Egypt Orders All Pigs in Country Destroyed

[NeedleCast]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090429/ap_on_he_me/ml_egypt_swine_flu

Egypt will be killing all 300,000 pigs in the country because of swine flu scare.


But yeah, no one is over-reacting...

[LeftyMom]

1. It's a Muslim country. They were probably looking for an excuse.

:shrug:

[NeedleCast]

2. Maybe, but there's as much as a 10% Christain/other minority

that eats pork.

[LeftyMom]

6. They don't run the government.

:shrug:

[Freddie Stubbs]

15. But the governing party is secular

[LeftyMom]

19. All of the legal parties are secular, religious parties are banned.

Nonetheless, the devout are a voting bloc and appealing to them is a useful strategy.

[dipsydoodle]

3. Sound a bit extreme

:shrug:

[CJCRANE]

4. Remember Mad Cow Disease?

How many cows were culled?

[dysfunctional press]

7. swine flu and mad cow are two totally different ...animals.

pigs are not going to cause swine flu to enter the food chain.

[truebrit71]

43. With Mad Cow the infected animal could pass it to humans when consumed..NOT the case with 'swine'..

...flu...

[CJCRANE]

44. OK, maybe it was Foot and Mouth disease that I was thinking of n/t

[FedUpWithIt All]

18. It is but there are other factors influencing them...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5559312&mesg_id=5559451

[itsrobert]

5. Look what the Panicbots did

Now 300,000 pigs will be slaughtered. For what? Because of all the people spreading fear and panic via the internet.

[eShirl]

8. they want the populace to think they're being proactive

[NeedleCast]

9. Yeah, that's probably true

Doesn't really matter that destroying the pigs is not a proactive solution to a virus that spreads via human contact now.

[JVS]

10. Does this mean that a tidal wave of inexpensive imported pork will be crossing the Mediterranean?

[NeedleCast]

One can hope

However, it looks like my desire for cheap bbq pork ribs is being thwarted by some pig farmers:

"The move immediately provoked resistance from pig farmers. At one large pig farming center just north of Cairo, farmers refused to cooperate with Health Ministry workers who came to slaughter the animals and the workers left without carrying out the government order."

Silly people showing sanity in the face of government approved panic.

[tjwash]

11. In America, I would be more worried about the fruits and veggies than pork products.

Since most of the fruits and vegetables are picked by migrant labor, and most of the migrant labor comes from Mexico.

[Iggo]

24. Goddam Mexicans!!!!!

:sarcasm:

[csziggy]

45. One of the science wonk talking heads yesterday said the virus can only last

24-48 hours outside a host. So any virus that got onto fruits and vegetables would be dead by the time it was shipped to US markets, even if it were picked in the US.

Produce sold at farmers' markets and buying direct from the farms could be a problem, but that is such a small percentage of the overall picture, it is barely worth considering from a public health standpoint.

[seemslikeadream]

12. Who knew Egyptians are reading DU?

[msongs]

13. good thing it's not called the "female human being flu" eh? nt

[DS1]

14. New McRib Special Edition coming in 2 weeks!

[Rebubula]

17. LOLZ...

...as much as I know that it is processed meat (who knows if it is even pork?) and is very unhealthy....

I Love those Mc Rib sannis...Mmmmm...pickles, BBQ sauce, onions and some pressed meat thingy...Heaven

[FedUpWithIt All]

16. I agree that this is an extreme reaction.

I understand WHY they are having an extreme reaction though.

They have been pretty ground zero for the H5N1 virus. The way the have been fighting to keep that flu in check is by killing all infected birds.

We KNOW that swine can be mixing vessels and Egypt has been really battling avian flu this month. I suspect they are VERY concerned about both viruses finding each other. :scared: It is a reasonable fear considering...

There have been 67 cases of avian flu in Egypt since 2006. There have been 25 deaths.

12 of those cases have only been announced by WHO since early March. Of those 12 cases, at least 3 have died in a single week (as of April 24).

http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSTRE53K5TG20090424?feedType=RSS&feedName=scienceNews

http://www.who.int/csr/don/archive/country/egy/en/

[NeedleCast]

20. It's really not a reasonable fear

Unless you're willing to stretch reasonable a long, long way. Especially considering the fact that there are currently zero known cases of swine flu in Egypt.

Sixty-seven cases of avian flu in two and a quarter years, 25 deaths in two and a quarter years. These just aren't very high numbers, even in a country with the population of Egypt. I guess maybe it sounds scary until you put those numbers in prespective. Egypt has a population of 80.3 million as of 2007. Statistically, your chance of dying of avian flu in Egypt is so close to zero that it might as well be zero.

[FedUpWithIt All]

23. In a virus that is not human to human those numbers are devastating.

Apparently your understanding of re assortment is limited. It has been explained many times. A genetic shift in a virus like H5N1 (making it human to human) would be catastrophic. The fatality rate is unheard of.

Do you REALLY think that no measures should be taken to prevent this re assortment? You realize that once you get your scary numbers IT IS TOO LATE.

Really there is nothing to say to somebody who tries to discuss with only part of the available facts.

I already said i think the REACTION is extreme. I suspect your ideas of fear would be slightly different if the news was coming from your neighborhood.

Edited to add...H5N1 has been tested positive in flies. H1N1 is suspected in flies as well.

H1N1 is already made up of an assortment of different strains. One of which is Avian. It has already "mated" several times and is clearly not shy about doing so.

Have you seen the rate of expansion of H1N1. How long do you really think it will take to cross into Egypt.

I cannot wait for another "my IQ is higher than yours" DU thread.
:eyes:

Have a nice day.

[NeedleCast]

27. This argument again?

Yeah, I've heard it. If it were in my neighborhood blah blah. Considering the apparently low transmission rate, I'd probably go about my business as usual. I might avoid taking the DC metro during rush hour. Maybe.

Next you'll be telling me that I hate brown people because I'm not showing a proper amount of empathy towards people who die of flu.

Nowhere in my posts have I suggested that no measure be taken to prevent reassortment but I am strongly against this sort of over-reaction...and you are too apparently. Its the difference between "lets all wash our hands regularly with warm, soapy water" and "lets wipe out entire stock of feed animals because we're scared" (and not take into account what the destruction of an entire industry has on jobs, economy, etc).

This is a typical reaction of paniced people making bad decisions. As a poster above suggested, it might be motivated by religious elements within the government. No matter what, its like using a howitzer to hunt rabbits.

[FedUpWithIt All]

36. "It's really not a reasonable fear" THIS is what i have issue with. n/t

[NeedleCast]

38. I guess that depends on what constitutes a reasonable fear for you

Twenty-five deaths from avian flu which is not transmitting via human-to-human contact in a popluation base of 80 million is not something that would worry me. It wouldn't even worry me if I were a chicken farmer beyond taking standard precautions. It seems so very illogical and barks of panic to me. There are so many things more likely to kill me than a flu virus that it's not something that even enters my mind...so yeah, I consider it an unreasonable fear.

Its like people who won't get on a plane because they're scared to fly but who put 15,000 miles a year on a car despite the fact that, per capita, their chance of dying in a plane crash is far, far lower than dying in a car crash.

And it's that sort of unreasonable fear that causes people to make poor decisions...like wiping out an entire population of animals. It's a reaction that has no tangible benefit and makes no sense...and it's being done because some government person or body is all spun up in a frenzy going "OMG, WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW!"

[RaleighNCDUer]

40. It is a matter of percentages.

Certainly, a person is likelier to die in a car crash than in a plane crash; but on a one-to-one basis, if you are IN a plane crash you are far likelier to die than if you are IN a car crash. I have walked away from I don't know how many car crashes - from all out catastrophe to bumper bump - but I would have little expectation of walking away from even a single plane crash.

Same with the flu. You are far less likely to die of avian flu than many other, almost ANY other cause. BUT, if you DID come down with H5N1, your chance of dying within a week jumps up tremendously as it has a 60-75% mortality rate. That's up there in Ebola kill rates (something else you probably won't die from UNLESS you catch it, in which case you probably WILL).

Get it?

[FourScore]

41. According to your logic...

When Obama says that all the schools might need to be closed, this is his overreaction.

When he sets aside 1.5 billion dollars to deal with the swine flu (after only 11 cases are confirmed), this is his overreaction.

When the WHO (an organization that works at an agonizingly slow, glacial pace) declares that containment is no longer possible when only 44 cases have been confirmed in the US, that is an overreaction.

I don't think so.

Killing off all the pigs IS an overreaction. Period. Nevertheless, I do agree with FedUp that this may have to do with their avian flu problem, which is quite significant. One has to look at the whole picture.

I might add, there is also something called an UNDERREACTION. This is what occured in New Orleans after Katrina. No one wants something so horrible to happen again, yet if this flu turns into the kind of pandemic that it has the potential to be, then large sections of the US (and other parts of the world) could look just like that.

NeedleCast, you have been so vehemently opposed to the deep concern that some of us share about this virus. I don't get it. If anything, it shows extreme ignorance on your part about the history of pandemics and the new challenges facing our world today if there should be another devastating pandemic like occered with the plague or in 1918-1919. In other words, your reaction is also extreme,it's just the on the opposite end of the measuring stick from what is going on in Egypt.

You might want to educate yourself on this topic a little better.

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. Avian flu has almost zero transmissibility from person to person.

Swine flu has a high transmissibility. Should avian flu and swine flu recombine - as flu is wont to do - then we could see a flu with 60% mortality combining with high transmissibility. It would make the black death look like a summer cold.

I think the slaughter of swine is an over-reaction - but then, maybe they know something they aren't telling us.

[NeedleCast]

32. I have no argument against "what if" scenarios

Lets wipe out all pigs and chickens. Just in case.

I'm not saying there should be no precautions taken but if we're going to take extreme measures to prevent worst case scenarios from happening we're pretty much going to have to wipe out life on the planet.

[FedUpWithIt All]

35. ...

:hug:

There are over 33 MILLION kids out of school in Mexico. Egypt is planning to kill the entire nation of swine. Nations are refusing entry....

Little bit of logical thought goes a long way.

These things are not being done because world leaders are getting a bit worked up over a report of 7 deaths from Mexico. Seriously...

[Rebubula]

21. I am weeping...

...over the loss of sweet, sweet bacon.

[truebrit71]

22. You and me both...

...what a waste...

[Sigh Sister]

25. What in the world would this accomplish?

The virus is already being transmitted person to person. Pigs don't have a lot to do with it anymore.

[FedUpWithIt All]

26. Egypt has been dealing with increased cases of avian flu lately.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5559312&mesg_id=5559451

[Sigh Sister]

29. Thanks again

Didn't read entire thread before posting!

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. It is a potential vector for re-infection - avian flu is now endemic in

Egypt, but it doesn't transmit person to person. Should a highly transmissable swine flu recombine with the extraordinarily lethal avian flu, the results could be devastating.

[Sigh Sister]

33. Thanks. I get it now. n/t

[rcrush]

31. Time to invest in pork futures and BBQ Sauce?

[life_long_dem]

34. They can feed all of the starving people there.

[DainBramaged]

37. Pork, the one you love

I had Taylor ham and eggs for breakfast, yummy, and I don't feel ill at all.

[ensho]

39. well, killing all those pigs will free up a lot of water

and all that pig manure won't pollute.

hoping they will be killed humanly.

[malaise]

42. Jah

Rastafari!! :rofl:

[demokatgurrl]

46. OK, this is just ridiculous

just how many pigs are there, anyway?