Ever heard a Rightie say "Socialism doesn't work except in the military!!!111!"?

[ck4829]

If there is an exception to the rule, then it's not much of a rule to begin with.

[Buzz Clik]

1. The military is socialism?

[baldguy]

2. Individual members subsume their personal profit for the good of the whole.

The govt provides everything the individual members need.

[Buzz Clik]

4. Profit? What profit?

I suppose there is some branch of socialism somewhere that advocates that a central group of authority figures tells the populace what to do with every waking moment of their day; where the "underclass" has no voice at all in their governance; where the state not only provides everything but also runs everything.

[tanyev]

6. "The govt provides everything the individual members need."

Unless, of course, the GOP is in charge. Then they screw that up, too.

[Captain Hilts]

9. Absolutely.

You need to get out of your self-affirming bubble.

[Buzz Clik]

10. I ask a question and get insulted. Nice.

I disagree with your assessment and that of the OP. Why don't you see if you can respond without the insults.

[baldguy]

15. .

:nopity:

[Buzz Clik]

24. I've had quite enough of you.

You act like an ass on every thread.

[baldguy]

26. I apologize - I had assumed I was dealing with an adult who's able to hold their own

without accusing everyone of ganging up on them when they post something stupid.

[Captain Hilts]

16. If you can't see where a society in which everybody works for the govt. lives in govt-provided

housing, has govt-provided healthcare and has comparatively flat pay pyramids is NOT socialism, then I can't help you.

[Buzz Clik]

25. There are a lot of definitions of socialism, do any of them include the military command structure?

Granted, there are elements of socialism in the military, but it NOT socialist.

Could you give me another example of socialism that advocates that a central group of authority figures tells the populace what to do with every waking moment of their day; where the "underclass" has no voice at all in their governance; where the state not only provides everything but also runs everything? Give me that example, and I'll gladly concede the point to you.

[ck4829]

13. I've heard some right wingers say something about the military being "socialist" and only that's OK

I'm looking for exact quotes to back up my point, supposedly Glenn Beck said something to the effect of "Big government is OK as long as it's only in the military."

Here's something to help show my OP better...

"Why do you people want the gov running anything of value other than the miltiary"
Link

[Buzz Clik]

28. So, I guess you're saying that the righties are contradicting themselves when, on the one hand...

... they snarl at universal health care as "socialist" but support the VA and its health care system; despise big government but pour as much money as possible into incredibly wasteful military programs.

It's not that the military is a socialist institution but it has socialist elements and stinks of big government; nevertheless, the right worships it.

I absolutely agree.

[DailyGrind51]

3. "This individuality stuff is a bunch of crap..."

"This individuality stuff is a bunch of crap. The biggest bastards who wrote that stuff about individuality for the Saturday Evening Post, don't know anything more about real battle than they do about fornicating..." General George S. Patton

http://www.wjpbr.com/patton.html

[Captain Hilts]

8. Exactly. In the military it's all about the collective. I've always loved that quotation. nt

[KharmaTrain]

5. They Really Mean "I'm A Selfish Asshole"

Dig at the real root and what right wingers really mean is they're selfish bores. They want everything and not have to pay taxes and make/spend as much as they want on what they want. Almost every "argument" can be traced to being selfish. Global warming deniers? Reality means not having the "right" to pilage the planet or drive their gas guzzlers. Corporations love the selfish cause not only are they solid customers, they play PR agents.

It's always fun to spin a wingnut with what a purely "capitalist" society means. Every street would be a tollroad, you either have to take out your own retainer for police and fire or "pay as you go"...wait while your credit card is processed before they will answer your call. You can throw these realities and watch the wingnut spin into pancakes.

[patrice]

22. I've looked at it every which way from Sunday, and THAT'S THE essential issue.

These are people who place money and property ahead of every other value (including Life), even when they have supposedly committed themselves to somekind of collective endeavor such as the Military.

Not, of course, that all Military fall into this category, but I know from personal experience that a significant portion of them do. Xe is a very logical progression in this basic fact.

[Captain Hilts]

7. Yes, military life is a great ad for socialism. I grew up under socialism. Navy housing.nt

[NightWatcher]

11. the government cant provide healthcare like in Europe...except for the VA

but that's different right?

I get that defense from old Vets who like the VA they go to.

[Buzz Clik]

12. This is an interesting thread.

I get the impression that the OP is a proponent of socialism/socialist programs. I also get the impression that half of the respondents to this thread despise socialism and use the military as perfect example of why socialism is a failure. Given half a chance, I suspect this thread will get even stranger.

[Captain Hilts]

17. Hate to say it, but between the military and congressional health benefits - most help men more than

women. One of the reasons older men can be conservatives is because if they're vets they know they'll be taken care of.

[patrice]

14. There are many varieties of Socialism. What characteristic(s) or quality(s) do they have in common?

[Captain Hilts]

18. In the draft military community in which I grew up, pay scales were very flat from bottom to top. nt

[patrice]

19. I was starting to think about it had to do with some agreement about what is exchanged for what, but

then I got distracted by the dishes. I will return to this line of thinking later, but in re statements from another poster in this thread about how completely regimented the life of the military is, ergo, by implication, it isn't Socialism, I was asking myself if it isn't a brand of Socialism in exchange for which the individual pays a higher price in non-tangibles, like degree of autonomy, than other brands of Socialism. We all knew up front what we were signing over when we raised our hands and swore that oath.

[Captain Hilts]

20. I don't think the regimentation is it at all. It's that the collective comes first...

and everybody works for the govt. The govt. provides everything.

Your sources of status don't come from money or possessions. They come from the unit you're in, the ship you're on, etc.

[patrice]

21. So as long as the collective comes first . . .

No matter how big or little the bite on the individual to be a member of the collective, as long as that bite is first, i.e. comes before all other decisions, the collective is Socialist.

Ergo, an objection that says the Military is not Socialistic, because it's individual members have to give too much, is wrong, and, in fact, we might say that in those Socialistic environments in which, not only does the collective comes first, but also the price that the individual pays for whatever they are deriving from the collective is higher than others are MORE Socialistic than other forms of Socialism.

P.S. I hope you will have a little patience with me while I work this out; I am preparing to respond to an absolutely horrific email that got posted into our family list recently, by a very powerful member of my Family AND I'm trying to get a little housework done.

[Captain Hilts]

23. People in the Army laugh at the 'Army of One' ad campaign.

It's an interesting topic people need to think about.

[yodoobo]

27. Actually, I don't think I've heard that one.

I'm a supporter of socialism, but if the military is our prime example, I may have to rethink it.