GOP Lawyer: Unless You Are "An Idiot"-'Waterboarding Not So Bad-It Alleviates Fear of Execution'

[kpete]

GOP Lawyer Rivkin: Waterboarding Not So Bad — It Alleviates Fear of Execution

.................

Rivkin said the authorized “techniques” really didn’t rise to the level of torture or “cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment,” as outlawed by the Convention Against Torture and the U.S. law implementing it, because none of the methods inflicted “severe physical or mental pain or suffering,” as the statute defines torture. One of the statute’s definitions of severe mental suffering, however, is the threat of imminent death. (As Spencer wrote here, Bybee himself wrote that waterboarding involves the threat of imminent death, although he still somehow concluded that it wasn’t torture.)

Well, Rivkin argued, waterboarding and those other techniques couldn’t have been torture, because despite the apparent threat, the detainees knew they weren’t going to get killed.

And how did they know that?

“Assuming even an average level of intelligence, you would have to be an idiot to think that they’re going to kill you,” Rivkin said. “So the fact that you’d be killed deliberately is not a plausible scenario.”

He went on to explain his evidence for this:

“I’ve read lots of memoirs of people languishing in gulags … One thing that emerges very clearly is actually how, despite their horribly grim circumstances, the prisoners actually welcomed interrogations. As a way to break the oppressive monotony of the cell or working conditions. So they always welcome even the most sadistic and unpleasant interrogators. And to the extent that you’re worried about being shot eventually, during interrogations you’re not worried about that. We’re all fairly rational beings, isn’t that a rational point?”

.......................

more sadism at:
http://washingtonindependent.com/41206/gop-lawyer-rivkin-waterboarding-not-so-bad-it-alleviates-fear-of-execution#more-41206

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

1. Oh. My. God.

Speechless.

[madokie]

2. Anyone who tries to downplay that waterboarding is not torture

should have a short session done to them to show the ignorant bastards what the hell it really is.
sorry for the word choice I made as I don't have a better one at the ready right now.

[NorthernSpy]

5. Speaking of which...

Whatever came of Sean Hannity's offer to allow himself to be waterboarded? Has he officially chickened out, or what?


Anyone know?

[madokie]

14. He was never serious about doing it to begin with I would bet

so he will try to let it pass without saying or doing anything. He's a wuss

[kentauros]

22. There has to be more than a "short session" involved, however.

Otherwise, they will still "know" they are not going to be killed.

Instead, use a technique I saw taken against a group of people trying to learn how to be spies for MI6 (it was the only "reality show" I ever watched and liked, called simply "Spy" for British TV.) You have to basically kidnap the person, use your Special Ops people so there's plenty of terror involved to the individual and they have no idea who is kidnapping them. Although for a GOP lawyer it would probably help to have them all yelling in Arabic ;)

Only if you instill enough fear of the unknown will a short session of waterboarding ever get through their skulls that it is indeed torture. Anything less and they'll still come out of the experience denying that it's anything but a useful interrogation technique.

[madokie]

23. Well no doubt about that.

I just didn't want to go there here is all. I spent a tour of duty at the navys sere training camp back in '68 and early '69. I had to take the class and pass the course myself to be stationed there so I have some idea about what's involved in torture and as you say the fear of the unknown plays a big part. I also agree with what you're saying about the thick skulled dumbassed chickenhawk mofo's too. :hi:

[kentauros]

27. One of my coworkers is a former Marine

and he's told me some stories about people trying out for Seals. Pretty grueling stuff, so you have my respect just for getting though that kind of training :)

I recall reading something back when the waterboarding issue was first out where CIA personnel that volunteered to be waterboarded couldn't take more than 17 seconds of it. And that's knowing they weren't going to be killed, too. Perhaps what this lawyer really needs is a "phone call" (hand-crank telephone generator "shock therapy".)

[tridim]

3. Wonder what GOP Lawyer Rivkin thinks about prison rape?

Because that's what this worthless piece of shit has to look forward to. At least he wont die. :eyes: :grr:

[nichomachus]

10. Like most Republicans, he probably fantasizes about it while wanking

[cliffordu]

4. I'd like to give this fucker 20 minutes with the boys from

Syria. I give him 10 seconds to understand he might die and 2 minutes to beg for it.

[bertman]

6. I think the really fun part would be watching the look on his face when "swarthy" men

--obviously professionals--with severe looks, and speaking a language he does not understand, begin trussing him up like a pig. That's about the point that he pisses himself.

I say "fun" only in the sense that it would be a minor form of justice for this Nazi idiot.

[cliffordu]

13. I'm a big fan of ugly justice as a kind of fun

[bullwinkle428]

24. Line him up in the queue right behind Hannity!

:evilgrin:

[cliffordu]

26. And all the fucking lawyers who said this was just peachy..

"So ye sow shall ye reap..."\\

OR however that goes.

[NEOhiodemocrat]

7. .................

can not even find the words to describe what I think of this man. Truly speechless.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

8. Dying is only worse than being tortured if you know you're going to hell.

[EFerrari]

9. Who does he work for, actually? Poppy.

David B. Rivkin

David B. Rivkin, Jr., is a member of the firm’s litigation, international and environmental groups. He has in-depth experience with various constitutional issues that are frequently implicated by federal regulatory statutes, including commerce clause-, appointments clause- and due process-related issues, as well as First and Tenth amendment-related matters.

Mr. Rivkin also has practiced in the area of public international law and has extensive experience in international arbitration and policy advocacy on a wide range of international and domestic issues, including treaty implementation, multilateral and unilateral sanctions, corporate law, environmental and energy matters (with an emphasis on policy, regulatory and enforcement issues).

He is also particularly knowledgeable about, and has been involved in, the handling of complex and contentious matters for clients that require the combination of lobbying, litigation and public relations and implicate difficult public policy issues.

Mr. Rivkin, from 1993 to December 1999, was a member of Hunton and Williams’ law firm. Prior to returning to private practice in 1993, Mr. Rivkin was Associate Executive Director and Counsel of the President’s Council on Competitiveness at the White House. While there, he was responsible for the review and analysis of legal issues related to the regulatory review conducted by the Council.

He also handled the development and implementation of President Bush’s de-regulatory initiatives, carried out during 1991-92, which entailed review of all existing federal regulatory strictures and the application of a more rigorous cost-effective standard to new regulations. Substantive areas of responsibility included international economic matters, energy, environment and tax issues. He played a leading role in the development of Order 636, which introduced major changes to the regulation of the interstate natural gas pipelines, and simultaneously served as the Special Assistant for Domestic Policy to then Vice President Dan Quayle.

Mr. Rivkin, as Associate General Counsel, U.S. Department of Energy (DOE), 1990-91, was responsible for international, constitutional, environmental and energy matters, including global climate change problems, natural gas, hydro and electricity issues, development and implementation of the Natural Energy Strategy, implementation of the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990, wetlands policy and related issues, development of RCRA and Clean Water Act legislative proposals, and deregulation of energy markets.

Mr. Rivkin also played a significant role in developing the Reagan and Bush Administrations’ regulatory and legislative proposals affecting natural gas and electric utility industries. In addition to his positions with the Council on Competitiveness and the Department of Energy, he served in the Office of then Vice President George Bush, as Legal Advisor to the Counsel to the President, and as Deputy Director of the Office of Policy Development (OPD), U.S. Department of Justice. While at OPD, he worked on a wide variety of constitutional, domestic and international issues, including judicial selection, legal policy, immigration and asylum matters and intelligence oversight.

Prior to embarking on a legal career, Mr. Rivkin served as a defense and foreign policy analyst, focusing on Soviet affairs, arms control, naval strategy and NATO-related issues, and worked as a defense consultant to numerous government agencies and Washington think tanks.

Mr. Rivkin is a member of the District of Columbia Bar and the Council on Foreign Relations. He is a prolific writer and has published numerous papers, articles, book reviews, and book chapters on a variety of international, legal, constitutional, defense, arms control, foreign policy, environmental and energy issues in various publications including the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Washington Times, Los Angeles Times, Foreign Affairs, Foreign Policy, National Interest, Policy Review, Harvard Journal of Law & Policy, American University Law Review, Administrative Law Journal and University of Pennsylvania Law Review.

http://www.bakerlaw.com/davidbrivkin/

There's a linked list of his articles if anyone wants to study sociopathology in depth.

[Alcibiades]

11. Some of the most important effects of torture is on the torturers

Right now, we have scads of folks in the military and intelligence fields who have been trained in waterboarding, and told it's not torture. Read the resumes of your local police department, and you'll find that many of them started in the MPs. Herein is one problem not noticed by the media: lots of folks who have been torturing will eventually find employment in law enforcement and the criminal justice system. I don't want cops out there who think torture is OK.

If waterboarding is not torture, why not do it to suspects? The confessions elicited would save the government a lot of money. The line this "lawyer" draws--that torture is permissible so long as the victim knows he is not going to be killed deliberately--is nowhere in the Constitution. Moreover, if someone is willing to torture someone in their custody, you have to assume that the torturer is willing to kill. There's also the fear they might accidentally kill you, but that apparently does not matter.

[VenusRising]

12. Yes. It. Fucking. IS. Torture.

And nothing any of them say is going to change that.

:nuke::grr::nuke::grr:

[spanone]

15. no surprise, it was the bu$h* gop lawyers that gave the green light to torture in the first place

[riverwalker]

16. David B. Rivkin Jr. has a history of slime

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x225879

http://www.bakerlaw.com/davidbrivkin/ (has contact info)

[Ikonoklast]

17. The person making those statements is not rational.

Those are the delsuional writings of a madman.

[Ikonoklast]

18. Delete/dupe.

[The Hope Mobile]

19. Where do they find theses people??

[emmadoggy]

20. Soooo...

if you "know" that whatever they are doing to you is not going to kill you, then it doesn't qualify as torture?? :wtf:

This guy is a really sick bastard.

[endarkenment]

21. We've tortured prisoners to death.

I guess the fact that the death wasn't deliberate, just slow and excruciatingly painful, would ease the minds of those survivors still undergoing 'interrogation'.

[Echo In Light]

25. Since I've been watching, for the 1st time in many yrs, M$M again (MSNBC) I've yet to hear that...

I've gotten the distinct impression that the M$M wants to strictly focus on this one area - waterboarding - since it's easier to create a doubt within the public mind that what the US govt/military was/is doing is actually torture. Note how any mention of the word automatically results in that WB demo video that is used specifically to trivialize the matter.

I seriously doubt that the average American, provided they get all/most of their info from mainstream sources are even aware of the litany of atrocities, including systematic child rape, even occurred. That's likely just a "conspiracy theory" for such people.

[kentuck]

28. I have seen this guy before...

He's a little Nazi.