Who would have thought Shepard Smith has more character than Keith Olbermann? Wonders never cease.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

I just saw Shepard Smith's blow up on The Colbert Report and then I read here that Keith Olbermann is gleefully hoping to pay to have Sean Hannity tortured. If it's torture it's always wrong, plain and simple. Olbermann is an idiot for doing this, it minimizes what actually took place.


David

[sandnsea]

1. Sean Hannity volunteered

to be tortured for charity. Interesting twist on what really happened.

Oops. Not be tortured because the United States does not torture. No torture involved, according to Hannity. It's his dime. He can call it what he wants, if he wants to drown for charity.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

8. So Olbermann doesn't think it's torture either.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

13. That's wrong, too ..........

Olbermann simply called him on his promise.

What's up your butt about Keith Olbermann?

[Rabrrrrrr]

14. No, you dense-nick, Olberman thinks it IS torture

Hannity was interviewing a guy calling waterboarding torturing. Hannity said it wasn't, and then said that he would be waterboarded for charity. The guy offered him a time, and Hannity blew it off.

So later on, Olberman called Hannity's bluff, offering $1000 for every second that Hannity undergoes being waterboarded.

And he did it because he knows Hannity is full of shit.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

43. Then why would he want anyone to undergo it?

[Rabrrrrrr]

47. Jesus Christ.

:banghead:

Are you seriously that dense?

Or do you just hate Keith Olberman so much that you're willing to give up your brain to "insult" him, even though it makes you look like a fucking idiot?

[Hanse]

67. He's just calling Hannity's bluff.

Like all conservative republicans, Hannity is a lying coward who knew Bush was torturing the whole time.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

91. Hopefully Hannity backs down.

[Hanse]

96. I'm sure you're very concerned.

Between that and Obama taking your guns away, I bet you hardly sleep at night.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

101. So you just don't like my stance on guns, okay I understand now.

[orleans]

108. i'm sure he will. and maybe that's the point here. n/t

[MadMaddie]

142. He does...he want's Hannity to stand by his convictions

and experience torture and then give his opinion.

Those that scream the loudest for torture have no idea how damaging it can be and Hannity is one of them.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

144. I'll save you the read, here is my point.

I have no problem with Keith calling him out. I personally would have preferred if Keith had gotten a couple of badass Special Forces Veterans to come on and talk about how bad waterboarding actually is, that would have really chapped Hannity's ass. My problem with this is that the bodies response to waterboarding is physiological, waterboarding causes a rise in CO2 levels in the body and decreases the pH of the CSF which is a chemical regulator of breathing, that response can't be controlled, not by anyone. Your body actually thinks you are drowning. Hannity will not allow himself to be waterboarded for real on film because he would piss himself and freak out gagging and crying. So he will either back down or rig it. If he rigs it and looks like he deals with waterboarding for any signifcant amount of time, then it stands a chance of trivializing this issue to the average uninformed person. Lastly I don't want to see anyone tortured, those repulsed by it or those lacking the intelligence to realize that it's torture.

David

[MadMaddie]

149. David you have very valid points

I don't want to see anyone tortured either. I am not sure there is any other way for people like Hannity to understand the horror of the practice of waterboarding. There is no good answer.....

Worst of all Hannity and his ilk do not understand that because the practices were implemented our soldiars will be subjected to the same torture or worse.....the Repugs don't get it. It is maddening....

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

154. Thanks sorry for the sleight of hand that got you here.

[riverdeep]

187. I seriously doubt he could get away with rigging it.

If it got that far and Olbermann agreed to pay, he would only agree to a pre-appoved qualified administrator. As for seeing someone getting tortured, well, some people only seem to learn the hard way, and he volunteered.

He could always lie and say it was like a fraternity prank, but the video footage would show otherwise.

[sandnsea]

2. dupe

[gcomeau]

3. Please get a clue.

Hannity declared on the air he would VOLUNTARILY be waterboarded for charity as a way of mocking the idea that it's really torture. Olbermann is just calling him on it by offering to pony up the charity funds.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

7. So Olbermann advocates torture, got it, thanks.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

15. Oh, you're being deliberately obtuse ..........

Now you're just silly, sort of doing a rightwingnut freeper thing.

Very funny ...................

[Maraya1969]

53. How could he advocates torture if he don't believe it is torture.

You really do sound like a freeper troll with these conjunctions.

[gcomeau]

116. I hereby dub thee "Sir Troll"

Because I refuse to believe you're actually stupid enough to mean what you just posted.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

124. See now that's actually funny. Smart, to the point not really a personal jab. Nicely done.

[Hanse]

4. It's not torture if it's voluntary.

But I think you already knew that.

So what's the point of this argument? You already made it in another thread, but I thought you were being sarcastic.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

9. I thought it would get more play in its own thread.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

16. You lonely, poor honey?

You looking for attention, so you post something really stupid?

Aw, baby, it'll be all right. Somewhere, there's someone who will care for you, no matter how silly you are ..............................

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

21. I really do think Olbermann's an idiot.

[Hanse]

24. And you actually thought this OP was a valid argument.

So that's a bit like Dick Cheney complaining about Barack Obama.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

27. Well, that's obvious,

since you were willing to look like a total asshole just to try to make Olbermann look bad.

Unfortunately, you succeeded. And Olbermann is looking better than ever ...........................

[sandnsea]

57. Well my dear friend

I really do think you should rethink that. And watch Ed and Keith and Rachel for a good six months - turn off Fox News - and then get back to me.

Hope all is well in your life. :hug:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

61. Things are very well thanks.

I hope your situation has improved. :pals:

[NoSheep]

106. Olbermann was one of the only people standing up for your ass for the last several years.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

111. No doubt about his boldness. Just think he's played this one wrong.

[NoSheep]

115. That post is a far cry from the Original n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

118. You are here aren't you.

Read the whole thread you'll get the point. At least I hope you do.

[jbnow]

168. More play? So you think torture is play? You like torture word games?

Olbermann isn't offering to pay Sean Hannity anything of course. Hannity said he would get waterboarded for charity and stated that it wasn't charity.
Keith offered to pay the charity $1,000 per second.
So you are against charitable donations?

hannity wants to prove it isn't torture. If he is being waterboarded for charity you are against the charity getting more money. Why is that?

Of course if this non-torture wasterboarding does turn out to be torture to Seam and he tells people that Keith said he would pay double.
We know of at least two people who went through it voluntarily to see if something like that could really be torture, doubted it. They got waterboarded and they said it is torture. Even them knowing it was being done by friends and they would not drown it was unbearavle. Torture.
So what do you think would be a more effective way of convincing Sean or his viewers that waterboarding really might be torture. Two more guys on Keith's show saying it is or Seam going through it and then saying that it is torture.


So I'm sure you aren't against that. You just don't like charity. Strange.

[babylonsister]

5. Nah. KO is offering $1,000 per second if Hannity wants to put his mouth

where the money is, and it's all for charity. KO is calling the coward's bluff. Ain't gonna happen, btw, because Hannity is a coward of the first order. He'd have to actually do something he thinks is A-OK verbally, and he'd have to confront Olbermann. Ain't gonna happen.

[Gormy Cuss]

6. Shep Smith still works for FOX. That's not a sign of good character

although he does have moments of clarity when the bullshit on his network gets to be too much. I don't understand why he stays there.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

10. Paying to have someone tortured is though right.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

17. "... to have someone tortured ......."

Where did your reading teacher go wrong, Dave? Wherever she is, she's probably hanging her head in shame at your obvious distress.......

[Gormy Cuss]

20. Huh?

I'm not familiar with the Olbermann event you reference in the OP, thus I can't and won't comment on Keith but I have seen Smith's blowup. He had a similar off-script blow up when he was covering the aftermath of Katrina. I'm surprised that he's still with the FAUX network since he seems to have a conscience and a brain. If I were in his shoes I'd throw up at the end of every work day.

[IntravenousDemilo]

29. I think Olbermann is trying to make Hannity admit that waterboarding is torture, or if not, that he

doesn't have the balls to stand by his opinion and his word by submitting to "enhanced interrogation techniques". I also think that for a narcissist like Hannity, admitting error would be a far worse torture than waterboarding.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

65. and that will never happen.

Hannity would never allow himself to really be waterboarded on film so he's gagging, choking and begging for mercy in 5 sec. He would rig it somehow.

David

[IntravenousDemilo]

166. Wouldn't a true journalist want to experience the full meal deal and show the unvarnished truth?

Nah, you're right, that will never happen, not with Hannity.

[Raineyb]

188. Are you having problems with comprehension?

Olbermann is not paying to have Hannity tortured. Hannity, who seems to think that waterboarding is no big deal, offered to do it for charity since in the world of insane chickenhawks, it's a perfectly acceptable method of interrogation. Olbermann is offering to pay the charity $1000 a second that Hannity manages to withstand. Hannity is doing this to himself. You're making it sound like Olberman hired someone to waterboard the fool Hannity which is extremely disingenuous on your part.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

11. You've got it completely wrong ........

Olbermann is not ". . . hoping to pay to have Sean Hannity tortured."

Man, did you get it wrong!

Sean Hannity announced that he'd volunteer to be waterboarded to prove that it's not torture, and Charles Grodin said something about paying to see that, so Hannity said he'd donate the money to charities benefitting military families.

Keith Olbermann simply said he'd pay $1,000 a second to the designated charity if Hannity were to follow through on his promise.

Your misinterpretation just startled the hell out of me. KO made it so clear.........................

[JI7]

12. why are you lying about what happened ? Hannity is the one who claims waterboarding isn't that bad

and would do it himself. Olbermann is taking him up on the offer, not demanding he be tortured.

it's about proving Hannity hypocrite and wrong.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

18. Dave's just lonely,

and looking for attention.

He figured he could get it by posting something incredibly silly and dumb.

Pray for Dave ....................

[EFerrari]

23. Bully doesn't suit you very well. n/t

[Hanse]

28. Name calling?

That's a form of bullying.

[EFerrari]

56. Do you have a question or do you need something?

[Hanse]

73. No, just making a comment.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

26. Olbermann is just being stupid.

This is incredibly stupid on Olbermanns part. Hannity sets this thing up so it's rigged and endures it for a long time and Olbermann pays some charity a huge amount and those not paying attention say, "Huh must not be torture, that idiot Hannity put up with it for 15 minutes."

[Tangerine LaBamba]

31. You can see into the future?

Wow, Dave, you are just so gifted for a guy who doesn't like Keith Olbermann.

Good luck with that gift of yours................

[Hanse]

33. So you really think Hannity would last for 15 minutes of waterboarding?

Have you got the full collection of those Cyber Hannity comic books?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

36. I think it can be rigged so it appears that way and that may cause people to think it's not that bad

[Hanse]

40. Well Olbermann wouldn't be paying for faked waterboarding, now would he?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

46. No he'd just come out looking like an ass that refused to pay after crying foul.

[Hanse]

51. In what respect, Charlie?

Olbermann didn't offer money for Hannity to fake a waterboarding, he offered Hannity the money to actually be waterboarded.

This thread didn't turn out the way you thought it would, did it?

You're being fundamentally dishonest on the issue of torture.

Don't you have to ask yourself what's going wrong when Shepard Smith has more character than you do?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

58. So Hannity sets it up his way does it and then says Keith pay up.

The average joe will see Hannity putting up with it and say must not be that bad. It's just stupid and can backfire in any number of ways. Keith would be better off interviewing some real badass SF guys who have been waterboarded and will talk about how bad it is, instead of giving Hannity more play. By the way, the thread is going far better than I expected.

David

[Hanse]

64. Your original argument was that Olbermann supports torture.

You've abandoned that and now you're saying Hannity is some sort of David Blaine illusionist.

You're just digging yourself into a hole.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

68. Sometimes you have to hit the hornets nest to get things moving my friend.

So do you honestly think Hannity would allow himself to be seriously waterboarded on film? Of course he wouldn't. He's taken it so far he couldn't back down, he would have to rig it. You can't help the way you react to waterboarding, the rise in CO2 levels and the lowering of the pH of the CSF causes a uncontrollable physiologic response, you feel like you are drowning and will react that way. Do you honestly think Hannity is going to let himself be filmed pissing his pants?

[Hanse]

71. That's the point. Hannity was bluffing.

Hannity knows waterboarding is torture, and his failure to live up to his word proves it.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

76. I think there is a better chance of him having it rigged than backing down.

[Hanse]

86. I'll bet you a $1,000 per second you're wrong.

Like Hannity, you don't really believe anything you say. And I can't imagine why you'd expect anyone else to either.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

95. I hope I am. This torture doesn't need to be trivialized by a stupid rigged stunt.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

123. Then take it up with Sean Fucking Hannity...

if you're concerned about possible trivialization.

And why rely on blatant manipulation to try and get a point across? It's lazy and disingenuous.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

126. My apologies for the sleight of hand. Sadly I don't think many people ever got to the point.

[madmom]

141. Olberman also said that it would be live or with a different/other camera crew there.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

157. I'm sure Hannity will play by Keith's rules.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

78. Now that's not nice.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

85. He's a big boy he can take it.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

90. Now you're being delusional ..........

You're not anywhere near Keith Olbermann in real life.

Didn't you know that, or were you hoping to catch his eye by posting a scurrilous and stupid statement?

Oh, poor baby. The object of your desire doesn't know you're alive.

Man, you really are a piece of work. I hate that I feel sorry for you..................

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

99. I don't know where his show is taped but I would guess you are right. He's far away.

You hate that you feel sorry for me. Compassion should be cherished. Cheer up.

[Berry Cool]

136. No, Keith said that another network has to be present, not just Fox.

He KNOWS Hannity might try to fix it, so he wants to make sure there are outside observers to ensure all is done according to Hoyle, so to speak.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

139. and you think Hannity would do it by Keith's rules.

He would do it his way and then call Keith out for the rest of his life, and trivialize waterboarding all the way.


David

[ShortnFiery]

41. Use the google and find out that almost NOBODY makes it 15 seconds.

:( It is drowning and repeated water boarding causes significant brain damage.

This is NOTHING to play with and shouldn't be attempted if you have a weak heart.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

44. Remember when Chris Hitchens had it done ........

As I recall, he lasted about two seconds. It's horrifying.

I'd like to see Hannity endure it 183 times. That would be authentic, don't you think?

[Mojorabbit]

60. The part of me that is childish would like to see it

The adult part of me doesn't want the subject of torture turned into a circus sideshow between cable personalities. It diminishes what happened to hundreds of human beings who endured much more than just one technique of dehumanizing and horrifying torture.

[Berry Cool]

138. But KO isn't suggesting it as a circus sideshow

but for serious reasons. I.e., because he believes it would actually change Hannity's mind.

He does not mean it as just a stunt.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

50. and you think Hannity is going to let this be set up that way?

It's technically not drowning. It increases the CO2 levels in the body and lowers the pH of CSF, which causes an unavoidable physiologic response that I damn sure knows feels just like drowning and is probably worse because how powerless you are to do anything to stop it. I agree with you, I near drowned as a teenager and would probably have a cardiac arrest at the mention of waterboarding.

David

[Mugu]

165. The only way that waterboarding works is if the victim thinks that they will be drowned.

Hannity knows that they won't allow that to happen and that EMTs will be on hand. I used to be able to hold my breath for almost 4 minutes while being held under water. Keith just got suckered.

[Cali_Democrat]

45. You live in your own reality

Hannity sets this thing up so it's rigged and endures it for a long time and Olbermann pays some charity a huge amount and those not paying attention say, "Huh must not be torture, that idiot Hannity put up with it for 15 minutes."

Link?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

48. Strange .........

This is the kind of stuff you'd expect to find at freerepublic.com, I would think.

Some kind of pathology behind this one ......................

[Hanse]

54. Use the search function.

It's not strange at all.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

55. I don't understand ........

Search what?

Ah, never mind. Life's too short.

But, thanks, anyway.........

[Cali_Democrat]

104. FMD is strange.

That is all.

Edit: I see what you mean. I have seen Dave's other posts and lets just say he's not the most progressive chap on the block :P

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

112. People are strange when your a stranger.

I've never claimed to be the most progressive person here. I just don't want this issue to be trivialized and let slip away. That's pretty progressive I think.


David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

52. So you think Hannity is going to set it up so he's choking, gagging and begging for mercy in 5 sec?

[Cali_Democrat]

102. Well....all I know is that Hannity offered to be waterboarded "for charity."

I don't know what else KKKlannity is thinking and I don't care.

KO was calling out that chickenhawk and you apparently have a problem with that. You see, Hannity thinks there's nothing wrong with a brutal torture tactic like waterboarding.

KO, and probably 99% of DU, would love to demonstrate to Hannity that he supports a brutal torture tactic. Hannity volunteered to be waterboarded. What better way to demonstrate to Hannity that he supports torture?

I don't know why you would have a problem with that.

Maybe you're on the wrong site.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

117. Nope correct site, here is my point.

I have no problem with Keith calling him out. I personally would have preferred if Keith had gotten a couple of badass Special Forces Veterans to come on and talk about how bad waterboarding actually is, that would have really chapped Hannity's ass. My problem with this is that the bodies response to waterboarding is physiological, waterboarding causes a rise in CO2 levels in the body and decreases the pH of the CSF which is a chemical regulator of breathing, that response can't be controlled, not by anyone. Your body actually thinks you are drowning. Hannity will not allow himself to be waterboarded for real on film because he would piss himself and freak out gagging and crying. So he will either back down or rig it. If he rigs it and looks like he deals with waterboarding for any signifcant amount of time, then it stands a chance of trivializing this issue to the average uninformed person. Lastly I don't want to see anyone tortured, those repulsed by it or those lacking the intelligence to realize that it's torture.

David

[Mojorabbit]

19. I said the same thing to my husband tonight

I thought it was over the top and that torture was serious and this seemed to make a game out of it. It is bad enough seeing right wing pundits minimizing it. I was surprised he did this.

[AzDar]

22. Wait... who's an idiot?

:eyes:

[EFerrari]

25. How does calling this blowhard's bluff diminish Keith?

That's bass ackwards.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. It doesn't diminish Keith, it has a good chance of diminishing the outrage.

What if Hannity rigs this thing so he can handle it for 15 or 30 minutes? Either Keith pays up and people think waterboarding must not be that bad or he starts saying that Hannity cheated and looks like a sore loser and people still think waterboarding must not be that bad.

David

[EFerrari]

39. Hannity couldn't rig his own sneakers with help.

It'll be fine. :)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

74. He would have to rig it or back down.

The response to waterboarding is a physiologic one. Hannity isn't going to let himself be filmed pissing himself while actually being waterboarded. I hope you're right, maybe it will work out okay.

[Starry Messenger]

30. Satire should be left to the professionals. nt

[eleny]

32. Smith has been so bottled up while Keith lets it hang out every night

So when Shep blew his cork it was wild and shocking. We're used to Keith being true to himself. Shep needs a frikkin' epiphany.

[ShortnFiery]

35. Your logic is seriously wanting FMD, but this is not the first time we've disagreed.

You still have this "I love authority" big daddy loving complex going on IMNSHO.

Keith has it right to call out a blowhard such as Hannity.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. Really.

Here is my point if Hannity rigs this thing where he can stand it for a significant period of time then this stunt stands the chance of diminishing the current outrage over torture and Keith is going to come out looking like an ass. You honestly don't expect Hannity to set this thing up so he's choking and gagging and begging for mercy after 5 seconds do you?

[liberalmuse]

37. Not cool.

This is what wingnuts do, and it's dishonest. Shame on you. I thought liberals were much more open-minded than this.

[babylonsister]

49. See post #5, and don't ever believe everything you read. nt

[DS1]

38. The waterboarding Hannity volunteered for would be far less intense

than the one I, or any one of the CIA agents who gave KSM the treatment would give him.

Oh, "pour" I'm sorry Sean, how many times did you "pour" cheat on your girlfriend in "pour" "pour" highschool?

You're in Algeria now, Sean, we don't have to follow "pour" rules.

"pour", about that girlfriend you cheated on. Did you "pour" cheat on her?


Oh, you didn't have a girlfriend? Bullshit! "pour" "pour" "pour"

Had enough yet?




This staging waterboarding is bullshit, even if he does agree to it. He won't be locked in a prison with people really intent on getting info from him. He won't be in a position where he won't know if he'll live through it.

"pour" Want to fess up on cheatig now? "pour", "pour", "pour"

What? You didn't have a girlfriend in highschool? Bullshit "pour", "pour", "pour", "pour", "pour"

Fess up, fucker "pour" "pour"

Fess up NOW "pour" "pour"
"pour"
"pour"
"pour"
"pour"
"pour"
"pour"
"pour"
x170 more times

Fess up!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

59. FINALLY SOMEONE WHO GETS IT.

This little stunt stands the chance of diminishing the current outrage over torture. Especially if Hannity rigs it where he can deal with it for any significant amount of time.

David

[JI7]

70. that's not what your OP said, you claimed Olbermann supported Torture

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

82. How many people would have responded otherwise?

[Hanse]

92. So...

you're claiming you intentionally posted misleading material for the purpose of creating an uproar?

Isn't there a word for people like that? Ogre? Goblin? Something like that?

[JI7]

94. and the responses here are not about what you are now claiming to be the point of your OP

unless you were just looking for any responses and raise the number of responses in your thread rather than actual discussion of the issue.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

105. That is a shame. I guess I should have left the title and put the theory in the OP.

A lot of the people that don't like my stance on guns are apparently big KO fans. I really do think this is stupid on Keith's part though. Oh well. Shit happens.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

98. Oh, no ...............

Are you that hard up? Really?

Now I do pity you. This is no longer funny - it's just sad..................

[Forkboy]

114. In other words, trolling for a flamefest.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

119. Not really. Just an inflammatory start to get peoples attention.

I haven't resorted to calling anyone names and have tried to convey my point. Maybe my point is wrong and Keith has a brilliant strategy. I think it stands a chance of trivializing the current debate over waterboarding.

[Forkboy]

127. An inflammatory start...i.e. flamebait.

Talk about splitting hairs.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

130. I thought my final point was pretty good. To each their own though.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

79. Is this par for the course?

I'm not familiar with the guy, and he didn't seem to be a troll.

So there's a history?

I shouldn't be surprised.......................

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

89. Advanced search is your friend! n/t

[Tangerine LaBamba]

93. Thank you.........

But "Ignore" is my better friend......

:toast:

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

97. That's true in most cases! n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

121. I could only be so lucky.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

120. Come now, that's not nice.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

125. I notice you don't deny it. n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

133. I'm not a freeper. Hows that?

[Duer 157099]

63. CONTEXT is everything, isn't it

Torture is when a specific technique is applied to an unwilling participant.

The specific technique, in and of itself, cannot ever be defined as torture, because it has to be contextualized.

Let me illustrate: I think most of us can agree that having one's fingernails pulled out with pliers, is probably a technique that, when applied to an unwilling participant, should be called torture.

However, pulling all ten fingernails and all ten toenails from a deceased person, while still unwilling (we guess) probably cannot be construed as torture (except, probably, to the person performing the task).

Similarly, waterboarding a corpse probably isn't torture. You see how that works? The technique is the same (waterboarding).

The military SERE training INCLUDES waterboarding (actual waterboarding). So, do you want to argue that the military is torturing the troops? Do you? Is that what you believe? Of course not, because the troops are doing it in a voluntary environment. They have agreed to it.

Let us know when you get it, ok?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

158. I get it. Here was my point since you missed it.

I have no problem with Keith calling him out. I personally would have preferred if Keith had gotten a couple of badass Special Forces Veterans to come on and talk about how bad waterboarding actually is, that would have really chapped Hannity's ass. My problem with this is that the bodies response to waterboarding is physiological, waterboarding causes a rise in CO2 levels in the body and decreases the pH of the CSF which is a chemical regulator of breathing, that response can't be controlled, not by anyone. Your body actually thinks you are drowning. Hannity will not allow himself to be waterboarded for real on film because he would piss himself and freak out gagging and crying. So he will either back down or rig it. If he rigs it and looks like he deals with waterboarding for any signifcant amount of time, then it stands a chance of trivializing this issue to the average uniformed person. Lastly I don't want to see anyone tortured, those repulsed by it or those lacking the intelligence to realize that it's torture.

David

[omega minimo]

66. Fucking Flamebait

:puke:

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

135. Lucky bastard.

[omega minimo]

152. Well when the Mods see the "pussy" comment, they lock your fucking flamebait

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

155. I think he was talking about his cat, here was my point.

I have no problem with Keith calling him out. I personally would have preferred if Keith had gotten a couple of badass Special Forces Veterans to come on and talk about how bad waterboarding actually is, that would have really chapped Hannity's ass. My problem with this is that the bodies response to waterboarding is physiological, waterboarding causes a rise in CO2 levels in the body and decreases the pH of the CSF which is a chemical regulator of breathing, that response can't be controlled, not by anyone. Your body actually thinks you are drowning. Hannity will not allow himself to be waterboarded for real on film because he would piss himself and freak out gagging and crying. So he will either back down or rig it. If he rigs it and looks like he deals with waterboarding for any signifcant amount of time, then it stands a chance of trivializing this issue to the average uninformed person. Lastly I don't want to see anyone tortured, those repulsed by it or those lacking the intelligence to realize that it's torture.

David

[Forkboy]

69. Shep has done ONE thing right after years of peddling RW bs that enabled torture in the first place.

You couldn't have missed the point any more had you tried. And one needs to ask, did you miss it on purpose? Because saying Shep has more character than KO is about as stupid and shallow as it gets.

[GreenTea]

75. Get fucking real simpleton-Hannity will never fucking do it are you crazy? Smith is lying through

his fucking teeth believing fucking Cheney's & every other pig republicans bullshit that "we never torture"...So the idiot Smith doesn't believes water-boarding is not torture....What fucking planet are you smokin on?

Keith Olbermann called it right...Hannity trying to make publicity for himself & his right-wing republican slimy nutcase assholes, while adding more bucks to his coffers with his bullshit, and you fucking believe him & the moron Smith and then put down a progressive making a very valid observation & point such as Olbermann did quite brilliantly instead. Is this just more of your jealousy?

You so fucking gullible you deserve Fox news!!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

128. You are right he won't do it. He will rig it.

[Lerkfish]

80. I do believe KO was making a point AGAINST trivializing torture

so bad on you for not getting the point. Pay more attention to the whole clip.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

88. Yes and he stands the chance of doing exactly that.

[Lint Head]

83. I say water board the son of a bitch! Hannity is a coward.

Lawrence O'Donnald is right.

[Norquist Nemesis]

84. Between your gun alerts and now this...

did you get your jollies yet?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

107. That's a very personal question.

I think some people here got the point, some people probably put me on ignore.

[Norquist Nemesis]

110. That ignore idea is a good one!

Thanks!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

122. Anytime my friend.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[me b zola]

100. There certainly is a pattern to your posts

So according to you the man who has been relentless in his reporting to expose the truth about the torture that occurred under bush*cheney, the man who demands accountability...somehow in your regressive mind he is promoting torture? Who do you think that you are kidding? Crawl back under your rock, because no one here is buying what you have to sell.

[NoSheep]

103. No. Olberman said he'd pay to see Hannity tortured AFTER he volunteered to do it for charity.

that's a VERY different thing. Jesus wept.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

137. Here's the point. My apologies for the inflammatory start it was a little much apparently.

I have no problem with Keith calling him out. I personally would have preferred if Keith had gotten a couple of badass Special Forces Veterans to come on and talk about how bad waterboarding actually is, that would have really chapped Hannity's ass. My problem with this is that the bodies response to waterboarding is physiological, waterboarding causes a rise in CO2 levels in the body and decreases the pH of the CSF which is a chemical regulator of breathing, that response can't be controlled, not by anyone. Your body actually thinks you are drowning. Hannity will not allow himself to be waterboarded for real on film because he would piss himself and freak out gagging and crying. So he will either back down or rig it. If he rigs it and looks like he deals with waterboarding for any signifcant amount of time, then it stands a chance of trivializing this issue to the average uninformed person. Lastly I don't want to see anyone tortured, those repulsed by it or those lacking the intelligence to realize that it's torture.

David

[SidDithers]

109. It's not torture if the "victim" goes in willingly...

is in control the whole time, and can stop the exercise at any point.

Hell, it's almost extreme BDSM at that point.

It's torture when it's combined with other psychological and physical abuses, and when the victim doesn't have a way out.

Sid

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

143. Here was my point, just trying to peak people's interest with the OP.

I have no problem with Keith calling him out. I personally would have preferred if Keith had gotten a couple of badass Special Forces Veterans to come on and talk about how bad waterboarding actually is, that would have really chapped Hannity's ass. My problem with this is that the bodies response to waterboarding is physiological, waterboarding causes a rise in CO2 levels in the body and decreases the pH of the CSF which is a chemical regulator of breathing, that response can't be controlled, not by anyone. Your body actually thinks you are drowning. Hannity will not allow himself to be waterboarded for real on film because he would piss himself and freak out gagging and crying. So he will either back down or rig it. If he rigs it and looks like he deals with waterboarding for any signifcant amount of time, then it stands a chance of trivializing this issue to the average uninformed person. Lastly I don't want to see anyone tortured, those repulsed by it or those lacking the intelligence to realize that it's torture.

David

[ShortnFiery]

113. No, KO has a sense of humility, in that, he realizes his limitations. Shepard Smith

is still viewing America like an 6 y.o. views "DADDY." It's a false and deluded image.

I love my Country but after studying various sources of our nation's history, to include, Howard Zinn's "Peoples History of the US" I'm aware that we have not always been on the moral high ground. :(

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

129. I was actually impressed with Shepard, he went off. I just think KO played this wrong.

Yelling that we are the United States we don't fucking torture people.

[ShortnFiery]

169. NO, when I was a teenager, I would act with such nationalistic arrogance. A true Patriotic

American realizes that their beloved Country can only be made/kept MORAL through the vigilance of the people.

Shepard's response was immature and half-baked. However, we MUST investigate and prosecute lest the next GOP Executive Branch dust off these memos and begin anew if not "double down." :scared:

[cliffordu]

132. Dave, I agree with you about 89.45% of the time...I think you have this wrong...

:shrug:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

134. My fear was that people wouldn't get to my point. Here it is.

I have no problem with Keith calling him out. I personally would have preferred if Keith had gotten a couple of badass Special Forces Veterans to come on and talk about how bad waterboarding actually is, that would have really chapped Hannity's ass. My problem with this is that the bodies response to waterboarding is physiological, waterboarding causes a rise in CO2 levels in the body and decreases the pH of the CSF which is a chemical regulator of breathing, that response can't be controlled, not by anyone. Your body actually thinks you are drowning. Hannity will not allow himself to be waterboarded for real on film because he would piss himself and freak out gagging and crying. So he will either back down or rig it. If he rigs it and looks like he deals with waterboarding for any signifcant amount of time, then it stands a chance of trivializing this issue to the average uninformed person. Lastly I don't want to see anyone tortured, those repulsed by it or those lacking the intelligence to realize that it's torture.

David

[cliffordu]

146. I gotcha, thanks.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

147. Sorry for the confusion.

[cliffordu]

151. No problemo, good buddy.

:hi:

[Berry Cool]

148. OK, David, then read this. Please read this and comprehend it.

KO did not make an unconditional offer. He said he wants another network present when it happens. That means he is not six years old, and he is already way ahead of you in ASSUMING that Hannity and Fox would try to rig it. And he doesn't intend to LET him rig it.

Got that through your head now?

This is not just a trivial stunt to KO...quite the contrary. He really wants to prove a point here: that torture is not a child's game, and that waterboarding is indeed torture. He has simply come to the conclusion that unless Hannity actually gets waterboarded himself, he will never believe that. He won't believe it if a legion of "badass Special Forces Veterans" tell him so...he will only believe it if he experiences it himself.

That is the ONLY reason KO has made this challenge. Not as a media circus, not as a pundit stunt. But as a demonstration of REALITY. It is not going to be rigged or fixed or trivialized.

OK?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

156. I know he didn't make an unconditional offer do you have that through your head?

Do you honestly think Hannity is going to play by KO's rules? Of course not. That of course won't stop him from calling Keith out after the fact and creating a huge circus around the event and trivializing waterboarding to uninformed people.

OK?

[DS1]

140. Shephard Smith had one outbreack, Keith O has been going on about this for years

That's the difference

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

145. I agree just not that smart in dealing with this one.

[DS1]

162. I still disagree that anyone on Fox News has any more character than Keith Olbermann

Fox News is simply bullshit, even their presenters know this much.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

164. That was more rocking the boat than anything. I took it a little far, my apologies.

[Ichingcarpenter]

150. one asshole recognizes another

And both like Fox news

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

159. I knew at least one stalker would show up.

[Starry Messenger]

153. This went exactly as expected.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

160. In case you missed it.

I have no problem with Keith calling him out. I personally would have preferred if Keith had gotten a couple of badass Special Forces Veterans to come on and talk about how bad waterboarding actually is, that would have really chapped Hannity's ass. My problem with this is that the bodies response to waterboarding is physiological, waterboarding causes a rise in CO2 levels in the body and decreases the pH of the CSF which is a chemical regulator of breathing, that response can't be controlled, not by anyone. Your body actually thinks you are drowning. Hannity will not allow himself to be waterboarded for real on film because he would piss himself and freak out gagging and crying. So he will either back down or rig it. If he rigs it and looks like he deals with waterboarding for any signifcant amount of time, then it stands a chance of trivializing this issue to the average uniformed person. Lastly I don't want to see anyone tortured, those repulsed by it or those lacking the intelligence to realize that it's torture.

David

[Starry Messenger]

161. Keith often uses trenchant satire to make his points.

In case you missed it.

Hannity is about as relevant as snake suspenders, except for his ardent fans who post on the Hannidate forum.

And the correct word is "pique", not "peak".

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

163. I wondered about that one just to lazy to look it up.

[tkmorris]

167. You utterly miss the point Dave

I'll pass on arguing about whether posting intentional flamebait is blatant douchebaggery or not, I think I've already mentioned that while I disagree with much of what you post here nonetheless your postings continue to be interesting. That may well be left-handed praise, but you've never tried to don the mantle of a true Progressive anyway so what do you expect?

Strictly regarding Hannity's offer to be waterboarded, Olbermann has trumped his ace. You see, by putting up his own money he has forced poor Sean into one of two scenarios. Either A) He turns down Olbermann's offer (since he intended to rig the event in the first place, which he surely did) in which case he has no plausible explanation for doing so and Keith will smoke him for a week solid on Countdown, or B) Hannity accepts, which means Keith has every right to act as or appoint a referee to ensure that the whole thing is done for real, in which case Hannity is going to pee, poop, and vomit simultaneously on live TV. Sean can't win here no matter what he does and his little grandstanding adventure has been destroyed in one fell swoop, by a man you called an idiot.

See what he did there?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

170. My point about Keith Olbermann being stupid...for those who missed it.

I don't think Keith is dealing with this Hannity waterboarding for charity in the correct manner.

I have no problem with Keith calling him out. I personally would have preferred if Keith had gotten a couple of badass Special Forces Veterans to come on and talk about how bad waterboarding actually is, that would have really chapped Hannity's ass. My problem with this is that the bodies response to waterboarding is physiological, waterboarding causes a rise in CO2 levels in the body and decreases the pH of the CSF which is a chemical regulator of breathing, that response can't be controlled, not by anyone. Your body actually thinks you are drowning. Hannity will not allow himself to be waterboarded for real on film because he would piss himself and freak out gagging and crying. So he will either back down or rig it. If he rigs it and looks like he deals with waterboarding for any signifcant amount of time, then it stands a chance of trivializing this issue to the average uninformed person. Lastly I don't want to see anyone tortured, those repulsed by it or those lacking the intelligence to realize that it's torture.

I was trying to grab people's attention with the inflammatory OP and many missed the point. My apologies to those offended by the other OP. Keith is a bright guy but I think he's being stupid on this issue. But hell we all do stupid stuff every now and then.


David

[vaberella]

171. I saw where you were coming from. No worries....it's understandable.

I just think only extreme conditions will make Hannity understand anything...and since he volunteered himself then he can rationalize it as "not torture"----that is until he starts screaming for his life.

[Beaverhausen]

172. plenty of people have borne witness to how bad waterboarding is

Hannity and his ilk simply won't admit that Bush/Cheney did any wrong.

KO did the right thing. Hannity brought this on himself. He will be shown as the asshole he is when he backs out.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

180. I hope you're right.

[leftstreet]

173. There seems to be a lack of anti-torture teevee guests right now

from what I'm hearing

To me, what's unfortunate is that KO would even legitimize this Hannity creep's opinions.

But, these politic pundit shows are all about entertainment I guess.

[vaberella]

174. Lawrence O'Donnell was on KO last and he had a bone to pick with Hannity.

If you haven't seen it, you should. LO was straight up...he skewered Hannity and all like him.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

175. You should apologize,

and you should be ashamed of yourself for attempting - and failing - to portray someone as honorable and righteous as Keith Olbermann in the shabby, shoddy way you did.

You'll probably respond to this, because I've concluded, after watching you operate in the other thread, you're an attention whore who will do anything - including posting deliberate flamebait - to get noticed.

That's offensive and that's dishonest and that's why the Ignore function was included in my nifty membership here at DU.

I'll employ it now, and you're so hard up, you'll reply to this. If you don't, then you've possibly learned something.

But, thankfully, I'll never know, because, with what you did on that thread tonight, you were an embarrassment for DU........

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

177. At least you didn't violate any of the rules in this response, finally.

[Forkboy]

181. He did respond.

:rofl:

[omega minimo]

184. I saw enough to call it at least one offense isn't deleted. WTF is that standing?

The PHONINESS of this kind of shit is so obvious is should be called what it is.

[Name removed]

176. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Believing Is Art]

178. I can see your point, kind of

I was a little taken aback at how relatively light that segment felt. Key word relatively, it is KO after all.

But 2 points: Hannity is the one trivializing waterboarding, and I'd venture a guess that KO doesn't think Hannity will go through with it.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

179. I agree on all points.

I didn't see the segment though. My point is that it's really a no win. Hannity isn't going to play by Keith's rules and will call him out constantly if he doesn't back down.

David

[Bluebear]

182. 'I was trying to grab people's attention with the inflammatory OP' - this is new?

[omega minimo]

185. he spelled "inlfammatrolly" wrong. (Calling Colbert Watcher, here's another for ya)

[Starry Messenger]

183. Hannity has all the gravitas of a goldfish.

Turn off Fox.

[Berry Cool]

186. Oh, I got your point all right--and you are utterly WRONG.

You keep repeating and repeating this business about how Keith should have "gotten a couple of badass Special Forces Veterans to come on and talk about how bad waterboarding actually is." As if THAT would have convinced Hannity of anything!

Hannity is a fool. Fools learn only from PERSONAL experience. They do not take the word of others, no matter how "badass" they are.

I also repeat, as I did in the other thread: KO doesn't INTEND for Hannity to be PERMITTED to "rig" his waterboarding. There would indeed be no point to that. KO wants OTHER NETWORKS PRESENT so he cannot do that. Call Olbermann many things, but he ain't stupid.

Finally, KO is dead serious about this. He doesn't regard it as some kind of publicity stunt or game. He wants Hannity to understand and admit, once and for all, that waterboarding is torture, and if being subjected to the real thing is the only way he will, says KO, so be it.

Now, David, will you quit repeating the stuff about Keith "getting a couple of badass Special Forces Veterans" as if keeping on repeating it is finally going to get people like me to agree with you? Because you can repeat it all day, but it's not going to work.

Thank you.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

189. Keith isn't going to convince Hannity of anything, why don't you understand that?

It's not about them convincing each other, it's about PUBLIC perception. I realize Keith is taking it seriously, I'd say Hannity is to at this point. You are a fool if you think Hannity is going to play this on Keith's terms.