Gifted Children & Education: Opinions, Please?

[IdaBriggs]

Today I had an amazing and yet terrifying moment: my children's toddler program (Montessori) teacher made a point of introducing my husband and I to the pre-school teacher.

(My children turned 2 in late February, and are a year-and-a-half away from going to pre-school.)

She very casually (and most politely) mentioned that she believes my son might be a genius.

I think she might be right. I also think my daughter is probably one, too, but she is not as easily 'quantifiable' as her brother, for reasons I will expand upon in a moment.

My son knows his alphabet, and the sounds they make. He is 100% on this in English, and about 80% in Spanish. I was 'bragging' on his ability to count to 30 (in English), but apparently he was doing '40s' yesterday. He is consistent with his counting to 'vente' in Spanish (20), and is working on his 'twenties' in that language.

I am comfortable with the fact he will be reading by the end of the summer.

His sister gets annoyed when her brother 'takes over' letters/numbers, and focuses on other things. She speaks in sentences (and has for quite some time). Without going into too much detail, she is doing / saying things that developmentally also put her 'ahead' of the game, but is not as consistent with her numbers/letters, and sometimes mixes them up.

Both love to 'read' and be read to. Both know their body parts, colors, and basic shapes. My daughter is the more social/verbal of the two, but my son is doing well.

They have been evaluated by their pediatrician at their '2 year well child' visit, and pronounced 'developmentally advanced.' Since they were born two months prematurely, we had their developmental clinic meeting yesterday, where they were pronounced 'exceptional.' I was unofficially told that BOTH twins being 'exceptional' is the exception, not the rule; they are pleased when one of two premature twins is 'normal', and my husband and I are to keep up the good work/see you next year at their chronological age, since they are doing so well. (They can stack blocks like champions! LOL!)

Today moved me from 'infatuated / obviously prejudiced parent' to 'holy crap, I'm *not* imagining this' status.

We are not rich. We recently moved to a wonderful school district, but currently have them going to a private (inexpensive!) Montessori Toddler program (since they can't start pre-school until they are 3 years old / potty trained, and my son has been doing the 'count to 30/knows his alphabet' since Christmas).

My question for the board is two-fold (as befits a mother of twins):

Opinions on gifted education programs? So far we like the Montessori program with their willingness to let my children lead them, but I have been told by other folks that if we go the public school route, the 'gifted' programs are just a bunch of extra homework that drives the love of learning straight out of kids. I am also wondering if I should try to push to have my kids start 'formal' pre-school in the fall, as opposed to waiting the extra year, or is this really going to screw up their social development since they are still two years old.

Next question: math, science, humanities -- if I do have budding genius on my hands, obviously I must feed it. How can I make sure they have exposure to a bit of everything? And if you could pick any field to help 'point' beloved children into (keeping in mind I'm not going to push anything on them at this stage of the game), what would you encourage gifted children to develop a passion for? Cures for cancer imply an interest in medicine; studying the secrets of the stars implies science; helping to create world peace involves people skills and psychology; military conqueror involves strategic warfare and technology -- LOL! Where do I channel this brain power?

So, please, share your opinions, stories, and insights. I'm proud, and for obvious reasons, scared silly. I think my secret parent fear has officially been confirmed:

My kids are smarter than I am! LOL!

Best, Ida

P.S. Obvious Note: A well rounded education with social, emotional, and physical activity is obviously desired. And we are not 'pushing' them; they are just doing this because they are amazing and brilliant children. They are a lot of fun, and we are not interested in turning them into little bundles of stress. They are TWO YEARS OLD, and yes, we have temper tantrums and everything else 'normal' -- other than the fact the little manipulators have got us wrapped around their fingers! LOL!

[dflprincess]

1. First I'd best make it clear that I'm neither a parent or an educator

I was, however, a "gifted" child (though not in the genius range) but that was a long time ago.

My personal opinion is that, unless they're letting you know that they're bored silly by their current preschool, I'd keep them wehre they are. This is the time when their imaginations are so active (maybe they'll be writers) and I think too much structure puts a real damper on that. Let them be little kids a while longer.

[DCKit]

3. What princess said and....

YOUR involvement with their education is far more important than what school they go to.

You are in a position to provide supplemental learning and to keep them interested. But don't force it. Those professional soccer mom's who spend all their time driving the kids from one activity to another aren't doing their children any favors, it's just too, too much. The kids need some time alone in their own heads as well.

[CrispyQ]

45. "The kids need some time alone in their own heads as well."

Recently, there was some kind of campaign to not text or use your cell phone for a day - it was geared toward young people. It was on the local news & I wasn't paying close attention to the story until they interviewed some of the kids who had gone all day without using their phones. One girl said, "It was weird, being alone with your thoughts all day."

:wow:

I hope she liked it & does it more!

[H2O Man]

13. As a charter member

of Parents of High Achieving Children, I agree. From birth to 5 are years that should focus on fun and imagination.

[IdaBriggs]

28. We are doing that; this program is very child friendly.

And just as an FYI, my daughter's nickname at home is "princess!" :)

I was looking ahead to the fall / into the future with my questions. I am *not* removing them from the program they are in at the moment, especially with how GREAT the teachers there are! :)

[gkhouston]

46. The most important thing, wherever they're taught, is definitely the teachers.

I'd argue that 20 years from now, the specific curriculum they were taught isn't going to matter a damn. The attitude they were taught with, however, is vital. If they've got friendly, nurturing teachers who don't view gifted kids as uppity nuisances they need to squelch or people whose only worthwhile attribute is their intellect but simply as kids with greater abilities and broader interests than most, you're home free. After much soul-searching, we left our "princess" in an ordinary preschool because she was happy there and the teachers weren't the least bit fussed by her abilities; they enjoyed her as a person and encouraged her interests. She's in a magnet program now for G/T kids in the public schools and I'm hoping that lasts. Before choosing an elementary school, though, we visited several in our school system and discovered that the "G/T" programs varied from school to school: some were nothing more than a few extra worksheets or a pull-out program a few hours per week. Others, like the school where she is now, have classrooms that are all G/T, all the time, although there's a range even within the classroom. She seems to be ahead even of the kids in her class but she's enjoying herself so we're going to let well enough alone.

[kestrel91316]

2. My niece taught herself to read at two, and didn't learn the names of the letters

until a little later. She was perusing cookbooks and evaluating cookie recipes when she was 4, and started French lessons at 6. VERY very bright little girl.

She was not in a gifted program per se, but was offered lots of opportunities to go above and beyond the call of duty in school. Graduated summa cum laude from NYU a couple of years ago, and is now getting her Master's in the Iowa Writer's Workshop program.

She also got to be just a kid her whole life. Swimming, soccer, debate team, boys, dating. Part time job.

As someone who was also considered gifted, I have to say I approve of how she was raised and educated. Nothing too fancy. It did help that her HS is one of the top in the US.

[MyUserNameIsBroken]

4. My experience suggests

That steering a child, gifted or no, in any direction they are not naturally inclined is a mistake.

Let them be kids. Let them explore, and make mistakes, and learn from them. Provide them with opportunities to do these things at levels appropriate to their skills and desires.

Remember, it is not your job as a parent to raise a child who will save the world, but to raise a child who thinks the world is worth saving. You're a parent, not a programmer.

Check out exactly how the "wonderful" school district deals with GT kids. Good test scores don't always coincide with being able to handle exceptional students. Double-promotions and the like can cause as many issues as they solve. Some teachers can be resentful of anyone who doesn't fit into a program.

Good luck.

[pnutbutr]

5. get them in the advanced schooling programs

I tested high when I was young but my parents kept me out of the advanced programs because my brother and sister had learning disabilities and they didn't want to make them feel bad. I almost flunked out of high school due to boredom and lack of motivation because I wasn't being challenged.

As for getting them into things, let them decide. My son was into the body for awhile so we bought him a stethescope and a body encyclopedia for kids. He still reads that book and anytime he gets a booboo we pull it out and go over how platelets cause the blood to clot, turn into a scab etc... He's gotten into airplanes and stuff recently so we took him to the air and space museum and I'm working on getting my father to renew his pilots license, rent a plane and take him for a flight. Feed off whatever they become interested in. Eventually they will find a focus that you can stick with but for now, while young expose them to whatever they find interesting.

[EmilyAnne]

6. Don't let them know that they are special in this way. Of course, make them feel special because

they are. I mean, don't tell them they are smarter than other children or that they are geniuses.
You don't want they to feel superior.

Socialization is going to be so important, so try to encourage friendships. Let them have friends visit the house, allow them to participate in extracurricular activities with other children that are physical rather than intellectual.

They sound like little sponges at this point, so I wouldn't worry too much about their schooling just yet.
They will be learning no matter what.
Because you don't have heaps of money for private school, you can go ahead and send them to public school and then see how it goes.
I don't think you should start them early because of the socialization skills and emotional development that needs time.
If they are emotionally immature and physically smaller, they will be treated like oddities and have a more difficult time making friends.
I don't think that would be good for them.

If, by the time they are going to pre-school, they are so above there level that they clearly have no place in a class with others of their age, then you can take them to interviews at private schools and see if there are flexible payment plans or financial assistance they can offer you.

Good luck. You have a challenge on your hands, but a rewarding one, indeed!

I am two and a half months pregnant with my first, so I have no experience.
I do have younger twin brothers who were considered gifted and I was placed in a special program for gifted children when I was in kindergarten and remained in it until I graduated.
Aside from all of the differing educational philosophies and attempts to keep these children intellectually satisfied, I think socialization is the key.

[Raksha]

21. I couldn't disagree more!

Re Don't let them know that they are special in this way. Of course, make them feel special because they are. I mean, don't tell them they are smarter than other children or that they are geniuses.
You don't want they to feel superior.

That is just unbelievably patronizing. "Don't let them know they are special in this way"??? These are highly gifted children we're talking about. If they don't already know they are smarter than other other children, they will within the next year.

It would be an act of fundamental dishonesty to pretend they are just like other kids, and Ida would be doing her kids a disservice to screw with their sense of reality like that. The best way to deal with the reality of their giftedness is to openly acknowledge it.

As to any possible feelings of superiority, I would stress that a gift is just that--something they were born with and not something to take credit for as though it were an achievement. But I assume you mean they might act though the ordinary rules of civilized behavior don't apply to them because they are "special." Hopefully that won't even come up (at least not too often) but if it does it can and should be dealt with as a separate issue.

You just let them know otherwise, that the ordinary rules of civilized behavior *DO* indeed apply to them, no matter how gifted they are. And enforce it!

[EmilyAnne]

25. Those are really good points about being gifted vs. taking credit for achievements.

I guess it just seems that they are too young to have such information and NOT feel "superior" or just different from their peers.
When they are older, sure.
Right now they are two!
But, that is just my unprofessional, gut feeling and you may be 100% correct!

[JuniperLea]

39. Gifted means you're smart enough to know better;)

And it helps to let them know that. You are not above anyone else, you still have all the applicable human chemistry and biological functions... and the pendulum of intelligence swings an equal distance in both directions... very smart people are capable of doing very dumb things. And it is very easy for the simplest things to escape the most brilliant of people.

I called my boss an idiot savant the other day... he took it as the compliment it was intended to be. Give him the most complex problem and he will figure it out, but the easy stuff just whizzes by him sometimes.

[SharonAnn]

34. I disagree with this. As a child genius , I felt my abilities were devalued

and I was measured on all kinds of other criteria where I was closer to average. Want a well-rounded child? That probably won't be someone who's a "genius". Development can be very out of phase and bounce around. For example, great in math and english, not so much in social skills. Talk like an adult but react like a child or adolescent.

Sports stars are acknowledged as have special talents and are offered many opportunities to develop those skills and cheered when they do well.

Why shouldn't intellectual skills be recognized as a special gift. Of course, the child didn't earn the abilities, they were a gift. The child earns their accomplishments when they use their gift well.

I never took academic achievement as important because everyone around me (including professional parents) accepted my accomplishments but didn't really seem to think they were important. Later they told me they didn't want me to focus on my gifts. And, being a girl in the 50's and 60's wasn't much help either since being pretty was more important in my schools than being accomplished.

Seriously, if an adult had taken me aside talked to me about my gifts and supported me in seeing how far I could take them, life could've been very different.

Though successful in computer programming and systems engineering, I was in my 40's and talking to a college admissions officer before I realized that my gifts were truly exceptional. She talked to me about the opportunity to really explore and use my intelligence and recognize what a gift it was and how satisfying it would be to use it and strengthen it. I walked away from that meeting thunderstruck when I realized that was the first time that someone really connected with my gift and encouraged me to develop it more.

[SteelPenguin]

42. Agree

I was a baby genius as well. It's not about not telling them they're smart, but just not telling them they're smarter than others. Congratulate them on achievements but kids are kids, and even the smart 2 year olds are....well they're still 2.

They'll know they're smarter than the other kids. They won't be able to help it. If you tell them that they're smarter than everyone else, you risk turning them into pompous little jerks. I saw that with other kids. A friend of mine, also in the genius range, who was in my same track, was a complete jerk to people because his parents gave him a superiority complex.

There are many things you can do to encourage smart kids, but you have to be carefull to not turn them into jerks along the way.

[11 Bravo]

7. As a very young child my IQ was measured at 165. (Believe me, it's nowhere near that today.)

My parents enrolled me in school early, and then I skipped first grade, so I was a 5 year old second grader. My earliest memories of school entail kneeling beneath my desk and crying because I was so much younger and smaller than my classmates.
I guess all I'm saying is please, don't forget to let them be kids. (And it sounds as if you have that well in hand. Good luck.)

[dflprincess]

35. Hopefully, one of the things parents and teachers have gotten smarter about is that a

high IQ does not mean you're emotionally any more ready for school than another 5 year old (though I'm sure some are).

[aquart]

8. Channel...hah!

They'll find their passions themselves. You're the ones who will give them their humanity and relationship to the world, their proud sense of 'this is what WE do.' So I'm hoping you already have pets in the house, linking caring and responsibility for them.

You're lucky you've got Google to answer their questions. But YOU do the answering, don't send them to the machines for quite a while.

Two two-year-old geniuses. You'll need eyes in back of your head.

And maybe start documenting the journey? They're going to teach you so much. Everytime you look at something so you can explain it to them, you'll see it new. What an amazing life you're going to have.

[IdaBriggs]

11. Wonderful responses so far, and yours -- Made Me Cry!

Happy tears!!! Happy tears!!! What a beautiful turn of phrase, and so true:

"Everytime you look at something so you can explain it to them, you'll see it new. What an amazing life you're going to have."

Thank you so much for that!!! They are my every dream come true.

I am blessed, and thankful. Also, the advice is wonderful about ME answering the google questions, and as for eyes in the back of my head -- I have a picture on my desk of the two of them. They ran down the hall ahead of me, turned the laundry basket upside down, and then both climbed ON TOP of the dresser. They are smiling at me/the camera so proudly!

I am in *BIG* trouble! LOL! Isn't it great???

[aquart]

23. Oh, you're going to need a BIG first aid kit.

My favorite comment on the Terrible Twos was from a mother who appeared in the doorway of our store with her child and said, "The gypsies stole my child and left me this one." I assured her that she would get hers back in a year.

I look forward to hearing more of this duo.

[enlightenment]

9. I don't know anything about modern programs, but I will offer

this bit of advice.

Many years ago, my younger brother was tested and found to have an IQ of 186. He was seven years old. We all have 'above average' intelligence, all read fluently by the time we were three and a half (except one sister, who didn't move beyond Dr. Seuss until she was five - she still isn't as much of a reader as the rest of us) . . . but he took that extra leap into scary smart territory.

Our parent's were encouraged to give him extra time, attention, etcetera - and to understand that he was 'special'. He received special schooling, accelerated classes, all that. He was allowed to 'do' things that the rest of us weren't - he started investing his allowance in the stock market when he was 13, for example. They also pushed him to do sports he enjoyed (fencing) and get involved with groups he enjoyed (at the time, it was the L-5 Society and a Dungeons and Dragons group). It wasn't just academics.

He still became an unbelievable manipulator (an utter little shyte, actually) - and was, until his mid-thirties, completely incapable of interacting with the rest of the world in any sort of 'normal' way. He's in his mid-forties now, and we can finally have a conversation on the phone that sounds like two regular people talking.

The point of the story is that he was a normal kid before our parent's were told to make sure that he 'got what he needed' - the concentration on helping him utilize his abilities - on channeling his talents - almost destroyed him as an individual living in civil society.

Being a genius has served him well in many ways - and hurt him horribly in others. Bottom line is that intelligence means nothing if the person can't function in society - the concept of the absent minded professor is cute, but it rarely works out in reality.

If your children are gifted, you don't need to 'channel' them into anything. They will find their calling on their own. I really think you owe it to them to give them as 'normal' an upbringing as you possibly can - and refuse to accept their intelligence as an excuse for anything that you wouldn't accept from them if they didn't have that intelligence.

Good luck!

[MineralMan]

10. I can give you a perspective from the learner's

point of view. I grew up in a very small town, back in the 50s. I tested at 156 during the first round of IQ tests given at the local elementary school. I don't remember this, but there was a bunch of discussion between my parents and the school about what to do with me. The school had no "gifted" program at all. It was just too small.

About the only thing they could offer was to skip me up a couple of grades early on. My parents decided against that, so I was with my age-peers all through school. That worked out great.

Beyond that, my parents did little other than to encourage me to learn on my own. I did. I couldn't help myself. The library was my classroom, and I devoured it wholesale. School was an afterthought, really, and didn't require much of my attention.

My point here is that the real job will be to keep your gifted children exploring things on their own. School won't do it. Encourage them to explore their own intellects in any direction that pleases them. Expose them to accomplished people. Let them develop their talents, wherever they lead, and offer support with private instruction in specific areas, like music and art, if that is their direction.

How'd it work out? Well, in my case, I didn't do anything earthshaking with my life, but I've explored several areas thoroughly and am a happy guy in my 60s now. I couldn't have asked for a better life, so I thank my parents, who are both still around, for simply giving me my head and an encouraging push now and then.

[MedleyMisty]

48. That's basically my story

Except that my mother never even thought about skipping me ahead. Although she says that my kindergarten teacher told her I could have skipped kindergarten if I'd spoken up - I didn't volunteer to read in class until the last day of school.

[NeedleCast]

12. I remember when kids used to be able to be kids until they were like five

Now we're sending them to school at age 2?

Sorry, not trying to derail your thread but that just seems crazy to me.

[IdaBriggs]

16. I had to return to work full time in December. I was not comfortable

with 'daycare' in my area, and was lucky enough to have my mother-in-law helping with their care. We began investigating the Montessori toddler program in January for several reasons, not least of which was my son's obvious gifts. Other reasons included wanting to make sure they were comfortable playing with other children, were comfortable following directions from other adults in a classroom setting (sit down and listen to the story, sit down and eat at the table, no biting other kids, take turns sharing, etc.), and giving my mother-in-law a regular schedule for *her* life.

They attend 'school' three days a week from 8:00 a.m. until 3:00 p.m. Because it is a Montessori, it is a structured learning environment with a regular schedule, one teacher per four students, and the beginnings of CONCEPTS are taught in a very fun way. (Sand paper letters, pouring, opening, life skills, paint, play-do, etc.)

Both of my children are thriving; no one is pushing them, but they are going at their own pace. The pace for my son is astounding.

He doesn't know he's learning yet; he just thinks he's playing, and having fun. :shrug:

[NeedleCast]

17. That's Cool I Guess

Not my place to say regardless. I just know that ate age 3-4 I had fun crashing my Big Wheel into things and running around outside like an idiot. I think I would rather do that than been in school...but who knows.

[IdaBriggs]

20. They do those things, too. Remember, this is a TODDLER program.

At home they have big wheels (from Uncle Jimmy) -- one is pink/purple (Dora), and the other is yellow/green (Diego). I think for most of the kids the activities are just supposed to be 'fun' and set-up for when they get to pre-school, but as I said, my little sponges are just loving it.

The teachers in this program are just amazing. Locally, similar programs are astronomically priced, but this one is very inexpensive. And it gives them a chance to be with other kids. The first week there were some tears (I was smart enough to do my crying in the hallway out of sight!), but after that - hah! My daughter runs up to the teacher to hug her, my son is off to play with his buddies, and how those three women keep twelve two-year olds on track is BEYOND me! LOL! There is even a pet parakeet who is let out once a day, and the howling mob chases the bird all over the room -- hysterical! They've learned more songs than I knew were out there, while my son's selective deafness seems to be fading. (If he hadn't responded to the whisper of 'cookie' I would have sworn he had hearing problems as he blithely ignored my frantic "NO!" while scaring the beans out of me with some of his climbing exploits! LOL!)

Sigh. Its all going so quickly!

[peace13]

14. You have received many good ideas that I agree with.

I would like to add, that you should never speak about their 'specialness' in front of them. The word Genius and the like will only cause you grief in the long run. Smart kids will pull out all of the stops and it can work for or against you as a parent, to say nothing of the fact that it will build a wall between you and parents of children with 'normal intelligence'.

The best education you can give your children is fostering their interests at home. Don't put too much importance on scales or grades. Too many 'perfect' geniuses end up to be duds after High School. Enjoy your kids and remember to have some fun every day! Peace, kim

edited to add - Make sure that your daughter does not suffer in the shadow of her brother. I read that she is very bright as well and it would be a shame for her not to flourish to her fullest because of him.

[DevonRex]

15. My kids were both in the G&T and International Baccalaureate programs

They started out in an elementary school that was WAY below the average in test scores. Believe it or not they got the most individual attention there. They were able to get a couple of grades ahead because so many kids had to go to remedial classes that the regular teachers had extra time to spend with my kids. And then a couple of the teachers were just so tickled that they had really smart kids to teach that they even did some extra stuff with them after school and provided us with all the materials we needed to let them go at their own pace.

JMHO but I think keeping them mainstreamed with (or close to) their age group but letting them go ahead as far as they can academically works best. It gives them normal social experiences, which is something that they need and that they cannot GET from books. It also allows them to participate in athletics or band or drama in a way that they might not be able to do if they are 12 years old in high school. Think 12 year old trying to play football or be Romeo to an 18-year-old Juliet, or trying to haul a tuba around the football field in marching band.

Public or private doesn't matter as much as the individual school does. We never would have thought that the pretty poor (in test scores) school that my kids went to would be so great for them, but it was.

For high school we chose a public school that had the IB program. It was a culturally and ethnically and economically diverse school that just happened to have the programs that let kids get ahead if they could, but also do sports and drama and music.

[FedUpWithIt All]

18. My three older children had all been accepted into the gifted/talented program

It was a self contained program through the local public school. I really liked the program because it did not make a big deal out of the kids intellect. There were two "enriched" classrooms for each grade of elementary school (district wide). The classrooms were fairly typical aside from the "enrichment" activities. The kids were not pulled out of their classrooms because their classroom time was part of the program.

They would do extra "projects" every year and started foreign language studies earlier than the rest of the district. The reading and math levels were a little more flexible and the teachers were trained to deal with the special needs of the students (often, very high IQ students have social issues that can be quite difficult). The parents of children in the program were invited to attend a type of PTA specifically for the needs of the gifted/talented kids, in addition to the school PTA. They would have speakers and enrichment geared toward the kids special needs.

When the children in this program would move on to Middle school they would be automatically enrolled into a special 6th grade Honors. After 6th grade they began to separate into more individual courses and would setlle into different paths, so to speak.

We moved a couple of years ago to a district that only has a "pull out" gifted program. They wanted to do formal testing with my youngest (she is the only one still in elementary) and i refused. I think that it would have been too much for her emotionally to have to leave her classroom for a day each week and have to make up her regular work when she returned. Her teacher had her removed to an advanced reading group but otherwise she is with her regular classroom everyday.

The truth is that most of it begins to shake out in Middle School. By the time they arrive in the older grades they will often naturally gravitate to a sort of academic or social peer group no matter what is done in the younger years.

If i can offer a bit of advice...

Skipping grades can be very difficult on children. Social consequences can be profound. Children who are giften academically can sometimes be slightly behind socially. Skipping a chronological year can cause a pretty big rift. This rift becomes quite apparent in the budding social pressure cooker that starts in late elementary school.

I would also hesitate to "push" anything. It is always wise with children to provide a broad range of activities. Keep a lot of books, art supplies, musical intstruments, science projects... on hand. They will naturally gravitate to the area that most appeals to them. Most kids rebel against too much "guiding".

Be careful that your children understand that you love THEM and not their abilities as they grow older. I have seen many children struggle from extreme internal pressures because they mistakenly believed that they were loved only when they performed well. The fear of failure can be extremely profound.

Some gifted/talented kids are at higher risk for things like eating disorders. The following article covers some of the social struggles facing these kids. I realize your children are still very tiny. Learn as much as you can about potential pitfalls now so that you can head some of it off.

http://www.sengifted.org/articles_social/Schuler_GiftedKidsAtRiskWhosListening.shtml

I realize this is probably more than you were asking for.

:hi:

Best wishes to your little ones. I remember when you were expecting them. Hard to believe so much time has passed.

[Spike89]

19. Just a note about gifted programs...

Not all of them are truly for gifted students in the sense your children are gifted. Too often it is a combination of parental pressure (either on the teacher/administrator or on the child). The first instance is easy to explain, what parent doesn't think their child is gifted? If the parents can push because they are wealthy, connected, or simply aggressive, they often succeed in getting their kids into the gifted programs (especially vulnerable are private schools). The second is harder to qualify, but basically it involves the difficulty in measuring developmental progress vs. potential--in other words, a "bright" but not gifted child with advantages such as Montesori schooling from an early age will almost always "out score" a child with perhaps more potential but far less support. I'd submit that more important than anything when it comes to choosing a school/program for gifted students is the involvement of the teachers and that is directly affected by the student:teacher ratio. A good teacher in a general classroom, with a manageable class size, can do much more to nurture a gifted student's growth than an overloaded teacher in a gifted program.

Sounds like you have your hands full and a great challenge, good luck!

[distantearlywarning]

22. Gifted Programs

They were the only thing that made school at all bearable for me as a young child and teenager.

[AwakeAtLast]

24. Not really suggestions on schooling

Merely suggestions for you and then you decide.

I was considered "gifted" in school and was in my school's first "Great Books" program (anyone else?). It was good in theory, but in practice not so much. Maybe it was just my school, but I didn't get out of it what I thought it would be.

Anyway, the idea was to immerse gifted students in the best literature to be found and the mind would be enriched from it. Unfortunately, some of what I read was awful, some was boring, and some was great (not enough of the great, BTW). I also think that the teacher who gamely took us on was overwhelmed by the whole thing.

I guess what I'm suggesting is something like that on your own, but not just in literature - the best music, science, humanities, etc,. That could be as simple as a weekly trip to the library.

Incidentally, my daughter is showing signs of being very much like me. This means that the older she gets I will be doing more of what I suggested and as she is interested.

What blessings you have! Good luck with keeping up with them!!! :D

:hi:

[kaygore]

26. Let them be kids. Play is kids work. There will be plenty of time for academics later.

I have some background with gifted education and several of my friends have truly gifted children, one of which is a holy terror because he is a genius.

Before 3rd grade, it is difficult to determine who is actually gifted. I can give you many examples of friends' children who score in the genius range on tests as pre-schoolers and who had exceptional academic talents as pre-schoolers. Despite all types of enrichment provided by the parents (it was the thing back then), the kids grew to be just above average but in each case, perhaps because they were told they were so smart from such an early age, most of the kids have not really done anything with their lives and many did not even go to college or finish it if they did (when you are so much smarter than everyone else, why stay in school was their attitudes).

If your children naturally gravitate toward an area--music, math, etc.--then provide experiences that leverage the interest but I would strongly caution you not to formerly "teach" them advanced subjects simply to push them ahead academically.

I have seen too many kids' never reach their potential because their parents thought that they were exceptional (and in most cases they were) and pushed them academically.

Let your kids be kids. Encourage their imaginations and their play.

[Dappleganger]

27. Get them tested by a pro, first.

[jazzjunkysue]

29. Find the middle ground on every question: Teacher/parent/twin, here.

My daughter's in cornell now in Biological engineering.

She lived for her accellerated math class and her high school theater/music program. She adored Montessori. I approve wholeheartedly of montessori. Fabulous for all kids.

I'd keep her in an public school because they have all programs and an enriched specials program. Private schools lack the music and art and sports and labs and languages. Keep them in public schools.

My mom separated us in 2nd grade and I'd say it saved me. I needed to be me. Let them be individuals whenever possible. Try not to call them "the twins".

Look for the accellerated math/science class in their regular school. Mine liked space camp in the summer and as a high school student, attended a research camp at a local college in the summer.

Look for stuff that you can add to school, but keep them in a regular public school.

Put them in young-Mine had a little tough time as a college freshman, being younger than everyone else. But she was still bored alot in school, so, I'd put her in early, again.

You can try the gifted program in each building and see who's running it. Play that by ear but don't put them in programs they dislike just for resume builders-That will backfire on you.

Don't dwell on their status as quick: They will know by 2nd grade and won't have to be told. I've taught some lazy, smart, spoiled brats. Read alot of Eckhart Tolle to keep everyone's egos in check.

Trust them to find their way as they go along. Always let them do their own homework and let them take some lumps along the way.

Enjoy them! That's the greatest gift any parent can give any child. They'll be easy to raise, so, enjoy them.

[MyUserNameIsBroken]

30. well...

"Private schools lack the music and art and sports and labs and languages."

A lot of public schools lack music, art, languages et al, because of budget cutbacks and NCLB test focus. They always seem to find funding for sports, though...

Conversely, good private schools can have all of those. My son goes to one that teaches French from Pre-Kindergarten, and Latin starting in Fourth Grade.

[JuniperLea]

31. I was identified gifted at age 1, and a genius at age 7

I have done a lot of work with American Mensa in the past (I’m a member), and have had my brain picked quite a bit on this very issue. Mind you, Mensa has no opinions:) I've found through talking with others in Mensa that my story is fairly common, not the exception. I was bored in Jr. and Sr. high, and I would routinely receive straight A's for the first half of the semester, and almost always straight fails by semester's end. Fortunately, my parents realized this was more about the teaching, curriculum, and general class practices than it was about me. The first year it happened, they were quite amused at my A+ in biology, and in art, with the rest of the classes showing failing grades.

The one thing I hate above all about my early academic career is that I was never told what my IQ was. I had no idea that the special classes I was taking on top of all my regular classes were advanced education for gifted students. There were only six or so students in the class, some coming from other schools, and none of us knew why we were there, so we tried to figure it out on our own. Not all of us were poor... we didn't all like the same things... we were, however, opinionated daydreamers. We surmised we were there to keep us from becoming behavioral issues. I kid you not. Had I known, I'm sure, without question, that I would have made a lot better choices along the way. One day, I was on the verge of being expelled from high school when my counselor said, you know, your IQ is in the 98th percentile. I was stunned. I kept asking him what that meant, thinking he made a mistake. All this time I thought I was a stupid disruptor! LOL! As a daydreamer, I missed a lot of instruction, so I thought I was stupid and just not getting it. I also had a different way of thinking... hard to explain... I was (still am) very visual. I jot down notes, diagrams, and little pictures, to help me figure things out. This held me back quite a bit in oral quiz situations. I also wrote exactly as I spoke, so until a teacher got used to me, they would assume I was making things up on the spot when I gave oral reports, even when I was reading from the written report.

My oldest son was identified as gifted at age one as well. Like me, he was speaking in complete sentences before the age of two, and was reading and writing well before starting school. He was really cute too, and when I'd walk him around town in his stroller, we'd be stopped a lot by people who would say, my what a beautiful baby "she" is. Imagine their surprise when he would reply, thank you, but I'm a boy. Not even two yet! It was priceless:) I put my career on hold, kept him home, and gave him every opportunity to explore the world at his own speed. Today, he's a chemical engineer... by his own choice. I kept him in public school because we couldn't afford private, but I was ever vigilant in finding magnet schools, etc., that I thought would enhance his education. I was always very careful to discuss all of this with him, and include him in the decision making process. If it doesn’t interest a kid, no amount of intelligence is going to help them advance in the area. For high school, he tested, qualified, and attended to the California Academy of Math and Science (on the campus of Cal State Dominquez Hills) and he received many honors from engineering societies and the Cal Tech professors that helped with curriculum at the school.

Birth to age five is very important on so many levels. I feel it is the only time you have to instill your own moral code in a child. I recommend spending as much time with your children as possible. Pay attention to what gets them excited! This is your key to their future! Take them to museums, for walks in the country, to the beach... have them in the kitchen with you... explain things in their environment to the degree you think they will understand. Keep them busy when they demand it (and bright kids do indeed DEMAND to be stimulated!) and let them do their own thing when they don't want your stimulation. Take them to teachers’ supply stores and let them choose workbooks and learning aids that pique their interest. PBS is a good source of information and stimulation too. You know, all of this is very good advice for EVERY child, imho.

We are all individuals, and no two stories are exactly the same. Good luck on your exciting journey! Always wear solid, good fitting shoes and make sure your kids have the same. I know this sounds odd, but you'll need them to keep up, and the kids will need them to flitter about whilst they discover.

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. My opinion is that it's brilliant marketing. n/t

[blm]

33. My 8yo is in advanced program at public school magnet for visual/performing arts - too much homework

in my opinion, and you're right, it takes alot of the joy out of it for her.

[s-cubed]

36. I have personal experience with two very gifted children. (not my own).

My nephew was in Montesorri from a young age, and thrived there. He also got a lot of stimulation from his parents, who read to him, took him various places, exposed him to lots of different people and ideas, etc. Interestingly enough, he didn't talk much until he was 3 or 4. When it came time for high school, his parents were very unhappy with what the local high school offered: he was well ahead of anything it offered in math, and there was no interest in trying to meet his needs. He could have gone to the state science and math magnet hs, but he would have had to be a boarder, and they didn't want that. Finally, they enrolled him in a catholic military school, even though they were not catholic. He thrived there, both intellectually and socially, and is now a grad student in physics at a prestigious university. I was amazed at his transition from the unstructured, self-motivated world of montesori to the overly structured school. So long as the montessori satisfies their needs, I'd say keep them there, but don't be in a rush to move them up to a different group if they are not acting bored or unhappy.

My other experience was a boy I taught who went from the 8th grade to college, without going to hs at all. He was in a small public school which was very good about recognizing his needs. starting the summer after his 6th grade he started taking university courses, and aced them. Of course, his mother or father supervised him on campus. In the fall, he went to the middle school, but continued to take some courses at the university. In his 8th grade, the English teacher prepared a special course for him to expose him to a lot of the literature he would have been exposed to in high school. His parents insisted on keeping all this out of the papers: they did not want publicity and all parties obliged. The boy also had various extracurricular activities with his age group. (in the middle school, he was about 2 years ahead.) The other kids liked him, and didn't seem to mind that he was gone part of the day, or why. The school had had students who were athletic competitors at a national level, so they had some experience with accommodating unusual students.

In summary, you have to know your children, and whether their needs, physical, mental, social are being met by their school. I would be reluctant to push them too fast, instead trying to be sure they developed as human beings by good social interactions with other kids. It is a myth that brilliant kids can't have friends. If your public school can work with you, wonderful. If not, find a school that will.

Good luck!

[rucky]

37. Gifted programs don't factor much one way or another...

most are pull-outs for a half-hour, a couple times a week. they won't cure boredom, or advance them much - mostly a creative place to blow some steam.

I'd go with Montessouri, or if you can find a Reggio program in your area, I'd highly recommend that.

[ColbertWatcher]

38. My suggestion for a field to "push" them into: art.

Any of them.

Music, painting, sculpture, whatever you can afford.

Also, if they seem to be doing really well in languages, let them explore more languages than just English and Spanish.

French, Latin, Hindi, Gaelic, whatever's available at your local library.

Oh, and teach them a little economics too. You don't want them getting screwed over when they get older, like we are now.

[SteelPenguin]

43. I agree with this

Try not to focus on any specific area but give them alot of areas. Let them try different things, and expose them to a variety along the way. I'd say make them pick an instrument and have them always taking a musical instrument at any time, let them pick which. I'd recommend Suzuki Violin.

Also don't ignore 'physical' activities. just because they're smart doesn't mean they shouldn't play soccer or do judo or something (once they're old enough).

[ColbertWatcher]

44. Good point about physical activities.

I'd suggest taking them camping. When we were younger we used to love going rock climbing.

[old mark]

40. IB: My wife and I were in situations similar to your childrens.

I read "real" books before Kindergarten, my wife did the same. We both ran into teachers who were intimidated (we now believe) by us and we reacted in different ways. I played dumb, and went through my entire school life - K-12 - hating schoold and just struggling to get through it.
My wife acted out and got into trouble, eventually skipping most of her last 2 years of high school.

My wife's IQ tested a little over 155, mine at 149.
I was offered a chance to attend "enriched" classes- but no one ever spoke to me about it - they talked to my dad and he told them "no".
I never knew this till years later.
My wife never went to class anyway, so she refused as well.

I hope you will investigate your public school's programs before the big day comes - I appreciate a lot of what you are saying and I strongly urge you to let the children pick their areas of concentration when they will.

My wife and I both had drug addiction problems, and very unhappy work experiences. Neither of us ever wanted children of our own because we didn't want them exposed to society as we experienced it.
We both feel lucky to have survived so far.
FWIW.

mark

[MedleyMisty]

41. I am replying without reading the rest of the thread first

because I kind of get touchy and preachy about this subject.

First, my credentials to prove that I can have an opinion, although not a professional or parental one - I started reading at two. In second grade I was doing my brother's senior English homework for him. I read Agatha Christie's And Then There Were None and told him the answers to the questions - I think he got a 92.

My father died when I was in first grade and I had some sessions with the school counselor. I think that was who recommended that I be tested, because my mother actually still isn't aware that reading at two isn't completely normal. Anyway, I don't remember the first test but I do remember the re-test in fifth grade, and how the results summary said that I was working at college level and above and had the temperament and abilities to go far with my life.

I went through the normal age/grade lockstep in rural public schools, although I did get to go to Duke's TIP program in the summers after scoring high enough on the verbal part of the SAT in 7th grade. I turned out just fine. But what worked for me may not work for someone else. You know your kids best. Also, research your local schools and see what's up with them - not all public schools are the same and some have really good gifted programs.

Also, I just felt the need to say that intellectual giftedness does not always result in socially expected and acceptable external achievement. For one thing, a lot of gifted people are born into situations that don't allow them opportunities to express that giftedness in the ways that our society expects. Also, it may be my personal prejudice but I think that exceptionally and profoundly gifted people would be way more likely to reject our society than to try and conform and fit in and accept its expectations and rules.

I've always thought that giftedness is more who you are than what you do. What you do is so defined by external things that you can't help - being in the right place at the right time, having rich and connected and/or involved parents, getting a lucky break. But no matter what you do on the outside, you always think differently than the majority of people on the inside. You always have your "overexcitabilities", as they're called by Dabrowski.

I have a bookmark list full of gifted resources, but I imagine you can find most of them on your own. A good place to start is http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/

[ohheckyeah]

47. I'm not a parent or educater but I do

have a nephew who is a genius. He did quite well in public schools that had gifted programs. My sister could never have afford private schools. His school allowed him to take college courses and that kept him from being bored. He took 5 years of Latin for fun.

He's now in college studying medical biochemistry.

[librechik]

49. get ready to hand them the books and tools they need and step out of the way.

my gifted child outgrew the special ed for highly gifted program and taught himself at home.

He did fine, even attended college--now he has a great job in Australia at the art Museum in Victoria.

[surrealAmerican]

50. I would be VERY wary of putting them in ...

... any "educational" program before they are five or six at least. What children learn in preschool is how to navigate a peer group, and how to interact with teachers. These skills are every bit as important as any academic topic they could be studying, and if they learn these "lessons" well it will help them immeasurably in the rest of their childhood.
That said, you will not be able to prevent them from learning what they are interested in learning. They will let you know what you need to be doing. Let them choose their own books. Take them to museums. Plant a garden. See if they start playing with the piano. You don't have to lead them all the time, you want to let them lead themselves.

[AtomicKitten]

51. My daughter was in the GATE program and benefited greatly.

Montessori
Teen Jeopardy
Ph.D., UC Berkeley
Rhodes Scholar

[elleng]

52. I suggest that you stick with Montessori,

as from what I know they/it will enable them to go where they want and can at their own pace. I'd not expect that in most 'other' schools.

Have a WONDERFUL time!

:grouphug:

[Lorien]

53. I attended private and "alternative" schools for the gifted

The alternative schools were run by the public school system, but this was in a liberal college town in the 1970s, so I think that programs today might not be comparable. I wasn't as gifted as most of my classmates, so that caused a few problems for me-but I wouldn't change my education for anything. We were taught to ask questions, think for ourselves, and we developed a life long love of learning. It was fun; it didn't feel like a punishment.

I don't think that you can guide your child's passions. A friend of mine has a child who is without a doubt a genius. When he was two his passion was vacuum cleaners. When he was five his passion was U.S. Presidents. When he was six he developed a love for classical music-especially opera- and that one stuck. He learned Finnish and Italian by age 7 so that he could write operas in those languages (I have no idea how many languages he knows now). Today he is 23 and in the doctoral program at Juilliard, where he also teaches. His parents never pushed him in any direction; they just exposed him to a wide variety of subjects and when one grabbed his interest they encouraged his passion for it. Most of all they simply allowed him to be himself and let him know that they would love and accept him no matter what he wanted to be; vacuum cleaner salesman or famous composer, either would be fine by them!

Oh, and he attended public schools, but his school system was exceptional.