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It doesn't matter if they have an (R) or (D) behind their names...

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 02:59 PM
Original message
It doesn't matter if they have an (R) or (D) behind their names...
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/04/24/democrats/

<snip>
Bush-defending opponents of investigations and prosecutions think they've discovered a trump card: the claim that Democratic leaders such as Nancy Pelosi, Jay Rockefeller and Jane Harman were briefed on the torture programs and assented to them. The core assumption here -- shared by most establishment pundits -- is that the call for criminal investigations is nothing more than a partisan-driven desire to harm Republicans and Bush officials ("retribution"), and if they can show that some Democratic officials might be swept up in the inquiry, then, they assume, that will motivate investigation proponents to think twice.

Those who make that argument are clearly projecting. They view everything in partisan and political terms -- it's why virtually all media discussions are about what David Gregory calls "the politics of the torture debate" rather than the substantive issues surrounding these serious crimes -- and they are thus incapable of understanding that not everyone is burdened by the same sad affliction that plagues them.

<snip>

The reality is exactly the opposite (as usual) of what is being depicted in our media discussions. The call for criminal investigations of torture and other forms of government criminality is the most apolitical and non-partisan argument one can make. The ones who are trying to politicize the justice system and exploit the rule of law for partisan gain are those who are arguing against criminal investigations. John Cole explained this point perfectly yesterday:

At some point they are going to figure out that for most of us, we dont care if the person has a (R) or (D) behind their name when they were instituting a policy of torture. That is what is so depressing (to me, at least) about the Ari Fleischers and the Thiessens of the world. They honestly seem to think this is nothing more than a partisan witch-hunt, the same old Washington gotcha politics. It isnt. When you torture people, you have crossed a really clear line. Innocent people are dead. Lives have been ruined. Our international reputation has been destroyed. Yes, the Bush administration will get most of the blame, but that is because they were in charge and they did this, not because of what party they happen to belong to. If Jane Harman and Nancy Pelosi knew about this and okd it, they are just as culpable.


....more
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lostnotforgotten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Another Fine Example Of Why Many Of Us Are Now Progressive Independents
eom
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. You got that right.
Pelosi leaves me cold. Same with Reid.

Feinstein gives me the creeps.

Et cetera.
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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. He's right! We don't need those kinds in the government...
from either party. Investigate, Indict, Incarcerate.
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ProgressIn2008 Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. Strongly agree - it can't be any other way. Justice be done, R or D, couldn't care less. nt
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. The pundits don't want to mention it but the last two national elections
have basically been "Throw the bums out"

People are sick of DC and its doings.

It doesn't matter to me what letter comes after their name. Hell most of OUR people are really my favorites anyway.
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Delzars Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. Administration Officials all the way down to actual interrogators have ZERO legal cover.
The United States is a signature party to the following international law: The UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.

Part 1, Article 2.2 & 2.3

2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat of war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification for torture.

3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.

ARTICLE 4.1

1. Each State Party shall ensure that all acts of torture are offences under its criminal law. The same shall apply to an attempt to commit torture and to an act by any person which constitutes complicity or participation in torture.

2. Each State Party shall make these offences punishible by appropriate penalties which take into account their grave nature.

ARTICLE 10.1 & 2

1. Each State Party shall ensure that education and information regarding the prohibition against torture are fully included in the training of law enforcement personnel, civil or military, medical personnel, public officials and other persons who may be involved in the custody, interrogation or treatment of any individual subjected to any form of arrest, detention or imprisonment.

2. Each State Party shall include this prohibition in the rules or instructions issued in regard to the duties and functions of any such person.


Listen to the dozens and dozens of excuses. Have you heard even ONE that is exempted from the above international law? If so, please post it.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Hello, Delzars.
Welcome to DU! :hi:
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-26-09 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. Even more reason to hold them accountable if...
they have a (D) by their name. The (R)'s may tolerate it but we will not.
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