Repugs Say: If you Go after Bush Cheney..We will get Obama On War Crimes in Afghanistan!

[KoKo]

COME ON AFTER US...WE WILL GET YOU for DRONE KILLING OF INNOCENT WOMEN AND CHILDREN!

On that Friday Scarborough Show. Joe said " If they come after us on Torture ...we will get Obama onDrones that killed Women and Children in Afghanistan.

It was a shot across the bow and a threat from Repugs whining over Bush/Cheney Prosecutions to let us know that IF we GO AFTER Bush/Cheney...they will make our lives miserable.

It's taken me awhile to post this. I hope other DU'ers saw this threat from Repug Spokesperson "Joe, Scar" that most of us dislike. But, what's important is that he's the voice of the RW on Cable MSNBC and if he says "If you come after us...we will Go After You...."

How can we who voted Obama IN to end both Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq deal with this threat. Or, should we.

Isn't Obama doing exactly what he said in going to find Osama in Afghanistan? (Most of us on the Left know Osama is dead...but we do believe that there are terrorists who follow what Osama did...but we don't think it's as organized as what our Government has told us.

Should we care if Obama is sanctioning "Drones" targeting and killing women and children...even if they are innocent (married to Taliban and Terrorists)?

If Obama uses "Drones" to do "sterilized killing" does he not have to answer to the same "International Laws Against Crimes against Humanity that Bush/Cheney, need to? :shrug:

It surely must be a moral compromise for our Dems who were elected to stop these WARS.

I don't know. I go back and forth...trying to parse out an answer to the morality of using "unmanned vehicles" instead of Blackwater or US Fire Power to kill innocents ...just because some intelligence says that there's a "cell of women and children" tied by relatives to the Taliban and so we must "WIPE THEM OUT" by some young recruit in Military over in Tampa hitting a Video Game type "Button" to wipe out folks very far away by an "Unmanned/Unnamed Drone" who does the dirty work...without human involvement...except the person who "pushed the button."

:-( Dark Stuff... Stuff that goes into your soul and makes you wonder who you are to pay taxes to support "robot drones" killing instead of people who may or may not have some sort of conscience or moral compass.

Sad Times...

[tekisui]

1. I am against the use of drones, but....

The drones take off from within Pakistan, with Pakistani intelligence assistance. It seems evident that the Pakistani government is fully aware of the attacks, which would not make it a war crime, but a joint action.

I still think it is wrong, but the practice started under bush, and continued under Obama.

[NYC_SKP]

2. "Obama is sanctioning "Drones" targeting and killing women and children"

Show me.

Prove it.

Please provide a reliable link to, "Obama is sanctioning "Drones" targeting and killing women and children."

[EFerrari]

11. Go search "drones kill civilians Pakistan".

That is what we're doing at the moment. I don't support it. But that doesn't mean that Morning Ho's blackmail attempt is anything more than that.

[NYC_SKP]

18. I did exactly that.

And, not surprisingly, discovered that only RW idiots and LW drama queens ever wrote anything close to that.

What is clear is that drones are being used.

Also, that innocent civilians are being killed by these drones.

But creating a new non-fact like, "Obama sanctions TARGETING women and children with drones" or whatever it is in the OP, is just BS.

Words matter.

Making shit up is shit-stirring, plain and simple.

[EFerrari]

22. If words matter so much to you, you might be more careful

about characterizing the OP or about attacking her for what right wing nutcases said.

Good grief.

[NYC_SKP]

28. I stand by my words, "targeting and killing women" is bullshit. Actually,

The post in question is poorly formatted.

If the words are not the DU member's, then there should be a source link or something else to differentiate.

I can't tell what words are others' and what words (and thoughts) are hers.

That's not my fault.

I stand by calling bullshit on this turd:

"Obama is sanctioning "Drones" targeting and killing women and children"

So, you tell me, are these her words or someone else's??? :shrug:

[EFerrari]

29. The problem with your attack on the OP is that women and children are being killed.

And yes, your posts to this board are your responsibility as DU rules make abundantly clear.

This is a difficult situation and it requires thoughtfulness, not knee jerk calling out which any schoolyard bully can do.

[Usrename]

43. They ARE targeting women and children.

Your argument is idiotic at best.

When they KNOW that women and children are in a house and they target that house, ARE targeting women and children.

You ought to stop and think about what you are saying BEFORE you start insulting other posters.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

44. Too many of you are too quick to insult your fellow posters

when asking questions and actual discussion would get us all further ahead.

Koko is a long time DUer and she deserves better than that from the knee jerks.

[Usrename]

45. The TRUTH is that they ARE targeting non-combatants.

When they target a house that they KNOW contains women and children, then they are targeting non-combatants.

How difficult is that to understand?

:shrug:

[Xipe Totec]

3. That's an admission that they put party before country n/t

[Xicano]

56. Exactly Xipe Totec. We seem to have degraded into factions.

Its abundantly clear that no matter what George Bush did contrary to our laws and treaties we have signed the right wing faction would protect him. Conversely the same holds true with the left wing faction in our country.

However upon further analysis it is quite clear that the so-called leaders of the RW & LW factions are acting on behalf of the same interests belonging to a third faction - the corporate faction. This illustrates that we, the LW & RW factions, are being played off against each other in the age old tactic of divide and conquer.

It cannot be denied that while we, the LW & RW factions, sit here constantly at each other that there is a common opponent our so-called LW & RW leaders are serving the interests of, often against our and our country's interests. Therefore the question is not whether did George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice, etc violate a number of serious laws. We all watched as they did. The question is why isn't our current so-called LW leaders pursuing their constitutional duty to prosecute these serious violations of our laws? The answer: Because as already pointed out leaders on both sides are acting on behalf of the third faction - the corporate interests.

[Xipe Totec]

59. You lost me when you equated left wing to right wing

That comparison is not borne out by facts, or by philosophical inclination.

If there is one damming weakness to the left wing is that we value our individual opinions above group think.

It takes a grave national threat to coalesce the left into a united front.

Barring that, you might as well try herding cats.

The right wing is the party of atavism, and fascism. Despite their chest-thumping about individualism, they are, philosophically communists; willing to put the interests of their party first.

[CTyankee]

4. We firebombed innocent civilians in Dresden Germany in WW2, perhaps to terrorize and demoralize

Nazi Germany. Before dropping the atomic bombs, we fire bombed Japanese cities as well. Nothing like jellied gasoline to make a house made of wood and paper go up in flames real fast.

We hammered the hell out of Berlin in the last days of the war. Much of Germany lay in ruins.

And yet, that was a "good war."

[Thothmes]

24. No, it was war.

In its final rendition, it was them or us. We as a nation chose "us" what happened to "them" was of their own making.

[CTyankee]

26. Yes, in many ways this is true. But there were innocents killed. Babies weren't Nazis.

Did we HAVE to firebomb the city of Dresden? Could we not have defeated the Nazis by bombing armament factories and fighting its army and navy?

[Thothmes]

41. We in fact did bomb their factories

and we fought their army and navy. Them moved their factories to the underground where our bombs would little effect. The moved their factores to Poland where our bombers could not reach. We sank their ships, and the build more. We killed their soldiers and they drafted more to replace them.
The good citizens of Dresden or Berlin were engaged in manufacturing the tools of the Nazi war machine. They built tanks, aircraft, weapons, ammunition
trucks, all of the material necessary to fight a war. Just as in the United States during these years, German citizenry supported their war effort and labored for it. That makes them targets, just like the citizens in Tidewater Virginia would have been targets for working in the numerous shipyards
here building warships and transports to support our war effort.

[Uben]

5. They have nothing......

....they are scared shitless! The republican party is on the brink of collapse. Their already tarnished image from the Bush years is hanging by a thread. Torture convictions of the leaders of their party would surely send followers running for the hills. So, let's prosecute every last one of them involved to the fullest extent of the law!

[WeDidIt]

6. Empty Threat

USe of drones in war time is not illegal under any law, so long as there is not specific targeting of civilian populations.

Use of waterboarding is a violation of international law and the law of any nation that has signed on to the Geneva Conventions.

[bemildred]

7. Bring it. nt

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

8. Did he say "we"? Is he an actual Republican mouthpiece and strategist?

and do they really want to go there if they open that up as a new area for investigation? Wouldn't their casualites far surpass Obama's for a program they now pretend to eschew?

[santamargarita]

17. When a Republican says 'we' that means he has a turd in his pocket

:crazy:

[pacalo]

9. Providing they have something to "get" him on, aren't they forgetting that

their membership numbers in Congress have reached the "pitiful" level? Where are they going to get the vote support that's needed to "get" him?

It's a moot scenario, considering that Obama has outlawed Bush's methods.

[BlooInBloo]

10. Good luck with that.

[barbtries]

12. who is this "we"

he's talking about? :shrug:

hannity represents a failed movement full of people who will never be able to credibly claim the high ground ethically or morally or any other fucking way.

i'm all for ending all the wars years ago. obama's guilt though in my eyes will be far worse if his administration does not pursue the crimes of the previous one.

[KoKo]

33. What Joe Scarborough really means is the "Powers that Be" who came after Clinton will Come After YOU

That's the way I heard it. It was a shot across the bow. And BTW...Pat Buchanan has echoed that "shot across the bow" from the Repugs.

Remember the Repugs and Libertarians own most of the Hight Powered Think Tanks and RW Fundie Organizations who still have (even in these limited financial times) the GREAT POWER to UNDO any Democratic President.

Look at the history of Dem Presidents from Kennedy Assassination on down...through the years...and you will see. Just GOOGLE all our Dem Presidents in the 20th Century... SEE THE VILE SPEW against them.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

13. He crossed a line. Get him off the air NOW! nt

[SalmonChantedEvening]

14. "they will make our lives miserable."

Making lives miserable is part of the GOP platform.

Still nothing new from the party of NO.

[Raine1967]

15. Is there a link, or video that you are referring to?

I would be easier to make an informed comment after referring to what you are speaking of.

Thanks,
Raine

[Gman]

16. That is absolutely ridiculous on its face. It's absurd, ludicrous.

What you're seeing is rats in a complete uninhibited panic. The torture issue and the prospect that many of them could be in prison very soon has got them in a complete panic to the point that they're ranting about irrational retaliation and deal cutting.

Don't try to make sense out of the ravings of those who will do or scream anything to keep from going to prison.

[rug]

19. Fuck them. BTW, fuck drone killing too.

[lunatica]

20. Is Scarborough threatening President Obama?

Does he truly believe that anyone would run and hide in fear of him? That saying something as totally egotistical as this makes him all big and bad and scary?!

What an idiot! :rofl:

[NYC_SKP]

21. Wow, both of BUSH's wars really suck.

I'm glad our president is doing his best to deal with these huge fuck ups, wish it could resolve sooner.

He'll get it done, what a mess.

[KoKo]

23. It's a sad mess for those with "moral compasses," too... Because

we either side with Obama's advice from Military to do a "Drone Killing" or "Prosecute Bush/Cheney" for Blackwater, CIA, FBI for "hands on torture."

In the end...isn't all of it wrong and "War Crimes Against Humanity?" :shrug: '

Where is the "line of difference." ?????

[NYC_SKP]

27. So, Bush is holding a baby outside a window 60 floors up....Then Obama takes over.

At some point, since it's Obama in Bush's shoes, he's holding a baby outside a window 60 floors up.

Meanwhile, he's also taken on 2,326,982 other crises.

The turnaround doesn't happen overnight, or even in three months.

I don't pretend to know all the details about drones, or how hard it might be to transition from insane international practices of the past to sane one's.

But I trust my president to be doing the best he can and to agree with you and I that drones hitting innocents is a bad thing that needs to end.

You do believe that he believes that, don't you?

[KoKo]

30. As I said in the OP...I don't know the answer...but it eats into some of our souls

how you can compare what Bush/Cheney did to what Obama's new Administration is doing.

We who are Dems ...so long in the wildnerness..want to give Obama a "break" on this ...using Drones to kill.

But, are the killing of women and children any different whether Bush/Cheney do it with bombs and Blackwater, or Obama does it with "unmanned Drones" with some anonymous person pushing a "KILL BUTTON" that still causes the same death and destruction?

I don't know...but I think there's some moral problem here that needs to be addressed. :shrug:

[NYC_SKP]

32. We fundamentally agree.

I just don't know how a president goes about changing things.

I can't take at face value a claim by others that women are being targeted.

If this is true, I'm appalled.

And even if they are Pakistani's in charge of these, and the women are only collateral damage and not being targeted, I'm appalled.

But I don't think that phrases that aren't truthful, "targeting women and children", are productive.

"Targeting" means selectively killing.

Is that happening?

[KoKo]

34. When both Cheney (Gulf War I)and Rummy (ME War II) used the term Collateral Damage

about Women and Children...then we really have a Moral HOLE to crawl into.

What really should be condoned about "Collateral Damage" when it applies to innocents. Yeah...I know the Military tells us that Terrorists use Women and Children as Shields and that's how they operate...and WAR IS WAR... After all we Bombed Dresden in WWII to use "SHOW OF FORCE" to scare these even men into realizing that their Wives and the children of their heritage to carry on WILL BE KILLED...IF..IF..you DO NOT STOP THIS WAR!

IOWD's we kill the women and children to get them to stop the terrorism or wars. We try to teach them a "lesson" to stop the VIOLENCE.

Yet .....we fail to realize...if you kill the women and the children..NO ONE EVER FORGETS...and MORE TERRORISTS ARE CREATED.

When does killing Women and Children ever work? Tyrands, Dictators and the rest have been doing this since the dawn of time (just like raping of women and pillaging the wealth of a culture) from the beginning of time showed DOMINANCE.

All it's led to is Perpetual War, anger, generations of retribution, hate against the Vandals who do this.

We never seem to learn. And in this time...it's even more egregious...given that women have tried so hard to finally have some sort of rights in our modern society for both themselves, and their children.

Whatever...it eats into all our souls what is being done...I don't know how we live with it as a Modern Civilization given what went on in WWII!

[NYC_SKP]

37. I agree and I remember well the bombings of infrastructure in the Balkans in the 90s.

And I hated that, I was ashamed.

And I remember seeing bombed out churches and places in Europe where new buildings stood next to old building that remained after bombings and still feeling, to the extent that I could, the terrible sense of loss to the residents, innocent residents.

You know, even after years, decades, I think the scars to the psyche remain.

I even think they are passed on by generation to generation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think it's fair to say that President Obama is not doing enough to reverse the past and end what is happening.

I do not think it's fair to say he's sanctioning "targeting and killing women".

And, I'm pretty confident that, among the past four presidents or more, he's the most likely to take all of this in the right direction.

In lieu of a handshake smiley: :thumbsup:

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

25. joe, are you sure you want to talk about dead women?

[KoKo]

31. There's no one who will deal with Joe's "Dead Intern." She is dead in her grave

and Joe has his own show.

What does that tell you? :shrug:

[kentuck]

35. Can we now add extortion to the list of charges?

:mad:

[KoKo]

36. They NEVER GIVE UP...even in the face of their own MORAL DEPRAVITY...

Do They? NO...

It goes beyond what any of us ever believed was what was "rule of law" and "checks and balances."

When one group can manipulate the Constitution and Bill of Rights...and keep at it eroding it until little is still standing. Who and What ARE WE...as Americans?

[malaise]

38. That's the new talking point

Rollins was pushing it on Blitzer a few minutes ago.

[burning rain]

39. Sounds like a desparate comparison of apples and oranges to me...

Bush, Cheney & Co.'s use of torture, necessarily illegal, vs. what looks to be deplorable but legally permissible caualties among innocent bystanders in the course of going after bad guys.

[LWolf]

40. Repugs can say what they want.

I still say, GO AFTER THEM.

[spanone]

46. bring it on assholes

[Hekate]

47. I think President Obama should not yield to blackmail or kidnap for ransom or any such tactics...

... not even once.

Hekate

[MadMaddie]

48. So the Repugs plan is to attack the military that they have

supposedly cheered on the killing of Iraqi's "Terrorist" :sarcasm: Hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's missing, displaced or dead in a misguided and illegal war.

But they all of a sudden have a problem with our military going after the real Al Quida terrorist in Afghanastan and now flourishing in in the Pakistani region. Their misguided war cost us an 8 year delay in stifling and shutting down Al Quida.

They need to shut the fuck up and let the grownups fix the problems left by the man child.

Oh by the way Joe what really happend to that intern that was found dead in your office?:shrug:

[rhett o rick]

49. We must prosecute torturers, all the torturers. don't matter what Joe or anyone else threatens. nm

[Kablooie]

50. Why are so many stupid, evil people given a public forum nowadays? What happened to intelligent talk

[GeorgeGist]

51. Unfortunately killing of innocent bystanders is considered sane by the warlords.

[Initech]

52. Good luck with proving that, Joe shit for brains.

[Canuckistanian]

53. Them and what army?

Obama controls the DOJ and Dems control the legislative committees.

What could they do, other than send a strongly worded letter?

[pdxmom]

54. So he's saying that if the torture that BushCo engaged in wasn't a war

crime, then evidently, the drone bombings he authorized during HIS term in office were?

Does he really want to go there?

If he thinks that it is a war crime under the Obama administration, then he obviously must believe it was a war crime when Bush was doing it. Why wasn't he up in arms then?

[MasonJar]

55. Stop threatening us , you filthy swine. If Bush/Cheney are guilty, why should

any honest American care if their offenses are exposed and prosecuted? If they are innocent, then that should be proven. If Obama is targeting innocent women and children, that should be exposed. That possibility is remote of course.

[stillcool]

57. sounds good to me...

[SOS]

58. Scarborough is suddenly concerned with the welfare of Afghans?

Why has he been silent for the past seven years?

[laylah]

60. Such pitiful, low-life

lack of substance, poor excuses for human beings. The GOOD news is, when God/dess/Noodly Appendage gets them, there WILL be Hell to pay.

[Vinca]

61. I am so despising the Republicans. During the Clinton years,

they were beside themselves over Whitewater and a blow job. $40,000,000 down the drain investigating a land deal that resulted in NADA. An impeachment hearing because a guy didn't want to fess us to extramarital activity and "lied under oath." Give me a break. They made the Clintons' lives hell from day one over stuff that amounted to nothing.