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sammythecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 11:02 AM
Original message
A thank-you note to Andrew Sullivan
He has been relentless in keeping the issue of Americans torturing prisoners in the forefront on his blog. He's been dogging this issue for years. He has at least a couple or more entries everyday concerned with torture and the need to erase this heinous precedent that has been set.

I think, as a new citizen, he's acutely aware of the distinctions that make America different from many other nations. A rule of law that guarantees humane and ethical treatment of prisoners being a big one. It goes right to the heart of what being an American is all about. He knows this and I'm grateful for his determined effort to do what he can to keep a light shining on this disgraceful mess that needs to be cleaned up.

A side note: I'm not endorsing every view Sullivan has, I'm just publicly acknowledging his tireless work on this issue. I'm also aware we have other desperate issues in this country. The problems of the economy and health care have affected me directly in a very negative way. Just as it has many millions of Americans. These issues are critical for me, but so is torture. Torture affects EVERY American, whether they know it or not.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. He's not all that new a citizen. And he was foresquare WITH Bush before he was against him.
One of Bush's biggest war cheerleaders, at the outset, he was, and for the longest time while Bush was riding high.

Andrew Sullivan knows what way the wind blows. No need to thank him for being a craven opportunist, really.
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sammythecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. OK
He's a hell of lot newer than you, me, and most other citizens, a hundred million of which don't even bother to vote.

I tried in my side note to avoid discussion of ever other stance he takes or took. I'm only talking about his efforts on the issue of torture. His blog is widely read and he keeps the issue of torture accountability at the forefront, constantly. I'm grateful he does that.

Right away I'm responding to a different issue. Yes, he was wrong about the Iraq war, horribly wrong, but that has nothing to do with holding those responsible for torture accountable.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. All I am saying is this--don't be surprised if he flips like a pancake if the wind shifts.
He has no moral center. He's an opportunist. Don't make any "emotional investment" in his opinions. He just may disappoint you.

In short--he lies. He makes shit up. He drifts on the breeze of fame and opportunity.

And one of the reasons he likes the US so much is because we're conned by an accent, many of us, which allows him to make money bloviating, and because the tax structure is way more friendly to him than his country of birth's Inland Revenue scheme is.

Arianna Huffington did the very same thing. Married a (closeted gay) influential rightwinger, became a well-known gadfly borne up on the backs of those vicious haters, and then, when her husband stepped out of the closet and doors started closing in her face ("You're not stealing MAH husband, honey!"), she "flipped" and became the gadfly of the left. One thing she never lost sight of? OPPORTUNITY.

Never underestimate the propensity for Americans to think that an unfamiliar or unique accent means that the speaker is somehow an oracle, and smarter than they actually are. It's why East Enders sell us shit on late-night infomercials.
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sammythecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I appreciate your response and your advice
Seriously, no sarcasm intended.

You may very well be right in your analysis of Sullivan. He's been talking about torture for years now, and I'd be very disappointed if it turned out to be just cynical opportunism, time will tell. Nevertheless, thus far I think he has been a valuable ally to those wanting to see this torture business resolved in the right way. And I say that while being completely aware of his disgraceful and stupid cheerleading of Bush and the invasion of Iraq. The invasion of Iraq was as un-American in the same way that torture is, in my opinion.

I understand your comments about the seductiveness of an accent. Even while disagreeing with almost everything they say, or said, I love to listen to Christopher Hitchens or William F. Buckley. However, I can say that I find Sullivan to be a more effective writer than speaker.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. If others can use his arguments, more power to him. However, if he
was shown a tape that convinced him, conclusively, that torture prevented the destruction of the Bourne or Sagamore Bridges that span the Cape Cod Canal by revealing the location of the explosives under those structures, he'd be rah-rahing for torture (because that's the way he gets to his vacation house, see?) like Trent Lott in his cheerleading days.

I always wondered if he was a "payroll" guy, like Armstrong Williams (who touted NCLB for Bush and was paid under the table for it, and got caught). He was very strong for Bush, even when people commented on his silly blog and said "Man, how far up your ass IS that big head of yours?"...until one day, he flipped. It was like the spigot got turned off, the gravy train went off the tracks. The "schtick" of being the HIV positive gay guy who just loved Bush wasn't working for him anymore. I always wondered if the money dried up.

He also used to think, if he just wished hard enough, that the Pope would one day love him, too, and accept the gay community into the Catholic Church like little lost lambs with no muss or fuss. We know how absurd that hope is in the last few decades, anyway. That was one Pope ago that I read all of his "If I'm a good boy they'll surely love me" stuff. Dunno how he feels about this latest guy (if he's still wishing and hoping, he's an idiot), I got tired of following his stuff because it was the same old whinging crap every day.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Amen. I will never forget his crap about liberals forming a fifth column
and all that.

He's no better than Roy Cohn, and I hate how he has become some sort of icon on DU.
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sammythecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. "and all that",
precisely what my post was NOT about.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Some of us have been familiar with Mr. Sullivan for more than a month or two. n/t
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sammythecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I'm familiar with him since he was with The New Republic
I've been regularly checking his blog for the past 7 or 8 years.

Please try to understand something here. The subject of my post was very narrowly focused. I pointed out that fact in the last paragraph of the OP, and twice more after that. Words are important. Especially here where they are the only means we have to communicate. I try to choose them carefully so I will be understood and not have to waste time and energy trying to re-explain myself, just like I'm doing here with you.

And it's nice to know that you and some others have been familiar with Mr. Sullivan for more than a month or two. Good.

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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. He's got a LOT to answer for. I appreciate your skepticism. nt
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sammythecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Is that a truthful statement or sarcasm?
If it's snark resulting from poor reading comprehension, let me repeat myself, I said: "A side note: I'm not endorsing every view Sullivan has, I'm just publicly acknowledging his tireless work on this issue."

Is that not plain enough?
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Um, it was sincere. So, back off. nt
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sammythecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. WTF?
Back off? Back off from a snarky comment from someone who either failed to understand or read what I said? Sorry, but it's you who should back UP and try to understand what you're reading before launching an insult.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. Despite his obsession with...
zomgislamofascismwereallgonnadie, Sully has been EXCELLENT on the torture stuff.
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sammythecat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Thank you for responding
to the one, and only, thing my post was about. It's really appreciated. As are most things considered rare.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yeah, he was relentless in kissing and sucking Shrub's privates. But
sorry to butt into this thread.
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