A Question That Needs To Be Asked Again & Again - Are Our Representatives Being BLACKMAILED?

[Vinnie From Indy]

Did Bush/Cheney/Rove use the awesome powers of the NSA to target key Democrat and Republican lawmakers for eavesdropping for the sole purpose of gathering information to be used to blackmail and control them? Are they still using that information to control representatives of our government?

Harry Reid
Ben Nelson
Evan Bayh
Diane Feinstein
Nancy Pelosi
Lee Hamilton (always the 1st Dem picked by BushCo to lead investigations into allegations of BushCo crimes)
?

[datasuspect]

1. they are probably complicit

lots of strange bedfellows during the bush regime.

[valerief]

2. We'll never know who are blackmailed and who are complicit. nt

[stillcool]

3. Oh the wicked web we weave..

when we practice to deceive.

[Ghost in the Machine]

4. Without a doubt... with the exception of Lee Hamilton

Months after the commission had officially issued its report and ceased its functions, Chairman Kean and other commissioners toured the country to draw attention to the recommendations of the commission for reducing the terror risk, claiming that some of their recommendations were being ignored. Co-chairs Kean and Hamilton wrote a book about the constraints they faced as commissioners titled Without Precedent: The Inside Story of the 9/11 Commission.

The book was released on August 15, 2006 and chronicles the work of Kean (Commission Chairman) and Hamilton (Commission Vice-Chairman) of the 9/11 Commission, which some consider one of the most important independent government commissions in American political history.

In the book, Kean and Hamilton charge that the 9/11 Commission was "set up to fail," and write that the commission was so frustrated with repeated misstatements by officials from The Pentagon and the Federal Aviation Administration during the investigation that it considered a separate investigation into possible obstruction of justice by Pentagon and FAA officials.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/911_Commission#Work_of_commissioners_after_the_commission_ceased_its_functions

I think John Conyers needs to be added to your list, too... he's turned into such a joke since the Dems took control...

Peace,

Ghost

[Democracyinkind]

20. I'll second that. There was a distinct turn with Conyers that I also perceived.

[rampart]

28. anthrax letters as extortion

the "conservatives" program was ready for passage.

[Fireweed247]

5. I am sure some were/are

Some were Republican plants to begin with and the rest I am sure they have attempted to blackmail. It is the only explanation for Bushco getting away with what they did.

It is also possible that they set people up to do something illegal or immoral so they would have something to blackmail them with. Remember the Jeff Gannon parties? I wonder how many pictures were taken at that.

And people like Kucinich who they could not corrupt, they could easily drug with the date rape drug and set him up with a young child or whatnot, take a picture...then they got him too.

[jody]

6. Blackmail is for the Mafia, Corporatists use Bribery in the form of campaign donations. n/t

[Fireweed247]

11. These people are the Mob

n/t

[Political Heretic]

19. Corporatists actually use both. See: The Best Democracy Money Can Buy and The Corporation

[cascadiance]

29. Mafia also has "turf wars", and that appears to be what's involved with Harman corruption case...

Harman's discovering that unless you do "total" allegiance to da boss, then there might be some "turf battles" that will threaten you. From the sounds of it she got caught in the middle as a willing participant with those wanting to facilitate their agenda legitimizing torture (which she spoke against and got the likes of Goss, etc. riled up) vs. massive wiretapping of Americans without impunity (which she was instrumental in helping Bushco, and Gonzalez implement and cover up).

If she wanted to go down that path, she probably needed to sell herself out for torture too, or never jumped on either of those neocon/corporatist bandwagons. But being power-hungry and greedy like she is, she couldn't resist.

You can't have it half way Jane. And that's why you're going to be amongst the first pushed out in our war to take back Amerika to once again be America for the people!

[Individualist]

7. Know your DLC

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5396391

"The Democratic Leadership Council's agenda is indistinguishable from the Republican Neoconservative agenda" Dennis Kucinich

[Greyhound]

31. What's the difference between the republiks and the DLC?

13 letters.

[grasswire]

8. you mustn't forget the "opinion leaders" --

...the key pundits and news folks. All it takes is a Mercedes or a job promise or some kind of sweetheart deal to "buy" favor with opinion leaders and news shapers. Richard Mellon Scaife made it happen during the long, bitter coup attempt against Bill Clinton. It cost him some millions, but Clinton was hogtied by the VRWC.

[tblue37]

32. Turning Tim Russert from a liberal Dem into a RW shill was one of the

main triumphs GE's Jack Welch always liked to brag about.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Yes, next

[cali]

10. No. It's much more likely to represent institutional behavior.

[pat_k]

12. And what if they are? They took the same oath. . .

. . .as the men and women in our armed services. We expect them to risk death on the battlefield to fulfill their oath to "support and defend." Why would we expect less of our elected officials.

A legitimate fear of death may exempt them from prosecution for dereliction under international law, but it does not exempt them from their oath-bound duty to the nation.

[Individualist]

15. Exactly!

If anyone were being blackmailed and allowed that to interfere with doing his/her duty, then he/she should resign!

Some cling to the blackmail excuse because they refuse to accept the idea that some (DLC) Democrats are complicit.

[pat_k]

23. I find it difficult to understand how...

...anyone would find comfort in the "blackmail theory." Under that theory, one must believe that every Democrat who supported Pelosi's "off the table" edict (and that includes http://talkingimpeachment.com/blog/Hall-of-Shame-Inductee----Barak-Obama.html">Obama) was engaged in a calculated effort to spread anti-impeachment propaganda. That they abused their power keep impeachment "off the table" for personal gain (to avoid "scandal" and maintain power) with full knowledge of the devastating consequences.

Not very comforting. The chance of successfully motivating such people to act is nil because they are lying to hide their reason for inaction.

On the other hand, if we take them at their word -- assume they actually buy the irrational rationalizations they peddle -- our job is pretty clear. Challenge the immoral and asinine statements. Contradict the memes and bogus excuses.

While it may be no more valid than the blackmail theory, my working theory is that their dereliction and irrational rationalizations are driven by "http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=5447507#5448828">group think." This does not relieve them of responsibility, but when otherwise rational people behave irrationally, there's often some social or psychological force at work.

The insular world of the beltway, where members of the "group" view themselves as "special" people with "special" knowledge not shared by those "outside," has all the earmarks of the type of closed system easily begets a "created reality" based on erroneous, but unquestioned assumptions -- a "reality" in which shared "special knowledge" enables them to dismiss "outsiders" who challenge their irrational beliefs and acts.

I find this view far more palatable, and I believe more productive, than the view that they are simply corrupt. Group think is powerful, but not insurmountable. It can be treated. And it is the belief in a "cure" that keeps the challengers challenging Obama do what duty demands and tell the nation:

"the law mandates prosecution of those who issued the orders, and those saw to it the orders were carried out, and those who carried out the orders. It is for the courts, not me, to determine whether the defense offered by the perpetrators has merit."

Contrary to what the "true believers" who pin the label "Obama-haters" on the challengers may believe, the challengers are challenging because they believe in Obama. They believe they can Reach Him.

The outrage and refusal to tolerate his self-destructive dereliction isn't hate -- it's "tough love."

[Nothing Without Hope]

13. I have always believed this was the real reason for the illegal wiretapping program

It's one of the many reasons it is illegal. Blackmail is one of the traditional ways to control a public figure. It works.

[glinda]

22. I always believed that this was the reason for the WTT hit. They were too focused

on all the crap they could set up to keep control of power. They only had one focus and put all their time and energy into that.

[Nothing Without Hope]

24. Whatever happened in the WTT hit, they were responsible. Either they

weren't watching due to misplaced focus, were watching and deliberately let it happen to further their goals, or (my own opinion) they planned it as a "New Pearl Harbor" to get the war and the powers they wanted.

[arikara]

14. I heard somewhere that

they buy off some, blackmail others, threaten the lives and / or families of others. The ones they can't buy, threaten or blackmail they Wellstone or McKinney.

[KittyWampus]

16. If they are all blackmailed, why didn't Pelosi give Harman the Chairmanship?

[starroute]

17. In the old days, is was more often sexual entrapment

You can google on Tongsun Park and the George Town Club for what was going on in the 70's. These days, though, I suspect it's predominantly financial blackmail, because electronic surveillance and data mining are a heck of a lot easier than messing around with hidden cameras.

But I have no doubt in the world that anyone in a leadership position in Congress has a wide variety of interested parties compiling long dossiers on their peccadilloes.

[Democracyinkind]

21. Agreed. But considering Spitzer I'd say the old sex thing still sells.

[starroute]

27. Even Spitzer got caught through the financial angle

I don't doubt there's still sexual blackmail out there -- which is why I said "predominantly." But I do believe it's far more cost-effective these days to find dirt on people by snooping into their bank accounts and personal phone calls than by setting up the kind of old-fashioned private clubs with concealed cameras.

[Political Heretic]

18. I think this has been a very important question and I think its almost certain.

Think about it... why wouldn't they do this? They obviously didn't give a damn ab out the law, so they would have to be idiots not to try and get something on Dems.

[onenote]

25. if they have something on these folks, why not use it to defeat them and get repubs elected

If the repubs had dirt on a host of Democrats, why wouldn't they have unleashed it in 2006 or 2008 in order to damage the Democratic brand and prevent the Democrats from regaining and then building on majorities in both houses?

[Festivito]

26. Make like there are two parties. And note they'd use family members.

They don't want things to change, just have enough to keep the control running.

Two NAMED parties -- not the two top vote-getters.

And they have used family member threats on the open House floor, saying a Michigan candidates son would face political opposition if the father's vote wasn't right.

Hersch says the tapes not released yet show son's being sodomized so that the father would talk, hopefully, for them, that he'd lie about a connection between Saddam and 9/11.

How far would these same people go in getting our politicians to lie for them.

[chill_wind]

30. The timing of the Harman story-- why just now?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5543084