Quote for the Day

[ourbluenation]

"The United States participated actively and effectively in the negotiation of the Convention . It marks a significant step in the development during this century of international measures against torture and other inhuman treatment or punishment. Ratification of the Convention by the United States will clearly express United States opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately still prevalent in the world today....

...The core provisions of the Convention establish a regime for international cooperation in the criminal prosecution of torturers relying on so-called 'universal jurisdiction.' Each State Party is required either to prosecute torturers who are found in its territory or to extradite them to other countries for prosecution.

...By giving its advice and consent to ratification of this Convention, the Senate of the United States will demonstrate unequivocally our desire to bring an end to the abhorrent practice of torture."

Ronald Reagan in a signing statement ratifying the UN Convention on Torture, 1984

[annabanana]

1. Boy Howdy if THAT doesn't deserve a K&R, I don't know what does. . .n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. Other, 1988--->

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1079/is_n2137_v88/ai_6742034/

[JuniperLea]

3. Thank you Ronnie! RIP, big guy...

Once in a while... and I love that it comes from the GOP's beloved!

[ourbluenation]

4. He's their patron saint. Seems this would carry some weight n/t

[JuniperLea]

10. That's what I'm thinking...

He's nearly GOP God!

[TheBigotBasher]

23. Nah - they are prepared to go after their other Patron Saint, Thatcher.

Effectively the Virgin Mary of the GOP. They are using her name in a smear campaign against Al Gore on the environment (even though she was no global warming denier), so of course they are prepared to forget about Reagan.

Within a few years the GOP will consider Reagan and Thatcher to be pinko commies and will again worship at the altar of W.

[Baby Snooks]

30. He's their patron saint only when it suits their purpose...

They have avoided invoking his name with regard to immigration reform because of course he would remind them he signed a bill into law that was supposed to take care of the problem once and for all.

He and Barbara Jordan were on opposite ends of the ideological/political spectrum and yet both told Congress the same thing - American workers first.

The Democrats didn't listen to Ronald Reagan. The Republicans didn't listen to Barbara Jordan. They were only listening to the money of the lobbyists for the corporate interests who wanted cheap labor and didn't care about the American worker.

[11 Bravo]

13. Yup, Rot In Pasadena (or wherever they stuffed the miserable bastard.)

[Joe Chi Minh]

24. Are you serious? The article linked below explains the cynical rationale

behind St Ronnie's apparent change of policy.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ronald_Reagan/ReaganDoctrine_TWRollback.html

Interesting about the Heritage Foundation, too. Some heritage Abu Ghraib has They own it.

[Mira]

5. Proudly recommend this for the 5th one. This should be

printed out and put on sheets of paper under the wind shield wipers in shopping centers.

[ourbluenation]

8. great idea. will do. n/t

[dixiegrrrrl]

12. or some brave soul can sneak over to Freeper ville and post it.

I'd volunteer, but ...uh....I have a bad back. Yeah, that's it.

[Bluerthanblue]

6. k&R kind of karmic that it was 1984!

:hi:

[adiabatic]

7. And a quarter century later it is still

"an abhorrent practice unfortunately still prevalent in the world today.... "

[backtoblue]

9. K & R

[Snotcicles]

11. Cha Ching ***** POST OF THE DAY***** a big k&r on this one. nt

[ColbertWatcher]

14. k+r, n/t

[ejbr]

15. K & mother f&ckin R n/t

[nevergiveup]

16. Oh my!

Show this to freepers at your own risk.

[haydukelives]

17. yes I am sure I want to recomend this thread

kick

[stlsaxman]

18. Certainly Cheney or Rumsfeld didn't write this for old Gippy- wonder who did? knr!

[peace frog]

19. Freepers can always equivocate

It's their special defense against reality. They will simply reassure themselves Saint Ronnie's quote cannot be attributed even remotely to the torture debate of today, and that will be the end of it (in their puny minds).

[Old Codger]

20. Exactly

This reinforces the fact that The United States government has and ethical, moral and legal duty to either investigate and prosecute the confessed torturers or to allow some other country to do so. there is no chance for equivocation on this matter

[66 dmhlt]

21. Gotta believe Dubya did Ronnie one better:

Statement from http://italy.usembassy.gov/viewer/article.asp?article=/file2003_06/alia/A3062613.htm">Bush's very own White House on June 26, 2003:

Bush Calls Torture "An Affront to Human Dignity Everywhere" - June 26, 2003

THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
June 26, 2003

STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT

United Nations International Day in Support of Victims of Torture

(snip)

"The United States is committed to the world-wide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example. I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment. I call on all nations to speak out against torture in all its forms and to make ending torture an essential part of their diplomacy."

[Kaleko]

33. Bull's-eye. There it is in W's own words.

This statement and others like it should be one of our main talking-points in this debate.

Welcome to DU!

(And if I may give some friendly advice... enable your profile to be viewed by others. It's a token sign of having nothing to hide.)

[LSK]

22. 1984??? Wasnt that about the time we were selling arms to Iran AND Iraq???

And wreaking havoc in Central America?

:shrug:

[Pacifist Patriot]

25. You mean there's a time we weren't?

"And wreaking havoc in Central America?"

[Bluenorthwest]

26. Oh yes, oh yes

this is a DU thread that deserves to be a DU thread! Great find....

[Martin Eden]

27. You should be aware of the rest of his signing statement

At the same time Saint Ronnie was expressing our nation's stance against torture, he also stated that we would in effect be immune to prosecution by the body set up to enforce the convention:

In view of the large number of States concerned, it was not possible to negotiate a treaty that was acceptable to the United States in all respects. Accordingly, certain reservations, understandings, and declarations have been drafted, which are discussed in the report of the Department of State. With the inclusion of these reservations, understandings, and declarations, I believe there are no constitutional or other legal obstacles to United States ratification, The recommended legislation necessary to implement the Convention will be submitted to the Congress separately.

Should the Senate give its advice and consent to ratification of the Convention, I intend at the time of deposit of United States ratification to make a declaration pursuant to Article 28 that the United States does not recognize the competence of the Committee against Torture under Article 20 to make confidential investigations of charges that torture is being systematically practiced in the United States. In addition, I intend not to make declarations, pursuant to Articles 21 and 22 of the Convention, recognizing the competence of the Committee against Torture to receive and consider communications from States and individuals alleging that the United States is violating the Convention. I believe that a final United States decision as to whether to accept such competence of the Committee should be withheld until we have had an opportunity to assess the Committee's work. It would be possible for the United States in the future to accept the competence of the Committee pursuant to Articles 20, 21, and 22, should experience with the Committee prove satisfactory and should the United States consider this step desirable.

Link:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1079/is_n2137_v88/ai_6742034/

[Baby Snooks]

32. No doubt at the urging of the shadow president...

So much of Ronald Reagan's presidency was really the shadow presidency of George HW Bush. According to George Will, at the time anyway, Ronald Reagan knew very little about Iran-Contra. He certainly didn't know it was set in motion long before he was elected president.

[grantcart]

28. Unfortunately it is quoting Ron Reagan postal employee at Spring Valley, CA

K and R

[TankLV]

29. Oppie! Seems like arrest, prosecution and punishment is DEMANDED by ANY country in the WORLD

against the outlaw country IF IT DOESN'T POLICE ITSELF!!!

[malaise]

31. So the question to Rushicans supporting torture is

'so you disagree with Reagan on torture'?
We should send this to Tweety - he's still stupidly asking if it worked.
It didn't work but that does not matter since lots of illegal things work but people are sent to prison for violating the law.

That is all.