Why Are People Opposed to the Swine Flu Story Being Reported?

[tekisui]

Each time a new flu arises and spreads from person to person, we are given an opportunity to learn. When the story broke, no one knew what the ramifications would be. The potential was, and still is, quite serious. Each run through a new virus spreading we get, the better prepared we will be to respond to the inevitable big one.

It seems that we dodged a bullet on this one, but it will be back, mutated in the future. It could be a year or ten years. It is important to understand the how/why/who of pandemics.

Why such opposition to it?

And, there is a difference between following the story, trying to understand what has happened and where it is going and decrying it as the end of humanity. Or that we are all going to die of pork flu(which I haven't seen).

People should understand the seriousness of pandemics, a minor one like this one is invaluable to that understanding.

[seemslikeadream]

1. People think too much information is bad

It scares them

[BadgerKid]

31. It's more complicated than that, dontcha think?

[phantom power]

2. This outbreak is by no means over.

We have sustained human to human transmission and infections in multiple countries. WHO is expected to raise its pandemic level from 4 to 5 today.

Just sayin.

[tekisui]

5. I realize that, but the death rate and spread rate haven't been as

serious anywhere except in Mexico. Time will tell if that holds. My wonder is what will happen when it reaches other third world countries with similar conditions as Mexico.

[phantom power]

7. I think it will take another week or so...

to see what's going on in the US and other countries. So far, it does not appear to be spreading like wildfire, at least.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. The initial death rates from 1918 were also low

when the second wave came it was deadly

That is the other reason why I expect this to go to level six to be frank, and stay there for a while

(I am sorry if information scares you, and you need to belittle it, tm)

And thanks by the way for the addition

[JonLP24]

18. It was overblown in Mexico, instead of 152 deaths it was only 7

http://www.smh.com.au/world/only-7-swine-flu-deaths-not-152-says-who-20090429-aml1.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Wrong, CONFIRMED, as in LAB CONFIRMED 7 deaths

but there are still 152 (actually more by now in the 160s territory) that are suspected of being swine flu

Suspected is different from lab confirmed

Wanna bet we will not have all our cases lab confirmed by the time this fully unfolds in the US?

[JonLP24]

27. Some news stations were running wild with the 152 number

Everyone has been refering to the WHO for information, this refers to it and debunks the 152 deaths and only confirmed 7. If you want to talk about speculation and suspicions you lose me there. I'll wait for confirmation before I start running wild with little or no evidence.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Ok teaching moment

in any epydemic disease situation the only way to KNOW for sure what it is you need to lab test it

The lab is expensive

They went ONLY 20 samples to the L-5 Manitoba Lab when this started. They all came back positive

On the advise of the WHO they were sent to CDC for repeat test, and only seven came up positive,

The test is so expensive that US Counties have a limit of 4 tests at CDC per county,

This means we can get only a DEFINITE 4 positive lab cases per county, The reason is the cost and how time intensive these molecular tests are

So given that San Diego County for example, has had over eight cases, that means the rest are presumptive

This is the way this works

This is not speculation.

Now I will speculate that WHO is sending those samples to Stockholm, the other L-5 facility for this advanced molecular testing

So if you get Influenza Type A, which is a very easy test, right now they wlll put you in the pressumptive category

H1N1 is a type of Type A influenza

[JonLP24]

40. What I do know is 7 is confirmed in Mexico

I'm not going to claim 152 deaths because it hasn't been confirmed. It could be for a number of reasons. If we don't know the 152 number is swine flu then we don't know. Whatever you want to think about it that is fine by me. Me, however, I will not claim to know something I don't know.

[Mojorabbit]

41. All of them will not be confirmed

by WHO. This has been the case for the bird flu that I have been following closely for the past five years. Specimens will degrade in shipping, relatives of positive cases that die with symptoms are not tested or test locally and samples are not sent to WHO for confirmation but are declared positive in country. The WHO numbers will only show a part of the picture.

[Hannah Bell]

82. If I understood correctly, they have full ability to test on the spot in place now.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. I worked in the field of emergencies for ten years

I know HOW THIS WORKS

Also if you read the releases they have been saying umpty squat number confirmed rest presumptive

They have not been trying to lie to you

Which is the sub text here

By the way, that also means the 95 or so cases we have in the states are NOT all confirmed... and a few are presumptive

This is the way it works

[JonLP24]

44. That's fine

It's not going to scare me any more then it does now which is 0 on a scale of 1-10. I just turned to all 3 of the major news networks and they are all talking about swine flu at the same time. Big surprise there.

All I did was post a link which seemed accurate and I did it because everyone else referenced the WHO so I thought it was valid source. Sorry about that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Well the WHO raising the level to 5 is not a news item

:sarcasm:

Now being INFORMED is different from being scared

[JonLP24]

49. LOL I've heard that ALL morning

I'm watching Sportscenter because I'm sick of hearing it repeated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. So they held the news-conference all morning? WHO KNEW

They have been also doing quite a bit of 100 day shtick all day

Just because this is a real news story does not mean you need to accept it

[JonLP24]

54. I didn't say news conference

I said raising the terror alert or whatever they call it all day. The fact was there before any news conference. There are issues such as homelessness(many homeless do have jobs) poverty and other things that I consider real news that I never see reported. Just because people don't want to accept it or are just tired of hearing about it constantly doesn't mean you have to be bothered by it.

[Hannah Bell]

78. there's are good reasons for quoting the confirmed numbers, the "experienced" panic-mongers seem to

have skipped that lesson in their training.

you'd think they were hyping their stock portfolio or something.

and making $$$ on the bounces.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Because they want to stop the coming apocalypse and prevent the rapture.

Don't worry. The unbelievers will roast in hell when the time comes.

[eShirl]

4. fear + denial?

hell if I know

[K Gardner]

6. What I'm opposed to is the freaking hysteria created by the MSM. It is patently absurd.

[tekisui]

8. I can't speak to that, I don't have teh cables.

It seems to me that many have carried their anger at the M$M coverage to DUers trying to pass on good information.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. And I have the cables

they have been covering things like currently the DHS secretary having a presser, and every day the pressers from appropriate individuals

You are right, people are angry at the MSM... the accusation that MSM is flu now and all the time is not only wrong, but wrong headed

Hell, can they shut up over the 100 days already?

And yesterday it was Specter now and all the time. Monday we had plenty of TORTURE, but you'd never know it if you listened to people who are saying it is the flu channel

Media is doing what media does in disaster mode, and the best comparison is Katrina, where they gave out INFORMATION.. which is actually refreshing

[FedUpWithIt All]

32. Yeah. No TV here either. n/t

[uppityperson]

13. I rarely watch tv news, finally did last night and I agree

Good grief. OMG OMG OMOMG OGGMOGMOGMOGMGOMGOGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think it is very interesting, watching this develop and seeing how WHO and local/state/country/world public health people are monitoring this. Very interesting.

[kestrel91316]

47. I'm opposed to the obsessive questions about getting swine flu from pork.

How stupid do people have to be to think flu of any kind comes from meat from healthy animals?

[krabigirl]

61. About as stupid as the moms in my "playgroup" avoiding all parks full of nannies.

[kestrel91316]

62. That's not just stupid, it's racist. Of course, only brown people get swine flu, right?

[alphafemale]

69. I had someone at work ask me that....

I was almost tempted to tell her to bring me all her bacon because I had a safe way to dispose of it.

[glitch]

75. Lol! You should have! nt

[krabigirl]

60. Same here, and it's creating racist hysteria where I live.

[readmoreoften]

68. Personally, I think racists are creating the racist hysteria. /nt

[dem629]

9. I think people are mostly getting tired of the overkill reporting.

We see these stories hyped all the time.

The "summer of the shark" actually saw fewer shark attacks than normal. (Here's one source: http://www.sptimes.net/2002/02/19/news_pf/State/Fewer_shark_attacks_c.shtml )

The "summer of kidnappings" actually saw fewer kidnappings than usual, according to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. (Here's one source: http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2002/08/07/kidnapping/index.html )

The media loves hype stories. People panic and watch more. Other examples: killer bees, then a bee shortage, SARS, avian flu...

Not to mention the fact that around 36,000 people die in this country every year of the "normal" flu.

[tekisui]

11. I get that,

but this has real implications. Maybe not right now, but for future pandemics. And, as it is still unfolding, it is still important.

[dem629]

15. Those other stories had real implications, too.

Until they didn't...

I think people are better off in a wait-and-see mode.

The media hype, combined with the daily DHS press conferences is just getting ridiculous.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. So you rather not have DHS give a presser every day?

in case you don't know this, all Departments in the US Government do have a presser every day, day in and day out

[hedgehog]

20. The fact that 36,000 people die every year from "normal" flu

should be a cause for greater concern, not less. That's what happens with a virus most people have some immunity to. This is a new version of the virus that no one has immunity to, and it has been killing people who would survive a "normal" flu.

[Individualist]

12. There's a difference between hype and responsible reporting

Given those choices, the TV media go with hype every time.

[tekisui]

17. I forget about the teevee media.

I get my news in print and online. I rarely watch any tv and never the cable, so my view of stories and the reactions of posters is different.

[Buzz Clik]

19. Count the number of threads mentioning "swine flu" on the front page.

It's not the reporting, it's the saturation that is objectionable.

[tekisui]

23. The story has many locales and is still unfolding,

maybe we should have a mega-flu thread and post all the updates in it. Certainly, we should watch for dupes.

[Buzz Clik]

26. This is situation normal at DU.

Air Force One photo-op.
Missing white women.
Insane pastors.
Spector's epiphany.


We can't seem to get enough of hearing ourselves speak, so we hash the same shit over and again.

This, too, shall pass.

[Hannah Bell]

21. simple. difference between reporting confirmed fact v. speculation -

"if" "could" "may" "might"

or reporting speculation as fact.

[SidDithers]

22. Information is good...

misinformation, hysteria and crazy woo? Not so much.

Sid

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. What you are not for the CIA threw piggies off plane with flu cooked

at CDC facilities?

(Yes we have had these threads here too)

:hi:

Last night was particularly fun, wasn't it?

[SidDithers]

29. This place is never dull, that's for sure...

:toast:

Sid

[glitch]

76. Damn, missed that one. Were bacon bits thrown off AF1 when it did it's photo op over NYC?

ok, I want to post a rofl but I know the topic is serious so I won't.

[Javaman]

28. Because this is DU and anything that distracts from the political discourse

is suspect.

I know, makes no sense, but that's it in a nutshell.

[yardwork]

30. Many of the same people who freak out at any criticism of Obama.

I'm not saying it's relevant, but...

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Or bad news about the economy, or any other bad news story

yep

[yardwork]

43. I guess we're supposed to be Shiny Happy People all the time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Of course, .. we are citizen

no bad news for you

:-)

[Spazito]

33. What I find impractical is the many threads, each one with, in effect, an update...

I think it would be much more helpful if there were an "Official" thread in GD titled something like "Swine Flu info and updates" where those who have updates could add to it and all the information, etc, could be found in one place. It is an issue worth covering but it is irritating to find a thread opened for each and every item related to it, imo.

[uppityperson]

36. OFFICIAL swine flu info and updates PAGE.......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5561804&mesg_id=5561804

[Spazito]

38. Perfect!!

Thank you for doing that, I think it will be very helpful in keeping all the info, stats, etc, in one place for those who wish to monitor the progression and add updates to it! I will recommend your thread!

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. That said some should be treated as ONE individual thread

[Spazito]

51. I think any hard data, updates on the flu's progression, etc, should be on the one thread...

in GD. Could you give me an example of what you feel should be treated as ONE individual thread in isolation of the "Official" thread as I don't quite understand your point.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. WHO Raises alert level, and the implications, after lunch

I'll do it

[Spazito]

53. That is one that would be worthwhile being a separate thread AND posted in the Official one...

makes sense to me. I just hope the updates to that will go into the "Official" thread as opposed to having two competing threads, neither with all the information of value.

Edited to add: I see you have posted the update re raising the level in the "Official" one, thanks for doing that!

[tekisui]

65. Thanks, this is a great idea.

:thumbsup:

[gratuitous]

37. We used to have things called public service announcements

I know! Can you believe it? But they were free ads on the teevee and the reddy-o that promoted values of good citizenship. Don't litter, know the rules of the road, be considerate of your neighbors, keep an eye out for each other.

But our society has become increasingly atomized, and "me first" seems to be the attitude du jour (or du century) nowadays. What the average person needs to know about the flu can be distilled into a 30-second spot:

Catch your cough or sneeze.
Wash your hands with soap and warm-to-hot water.
If you develop symptoms, limit your contact with others (stay home from work).
If you develop symptoms and you're in a high-risk category (very young, very old, compromised immune system), call your doctor right away.
Get plenty of rest.
Drink lots of fluids.
Don't rub your eyes, nose or mouth right after a cough or sneeze, wash your hands.
If your symptoms worsen, call your doctor or advice nurse (rather than going to the clinic).
No, even though it's called "swine" flu, you don't catch it from eating pork or pork products.

Run a 30-second ad with these points in them about four times a day on radio and television, and you'll have a citizenry armed with what it needs to know to help contain and control the spread of the flu and limit the misinformation that's circulating.

The rest of the stuff? Interesting on a public health professional level, but the excruciating detail really isn't all that vital to the average person. Hour after hour of speculation of where the contagion jumped into the human population, who died, who didn't die, and on and on does very little but ramp up the anxiety factor as reporters try to out-do one another with the latest breathless revelations!!11!eleven!

[DearAbby]

39. It's not the information is bad

its the media hype, terror tactics, alert levels, and graphics that are outrageous. Tens of thousands of people die each year due to flu. yet they are treating this like the black plague.

What is wrong with just reporting the news without the scare hype?

[Mike 03]

55. Probably unconscious fear. Especially for people who don't prepare for disasters.

It's that out of sight out of mind thing.

[Mike 03]

56. It's also a bit ironic. I'd like to know if any of the same DUers who believe conspiracy theories

about murdered scientists and such are the same ones who don't believe in pandemics?

[Echo In Light]

58. You're referring to the infamous "100 Dead Scientists/Microbiologist" list?

[JuniperLea]

63. Speaking for myself...

My sister's former neighbor was on that list, and she compiled a lot of names long before I ever heard of it on DU. Many are from our neck of the woods. There's something odd about it, and I do believe in pandemics... so...

[Echo In Light]

57. Likely a host of variables at work within the public mind, not least of which disdain for conspiracy

In part, the want of avoiding unpleasant data, meaning, info that would by its very existence require people to completely and immediately alter and re-asses their worldview (something most avoid when presented w/data that doesn't fit their background assumptions), plays a substantive role in how the top-down Conspiracies Don't Exist belief system gets so much mileage.

Now, this doesn't mean that any aspect of the swine flu outbreak is in any way, shape or form conspiratorial at all, or that I suspect it to be so. Given the track record of the M$M I'd suggest it's definitely within the realm of possibility that it's being used haphazardly within the mass media....but back to the point at hand -

- - the awful magnitude of what could happen as a result of such an outbreak brings people uncomfortably close to that level of unease that, if possible, results in a similar want of trivializing and downplaying unpleasant data (again, data which would require a worldview overhaul). Hence some of the heavy-handed, mocking, lashing out type of reactions that likewise fuels some online conspiracy deniers.

Besides that, there will always be a % who perceive any focus on bad news as "the doom n gloom crowd," as if reporting on crucial matters of significance is conspiratorially done just to irk them personally...

;)

[glitch]

77. "reporting on crucial matters of significance is conspiratorially done just to irk them personally."

:)

[Echo In Light]

81. ...

:hi:

[JuniperLea]

59. We're at level 5 now...

Thank you, tekisui, for staying on top of this.

[soothsayer]

64. because it hurts travel and entertainment and pork futures among other things

and the economy is sucky enough

[Indy Lurker]

66. I think it's a good thing

If everyone washed their hands everytime they heard the words "swine flu" it would be a non-event.

I think every broadcast covering swine flu should end by saying:

"get a flu shot, cover your cough, wash hands often, and stay home from school or work if you have symptoms."

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. And you'd be wrong on one of your recommendations

the flu shot does not work for this strain.

There is no vaccine for this strain

Hence why it has people's hair on fire

[Indy Lurker]

70. It's still a good idea to get a flu shot

and they will have a vaccine, the question is whether they will have it in time to produce it for the next flu season.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. The idea is good, but they don't have a flu shot for THIS STRAIN

they are working on it, WHO says September, which is NEXT fall's seaon and I am sure the vaccine will have this in the formula

The vaccine I got last November will do NOTHING to protect me against this

WHY this has public health officials hair on fire

You and I essentially have no immunity to this

[pitohui]

71. "the boy who cried wolf"

if you don't understand why causing the economy to take BIG hits of millions, even billions or trillions of dollars, over bullshit like SARS or west nile or the current so-called swine flu, then i can't help you, you should have been paying more attention in kindergarten

the boy who cries wolf is not educating anyone to do anything except ignore him

say there ever is a genuine pandemic, who the fuck is going to care or take action until it is too late?

fear, fear, panic, fear, fear, is not educational and it is not good public policy, and at the moment, it is just cruelly hammering people in the tourism industry who have already been hammered cruelly from the overall economic collapse

not having money kills people too, and not having money has already killed more than the less than 200 people who died from this less deadly than average flu season (most years 10s of thousands of americans die of the flu)

jeez some common sense yo?

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. IT IS A CONSPIRACY I TELL YOU

by the way, if you are actually paying attention, this is a pandemic already by WHO definition

But I am sure you knew that

[babylonsister]

74. Here's a good read. Also, there's a video of John Stewart

that's comical, cutting wise about the overreaction. I think it's overreaction, but agree it should be a learning experience, and that's going on also. Washing hands now, and it's my keyboard. :crazy:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x444681

[chill_wind]

79. I'm always in favor of more rather than less information

and erring on that side of caution in a serious scenario like this. In fact, I almost feel we could benefit from a temporary mini-forum somewhere with sub-threads until this emergence is over-- one for just tracking and raw data reporting, one for media advisories/scrutiny, one for health expertise/scientific discussion, etc. All posts would get shuttled there for conveniently centralized access for those who really want to monitor closely, and it organizes and contains the proliferation of threads and info for those both interested and not interested.. just my imho..

[sandrakae]

80. The need for real information has been ruined by Tom Ridge and those Stupid Red Alerts.

[conscious evolution]

83. Because it smells of wag the pig

One day torture is the big story-the next its run for your life we're all gonna die.

In case anyone has forgotten scare tactics are a big part of the rightwings bag of tricks that are used to herd the people in the direction they want.

[BoneDaddy]

84. The reason is that progressives are so jaded

Anything that comes from the mainstream media is seen as suspect. Now, while this may be true to a good degree, it may be premature in cases such as these.

Coming out of an administration that used fear as it's main tactic, it is no surprise that people may respond in such a way, given that we have been sold so much BS in the past.