Today, "game theory is a sort of umbrella or 'unified field' theory for the rational side of social science, where 'social' is interpreted broadly, to include human as well as non-human players (computers, animals, plants)" (Aumann 1987).

Traditional applications of game theory attempt to find equilibria in these games. In an equilibrium, each player of the game has adopted a strategy that they are unlikely to change. Many equilibrium concepts have been developed (most famously the Nash equilibrium) in an attempt to capture this idea. These equilibrium concepts are motivated differently depending on the field of application, although they often overlap or coincide. This methodology is not without criticism, and debates continue over the appropriateness of particular equilibrium concepts, the appropriateness of equilibria altogether, and the usefulness of mathematical models more generally."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_theory


What really jumps out at me from this excerpt is "in strategic situations, in which an individual's success in making choices depends on the choices of others," and "each player of the game has adopted a strategy that they are unlikely to change."

Pretty smart strategy if you can anticipate others' reactions, no?


Just my dos centavos,

robdogbucky

[BR_Parkway]

30. I think we tend to forget his "community activist" roots - anyone who's done

that knows how similar to herding cats it is - and you have to do it to bring big, sometimes competing majorities on board to get anything accomplished. And you certainly can't herd them if they see the direction you're trying to get them all in.

Funny, the thing Sarah Palin tried to discredit him for may still be one of his biggest strengths

[conscious evolution]

32. I'm still niot convinced

and I plan on still raising hell whenever it looks like he is playing games.

Never again.


NEVER AGAIN!

[immoderate]

33. I buy the chessplayer analysis. But I'm never sure. He's that good.

--imm

[winyanstaz]

34. me too

I was getting very worried we had been played again..but now its looking up for truth, justice..and the American way!!!:D
I want the Constitution restored and the rule of Law applied equally to all citizens...even the rich and our government leaders damn it.
Obama is once again giving me some hope. :)

[Fleshdancer]

36. If you haven't read it yet, I highly recommend The Audacity of Hope

The man is highly intelligent and has a gift of utilizing people on both sides of the aisle to either neutralize a situation, or to get what he wants. After 8 years of Bush bullying his way through everything, Obama's tactic can seem too subtle or slow at times, but it appears to be working.

If he keeps this up, schools will be studying his administration for decades to come. I don't know how he knows when to do it, but he manages to politicize issues when they need to be politicized (and even then he does so as a populist - town hall meetings for example) and he manages to de-politicize issues when they need to be de-politicized. Even the spin of him contradicting himself regarding torture prosecutions are working in his favor.

Here's to hoping he can maintain such clarity over the full 8 years. :toast:

[unc70]

46. "When the legend becomes fact, print the legend"

I have previously posted that probably my choice of movie to represent the last election was "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence".

I find this quote to be particularly appropriate wrt Obama. While every candidate for high office tries to create a mythic narrative of their life, their "log cabin" story involving the outsider overcoming _something_ to achieve greatness -- to be worthy of receiving your vote and to be your leader. The best of these myths withstand attacks with "inconvenient facts" that might hold up in a court of law, but not with the public - all to the surprise and consternation of opponents.

JFK, Reagan, and Clinton were all very talented and skilled in these areas. With a big smile, a bit of humor, and a knowing wink, they could make many of us want to believe them or at least left feeling we were in the know about the deception. These talents are very powerful for a politician, but they are also widespread among con artists, swindlers, and various sociopaths.

Obama is the best at these things I have every seen anywhere. His two books are taken as factual biographies by most readers even though he told them that he had create composit characters and modified timelines and such. He had inoculated himself from those inconvenient facts certain to appear later. I had feared that a couple of "issues" were being held back during the primaries and fully expected they would be used effectively in the general election. For whatever reason, none of these issues had any traction with most voters.

So where are we now? I am still wary of what, if anything, forms the core of Obama. I hope for the best while concerned that he was probably the most conservative of the Dem candidates and has too many around him who I really do not trust. During the campaigns, he manipulated his message at various times to play the expectations of various groups.

Maybe when he sees where so many of us are headed, he will quickly rush to regain his position "leading" us.

[seemslikeadream]

37. K (*_*) R

[FrenchieCat]

38. I'm following closely to the nuance and the map of how things are shaping up.....

my sig speaks for me on what I believe of those who do not recognize patience as a virtue.

Welcome back (but recognizing that you may be gone from our ranks again tomorrow)! :thumbsup:

[Mopar151]

40. Try this analogy

We all expected that the House of Bush would be knocked flat with a wrecking ball, buried, and paved over. Instead, strategic sections of the foundation were weakened and cut, and small, precise charges have been set, to be detonated at precisely controlled intervals. Gravity does most of the work, and the salvage crews are being lined up to recycle the debris pile.
Administration officals are cautiously floating proposals for a local livestock inititave, after inital plans for vegetable production were criticized - apparently the only crop raised succesfully on the site has been bullshit....

[nichomachus]

42. Being a good chess player only works

if the other guy is playing chess too. If the other guy is playing kick boxing, it doesn't matter how good your chess game is.

[mzmolly]

43. I think we'll see two of your three last wishes.

Ending the wars and health care. :hi:

[Psychic Consortium]

44. There will be justice on all fronts.

It will take time to set events in motion, but Obama will do it.
He moves the pieces one by one, deliberately and carefully.

[ms liberty]

47. Not just a chess player, but a Three Dimensional Vulcan Chessmaster. Just sayin'! K&R n/t

[Mermaid7]

48. well...Hell. It's certainly a conundrum

At least for me.

Pres Obama came out again today saying he didn't want a truth commission...
but then tonight we hear they, I assume the W.H., will be releasing 44 photos of prisoner abuse on May 28th.

So what is up w that?

Whether you agree w his tactics or not, something very strange and contradictory seems to be up, at least to me.

What sayeth you all? (about this latest development).

[AtomicKitten]

49. Very interesting times indeed. n/t