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They Added a Tracheotomy Kit to the Torture Chamber

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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:06 AM
Original message
They Added a Tracheotomy Kit to the Torture Chamber
This is a very interesting diary. Read/skim it all the way through.It's worth it.

EXCERPT:

The August 1, 2002 "2002 Techniques Memo"
This memo was written by John Yoo and signed by Jay Bybee. It provides cover for CIA enhanced interrogation techniques. It was released on 4/16/09 in response to an ACLU FOI request. Based upon information presented to the OLC by the CIA's John Rizzo, waterboarding was described as harmless:
As we understand it, when the waterboard is used, the subject's body responds as if the subject were drowning -- even though the subject may be well aware that he is in fact not drowning. You have informed us that this procedure does not inflict actual physical harm.

In keeping with the premise that waterboarding was safe, and defending why the waterboard is not torture, Bybee wrote:
As we explained in the Section 2340A Memorandum, "pain and suffering" as used in Section 2340 is best understood as a single concept, not distinct concepts of "pain" as distinguished from "suffering".... The waterboard, which inflicts no pain or actual harm whatsoever, does not, in our view, inflict "severe pain and suffering"."

Thus, the central defense of waterboarding was that it did not cause actual physical harm. It is somewhat unclear, if the waterboard is so safe, why the waterboard would require "monitor by personnel with medical training and extensive SERE school experience with this procedure who will ensure the subject’s mental and physical safety." Nonetheless, the "2002 Techniques Memo" central tenet was that waterboarding is HARMLESS...

The May 10, 2005 "2005 Bradbury Memo"
This memo was written by Stephen Bradbury. It provides revised analysis of CIA enhanced interrogation techniques. It was released on 4/16/09 in response to an ACLU FOI request.

Importantly, this memo replaced the 2002 Yoo/Bybee memos, which were withdrawn by Jack Goldsmith following the leak of the "2002 Torture Definition Memo" in May 2004. We are now learning that there was serious debate about the morality and utility of waterboarding within the intelligence services and the State Department, and an internal CIA probe by the inspector general raised numerous questions about the "enhanced interrogation techniques". Specifically, it is clear that waterboarding was anything but harmless. As cited in the "2005 Bradbury memo", the CIA inspector general noted that the original approval of waterboarding was based upon inadequate safety evaluation by qualified medical officers:
See IG Report at 21 n26 (" was neither consulted nor involved in the analysis of the risk and benefits of , nor provided with the OTS report cited in the OLC opinion ."). Since that time, based on comments from OMS, additional constraints have been imposed on the use of the techniques.

Evaluating the new constraints placed on waterboarding in the "2005 Bradbury memo" reveals a MAJOR change. "Harmless" waterboarding now required that a physician be present in the room in which the detainee is waterboarded to prevent death. Furthermore, they now included a tracheotomy kit in the room where "harmless" waterboarding was conducted:

...a detainee could suffer spasms of the larynx that would prevent him from breathing even when the application of water is stopped and the detainee is returned to an upright position. In the event of such spasms, a qualified physician would immediately intervene to address the problem, and, if necessary, the intervening physician would perform a tracheotomy.... we are informed that the necessary emergency medical equipment is always present- although not visible to the detainee- during any application of the waterboard.


A tracheotomy is a surgery in which a physician cuts into a patient's neck, slicing through the skin and into the airway (trachea, see below). Then a tube is inserted into the hole to provide an airway to the lungs.


Thus after waterboarding Zubaydah and KSM 266 times by March 2003, it apparently became clear to the CIA that in the hands of the interrogators working for the CIA, waterboarding was not the "harmless" procedure it was originally described to be. In fact, waterboarding was considered to be so dangerous by the CIA's own doctors, that they mandated a physician with an emergency tracheotomy kit be in the room while the waterboarding took place.

Failure to perform a tracheotomy in the presence of airway-obstructing laryngospasm can result in loss of oxygen severe enough to cause brain damage and death. The memos do not indicate whether or not any of the waterboarded detainees required a tracheotomy. However, a heavily censored footnote on page 15 of the "2005 Bradbury Memo" discusses what appears to be a near-death episode that must have happened with Zubaydah or Khalid Sheik Mohammed, the only detainees known to undergo "extensive waterboarding" by the CIA. This event may be the basis of the change in waterboarding protocols:
In our limited experience, extensive use of the waterboard can introduce new risks. Most seriously, for reasons of physical fatigue or psychological resignation, the subject may simply give up, allowing excessive filling of the airways and loss of consciousness. An unresponsive subject should be righted immediately and the interrogator should deliver a sub-xyphoid thrust to expel the water. If this fails to restore normal breathing, aggressive medical intervention is required. Any subject who has reached this degree of compromise is not...(censored hereafter).

MORE AT:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/4/24/723455/-They-Added-a-Tracheotomy-Kit-to-the-Torture-Chamber



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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Wouldn't it be against a medical code of ethics for a physician to participate in torture?
couldn't they be disbarred?
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. Yes, and many of us affiliated with the field of Psychology believe that the PhD's who
Edited on Fri Apr-24-09 10:22 AM by ShortnFiery
assisted these immoral ghouls should have their Clinical Psychologist licenses revoked as well.

Psychologists do not swear an oath, but I think they SHOULD - not unlike Medical Doctors to FIRST, do no harm.

As only a masters level graduate in Psychology, I was forced to seek-out special certification(s) because there are no mechanisms for licensing at our level within the field. However, any Licensed Clinical Social Workers working for the DOD should be queried as well.

Nobody should be licensed to TREAT good people suffering from mental illness if they have worked "on the dark side."

I can't understand the mindset of ANY Psychologist who could RATIONALIZE that assisting in the administration of Psychological Torture is either LEGAL or MORAL.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. Yes... and the same goes for any other medical worker
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Unbelievable.
Many of us who served in the active duty military remember the training we ENDURED regarding "field tracheotomies." I hope they replaced that lame old video where they showed the conduct of the procedure on "a goat." :wow: :crazy:

As a person who, while waiting for an ambulance for a friend with an allergic breathing emergency, was SERIOUSLY mulling over the training I had above with dire fear and dread ... well, I can say this is just WRONG on so many levels.

Hell, I don't know where to begin save for the fact if you have to RESCUE a water boarding victim via a tracheotomy = HOW CAN anybody state that such procedures *simulate* drowning? Water boarding IS *the process* of drowning.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. Any justice in this world belongs to..
the victims. I hope they find peace somehow. I can no longer use the word 'torture'..like in tortured logic, or a torturous experience. That word is forever banished from my vocabulary, only to be used in solemn reference to our governments practices on human beings.
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Towlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. In other news, The Chamber of Horrors in Niagara Falls is closed. It's just not the same anymore.
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
5. I would also be concerned about aspiration pneumonia,
induced when liquid enters the lungs. That can be fatal, as well. There is no way this is not torture.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I would also be curious that, from a medical standpoint, how many times and how long
can a person be water boarded without the subject experiencing "permanent brain damage" due to the lack of oxygen to the brain cells? :scared:
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
8. Torture plain and simple
Tortured logic to protect the criminals - plain and simple.

Throw away the key.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. Suffering is not only physical
Psychological torture is still torture.

Letting someone think they're going to die -- with them being unable to control the situation in any way -- is probably more damaging in the long run than inflicting some type of physical pain.

Would you rather be waterboarded 180 times or have a finger chopped off? The finger being chopped off is unpleasant, but it's not life threatening (necessarily), is quick, and has minimal after effects. Yet, it would be considered torture. The psychological damage from being waterboarded 180 times can be staggering and lifelong.

This is why fake executions are considered torture. Bringing the person to the gallows, putting the rope around his neck, letting him stand there for a good long time, and then taking him back to his cell. That is considered torture because of the psychological damage it does -- even though the person isn't "harmed."
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
10. Thesen are some of the stark grim details
of what our government sanctioned, the cold telling specifics in telling, specific, calculating detail, that may never penetrate and reach the average American's consciousness without both an Independent Prosecutor process- AND a public Congressional process.
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SurfingScientist Donating Member (237 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
11. Waterboarding IS drowning. It causes bodily injury. No way it CAN be legal.
Edited on Fri Apr-24-09 10:50 AM by SurfingScientist
The spasm of the larynx is a protective reaction of the body to close the airways against incoming liquids.

I am a certified EMT. There is a medical term of "dry drowning": quite some people drown without liquid actually entering their lungs. The occurence of laryngospasms clearly shows that waterboarding does not "simulate" drowning. Physiologically, it is exactly drowning, with all its dangers and dramatic and damaging consequences.

It is not simply "dunking someone's head in the water". It is inflicting the agony of death struggle, and it causes physical and mental harm. It is TORTURE.

Importantly, it also crosses the line of inflicting bodily injury. It could certainly be regarded attempted homicide, and definitely fulfills all elements of crime for causing bodily injury while *consciously accepting* the possibility of killing the victim.

I am not a lawyer, but given these facts it is *impossible under any reasonable interpretation of the law* to consider this practice lawful. Those who wrote the legal memos backing waterboarding as "legal" clearly ignored the law. They cannot defend themselves with "insufficient medical knowledge": the memos had sufficient detail on the medical complications. Plus, it is reasonable to expect that a lawyer writing a legal opinion would seek qualified advice from medically trained professionals.
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
12. Posthumus autopsies?
I was present at an autopsy where the hospital had removed the ventilator on the patient's request. I distinctly recall the ability to look at the lungs to determine that the cause of death was lack of air. I don't know if that is something that can be determined except after a short period or not. But there may be other ways. I also don't know if anyone died from waterboarding. I'm just saying there are ways of getting objective about this.
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #12
29. Yes. In the reports
it says that around 100 he prisoners did die from waterboarding. They were for lack of better terminology murdered.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/18/ex-state-dept-official-hundreds-of-detainees-died-in-us-custody-at-least-25-murdered/
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Your link says we knew this in 2006!
Thank you for posting that. I don't remember if I knew this or not. I forget so much, I don't know if I ever heard this on Olbermann's show. He must have mentioned it. The media covered this up by not reporting it. I hope Holder is as furious as I am. I don't want slaps on the wrist. I'm sitting here hardly awake. All I can think about is how impeachment was off the table. Argh!

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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. History will punish Nancy Pelosi for "Impeachment is off of the table"
I think that there is much more devastating torture that we don't know about....I don't look forward to hearing about it but it needs to aired and people need to be prosecuted.
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tomm2thumbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
13. but the doctor is there to show how much we care - and that nothing is wrong here

they were using those doctors as 'good housekeeping seals of approval' - it probably even gave the 'interrogators' more license to go 'further than that should have' because they figure - hey, there's always the ability to slice his throat and toss in a tube, or any other measure needed to pull a corpse back from over the edge.

this is like having an ambulance standing by at an airport when a disabled plane is landing - it is PRECISELY because there is great danger and chance for loss of life.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. or worst have the ambulance crew chase the plane
been there done that, and you are absolutely correct
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
14. This most disturbing thing about this
is the fact we are having the discussion at all -- discussing how far we can go before it's actual "torture."

There are some things you don't need to parse.

It's like having a discussion of how far a man can insert his penis into a woman's vagina before it's "rape." If he's tied her down and ripped her clothes off, how far he inserts his penis is really immaterial.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. +1
Equally disturbing is the glee at a gasbag chest-thumping to undergo the procedure... Bread and circuses.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. But
as long at that gasbag can tell them to stop, it's not torture. The central element of torture is the loss of control. If you're in control, it's not really torture.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Exactly my point, bread and circuses.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Gasbag has backed down
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Bread and circuses. Sports stadium events with paid bets...
Disturbing and too surreal for words.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
18. Jesus Wept.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. And I always thought the preacher was saying "Jesus swept" That was confusing
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
21. unbelievable! A tracheotomy is major surgery - were they really set up to do this at a prison camp?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yes, and in some places of the US EMT-P are trained to do it
FYI
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Jeez - a family member had to have this operation.
It was done in a hospital and took the better part of an hour...


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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-24-09 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. It is not lightly done,
but if you can't breath and they can't get a tube down due to spasm... the other choice is to watch you die
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
28. We don't torture! And we'll rip your throat open to prove it!
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
30. kicking.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-25-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
31. It's weird they'd demand a physician
Any Army medic knows how to do these. They're not that hard.
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