Uhhh, Guys, About That Yankee Liberal "Let's LET Texas Secede" Joke...

[Pamela Troy]

A lot of liberals like to say that it’s okay with them if Texas secedes. Good riddance! they declare. We can do without that hatchery of bigots and redneck authoritarians. Who needs it?

I’m going to be charitable here and assume that these liberals are saying this unthinkingly, as a “joke.” Not a very good joke, I’ll grant you – a joke kind of like what Ann Coulter says when she thinks she’s being funny -- but a joke nevertheless.

Because examining why so many Freepers and other right-wing knuckle-draggers want Texas to secede provides the very reason why so many of us should oppose it. They want Texas to secede because they want to have the “freedom” to mistreat Americans they dislike – Texas liberals, black Texans who vote Democratic, Hispanics, gays, the poor, etc. They want to live in a place where political freedom as we know it simply doesn’t exist, where their neighbors and fellow citizens are carefully vetted to only include those who hold a very specific and narrow set of opinions.

From Free Republic Threads on Texas Secession:

If Perry promises to kick all the Libs out.. it’s a done deal.. I’m there!

”If we did secede, we would have to expel all the liberals to succeed.”

A more harsh treatment might be more in order.

We have a lot of Democrat free-loaders in the cities now. I would love to see a line of buses to transport out the people who don't believe in states' rights.

Just remember this liberal media..You are any of your ilk will not be allowed in our country..no Terrorist, no Commies, no Muslims..We won't give these so called special interest groups a chance. we need to let every one know what will be ahead of them if they decide to stay on the outside....If you want to be a citizen of this state you all of you will have to pass a test..and a back ground check..

Hopefully Texas would become aggressively anti-Leftist and not beat around the 'Bush' so to speak and just flat out - outlaw any sort of LeftWingNut-ism whatsoever. Its time to just put a stop to the advance of Marxism. Anyone who didn’t like it - gets dumped on the border or put on a raft and just be glad they weren’t shot for being an enemy agent.

Why do you think Uncle Ted moved here. And Chuck Norris. And the thousands from the upper mid west in the late 70’s. And the thousands from Kalifornia in the 90’s. And the thousands from Mexico for the last 20 years. And the hundreds who left New Orleans after Katrina. Right to work state. No state income tax. Decent weather. Lots of folks like those at the tea party in San Antonio on Fox. Just don’t bring your goofy liberal ideas down here to infect our state. Austin is our liberal blight. Leave the rest of the state alone.
4th generation Texan.

I believe that if we do that no one should just be able to “move” to Texas. Too dangerous. You guys should have no problems getting citizenship but visas should be issued to people who would have the best interests of a conservative Texas and anyone coming in should be able to show ability to support themselves or have a sponsor...meaning Texans that will help the immigrant get set up...no public housing, government assistance, free health care etc. JAT What do yall think?

I can almost guarantee the social programs would stop overnight, and anyone who didn’t like it would be dropped off at the east/west borders - on the other side of the wall.

We in Texas must take care to properly indoctrinate our new arrivals and to use what ever tactics necessary to convert them to being Texans or convert them to being gone. Don’t let the same thing to Txas happen, which has happened to Florida, Arizona and Nevada, where the local culture was overrun by “Damn Yankee” “Damn Mexican” or “Damn Californian” immigrants, who are trying to convert the states to Liberal Blue.

Wonderful idea, let us Texans declare war against the rest of the US, and gradually take back our country, one state at a time, and we can let the bluest of the blue to last, while they starve.

”What are you going to do with Austin? ;-) "

Fumigate it, and what does survive, gets put on a work farm...

Gas ‘em to death or stick them in labor camps… Hmmmm… I’ve heard that somewhere before…

We need to keep up the pressure. The Libs are LIVID...and some may even be afraid of We the People who believe in the Constitution as written by our Founding Fathers...including the 9th and 10th Amendments!!! What a good warm feeling that gives me!
Keep Your Powder Dry Patriots!!!

Actual secession is, of course, highly unlikely. What’s disturbing, however, is the level of personal contumely that is driving many members of the right to advocate for it. They are buying up guns. They are talking about their dreams of a liberal-free state. They are speaking of their fellow Americans, including the president, as their enemies.

There’s a lot of room here, well short of of secession, for liberals in Texas, or even just perceived liberals, to be targeted for vandalism, threats, even actual assaults.

So guys, please, don’t wish – even as a joke – for Texas to secede. You may not realize this, but saying that secession is all right with you is saying it’s all right with you that Americans be uprooted, assaulted, or otherwise abused for the “offense” of being a liberal in a predominantly conservative state.

That may seem to like an abstraction to progressives living outside Texas and the south. It may sound laughable, like something that could never happen.

But to liberals living there, especially those who remember the 1960s, it’s not an especially remote possibility.

[LaurenG]

1. Texas isn't going to secede. nt

[Pamela Troy]

9. (Sigh) Yes. I know. I make it plain I know that.

[rucky]

39. So maybe the "go ahead" joke is more about calling Perry's bluff...

as opposed to wishing for actual secession?

[Pamela Troy]

43. The "go ahead" joke is an example of people thinking it's all about abstracts.

It's not. It's about people.

What point do you imagine I'm making here?

[rucky]

47. There's no point in playing it out h if the threat is idle. n/t

[Pamela Troy]

49. ONE. MORE. TIME.

This is not about whether or not secession is an "idle" threat.

[Pacifist Patriot]

56. Hey Pamela...

some of us get it. :hug:

[Pamela Troy]

88. I know. And Thanks.

[rucky]

75. I get it.

Don't make jokes about something that's not going to happen, because if it did actually happen, it would make you look like an asshole.

[Pamela Troy]

76. No. You don't.

Don't talk about liberals as though they don't exist and don't matter.

[LuckyTheDog]

33. They don't have the guts

But, if they did secede, then the GOP would lose its biggest single source of Electoral votes. That would be a good thing. And, we'd end up taking them back and bailing them out within a generation, putting an end to their nonsense forever.

[bahrbearian]

192. They would have to get in line at the INS,

get finger printed, background checked, and if denied where would they go? We would have to have at least one county left vacant for the detainees, or reopen Gitmo

[ShortnFiery]

2. As Jon Stewart would quip: THIS IS SHIT THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

:crazy:

Wow! The issues people choose to work up a sweat over. :(

[Pamela Troy]

10. Do you understand the point I'm making here?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

61. here is one thing i agree with you on.

[Ishoutandscream2]

3. Thank you, Pamela, for bringing in some sanity

This liberal Texan thanks you for your thoughtful post.

[ShortnFiery]

6. We've got to STOP living in fear and be proud to be liberals.

Out here in rural "sweet Virginia" my neighbors fly the stars and bars and despise all that is LIBERAL.

I don't care. I may be an unabashed political liberal bordering on the socialistic pinko - but I'm no pacifist. ;)

[Pamela Troy]

21. Thank You.

I realized that there would be a lot of people skimming this, then firing off a knee jerk response without indicating they understood it. But I'm pretty sure a lot of liberal southerners and Texans are going to understand EXACTLY what I'm saying.

[alfredo]

232. Being from the south I know what "States Rights" mean.

I wonder if many of the responses from FR are actually from Texans. I know a Texas Teabagger and I know he wants segregation returned. He also wants illegals shot at the border, and the death penalty for most offenses.

[Nicole Lambeth]

8. I heartily second that.

We libs down here in Texas have not been feeling the DU love as of late. I do very much appreciate your thoughtful and well-timed OP. Thanks.

[Pamela Troy]

23. Thank you.

[Believing Is Art]

4. What would happen if they did?

And I don't mean to offend any Texans here - I'm just pondering.

Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment - all gone. Border Patrol and National Guard - gone.

They'd have no choice but to start taxing their citizens at a pretty high rate. Assuming the liberal Texans got the hell out of dodge, there'd be a revolt and that rate would be slashed to a point where Texas just couldn't provide for its citizens or protect its borders.

Hurricane, wildfires, drought - don't count on FEMA.

They'd come crawling back, and it would end up being a huge failed experiment that costs the rest of us waaaay too much.

[Pamela Troy]

13. The simple fact is, Texans in general are likely to oppose secession.

I see it as possible, but unlikely. My point is not whether or not it's going to happen. What's cause for concern is the hateful and violent attitudes towards fellow Americans that is driving it.

[Believing Is Art]

22. After reading those Freeper comments, I agree

I'm just postulating what would happen if it did. I really doubt it will - most Texans don't support secession, and I'd bet most that do would reconsider if they put real thought into the machinations of actually going through with it.

[northzax]

27. Bankrupt and part of Mexico within two years

remember, Texans don't have a good historical record against Mexico. no financial system, no education system, no taxation, no army, navy or air force? easy freaking pickings.

[AZ Criminal JD]

80. Mexicans lost the last time. At least my history book says that.

[tabasco]

244. The Texas army got arms, money and people from the US.

Without which, they could not have defeated Santa Anna.

Maybe you skipped that chapter, smart guy.

[WolverineDG]

251. Uh, yah, & also a lot of home-grown Hispanics too

Seems you missed THAT chapter, "smart guy." :eyes:

dg

[DFW]

5. There are plenty of us Texans who don't take such talk seriously

First of all, the same idiots you cite here are the biggest wavers of the stars and stripes.

Secondly, if Texas were to secede and become independent, how would we finance all the stuff
the state/nation would need? Airports, highways, law enforcement, border enforcement, coastal
maintenance, cleanup from envorinmental catastrophes, schools, etc etc. Do you think these
nut cases who sit on their porches with guns or work at gas stations while "Freeping out"
are going to be willing to leave the USA just to find out that it costs them more than their
comfortable ignorance they now enjoy? Dear me. Taxes. Ooops, wasn't secession about avoiding them?

It's a lot of loud posturing, but it's like a lot of the supporters of the Iraq invasion:
they'll cheer it on, but run for cover at the first suggestion that they enlist to join the fight.

And I've never even been to Austin.

[Pamela Troy]

14. Violent posturing often leads to violent action

Do you understand that my point is NOT whether or not Secession is likely?

[DFW]

28. I do. My point is that the posturing often hides cowardice, not a call to action

The dangerous ones are the Timothy McVeigh silent types, not teabaggers with shotguns in their pickups.

[Pamela Troy]

35. History shows otherwise.

[ShortnFiery]

30. Oh, I disagree. As a person who was "well armed" all the way through college due

to my participation in ROTC and other military training/adventure organizations, I know that many MEN especially just love to "talk smack" with nothing to back it up.

Part of being an authoritarian loving right winger is bragging about how much better, stronger and more macho you are than "the other." In the 1950s it was "The Commies" and now today it's those evil "Liberal Socialists."

There's always an object for right wingers to hate and push down in order to make themselves feel superior. Albeit I don't have "liberal" stamped on my forehead, I also don't live in fear of these "paper tigers."

IF a right winger "goes unbalanced" then IMO, it's fate and the law will punish them accordingly.

Do not live in fear ... usually - they're ALL BARK. :-)

[Pamela Troy]

36. Yeah, r back in the '60 I used to hear lots of that kind of talk in the south.

Never came to anything. No churches were firebombed. Nobody was beaten. Nobody was killed.

....right?

[ShortnFiery]

18. I adore some Texans. Most of us here miss the late Molly Ivins.

I sure miss her humous commentary and razor sharp wit. Molly Ivins :loveya:

Also, she was "such a lady" in all the good connotations that are associated with that phrase. When Frankin and O'reilly were mixing it up on a Book-Talk C-SPAN, Molly was so classy as she figuratively "smoothed the waters" in order for the audience to participate and move along.

[DFW]

25. Molly Ivins and Anne Richards

Two very great Texas women who were reason enough not to give up on us!

[tbyg52]

135. Don't forget Barbara Jordan. nt

[DFW]

179. You're absolutely right!

She was an eloquent voice for Texas for decades.

[bvar22]

213. Add Jim Hightower and Bill Moyers to the list.

!

[ismnotwasm]

7. I don't wish it

Or pay much to it. I figure another thing is it that Texas would eventually go back to being a part of Mexico. After a lot of incredible violence. Be careful what you wish for, as they say.

I agree with you, it's a horrid thing to say, and not particularly funny no matter how clever the joke.

[salguine]

11. But in keeping with the overall point this article is making,

why shouldn't bigots and hatemongers and redneck assholes have a place to call their own? I think it would be a fascinating experiment to see what would happen if they had some sort of state to call their own, where they didn't have to allow non-white people or gay people or non-evangelical Christians or anything other than hard-line conservatives. Completely wall it off from the rest of America and let them have it the way they say they want it. In fact, I think it would be fucking fantastic to watch it turn into Lord of the Flies.

[Pamela Troy]

15. Because we've already conducted that, uh..."experiment."

It was called the American Jim Crow south, and the guinea pigs included countless black Americans and others who were lynched, beaten, tortured, disenfranchised, etc.

It was not "fucking fantastic." It was a horror.

You do understand that this would involve actual people, right? Human beings? Not sims?

[salguine]

63. You couldn't have more completely missed my point.

You're not talking about the same thing I mean. I'm talking about a completely autonomous entity, separate from the rest of the United States (so you'd need a passport and have to pass through customs to travel between there and the United States), where the only people there are the ones who want to be there. Call it a Freeper State, if you will, for lack of a better name. Where all of those type of people who aspire to live in that kind of community can go be in paradise. Where there are no people who aren't white, straight, xenophobic evangelical Christians, no social programs for freeloaders, no taxes (and therefore no services), no gun laws, and so forth. I think it would be interesting to put all of their social theories to the test in a hermetically-sealed real-world scenario and see how they play out.

[Pamela Troy]

77. And what makes you think it would be different from the Jim Crow South,

Which essentially had its own laws unto itself?

[Lyric]

130. Because they'd kick out all the "blacks" (a.k.a. liberals)?

And if they didn't, we'd obviously have to put in place a refugee program to get the innocent people out.

I think that if you want to make this argument, you need to stop focusing on the Jim Crow analogy, which is different because those were people who were too poor to leave, and all of the supposedly-enlightened "northern" states were still almost as racist as the southern ones, if not in explicit law, then at least in every other way. My friend Janis' parents grew up black in New York and Ohio, and their lives weren't much better than the lives of southern blacks. To pretend that severe racism was a "southern" thing is a bad place to go--Jim Crow was awful, but his silent, invisible brother John Crow up north and out west wasn't much better.

The best argument to make against supporting the idea of a Freeper state is this: how many of US had (or have) Freeper parents? Is it fair of us to condemn generation after generation of young liberals and gay people being born into Freeper families to live in such a hellish place until they're old enough to legally escape? At least here, we can find them sometimes when they're being abused by their parents and get them out to safety. Down there, they'll be lucky if they survive their adolescence. Allowing a Freeper state will inevitably lead to the vicious abuse and torment of suspected liberal and gay children and adolescents. If nothing else, it's our duty to hang onto the Freeps, because occasionally their kids need to be rescued.

[Pamela Troy]

197. Yeah, living in a refugee camp is nooo big deal....right?

Allowing a "freeper state" will lead not just to "vicious abuse and torment of suspected liberal and gay children and adolescents" but to the vicious abuse and torment of gays and liberals in general.

[Lyric]

201. The difference is that the adults can leave.

And who the hell said anything about a "refugee camp?" I said a refugee program--the Democratic version of which would involve helping these people find new homes, jobs, etc. Not living in fucking tents.

:wtf:

[Pamela Troy]

218. It's much more desirable not to require any refugee program at all,

in tents or out of them.

A lot of people here post as thought we're not talking about actual human beings whose lives would be wrecked by this. You guys seem to imagine them as movie characters, (or maybe just skins in some elaborate sim game). Hey, they can sleep on your sofa. right? or in your spare bedroom! They can start all new lives in different states! No biggie! Maybe even YOU will be in a couple of scenes, nobly assisting them in their new lives!

KEWEL!

And it'll so EXCITING, a film worthy of Speilberg, with rousing crowd shots and only a few Hollywood extras falling to the ground and pretending to be dead, or putting on a little makeup to make it look like they've been beaten, or watching a hastily constructed set burn down or be taken away that's not ACTUALLY the home they've lived in for years.

Right?

[struggle4progress]

69. I nominate Mars. It's far enough away not to affect property values

[MagickMuffin]

173. Which state do you live in that doesn't have any bigots and hatemongers and redneck assholes?.?.?

I didn't know that there were ANY states in America that didn't have bigots and hatemongers and redneck assholes.

Nice try though.

[crispini]

12. Thank you for trying to damp down the annoying detractors.

However, this talk of secession is just bullshit bluster and Texas showmanship. There are a lot of people with big mouths down here. There are a lot MORE quiet people (both Republican and Democrat) who work hard, are sensible, and just sort of roll their eyes when this kind of crap comes up.

[tammywammy]

17. ...

:thumbsup:

[Pamela Troy]

19. Yes. I know. I make it plain I know that.

My concern is the damage these "blusterers" can do. Violent blustering often leads to violent action.

[tammywammy]

26. Well, because probably those "blusters" don't even live in Texas

Secondly, I have yet to hear one person supporting secession. All this talk from libs about "Oh we can send all the repubs down there" to "we can kick all the libs out" is just stupid people talking on the internet. It's never going to happen.

[Pamela Troy]

37. I think you're still missing my point.

Are you familiar with the history of mob violence? It's relation to "bluster?"

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

16. it’s all right with you that Americans be uprooted, assaulted, or otherwise abused...

Let me get this straight - as a liberal, you want to live in a place where you perceive this to be a legitimate fear? Really?

Either you're knowingly being melodramatic or you've laid out exhibit A for having Texas secede - to provide cover and reason for good liberals to get out of harm's way.

[Pamela Troy]

32. I currently live in San Francisco. But yes, strange as it may seem to you,

I could very well want to live in the south again -- close to my liberal parents, and my liberal siblings.

I love the south, in spite of its politics. I love the food, the weather, the landscape, the people, the music, the culture, etc. Faulkner, Capote, Welty, O'Connor, Hellman, Jarrell, Chapell, all of them. All of it.

Do you consider all those black Americans who remained in the south during the Jim Crow era "stupid" for not moving away?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

44. I consider anyone unnecessarily living somewhere they legitimately fear for their lives stupid, yes.

Again, this is predicated on the OP saying that it's a legitimate fear to be killed, hurt, or forcibly uprooted. If that's really the climate you truly believe you live in, and you don't need to live there (ie, there are no legal or immigration issues forcing you to stay there), yeah, you're dumb to risk your own life and livelihood. What the fuck is the point of having great culture or weather if you're going to be brutalized?

Would you live in Darfur? I mean, that place might be nirvana to some people, but you have to risk being raped and killed to live there. Same principle applies, if to an albeit diminished degree, if you honestly believe, as your OP suggests, that things are really that bad in Texas.

[Pamela Troy]

46. So all those black southerners in the '60s were stupid?

Yes or no?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

50. I think I made myself rather clear.

If you risked life, livelihood, and limb to live in a place you genuinely thought was extremely hostile to you and you had the option to live somewhere else, then yes, you were dumb. Not all black southerners believed it was "that bad" and some thought it would be the same anywhere else. That's not dumb - that's making a calculated decision. Some undoubtedly were dumb, but all people do have a penchant for acting stupidly.

You, on the other hand, state that you believe things really are that bad. That means if you were living in Texas, amid all that believed hostility and you didn't have to do so, yes, you would be a moron.

Once again, this is all predicated upon believing the conditions to truly be that bad. I don't think Texas is really that bad and I think you're taking the ramblings of a few morons to paint an overtly bleak picture. Or you're being intentionally melodramatic. Either way, if YOU believe it's that bad, you shouldn't be living there.

[Pamela Troy]

53. I assure you, black southerners were painfully aware of exactly

how dangerous it was for them. The lynching epidemic made that quite plain. Why do you think most black Southerners did not even attempt to vote during the Jim Crow era?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

68. I'm sure the vast majority did know.

So that leaves a few reasons why those people didn't leave:

1) Couldn't for various reasons.
2) Didn't think it'd be any different anywhere else.
3) Unknown perfectly legitimate reason. I'm sure I'm not thinking of one or two.
4) Dumb. If you're going to try to argue that people are never dumb, that's a very losing argument, I assure you.

For your OP, it sure sounds like you can, and it also sure sounds like you do think it's different elsewhere.

[Pamela Troy]

78. And who are you to denounce these reasons as stupid or uncompelling?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

89. I didn't.

I said the reasons listed besides "dumb" are calculated decisions.

[Pamela Troy]

92. You've put the onus on the minority living in the hostile area.

In other words, you're blaming the victims.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

96. Are you saying victims can't be dumb?

Just because someone's an idiot, it doesn't absolve anyone else of guilt, nor does it make one "guilty" - it just makes you dumb.

Likewise, having a crime committed against you doesn't absolve you of being a moron. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. And just because you have the right to do something, that doesn't make it the smart thing to do.

[Pamela Troy]

198. I'm saying that labelling an oppressed minority "dumb" for being oppressed

is rotten.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

259. Which is fine, but that's not at all what I'm doing.

You either have a reading comprehension problem, or you are very quick to see hostility where it doesn't exist. Given that you started this asinine thread, I'm guessing it might be both.

[csziggy]

62. The key is if "you had the option to live somewhere else" in your statement

The same as in the Jim Crow South, many people simply do not have the option of moving somewhere else. They just do not have the resources financially or emotionally to leave everything they have ever known and move to another part of the country.

There was a huge movement of Southern African Americans out of the South to the North and Midwest for jobs in the first half of the twentieth century. But in many cases, they found the same racism and discrimination in their new locations as they had in the South - and they had left family behind. Remember, in the '60s, there were riots up North and in the West - just as there were demonstrations in the South.

Some of the same families who could not leave the South back then are still here and are important parts of our communities. They have worked steadily over the last hundred years to change the part of the country where their ancestors have lived since slavery and make it theirs. I met many of them during the campaign last year. Many of those families were essential to our local campaign in registering new voters and mobilizing people to vote - they knew who was not registered because they never thought their votes would be counted.

I also met African Americans who had left the South during the 50s and 60s and have returned - one man kept himself apart from the campaign and was thrilled when we won here in Florida. He never thought Florida would go for an African American candidate in his lifetime. Obama would not have won Florida or as much of the South as he did without all those people.

In the case of Texas, what about the Hispanics whose families have been there before the Americans ever arrived? Should they leave the land that they have lived on since the Spanish took it from the Indians? What about the Indians - what few there are left in Texas - they have survived many efforts to remove them and they should leave their land?

The idea of Texas seceding is idiotic. So is all the rhetoric that the right wingers are throwing around. The best we can do is to marginalize them more than they already have done to themselves and keep a close eye on them in case they do act out on their rhetoric. Giving them more legitimacy just encourages their rants. They are a fringe that is diminishing - that is why they are getting shriller.

[readmoreoften]

234. If you think 45% of the people in the South are "stupid" for living their you're either

excessively timid or excessively arrogant. Talk about blaming the victim.

Have you ever BEEN to Texas? I've faced more homophobic violence in NY than Texas. I'd rather live in a major city in Texas than in a small town in the Northeast.

People live where they can afford to live, where they grew up, where their families are, where their jobs are. They don't skip town because a gang of freepers live in their neighborhood. New Jersey has quite a collection of hate groups and growing up I regularly saw swastikas spray painted on buildings. Were we "stupid" for not moving to New York City or San Francisco? Or were we just a working class family who moved where we could afford.

Over 40% of Texas voted for Obama. Are 40% of the state supposed to leave? Including Mexican-American Democrats whose families were here BEFORE the Freepers?

Saying people should leave Austin because some dumbass freepers in Texarkana or Amarillo are planning reactionary violence is about as dumb as saying that people should leave Greenwich Village because Michael Savage's radio program is gaining popularity in Queens.

[tammywammy]

246. ...

:thumbsup:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

260. I'm arguing that it's not that bad in Texas.

Perhaps you should read the whole thread.

[misanthrope]

235. So you'd be hanging out with those dead people?...

...You know, you can read books by all those authors without being in the South, you can get Southern food and listen to Southern music outside the South?

I've lived in Alabama all my life and I fucking hate it. I don't like the people I meet, the music that's available, the landscape, the oppressive weather, the fear-based culture, etc. I'm sick of it. However, I can't leave without sacrificing my marriage.

Now firmly in middle age, I won't go to a general practitioner for regular check-ups because I just plain don't give a damn how long I live if this is where I have to do it.

Tell you what, I'll trade places with you. You can have my nowhere life in a hotbed of conservatism and xenophobia and I'll take yours in a town considered one of the most beautiful and livable in the Western Hemisphere.

[Pamela Troy]

237. My relatives are not "dead people."

M: ...You know, you can read books by all those authors without being in the South, you can get Southern food and listen to Southern music outside the South?

Not the same.

M: I've lived in Alabama all my life and I fucking hate it. I don't like the people I meet, the music that's available, the landscape, the oppressive weather, the fear-based culture, etc. I'm sick of it. However, I can't leave without sacrificing my marriage.

Your point being...?

M: Now firmly in middle age, I won't go to a general practitioner for regular check-ups because I just plain don't give a damn how long I live if this is where I have to do it.

Why do you hate your wife so much that you're willing to risk putting her through the unspeakable hell of watching to slowly die from an illness that could have been caught early and prevented?

M: Tell you what, I'll trade places with you. You can have my nowhere life in a hotbed of conservatism and xenophobia and I'll take yours in a town considered one of the most beautiful and livable in the Western Hemisphere.

I suspect you'd be just as miserable here in San Francisco.

[misanthrope]

249. Thanks...

M: ...You know, you can read books by all those authors without being in the South, you can get Southern food and listen to Southern music outside the South?

Not the same. -How? How is it not the same? The words, the notes, the flavors are all the same. The sweet tea I had in New Mexico was as good as much that I've tasted in Dixie.

M: I've lived in Alabama all my life and I fucking hate it. I don't like the people I meet, the music that's available, the landscape, the oppressive weather, the fear-based culture, etc. I'm sick of it. However, I can't leave without sacrificing my marriage.

Your point being...? -That not everyone here likes it. Some of use are "trapped" for various reasons. It alludes to your argument with the other poster about how and why people can't escape.

M: Now firmly in middle age, I won't go to a general practitioner for regular check-ups because I just plain don't give a damn how long I live if this is where I have to do it.

Why do you hate your wife so much that you're willing to risk putting her through the unspeakable hell of watching to slowly die from an illness that could have been caught early and prevented? -Why did she "hate" me so much that she lied to me about her intentions in life, her religiosity, her willingness to seek help for her anxiety disorder and neuroses, her desires to relocate?

And for the record, I do have a terminal disease that sucks up my resources but will take a while to do me in. My pulmonologist has suggested relocating to another region that would be better for my health. My wife doesn't seem to let that influence her decision to stay here so she can be under her family's wing.

M: Tell you what, I'll trade places with you. You can have my nowhere life in a hotbed of conservatism and xenophobia and I'll take yours in a town considered one of the most beautiful and livable in the Western Hemisphere.

I suspect you'd be just as miserable here in San Francisco. -You're right. Why would I want to go somewhere with all types of art, theater, museums, music, restaurants you name it when I can sit here in Bugtussle and listen to people try to "out-conservative" each other? Just because this little town has three talk radio stations filled with right wing vitriol and the local Tea Bag Party (which might as well have been titled the "outraged we have a darkie in the White House march") drew more people than towns twice its size, why should it dissuade me from enjoying all of that wholesome, red-blooded American goodness? Just because the locals want to dismantle the public school system because it's only for poor whites and blacks, why shouldn't I have faith in it?

Just because the emissaries of this place are women dressed in "Scarlett at the barbecue" attire, because I pass antebellum mansions festooned in Confederate decorations or because one of the most celebrated historical figures is an unrepentant Confederate admiral or because, as I type, there are government-sponsored banners waving from the light poles downtown with the "rebel flag" on them declaring this Confederate History Month, why should I think about all of that?

Why should I care that I am effectively disenfranchised? My votes for POTUS have never counted as my electors have always voted for "the other guy." I've never voted for a winner for the U.S. House or Senate as they are always the most rightward candidate? My appearance at the polls has become little more than a charade, but still I go.

Tell me, if the South is so wonderful, why did you ever leave?

[Pacifist Patriot]

58. Are you serious?!

No one would want liberals to live in a place where they are perceived to be a legitimate fear, but it is not the liberal's responsibility to leave. Secessionists and other crackpots inciting hatred are the problem, not the liberals. Why should they be given the upper hand?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

90. If it's not your own responsibility to live somewhere safe, who's responsibility is it?

And, by definition, said government of that someplace is either incapable or unwilling to do anything about it.

[Pamela Troy]

94. The onus falls on the people doing the oppressing.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

97. But the people doing the oppressing are clearly not living up to their responsibility.

And since you know that this is the case, why are you relying on them for your safety?

[Pamela Troy]

199. I'm not. I'm relying on the laws of this country and the federal government,

who successfully intervened in the south during the 60s.

[Pacifist Patriot]

105. U.S. Constitution trumps the secessionists in Texas.

I suspect our federal government would have something to say about it if the government of Texas were to provide a power outlet for secessionists. All this being hypothetical of course.

I am seriously blown away that you would be willing to write off Texas and put the responsibility on liberal Texans to abandon their homes and their livelihoods. Astounding, just astounding.

[TexasObserver]

111. Agreed. It's ludricrous beyond words.

A friend jokingly asked me what would happen to all those soldiers at Ft. Polk if Texas seceded.

I told him "they'll be surrounding Governor Goodhair's home with tanks, will arrest him, and will deliver him to the US Justice department."

The whole notion is idiotic, and based entirely upon Perry's failure to understand that the right to secede was never a right of Texas. The reality is about one quarter of Texans would say they would support secession, but if push came to shove, that would dwindle to maybe 5%.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

181. The OP argues that the conditions are thus right now.

Tell me what the Constitution is doing down there or what it should be doing. And the OP's point is that if Texas seceeds, it gives these assholes a greenlight to do whatever they want - which means the U.S. Constitution would have no jurisdiction over them.

You are simply not reading what I wrote.

[TahitiNut]

20. ”If we did secede, we would have to expel all the liberals to succeed.”

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.


:hide:

[baldguy]

24. The joke is RWers bringing it up & supporting it

In SPITE of the obvious stupidity of the idea. And the thin-skinned Dem "moderates" getting themselves in a tizzy when the RWers are called on their obvious stupidity.

[northzax]

31. yep

when your enemies are hanging themselves, I suggest providing more rope. this is a continued invitation for wingnuts to keep talking about how much they hate America. keep it up, boys and girls.

[Pamela Troy]

34. It's a "joke" that nobody actually familiar with the history of political violence

in the south would consider funny.

[Uben]

29. The vast majority of Texans don't feel that way

Only a few of the right-wing knuckle draggers are mouthing this crap. I was born, raised, and have always lived in Texas. I have always been a democrat, as well. I live in a community that is 95% republican..not country-ass republicans who don't really follow politics, but an affluent community of republicans that include activists that went to Florida to protest the election in 2000 and to the RNC convention in 2004 (remember the purple band-aid lady? She lives here). I have not heard even one thing ever mentioned about secession. The ones yelping about secession are the idiots (and yes, that includes Perry). The people who don't have a friggin clue about how politics work...all they know how to do is drink and cuss. Complete sentences seem to elude them. You know the ones I am talking about.

I don't get offended by those making jokes about letting Texas secede. I have a skin so thick you can't cut it with a machete! I think older dems must have to have survived the Reagan and Bush years. I have poked fun at other states for one reason or another, and turnabout is fair play. So don't get pissed when I fire back a zinger about your state...and I will! Ha ha ha! We gotta have a little fun every now and then or we'll all go crazy...like those Kali-fornians!

[rucky]

73. Which is exactly why:

a) It ain't gonna happen.

b) If it did happen, it wouldn't play out as the OP describes.

Perry did this to give the wingnuts another reason to get themselves in a froth. They're going to do what they're going to do - and will always be marginalized - with or without succession.

[Trajan]

38. I should have read more closely ....

Look .... We love you Texas Liberals - But I find it difficult to imagine a great uprising of Liberal pique large enough to draw battle lines against the vicious secessionists that run your beloved state.

NOBODY is going to take up arms against them ....

It is regrettable that good Liberals fear living within the state they apparently love, but most NON Texan Liberals would frankly offer to start building that fence ...

I have moved my family 3 times so far to find suitable employment, and I would do so again to find a suitable political environment, if necessary .... I understand that this situation is VERY uncomfortable for you, but we all must adapt to the realities as they exist.

Texas is NOT a friendly state for Liberals, and it is not expected to become one any time soon ....

I feel for you, but the situation is out of your control, and perhaps Liberals in Texas might need to reconsider their citizenship there ...

OR .... Proceed to persuading a good many Texans that Liberalism is good and Conservatism is bad .... I dont see that happening ...

[Pamela Troy]

40. I'm not positing a liberal uprising.

This is about the realities behind the drive for secession. No, secession is not likely to become a reality.

But the violent attitudes driving the rhetoric behind secession ARE real, and most southern and Texan liberals know it.

[WolverineDG]

216. Since you're so smart, why not come over to the Texas forum & show us dummies how it's done?

Please. :evilgrin:

dg

[tammywammy]

231. Because all of us progressive/liberals in Texas just sit idly by doing nothing

Or, how about stopping by the Texas forum? Or doing some damn research? Or Jesus! Get off your ass and help us in Texas...oops that would require doing something.

You do realize we get no support at the national level right? That we had an awesome guy running for Senate and he got no help, while the national party gave millions to incumbents? He got NO help trying to unseat Cornyn.

But then, obviously, you already knew all of that, since you're so well educated on what's going on in Texas politics.

[Trajan]

240. I moved from Springfield, Missouri to Portland, Oregon

because I did not like the socio-political environment in that place ... it simply didnt suit me or my family ...

Color me lazy or whatever, but I am no Ghandi nor Jesus ...

I have no control over you or the good people of Texas ....

I did not pledge any intellectual superiority regarding the state of Texas, nor did I besmirch the reputations of the Liberals there ... So I do not understand where your angst towards me comes from .... But I frankly do not care ....

If the people of the state of Texas decide to peel away from the rest of the union, then I greatly doubt that I, nor a good many Liberals from without the state, will be willing to take up arms and stop the secession, should it come to pass ...

You want to change texas ? ... fine: change texas .... That is YOUR calling, not mine ... I cede the state of Texas to the lot of numbskulls who happen to control it ... I am ultimately powerless to control their behavior, and so I wont waste my time worrying about it ...

You want to call that lazy ? ... fine: I call it realistic ... We go after what we can actually achieve, without spending energy uselessly on pie-in-the-sky notions of what effects or impacts we can or cannot create in different places on our world ...

You dont like the right leaning government in the state of Texas ? ... change it ....

I have my own crosses to bear .... It's up to you to change it, live with it, or get the hell out of it ...

[WolverineDG]

252. Excuses, excuses..... nt

[Trajan]

261. Whatever ....

Stew in your own juices ....

[WolverineDG]

262. Yeah, that's easier for you to do than actually DOING something nt

[Joanne98]

41. Couldn't we pull the good guys out then send them back when it's been cleared.

Sounds like a good deal to me. They'd end up with their property. lol

[Pamela Troy]

42. I'm talking about reality here.

You seem to be talking about abstracts.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

52. I question how much "reality" is in your post. (nt)

[Pamela Troy]

54. Think those pictures at the bottom of my post are of fictional characters?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

91. They are, what? Three out of how many Texans?

Put a number to the sociopaths and then we can talk.

[Pamela Troy]

95. Do you even know who they are?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

99. Rather irrelevant to my question. (nt)

[Pamela Troy]

200. I'll take that as a "no."

Don't you think you should actually bone up on the history of certain issues before posting about them?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

258. No, I think you should bone up on reality.

It ain't THAT bad, and if it is, stay away. Period.

[Paladin]

119. Put A Figure To Your Rabid Texas Hatred, If You Can Count That High.

You like numbers? 3.5 million Texans voted for Obama. Surveys indicate the state is headed back toward a Democratic majority. Not that any of this matters to somebody with the views you obviously hold.....

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

180. Hey dipshit, I'm arguing AGAINST the OP.

I'm the one saying it's not that bad in Texas. Get a grip, asshole.

[Paladin]

190. OK, Point Taken. Sorry About That. (n/t)

[kestrel91316]

45. Well, if TX wants to secede and then make war on the US, they

need to remember WE'RE the ones with all the nukes.

[Pamela Troy]

48. Another person heard from who just doesn't get it.

Please actually read my post. This was not about whether or not Texas should secede.

[RaleighNCDUer]

51. The point is "Americans (are) uprooted, assaulted, or otherwise abused for the “offense” of being a

liberal in a predominantly conservative state" as it is.

Texas has already set itself apart from the the nation - with or without secession.

Not that it is alone in its barbarity, or that there are not good citizens there as well, but frankly secession will not trigger anything that is not already happening there.

[Pamela Troy]

55. Oh come now. Are you familiar with what happened to black Americans in the Post-Civil war

South after federal troops were withdrawn?

Yes, having to answer to a higher authority DOES make a concrete difference in a state's treatment of unpopular minorities, and anyone who thinks it doesn't needs to bone up on their history.

[Pacifist Patriot]

57. Frankly, I think an elected official who makes that suggestion as a response to...

intra-American political conflict should be removed from office. Last I checked we resolved this issue with the bloodiest war in our nation's history. It's irresponsible leadership at best and downright treason at worst. Inciting hatred is simply evil.

[annabanana]

59. Of course it's a joke... we assume that there isn't a viable, reasonable

secession movement either..

The Country of Texas that you're describing would be a hostile fist right in the middle of the country. We would have to take it down to liberate the inhabitants.

[Stinky The Clown]

60. Do you think that anybody doesn't really know this ...... ?

I was right there with you until you left the notion that talk of allowing Tejas to secede was a joke. That was someplace in your first sentence or two.

That's really all it was. A joke. You may not like the joke. It may have been an offensive joke, to some. But it was, indeed, a joke.

"Hahaha. Let George Bush's state secede. Hahaha. Now can we move on the next joke that's funny at someone's expense?"

No one thinks Tejas will actually secede. It can't, let alone won't.

No one thinks all Texans are right wing, authoritarian assholes. Being a right wing authoritarian asshole is not predicted on Texanitude, or Southernitude. One can easily be a Northeasterner and be a right wing, authoritarian asshole. I grew up in Connecticut. There are **plenty** of them up there. I live in "BlueBlueBlue Maryland". We're overrun with right wing authoritarian assholes. And we're not really all that blue.

This whole Tejas thing comes down to a few basic issues, whether you like them or not:

1. George Bush is widely detested and considered an asshole; he is from Tejas; that makes, in many people's minds, Texas fair game.

2. Your governor is a pandering asshole pandering to right wing authoritarian assholes, and he said an asshole thing on teevee and it got glommed upon and made fun of.

3. Your state motto/attitude/saying/whatever is "Don't Mess with Texas". Many people find that a challenge. Or take it as one. Or are offended by it.

Really. It just isn't a lot more complicated than that.

[tammywammy]

64. "Don't Mess with Texas" is an anti-littering campaign n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

156. That may be, but it comes off as a version of "fuck you"

I had (have) no idea of the genesis of the term, but that's how it plays here in Peoria ... or wherever.






The saying, "Will it play in Peoria?" is traditionally used to ask whether a given product, person, promotional theme, or event will appeal to mainstream (also called "Main Street") America, or across a broad range of demographic / psychographic groups.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_it_play_in_Peoria%3F

[tammywammy]

157. All you had to do is Google

First hit

http://www.dontmesswithtexas.org/

Since the Don’t Mess with Texas campaign began in 1986, hundreds of tons of trash have been removed from Texas roadways. But with over 23 million people living in our state, there’s a lot more to do. Check out our many programs and activities, and learn how you can help. It’s what Real Texans do.

[Stinky The Clown]

166. I would only Google if I gave a shit

I isn't my saying. It isn't my state. Why owuld I bother.

And don't get snarky cuz ya don't like the message. All you've done in your reply is attack a peripheral issue. (Its called obfuscation.) I notice you didn't go after anything substantive.

[tammywammy]

168. What attack?

I didn't realize telling someone that our so-called state motto in an anti-littering campaign, was "attacking." I didn't realize education on the basics of the state of Texas would be considered an "attack."

Also I didn't reply to the rest of your post, because frankly, it's a tired stupid argument. And see, if I had said "Your post is stupid" THAT would be an attack.

[Stinky The Clown]

169. Can the passive-aggressive crap

Grow some thicker skin.

[tammywammy]

170. I'm not the one with my feathers ruffled

It appears maybe YOU need the thicker skin.

[Stinky The Clown]

171. Actually .... no

I could care less.

I'm not the one from Texas. You're the one who chose to reply to me with some peripheral crap. I'm now just about not letting you get the last word.

But even that could change.

At the bottom of it .... I really don't give a shit and you do.

[WolverineDG]

219. Then why post at all?

If you didn't give a shit, you wouldn't have commented. Face it, you got called on your bullshit because you were wrong & didn't bother to verify what you said before you hit "send."

:click:

dg

[Stinky The Clown]

245. I didn't "get called" on "my bullshit"

I pissed off some thin skinned people who can't stand that their state is, to many, the punchline of bad jokes. I'm not saying that's good. I am simply saying it "is".

I don't think I was wrong.

I know what I wrote before I clicked send.

I stand by what I said in the original post I made.

The rest of this subthread is me yanking your (and others) ***very*** easily yanked chain while attempting to be humorous and elucidating.

But mostly .... chain yanking cuz yer so easy.

And what was that ":click:" supposed to mean? That you have me on ignore? How mature of you. Just stick your fingers in your ears and make baby noises. Same thing.

:eyes:

[martymar64]

184. Texanitude . . .I like that

It is very apropos, BTW. It transcends political affiliations. It has some negative aspects but some positive ones as well. Texans I know are warm, open, funny, articulate, musically talented, all of the positive things you find in society at large. I also know ones that are narrow-minded, bigoted, shackled with superstition. Texans do tend to have their identity almost as a separate nation, thus the "don't mess with Texas" attitude. That attitude exists amongst the Democrats here too. For the past thirty years, Democrats here have been in the political wilderness like the partisans with no help from the national Democratic infrastructure, because it wasn't considered a "safe" state. Dems here are a tough lot. I've lived in other states and I've never seen that identity issue in any other state. A recent poll had a majority of TX republicans in favor of secession, natch. I'm sure if they knew what the true consequences economically and politically were, I'm sure many of them would give it a pass. Say goodbye to NASA, all of the military bases (Ft Hood, Sam Houston, Bliss, etc) and all of the jobs supporting those bases. Say goodbye to the Border Patrol, they can deal with that themselves as the drug cartels start moving north of the Rio Grande. Life would not be pretty here. But many Texans will fight that from coming about with all of their being, the Dems that have been here fighting all this time.

[WolverineDG]

217. If George Bush's state seceeded, no one would miss Connecticut nt

[Stinky The Clown]

248. Do you feel better having said that?

It was really childish, but if you feel better, then maybe some higher purpose was served.

:eyes: whatever ......

See ..... here's the thing. Most people know he was born in Connecticut. Most people know his family are scions of old Connecticut money and served (I hate that word in this context) the state in various political roles.

But since he has so self-identified as a Texan, he, indeed, is. You can make them plaster a billboard on the road in front of his hooch with a message telling the whole truth of his background and have the teevee news tell the story every night .... and he would STILL be seen as a Texan.

I'm sorry about that.

But that's the fact of it.

[Texasgal]

221. Bush is NOT from Texas.

He may have served and lived here, but he is not from Texas.We don't claim that carpetbagger.

[Stinky The Clown]

247. Yeah?

(Yes, I know he was born in my own home state of Connecticut.)

Try getting people to make the distinction. He has so self-identified with Tejas that he is yours and you can't get rid of him.

Sorry about that.

[Paladin]

254. You're Not One Goddamned Bit "Sorry About That." (n/t)

[Stinky The Clown]

255. And you know how I feel?

Man ..... that's quite a trick.

You still gettin' residuals?

[unblock]

65. "let 'em secede" IS a joke, just as "we'll secede" is ALSO a joke.

texas just loves to talk about their state pride and the fact that they were an independent republic. but they were never really independent. america was certainly involved in the mexican-american war that created that independent texas republic, and thet 9 years of independence was really just a waiting period while applying for statehood.

they would never secede (again) because they wield so much influence over the most powerful nation on earth. they benefit from federal pork and always have, they have supplied presidents and many congresscritters and key senators going back for decades. why would they give that up? yes, they would appear to have more control over their own destiny, but they would then be hamstrung by the economic and legal barriers that would arise from national borders with states that used to be part of the same nation. their influence across the globe would be dramatically reduced.

besides, to a great extent they already have the freedom to create the state laws they like. they could get away with a few more things that the rest of us consider unconstitutional, but that would hardly trump the economic, social, legal, and practical realities that secession would imply. even assuming this could all be done peacefully.

[Pamela Troy]

82. The following is a passage from my OP:

"Actual secession is, of course, highly unlikely. What’s disturbing, however, is the level of personal contumely that is driving many members of the right to advocate for it. They are buying up guns. They are talking about their dreams of a liberal-free state. They are speaking of their fellow Americans, including the president, as their enemies.

There’s a lot of room here, well short of of secession, for liberals in Texas, or even just perceived liberals, to be targeted for vandalism, threats, even actual assaults."

What do you think it meant?

[unblock]

100. there's been a lot of animosity toward liberals in the last quarter-century, and the last 8 years

in particular. and it's been from all corners of the republican party and the right wing, not just texas. starting with calling us the "democrat party" on up to coulter saying we need more dead liberals, we've all been targeted for a long time.

it ain't just texas and it has little to nothing to do with secession. it has everything to do with the republican propaganda machine making hate fashionable.

[Pamela Troy]

202. I didn't say it was "just Texas."

And that "animosity towards liberals" has been going on much longer than "the last quarter century."

Ginning it up with talks of secession and guns sales makes the likelihood of violence even higher.

[struggle4progress]

66. Serious secessionists should immediately renounce their US nationality: that may immunize them

against later treason indictments, since after renouncing their citizenship they would no longer owe allegiance to the US. All that required is to swear the appropriate renunciation oath before a US consular or diplomatic official abroad: a quick trip to a US consulate in Canada or Mexico would do the trick

I posted some info here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5514324&mesg_id=5514324

[Pamela Troy]

83. Do you understand the point of my OP?

[struggle4progress]

103. I lived in Dallas for many years. During the entire Bush era, I had to pinch myself and

wonder whether I was merely having a flashback from some bad acid trip I took in my foolish youth: Bush was no real surprise -- he reminded me of my former neighbors, and in fact we have some common acquaintances. In my life, I have interacted with plenty of rightwing Texans, who accused me of being a godless commie traitor when I did not approve of their theology, economic theory, or imperial triumphalism. Some of the troglodytes have been quite hostile to the rest of the country: during the oil crises of the 1970s, for example, plenty of Texans slapped "Drive 90! Freeze a Yankee!" bumperstickers on their cars -- and they meant it. I know Texas has its share of violent creeps: in the Nixon era, rednecks driving past regularly tossed bottles at me from their pickups as I strolled my hippy ass down the streets

That said, I still have some very good friends in Texas, and from afar I have pleased (for example) to watch Dallas County move slowly but steadily leftwards. In addition to having some excellent people, the state also has some wonderful places -- which, of course, the right-wingers continually seek to destroy with idiotic projects such as the border fence. I visit only rarely now, but when I do I eat as much Tex-Mex as I can, because there's nothing like it where I live now

This is a political board: we are interested in power and related rhetoric. I doubt if anyone here wants to encourage the wingnuts, and I doubt if anyone here thinks Texas could or would secede. When numbskull Texans seek to organize by babbling about secession, we devise responses: the push-back "Hey! Please do! Don't let the door hit you on the way out!" is natural, if cheap and easy. There are other possible retorts: I provided one (which I personally think is hilarious) in the post to which you just responded.

[Hun Joro]

67. Thank you for this.

[FloriTexan]

70. Here's a question for you (not necessarily the OP)

This is directed to those of you with the attitude that Texas should secede or that this state is generally a republican stronghold:

Florida took a lot of beating over the last 8 years because of the antics of its Republican citizens and lawmakers. Texas is now taking a very similar beating because of its Republican citizens and lawmakers. Florida went blue this year, likely because they were tired of the repuke drivel but also because the DNC and others worked the state and propped it up with funding and boots on the ground. Texas very well could have done the same if the DNC and others propped us up a bit, but they abandoned us because they figured it would just go republican anyway so why waste the funding or effort. Despite that, many counties in Texas are steadily turning blue.

Do you think we can fight these Repukes all by ourselves! We are a minority but we’re trying like hell to turn things around. It would be nice if those of you who think we ought to just secede and surrender to the idiots here would put up or shut up. Do you have our back or not! If the effort to secede in Texas did come to violence (I’m convinced that it would because we have some real wingnuts here) would you be willing to help us fight back or come to our rescue? Would you take us into you states are refugees? Are you going to be part of the problem or part of the solution?

[martymar64]

185. Thank you! That needed to be said

Where was the DNC? They were giving all the funding to the candidates in the safe states, they cared fuck-all about Texas Dems, at least until Howard Dean employed the 50 state strategy.
How about helping the Dems in Texas fight back, people!

[nichomachus]

71. This "yankee liberal"

remembers during the oil embargo of the 1970s. People were suffering in the Northeast. Some people lost jobs. I had to drop out of grad school because I couldn't get gas to drive there. And all those moon-faced idiots in Texas were driving around in their Cadillacs, grinning and drooling with their "Let 'em freeze in the dark" bumper stickers.

Since then, I have avoided Texas as much as possible -- with the exception of changing planes at DFW.

So, I don't give a shit whether Texas stays or goes.

[FloriTexan]

84. So, you're not the forgive and forget type...

It must be easier to just stereotype every person living in this state since then as some character out of the 70's.

[Pamela Troy]

85. Hate goes down so smoooooth don't it?

[JVS]

148. Right on

[WolverineDG]

161. What did you expect for stealing oil & gas from Texas

(& Louisiana & Oklahoma?) Candy & flowers?

dg

[cherokeeprogressive]

176. "I had to drop out of grad school because I couldn't get gas to drive there"

Bullshit. You dropped out of grad school because you thought the sacrifices you'd need to make in order to stay were too great. Either that or the rewards you found available for leaving were too great to pass on. Don't blame your decision to "drop out" of grad school on anyone but yourself. Those "moon-faced" (what the fuck does that mean, anyway?) Texans didn't have anything to do with it.

"grinning and drooling". Get over your bad self, and avoid Texas. Texans don't need you.

Keep using DFW as a convenience. Texans don't mind, you're paying a tax for passing through their airport and I'm sure they appreciate all you self-proclaimed "yankee liberal" types dropping a few bucks for the cause. In my way of thinking, if you felt as strongly as you say, you'd book your flights through Denver, Salt Lake (but I'm sure you hate Utah peeps as well), or some other hub.

Chew that hate at least twenty times before swallowing, lest you choke on it.

[Paladin]

193. That's Pathetic, Even By DU Texas Hater Standards.

If you really think that Texas was to blame for the 70's oil crisis, or that Texans are a bunch of drooling, moon-faced Cadillac drivers, it sure as hell wasn't a lack of gas that kept you out of grad school.

Got any other bullshit stereotypes you'd like to share with us? Any Jewish money lenders making your life miserable these days? Are all the Italian-heritage people you know in the Mafia? That's the level of prejudice you're exhibiting here. Proud of yourself?

Heartfelt thanks to you for avoiding Texas as much as possible, nontheless.....

[LiberalLovinLug]

72. Since the Blue states fund the Red states

They won't last too long independently anyways.

[tammywammy]

74. Texas gets 94 cents for every dollar paid in. n/t

[WolverineDG]

131. Stop confusing them with the facts, tammy

:spank:

dg

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Laelth]

79. The Republican Party will never let go of 2 senators and all those electoral votes.

You've targeted the wrong audience. The left might want TX to secede, but it's the right that will prevent it from happening.

:dem:

-Laelth

[FloriTexan]

86. And you are wrong....

"The Left" generally doesn't want to secede.

[Laelth]

107. Wrong about what?

I used the word "might." I'm not so cocky as to be willing to speak for the entire "left." Evidently you are.

Do you have any factual support for your certain belief that "the left" doesn't want Texas to secede?

:dem:

-Laelth

[FloriTexan]

115. Oh...

That "might" make it okay then. All "the left" MIGHT WANT Texas to secede. I am a lefty and I do not want Texas to secede, so that would mean not all of us. Sheesh!

[Pamela Troy]

87. Please read the following passage from my OP, one too many readers seem to have skipped.

"Actual secession is, of course, highly unlikely. What’s disturbing, however, is the level of personal contumely that is driving many members of the right to advocate for it. They are buying up guns. They are talking about their dreams of a liberal-free state. They are speaking of their fellow Americans, including the president, as their enemies.

There’s a lot of room here, well short of of secession, for liberals in Texas, or even just perceived liberals, to be targeted for vandalism, threats, even actual assaults."

Do you understand the point I'm making here?

[FloriTexan]

98. I get your point and agree...

Secession is unlikely; but if it were to become an issue it bet it would incite violence. Locally, in the DFW area at least, I don't see anyone but republicans chanting secession here but its just a very, very few. Its really frustrating to see Perry's remarks being hyped up and redisseminated like they mean something. They really don't. I can take a joke, but the "let Texas secede" comments aren't sitting really well.

[Laelth]

106. I guess not.

Having lived in Texas for a number of years, I am quite familiar with Texas' long and strong liberal tradition, and I think Texas progressives can take care of themselves, as they always have.

I don't think they're any more or less in danger now than they have been for the past 100 years.

:dem:

-Laelth

[tammywammy]

110. Shush

Apparently I'm supposed to drive home in fear.

[Laelth]

112. Evidently. LOL. n/t

:rofl:

:dem:

-Laelth

[FloriTexan]

116. Just keep an eye out for them thar...

drivers with yankee license plates they might be comin to help the red staters kick us liberals out of Texas.

[tammywammy]

118. I better scrape off that damn Obama bumpersticker real quick n/t

[Pamela Troy]

203. Sorry, but I disagree. And I'm not naive about the politics of both

Texas and the South. I was born and raised in Louisiana, and in the '60s, I watched the horrible results of violent rhetoric being played out in actual violence.

It CAN happen here. And it has.

[martymar64]

187. In Texas, liberals carry guns as well

Gun culture is another aspect of Texas that transcends political affiliation. Texas has relied on guns throughout its history due to the absence of law during its frontier days. People needed to defend themselves against marauders of all stripes, whether Comanches, banditos or Outlaws. The Wild West was a reality here. That attitude and tradition survives to this day.
So, if the RW idiots that want to kill liberals (let's just call them what they are, terrorists) come our way, we'll be here to greet them, locked and loaded.

[Pamela Troy]

204. NOT reassuring.

[TexasObserver]

93. Thanks. I find such threads as this very useful.

Such threads are like fly paper, and catch a healthy share of posters that I immediately add to my Ignore list.

I refuse to read posters who engage in region or state bashing. In my view, anyone who engages in such postings doesn't deserve to be read, so I eliminate them from my screen. Doesn't matter if it's Texas, the South, Florida, Alaska, San Francisco, or any other place. Anyone who makes such posts doesn't have the intelligence to justify reading their posts, so I encourage all of you to place those posters on Ignore.

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[struggle4progress]

158. You realize, I hope, that Democrats control the state government here in NC, and that

nine of our fifteen federal representatives and senators are Dems. We showed Libby Dole the door last November, and we handed Obama 15 electoral votes. The state as a whole is more conservative than I would like, but the part of the state I live in is one of the best educated and bluest parts of the US: see the little solid blue square in north central NC?

http://www-personal.umich.edu.nyud.net:8090/~mejn/election/2008/countymappurpler1024.png
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2008/

[Pacifist Patriot]

109. LOL! I too find them useful for just that reason.

[TexasObserver]

113. fly paper!!

Can you imagine taking the position that Delaware is a slave to corporate interests, so Delaware ought to secede and that would screw up all the big corporations that are legally formed in Delaware?

We have more than our share of rightwingers and their politics in Texas, but we have a healthy share of those who are not, too. Haters rail about Texas because they're haters, and it's in their nature to be pissy.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KamaAina]

104. And besides, if they did, 'King of the Hill" would have to be shown on PBS

you, know, like those "Britcoms". :-)



Keep fighting the good fight. You know Molly would have wanted you to. And the rest of us (most of us, anyway) are "much obliged".

[John Kerry VonErich]

108. I remember in 2003 or 04....

Vermont took a poll at a convention to see if the state should seceed. The majority voted in favor of it.

[Ken Burch]

114. Look I started one of those threads, and I did mean it as a joke

No offense intended, and apologies for any caused.

I guess it was just looking, that day, like history was pretty much over in the Lone Star State and that the place is gonna be right wing forever.

Perhaps, though, the "splitting Texas into six states" thing that's in your state's constitution might be a better choice, or at least splitting it North from South. I mean, it's reasonable to think that South Texas might get back in touch with its inner Hightower, but can anyone even think anything progressive could ever happen in North Texas? Aren't places like Waco and Crawford and Amarillo pretty much permanent dead losses? Maybe using the six state option could at least hive the crazies off.

The thread I started was a sardonic joke, and if there was any chance that Texas actually COULD secede I wouldn't have made it. Didn't think of the other consequences of which you spoke.

I blew it and I admit it. Sorry.

[tammywammy]

117. Then you haven't been paying attention

Texas is purple.

"can anyone even think anything progressive could ever happen in North Texas?"

Dallas County is all democratic. The sheriff is a Hispanic lesbian. Fort Worth is more red, but just a little work and it'll turn more blue.

I think you're overlooking a bunch of blue parts of the state, Austin (obviously), Houston, El Paso, the Beaumont/Pt Arthur area.

[FloriTexan]

120. And, again,

if the DNC and other non-Texas Dems hadn't given up on us during the election, if they had put a good number of boots on the ground here like they did in Florida, and if they spent some money here, we very well could have gone Blue. So again, to all those non-Texas democrats who keep crapping on us because we're not totally blue, you can't reap what you don't sow so put a sock in it.

[tammywammy]

121. Yep, where was Noriega's help?

The Clinton's asked for it, yet Schumer thought it better to spend millions on incumbents than unseat Cornyn.

[Paladin]

124. Fuckin' A, FloriTexan. Well Said...... (n/t)

[WolverineDG]

128. +1

:thumbsup:

Maybe if we keep repeating that mantra, it will start to sink in.

dg

[Ken Burch]

141. They could've brought in thousands of Dems from California or other safe states

Or perhaps done a special fundraising thing to enable the party in Texas to hire more full-time locals to work in the campaign. Having people there with enough time to do the work is a problem in a lot of states.

As I understand it, though, part of the problem has been that your own state party leadership hasn't really been all that interested in rebuilding. A lot of them are comfortable in a "junior partner" status with the GOP, from what I can see. Hopefully, you can get those types out of the leadership at some point.

[Ken Burch]

127. Well, that's why I made the North Texas/South Texas distinction.

n/t.

[Texasgal]

146. Don't forget the Rio Grande Valley

Blue as the day is long! :P

[WolverineDG]

129. That "joke" stopped being funny the 20 millionth time it was posted on DU

and especially after Hurricane Rita, when many DUers let it be known they didn't give a rat's ass if everyone in Texas drowned.

dg

[Ken Burch]

134. I guess I hadn't realized the joke was that old.

Thought the jokes basically started when Big Hair Perry started shooting his mouth off.

[WolverineDG]

136. Then you haven't been paying attention nt

[TexasObserver]

140. Thank you.

For that.

[Ken Burch]

144. Well, when you're wrong, you're wrong and you might as well admit it, I always say.

And I was wrong on this.

[TexasObserver]

145. It's just so ... RARE here!!

:)

[ProgressiveFool]

122. Jesus, don't they realize what they sound like in their own comments?

How fucking obtuse can they get? There's at least 14 points of fascism in just that brief sample of quotes.

"Welcome to the Republic of Texas, where you're free to think the same as everybody else is thinking or get the fuck out."

Texas is better than that.

[Waiting For Everyman]

123. Secession isn't allowable. It's bullshit.

The Civil War settled that. The RWers can go whenever they want, but Texas ain't goin' nowhere. It isn't theirs. It's U.S. territory. Period.

All discussion of this is fantasy. It doesn't matter who cares or doesn't care.

edit: I know the point you're making OP, but dignifying this idea as remotely doable, is a big part of the problem too.

[Pamela Troy]

205. (HEAVY SIGH) Yes. I know. (she said for about the fifth time.)

Did you read the part of my OP where I make it plain I think secession is unlikely?

[Caliman73]

125. I tend to think of it as a knee jerk reaction

Texas does get a great deal of bad press, some deserved, some not, just like any other state. I chalk it up to a frustration response at the stupidity of the idea that any state could successfully leave the Union without drastic consequences. I think you are right about the motivations of the extremists who would espouse the idea of secession. They are deluded in thinking that they will somehow be able to survive on their own or that they will inspire similar responses from other states. perhaps some would follow, but this is very different time than the 1860's. I tend to remember that the Confederacy was much more hated for being Secessionists than for their stance on slavery.

It's kind of like when you as a child tell your mom that you are running away, and she packs your bags and says, "good luck" and opens the door.

[ZombieHorde]

126. Some solid points which made me think, thanks for the post. nt

[hangman86]

132. What if you're thousands of miles away from Texas in a liberal oasis

aka Massachusetts. Is it alright to make a little joke about Texas succession while sitting with your liberal buddies at your favorite independent coffee shop, sipping your latte, and eating tofu? Maybe you can slip in a small joke in between debating the films of Kurosawa vs. Fellini and a discussion of the positive aspects of Marxism. God I am such a Masshole. :rofl:

[Pamela Troy]

207. Who did you think I meant by "Yankee Liberals?"

[librechik]

133. I'm only upset that they can't take FL, MS and AL with them when they go

i'm bad, i know

[TygrBright]

137. Thanks Pamela. I love Texas. And Texans.

But then, I come from a family and a state where being "different" is a badge of honor, and, let's face it, when it comes to the general run of the mill America, Texans are different and proud of it.

Sure, some of 'em are like your obnoxious uncle who invariably gets drunk and insults the company at a holiday dinner. On the other hand, some of 'em are like the folks who show up after the tornado to help you rebuild, no thanks needed, no fuss made.

Texas is fun. Texas is so big that saying "Texas is" is axiomatically incorrect. Bluebonnet country is not El Paso; San Antonio is not Houston. Texas is the home of wonderful people, wonderful food, wonderful music-- many kinds of each.

We need Texas to come up with a shrewd, libertarian, ornery, individualist, plain-spoken kick in the seat now and then when we're gettin' too big for our civilized, let's-be-nice, don't-make-waves britches.

Things happen on a larger scale in Texas, and that means sins and sinners as well as saints and silliness. Sure, they gave us the never-to-be-sufficiently-reviled Bush and Delay and Gramm and a few dozen other criminals. They also gave us Jim Hightower and Molly Ivins and Anne Richards and many more wise and wonderful friends. And we would be so much poorer without them.

So yeah, the joke was not really funny to start with. And it's over, so over. The whole Chuck Norris, Freepermania hyperventilating fantasy is ugly and stupid and passe. It's not funny.

Maybe it's some peoples' fantasy, but not all fantasies are appropriate for public sharing at all, much less some of the wankfests that get started here with this one.

Thanks again, Pamela. You put it very well.

tiredly,
Bright

[TexasObserver]

142. Well said.

It's like with Pennsylvania. Carville likes to say "it's Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, with Alabama in between." Just as that state, Texas has vastly different political worlds in urban versus rural. Those of us who work for Democrats to win in Texas know that Houston, Galveston, Beaumont, Port Arthur, Dallas, El Paso, Austin, San Antonio and the Valley are where we win state elections, and the rest of the state is where we lose them.

[smoogatz]

143. I think it's time to kill the myth of Texas exceptionalism

which is a big part of what's behind this whole idiotic secession business. I also think it's important to let the wingnuts seriously consider the consequences of this line of reasoning, which obviously would be disastrous for Texas and almost everyone living there.

[JVS]

151. Yup.

[davidthegnome]

138. It's a possibility

Yet it is extremely remote. While I sympathize with Texas liberals (being a northern Maine liberal is not the same as a Texas liberal, yet I am still part of a minority) I do not think that responding to the rhetoric with amusement is going to change anything.

Those in Texas who really favor this idea are rather like children wishing to make their own "Heeman women-haters" club. We should treat them like the children they are, with amusement at their childish antics, but without deep consideration either.

There is no reason to take them seriously unless or until they become violent. This is why we have law enforcement.

Of course Texas isn't going to Secede, but when fools make idle threats and promises, there is no reason not to chuckle. As others have pointed out, the vast majority of Texans are not serious about the idea. Unless that changes I'll continue to smirk at rednecks who continue to make idle, useless threats.

[Pamela Troy]

208. Yeah, it was soooo funny when those three guys pictured at the bottom of my post

got killed by all those "children" making idle threats in the south back in the early 60s.

A real knee-slapper.

[smoogatz]

139. 35% of Texans support secession. 51% of Texas Republicans.

I'm guessing we're also talking a near-majority of Texas whites. A majority of the Republicans in Texas are so completely anti-American that if they could, they'd withdraw from the Union? You have to admit, that's kind of freaky. Seriously--what are we supposed to do with that information, exactly?

[Paladin]

147. Ignore it. It's already old news..... (n/t)

[smoogatz]

149. How so?

[Paladin]

191. It's Old News Because.....

....Texas isn't going anywhere; it doesn't have the legal means of doing any such thing. It's old news because the majority of Texas citizens are against any notion of seceding, and that majority is growing----Texas is on the way back to being a Democratic state (no thanks to the national Democratic powers-that-be). It's old news because what set these idiotic circumstances in motion were statements by a desperate, halfwit governor facing an election which may result in him being (deservedly) thrown out on his ear.

The only thing keeping this issue alive in DU now is the standard bunch of rabid Texas-haters, who have way too big a presence here.....

[smoogatz]

220. So, you're saying it's moot.

That may be the case, although I find this outpouring of anti-American sentiment among the former uber-patriots of Texas a remarkable development--I mean, seriously bizarre. They love America as long as one of theirs is running it--otherwise, the hell with it. Let's also not forget the reason Texas is trending Democratic--it's simple demographics. The Democrats have (for now) won the battle for the Latino vote an the youth vote; or rather, the Republicans have emphatically lost it. I think we still learn something important and interesting about the majority of Republican Texans: they're treasonous secessionist bastards at heart. That may be old news if you're a Democrat from Texas, but it's still pretty startling to some of us blue staters.

[Paladin]

229. So What Would You Like To Do About It?

Seriously, if you had God-like powers, what would you do to that minority portion of the Texas population that's espousing these empty,ineffective sentiments that have so enraged your poor little Blue State soul? Are you for reintegration programs to purge these mindsets? Don't laugh---I've seen such programs espoused at least twice in the latest batch of Texas Hate threads, proposals made by good little Blue State liberals such as yourself. And thanks so much for the lofty comment about "simple demographics" being responsible for Texas going Democratic---Texas Democrats thank God for those demographics, because it's for Goddamned sure they can't look to the national party structure for any meaningful support.

Tell you what---clean up your own state of Wisconsin before you cop a self-righteous attitude with Texans. And since you're in Wisconsin, thanks a lot for "uber-patriot" Joe McCarthy. How's that feel?

[smoogatz]

238. Good little blue state liberals?

That's one big, stupid chip you've got on your shoulder, sport. Maybe you'd better go take a few deep breaths, or something.

[Paladin]

241. Golly. A Self-Satisfied Blue Stater Talking Down To A Texan.

How completely and depressingly unsurprising.....

[JVS]

150. We're supposed to pretend that if it weren't for Kinky Friedman Texas would be a liberal paradise

Although I think the fact that a gubernatorial race involving 2 republican candidates, one libertarian, and a democrat coming out in favor of the Republicans only goes to show that even a fragmented republican party can control Texas

[tammywammy]

154. I'm glad you're so obviously well versed on the 2006 governor's race in Texas

Be sure to stop by the Texas forum and impart more of your wisdom.

[WolverineDG]

159. ...

:spray: :rofl:

Just like getting money & resources for elections, that will never happen.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

dg

[sonias]

195. Score!

:applause:

Heads may explode, even on this board, if people are forced to abandon their comfortable Texas stereotyping. Do research? Heck that's too hard.

It's far easier to join the hater pack and follow the hater alpha dogs.


Sonia

[Seldona]

152. I've said it before.

I am amazed his statements didn't end his political career almost over-night. How can he not be resigning is disgrace? We all know he is a loon. But as a governor, he is a rather powerful loon.

[tammywammy]

153. Actually, governorship in Texas is on the weak side n/t

[Seldona]

160. That would matter if this were seriously 'on the table.'

It is not, imo.

I am fully aware of how toothless the Texas governor is, but it's not like he is a local councilman or something. If a governor of any state makes a controversial statement similar in nature to this, I believe it is not beyond the realm of proper discourse to discuss it.

Taking it for anything more than the sour grapes of a desperate politician in a desperate party is another matter entirely.

[rainbow4321]

165. Hood ornament =TX governor

That's all he is.

I know you know all this, tammywammy, but for those who don't:

When chimp FIRST became TX gov in 1994, he HAD to play nice..his Lt Gov was Dem Bob Bullock, a DEMOCRAT, and then he had the lawmakers to deal with. Out of all of them, chimp's political power was the WEAKEST.
Which is why in the months leading up to Nov 2000, there were a LOT of Texans screaming "WTF? It's not like he RUNS the state or anything, the TX gov job is the weakest in the nation!"

IN 1998, when he ran again, the LT Gov race was a bloodbath..why??? Because if a Dem had won the office, it would have made a Dem Lt Gov, meaning if chimp ran for the WH and won, it would leave TX in the hands of a Dem gov, and that was not on the repuke agenda. Perry, the repuke Lt Gov runner won by less then 70,000 votes, I believe. So it was those 70,000 votes that started chimp's fucking path to the WH and our 8 years of death and destruction. The bullshit line of "if you re-elect me, I will fulfill my four years as gov..really I will" was BULLSHIT on chimp's part. He knew what he was going to do all along.

You can see the pattern of TX elections here:

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/state.php?fips=48&f=0&off=99

----------
Disclaimer:
I was not into watching politics back then as much as I am now, there are probably many more TX Dems here who can fill in whatever details that I have left out. But I remember the Lt Gov bloodbath race...I avoided TV and radio the whole time because of it all!

[WolverineDG]

163. He got a swift kick in the behind

the Texas House voted to eliminate 94% of his budget. If that actually goes through, expect to see him panhandling on street corners so he can by hairspray & mousse.

dg

[martymar64]

188. The TX Senate voted to pull 95% of his office budget

Our legislators didn't take too kindly to his remarks, either.

[nadinbrzezinski]

155. Several points need to be made

1.- If they even try... they will learn what earlier Texans learned oh around 1879 or so... it is not kosher and it may even take US troops

Worst comes to worst... the cold civil war will go hot... why this is no joke

2.- I hate to point this out but Texas is not a conservative state... it is only recent that it has voted repiblican, and recently you can also say it has a smidgen to do with Delay's highly questionable efforts

I expect texas to go back to more liberal trends soon

[NutmegYankee]

162. It doesn't matter!

Within days, the US military will have regained control of the state, shot or blown up any opposing force, and forced the lucky ones to surrender for their date with a Treason prosecution. States cannot secede - It's settled.


If you're itching to secede, they make a smart bomb to cure that!

[Lady Effingbroke]

164. Thank you for being a voice of reason and sanity amidst the madness!

Your posts are commonsensical, straightforward, and much appreciated.

:thumbsup:

[NutmegYankee]

172. Thanks.

I really have to roll my eyes at this. Unlike the 1860s, most Americans identify as Americans rather than as "*insert state identity*". I may be a Nutmegger, but I'd side with my country over the state in a heartbeat. It just ends up as a bashing when discussed here on DU.

[Pamela Troy]

209. Of course it matters if the military is forced to intervene!

Do you think I'm talking here about movie or a video game?

[NutmegYankee]

224. Well with UAVs launching hellfire mssiles, it is kind of like a video game.

For the controller hundreds of miles away.


My point is, they can't secede, and this talk does absolutely nothing but rile them up. I'm a "Yankee Liberal", and have stated since the beginning that Texas cannot, and therefore wouldn't even try, to secede.

[Pamela Troy]

226. But it's not a video game. You do realize that, right?

NY: My point is, they can't secede,

Did you actually read the OP?

[NutmegYankee]

230. What do you think?

I love when people ask stupid questions after an obvious sarcastic response...

And yes, I read the OP. The wingnuts could act out some hate, but frankly, they were probably going to anyhow. But they also face prosecution, or if they engage in an armed insurrection, possible death.

[Pamela Troy]

236. Given some of the comments I've seen here, It's not a stupid question.

Some people here actually do seem to imagine all this as a sort of exciting movie or video game.

And "they were probably going to anyhow" is a cop-out. One of the lessons we pr learned from the 20th century was the direct link between violent rhetoric and violent acts.

Seems lots of people are really keen on forgetting that lesson. And God help us, we may have to learn it all over again.

[Name removed]

167. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pamela Troy]

210. Gee. That's awful nice of you. In the event of being subjected to actual

violence, liberal Texans will no doubt sleep soundly now, knowing that there'll be a nice big DP camp waiting for them after their driven from their homes.

[Creideiki]

239. Well, clearly, we can't do everything for everybody, right?

I mean, that's what the LGBT community keeps getting told here at DU. Just wait your turn and someday we'll get around to safeguarding your lives, livelihoods, and property. Oh, but next year is an election year, so probably best to wait until after that.

[WolverineDG]

253. "Evolved Texans"?

:wtf: Should we be forced to wear stars so you can tell who is who?

:eyes:

dg

[Name removed]

256. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

257. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vinnie From Indy]

174. “Th’ oppressor’s wrong, the proud man’s contumely”

I was just sayin the other day that you just don't hear the word "contumely" nearly enough these days.

Sayin' that word in Texas might get yer ass kicked.

[Name removed]

175. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Algorem]

177. secede my ass.we need to sell it.

[Umbral]

178. To China. nt

[jmcalli]

186. To Mexico. It would increase their border with the U.S. for more efficient drug smuggling.

[jmcalli]

182. That Yankee Liberal "Let's LET Texas Secede" Joke...

...was a just response to the Texan Conservative "Let's Secede" Joke. Both are just jokes to attract attention and state a political position, nothing more.

Texas will never secede because they wouldn't have their American flags to fly, no military to protect them from Mexico, and no federal support. Some Texans like to whine about liberals and a democratic administration, but the states with the biggest tax burden are mostly the blue states. New Jersey, New York, and Connecticut top the list. Texas is among the bottom ten. Texas can strut and threaten all they want, but the fact is that they are one of the smallest contributors to the federal income tax system. If they did secede the rest of us wouldn't miss them much.

[Pamela Troy]

211. Did you notice those three guys whose pictures are at the bottom of the OP?

Know who they are?

Think they're just "jokingly" dead?

[workinclasszero]

183. Only the fringe reich wing freeps

want to secede. A poll of Texans said 25% yes 75% no, I believe. As we all know, rethuglicans are incapable of winning elections nowadays so the only thing the nazis could do is stage their own version of Hitler's beer hall putsch.

Which would totally fail of course.

These people are future domestic terrorists and DHS needs to keep an eye on them because these delusional bastards will do something eventually.

They are incited to violence on a daily basis by Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, etc.

I just hope alot of innocent Texans don't end up dead because of these insane right wingers and their fascist fantasies.

[tomp]

189. so your point is there are a lot of idiots in texas....

....and if we say, "go ahead and secede," something will be different than it is now?

isn't the real issue that we should support progressives in texas?

[Paladin]

194. DU Texas Haters Supporting The State's Progressives?

Don't hold your breath on that one. As this thread demonstrates, blindly hating the entire state is a lot more satisfying to some people.....

[Pamela Troy]

212. No. My point is that the rhetoric against liberals has become increasingly violent

and that violent rhetoric just got a major nudge into the mainstream by the Texas governor.

And yes, my entire point is that we should support progressives in Texas. You don't support them by essentially abandoning them to the yahoos who'd love the "freedom" to abuse them.

[WillyT]

196. Hey Pamela... Have You Ever Seen This ??? (By Norman Rockwell)

Rockwell, Norman
Southern Justice (Murder in Mississippi)
1965
Oil on canvas



Got turned on to this last year. Had never seen it before, or ever heard of it.

It still reaches to my core.

Peace...

:hi:

[Pacifist Patriot]

206. Wow, I did not know he did anything like that. Very powerful!

[Pamela Troy]

214. No, I hadn't. Thanks for posting it.

It's a beautiful piece. Looks like he based it on a famous LIFE MAGAZINE WWII photograph of a Catholic priest who was comforting a dying American soldier in a gunfight.

[bvar22]

215. Some of my favorite LIBERALS live in Texas.

Sharp Tonged, Courageous, Outspoken
I LOVE Texas Democrats.

Keep Texas.

Ditch Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, N&S Dakota and Nevada.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Kidding, Of Course.

[Hello_Kitty]

222. The non-lunatics in TX outnumber the lunatics. Texas will go blue again, very soon. eom

[Pamela Troy]

223. That's beside the point.

[Geek_Girl]

225. I don't think most Texas want to Secede

and I don't think there are as many repukes in Texas as most think. Obama got 44%. That's almost half. I think if Dems work hard in Texas in could go blue next election.

[Pamela Troy]

227. Did you actually read the OP?

[Texasgal]

228. We WILL turn blue.

Texas Dems work very hard.... harder than many may know.

[WolverineDG]

233. And with no money, no manpower, & no support from the Blue State Texas Haters nt

[Name removed]

242. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Paladin]

243. I Keep Thinking The Texas Hatred Can't Get Any Worse Here at DU.....

...and people like you keep turning up and proving me wrong.

[WolverineDG]

250. Genius has its limits; Stupidity is infinite

One would think we were on FR with the level of discourse evidenced by Texas Haters.

dg