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Make NO Mistake, Obama Wants Justice Too

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 06:43 AM
Original message
Make NO Mistake, Obama Wants Justice Too
by Mike Kuykendall

A lot of my fellow progressive friends and I have been complaining a lot about some of the positions the Obama administration has been taking lately, especially their apparent lack of a burning desire to prosecute the blatantly criminal conduct of the Bush administration.

But here's the thing- I figured out the politics here. It took me a while, and until I got it I fumed at the new President, thinking my vision of a real progressive in the White House was a pipe dream. I'll clue you guys in- the secret is the mixed message. Let me explain.

First you have Rahm Emmanuel proclaiming loudly on This Week last Sunday that the Obama administration had no intention of pursuing the Bushies for torture legal opinions, etcetera. It was obviously done, on the most authoritative Sunday show now that Russert is gone (in my opinion) and by a wily pol like Rahmbo. That should have gotten my attention, and laid bare the plot then. But it didn't- it took a while.

<skip>

Why? Because they want them prosecuted, they just don't want the blood on their hands. Obama wants to stir up the mob and hand them pitchforks, then stand back and let them go after the perpetrators with violence in their hearts. So to speak.

Anyhow be calm, my liberal and progressive Lefty friends. They know what they are doing at the White House, and subtlety is apparently one of their strong points.



more . . . http://www.opednews.com/articles/Make-NO-Mistake-Obama-Wan-by-Mike-Kuykendall-090423-822.html
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 06:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. I agree with that
The President is a smart man doing good things and we are blessed to have him on our side. :hi:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. I was glad to see this in print
I had been thinking this same thing since last Sunday when Rahm pissed everyone off. :hi:
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ejpoeta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. as it should be. right now he has bigger fish to fry so to speak with the economy.
he can't be seeming to be focusing on going after a former president. but he can make the people demand it. drip drip drip. release memos, people start talking and eventually people will redirect that rage they are now aiming at the banks and direct it towards bush and co. we do not torture. just because you change the definition, doesn't mean you don't do it!! should we try it sometime. you get in trouble for a speeding ticket or stealing something or whatever. just explain YOUR definition and see if it works. do you think it will???
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. I Wish I Could Agree - But I Can't
Under what scenario would the Torquemada gang be prosecuted? I can't think of any that make sense. Since we already have confessions, they won't be able to say that they have new information. Let Spain or another country do the heavy lifting? I can't see us extraditing our former government. Holder "going rogue"? Doubtful.

Our Constitution and our signed international obligations call for that gang to be prosecuted.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 07:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. People said the same thing about Nixon...that he'd never be impeached.
That the Congress would never have "the will."

Turns out, the Congress DID have the will. It just took some time. A lot of time, in fact.

And Nixon was never impeached...but he had to resign, because he knew the game was up.

Rome wasn't built in a day.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Nixon Went Because Republicans Were Smarter then
They knew Nixon was killing them, so they dumped him.

I don't see many in Congress that would impeach Obama or Holder for not enforcing the Constitution.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. They didn't dump him like you dump those leftovers you forgot to clean up last night.
It took for-fucking-ever. Maybe the passage of the years has truncated your memory of the process.

I think people are expecting way too much/too soon out of Obama. He's been in for a hundred lousy days. And most people who pay attention to these things know that the real "pushback" issues don't see daylight until the second term. It's just how it works.
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mediaman007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
5. Not only will the public demand their heads, but the Republican brand
may be damaged beyond repair.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. Now that would be sweet
:)
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
6. Time Will Tell - We Have Few Choices But To Observe If Actions Speak Louder Than Words
eom
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. We'll see, and hopefully in short order
Frankly I think that this whole "Obama as chess player" meme is so much smoke being blown up our ass, but I'm willing to wait and see what happens on this one. If Holder refuses to prosecute, then we'll know that Obama wasn't trying to play chess, but rather that age old political game CYA.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. I don't thing President Obama plays CYA
He is a good honest man and a good honest man has no need to play CYA.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 07:36 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. We'll see,
Frankly I think that Obama should have advocated for investigations up front. Instead he's tap dancing around the topic, and finally, rather than actually leading on the issue, he's tossed the hot potato into his AG's lap. This is not the hallmark of a man with a firm moral compass, but rather the typical actions of a politician trying to resolve two disparate viewpoints, ie CYA.

I would love to be proven wrong, I would love to hear Holder come out and state that he's going after the Bush administration, however I seriously doubt that's going to happen. This will all get swept under the rug, much like Watergate and Iran Contra was, and in twenty, thirty years some alumnus from the Bush administration is going to resurrect the old evil and make our lives a living hell again, much like Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al. did.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. MadHound, I do not want you to be right. I want the others to be right.
As of right now, however, I am still a bit worried that you are right.

I would love for you to be proven wrong too. Because I don't think this country can take more "kicking the can down the road" when it comes to the evil that we saw in the Nixon administration rising again in future administrations when it regains power. It's like a horror movie. You thought the evil personified by Freddy or Jason or Tricky Dick or Darth Cheney was dead? Hah! It was only sleeping...waiting for its chance to return...
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. This is not a hunt that President Obama has a dog in
I don't want it to even remotely look like the President is behind any of this. I want him to be the President and let the judicial branch of our government do their work. Obama is right and is going about this properly, imo
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Of course he has a dog in this hunt, one of meaner and uglier dogs in the pack,
Namely the question of presidential powers. Bushco radically expanded the powers of the Executive branch, and this case is pushback that will shrink those powers. Does Obama want his powers reduced? If so, he'll be unique among presidents who have never given back any powers once they got them.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. I haven't seen any evidence that President Obama feels his 'power'
has been enhanced by gwb and co. President Obama is a constitutional scholar so I doubt that he is seeing any of this through the lenses you seem to be. sorry but I call bull on this
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Perhaps you should check out the whole FISA/warrantless surveillance debate going on
And remember, last year Obama voted for this power to be added to the presidency.
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empyreanisles Donating Member (313 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. Has it occurred to you that Obama simply has other priorities.
...and that he didn't want this shit dumped in his lap. You're pissing me off because you want to make his entire presidency about this bullshit.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. When President Obama swore to uphold the Constitution of the United States, one
of his duties as President, written into the Constitution, is upholding and defending the LAWS of our country. He is Constitutionally obligated to prosecute, to the fullest extent of the law.
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Psychic Consortium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
8. This is 100% correct.
Edited on Sun Apr-26-09 07:16 AM by Psychic Consortium
Obama knows exactly what he is doing.
His plan is proceeding perfectly.
As usual.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. I sure hope you are right.
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Psychic Consortium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. There is no doubt whatsoever.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. My children, Obama does not know what he wants
Edited on Sun Apr-26-09 07:19 AM by originalpckelly
he needs someone to tell him
If only he could see this
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D-Lee Donating Member (457 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
20. YUP let it play out some more -- and it looks like a very SMALL group involved
Edited on Sun Apr-26-09 08:06 AM by D-Lee
It was interesting to me that one former US AG was interviewed and advised that the public debate should continue -- the downside mentioned was that the "usual suspects" would stop talking to the public and new information would dry up.

There is a lot to be said for that position IMHO.

Another interesting thing is that the developing information shows that the "usual suspects" are a pretty small group, especially those involved on the policy level of defining the torture objective and crafting a legal justification.

Letting this play itself out for a while seems to be a very productive course of action ... IMHO, letting public debate and investigation proceed is not a commitment to inaction and a clear choice of direction will emerge.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
25. We have no patience -- and call it "principle"
I can wait to see the bastards in the dock. I want NOTHING to interfere with a complete and thorough investigation. If it means we have to wait a few more months, we wait a few more months. And if it means a few Democrats go down, let 'em go down.

No mistakes. No politicking. No screaming about offended consciences. No moral relativizing and calling it "patriotism".

Not this time.

It's been half a century since Justice has prevailed in America. It's high time the old broad got an appreciative homecoming.

--d!
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
27. I was thinking something very similar
I'm not 100% this is the case but last week I was begging to think this was all a rope a dope.

The Obama administration has been one of the most clever administrations both during the campaign and now that he is in office. They make Clinton and Rove look like chumps when it comes to playing politics.
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