I'm angry at the torturers. And those who enabled them. Want to know why?

[Duer 157099]

Because they put me in a position of feeling empathy for the likes of KSM and the other actual terrorists who were tortured.

God damn them!

And I'm serious.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

1. That is a GREAT point!

They wouldn't deserve ANY sympathy from ANYONE except that they are TORTURE VICTIMS which tends to provide them with a cloak of MARTRYDOM! Best observation of the week!

[EFerrari]

2. Feeling empathy for another human being not matter who they are just means

you're a sane person.

[Duer 157099]

5. Yes, but if they were just sitting in prison after being convicted for their crimes

I would not feel this way, nor would I find myself spending time considering and constructing arguments in favor of humane treatment of those dispicable creatures.

But because they were tortured, that's where I find myself.

[EFerrari]

7. Empathy and sympathy aren't the same thing.

Empathy is the ability to understand or to "feel" as another does.

Sympathy has the element of agreement that empathy does not.

You can empathize with someone while you disagree with them, dislike them, even hate them.

And I do see what you're saying about even associating yourself enough to empathize.

[nini]

3. I have no sympathy for ACTUAL terrorists

I have sympathy for those who are being held and tortured when they are not guilty of anything.

I simply cannot feel sorry for someone who does the kind of crap they do. This does not change the fact I believe torture is wrong - I do.

[Duer 157099]

6. OK, remove the feeling/emotion from it

I should have worded my post to omit any emotion, because that's not really the crux of it either.

It's that I'm in a position of defending the human rights of these filthy terrorists, that's what it is.

This must be how it feels to be a criminal attorney, knowing you are defending a guilty person, and still having to go and do it.

[nini]

8. I can agree with that

good analogy in the defense attorney angle - that makes sense to how I see this.

[lunatica]

4. I think of it more as that it makes us as bad as KSM

I don't feel KSM is a victim, although it could have done his humanity some good if he had been treated with respect and been put away for life by the courts of the land. To live out the remainder of his life in the country he tried to destroy.

But by torturing him we are the ones who must acknowledge our dark side. To me that's far worse than whether he's worthy of sympathy or not. As Pogo said, we have met the enemy and it is us.

[TexasObserver]

9. We have to remember that we don't do it for them, we do it for us.

Vengeance is an easy response to injury. We know that we should incarcerate without injuring. We know that even those accused of the most heinous acts deserve a minimum level of good treatment.

We don't do it because they deserve it. We do it so we never become like them.

[EFerrari]

10. # 94 They that have the power to hurt and will do none

They that have power to hurt, and will do none,
That do not do the thing they most do show,
Who, moving others, are themselves as stone,
Unmoved, cold, and to temptation slow;
They rightly do inherit heaven's graces,
And husband nature's riches from expense;
They are the lords and owners of their faces,
Others, but stewards of their excellence.
The summer's flower is to the summer sweet,
Though to itself, it only live and die,
But if that flower with base infection meet,
The basest weed outbraves his dignity:
For sweetest things turn sourest by their deeds;
Lilies that fester, smell far worse than weeds.

-- William Shakespeare