Race-Baiting on Tweety. Buchanan Says "So What?" to Black Firefighters Being Fed Dog Food

[K Gardner]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/

Tweety says firefighting is an Irish-Catholic tradition that is passed down through generations.

Joan Walsh finally says: "Don't race-bait me." The entire episode is ugly and disgusting.

I'm not commenting on the case. I don't want to argue about affirmative action. But this segment is ugly and nasty. Watching Pat Buchanan complain about "white discrimination" is just beyond the pale.

[stillcool]

1. he said some nasty stuff...

during the primaries and beyond. Definitely an 'us' vs. 'them' mentality. Good think he's out of government..well..sort of.

[konnichi wa]

2. I'm no fan of Pat Buchanan but he rightly pointed out that the 'dog food'

event had nothing to do with what they were discussing.

[Towlie]

5. Exactly. The thread title is misleading. Buchanan was just saying that the issue was irrelevant.

[monmouth]

3. Tweety is going back to the olden days when firemen and policemen

were mostly Irish. The old jokes were "Officer Clancy", etc. He really needs to come up to speed.

[Amiga500]

21. Gangs of New York. Super flick.n/t

.

[dustbunnie]

28. In some cities it isn't so olden days. And some of new generation would love to get out -

from under the family tradition. :)

[loyalkydem]

4. BOO HOO WHOO

God, someone shut Pat up

[konnichi wa]

12. Yeah let's just shitcan that goddamn inconvenient First Amendment.

:grr:

[Richard Steele]

32. Right., because that's exactly what he was saying.

M'kay. :eyes:

[Hepburn]

6. What an asshole...

...but not unexpected from Pat Fuckcanan.

[spotbird]

7. Bush was unqualified for Harvard and Yale

The outrage of legacy admissions should be mentioned in every conversation about affirmative action.

[Captain Hilts]

11. I completely agree. And legacy admissions still happen. nt

[Skidmore]

8. Matthews was pretty ugly too.

[CBR]

13. The argument is an argument to be had and I am a strong

supporter of Affirmative Action; however, Tweety's silence was deafening while Pat compared the plight of white men to black men and these firefighters to Jackie Robinson. Unbelievable.

[TahitiNut]

9. They AGAIN framed the 'problem' wrongly.

This is the framing of the Buchanan lobby ... just talk about the single incident and the single test and the single hire. DON'T talk about the last time and the time before that and the time before that and the time before that and the time before that and the time before that and the time before that.

These (so-called) 'affirmative action' incidents are the CULMINATION of a HISTORY of biased recruiting, biased hiring, biased training, biased promotions, poor retention, and a hostile work environment. As a fellow who worked on "Diversity" programs and advocacy, I've seen this far too clearly. It's disgusting.

[Captain Hilts]

10. This particular case is a strange one that does not fit into standard categories. nt

[thunder rising]

14. '"white discrimination" is just beyond the pale.' ... I get it

[Stinky The Clown]

15. It was Matthews, not Buchanan, to whom Walsh addressed that "don't race bait me" reply.

"I have family who are Irish firefighters. They're brave and I'm proud of them. But there is no room for discrimination in public sector jobs."

Joan is consistently quite something. She has never disappointed me.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. It the New Haven case there is no proof or even substantive claim of discrimination

[Stinky The Clown]

29. Okay, but that's not what I was talking about

I was simply saying it was Matthews, not Buchanan to whom Walsh was directing her comments.

[Jim Sagle]

16. Puchanan ain't nuthin' but Nazi filth.

:puke:

[Supersedeas]

37. this is more about Tweety than Buchanan--his prolly needs a refill on his meds

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. The title of this post is nonsense, the contents worse

There is much more to this that the OP would have us believe. In the New Haven the class was developed by an outside company with the specific intent on racial fairness. The argument has been over the results not the fairness of the test. Sorry guys, thats discrimination, and its wrong. The test results should have stood.

The dog food issue was in CA. The individual was an active participant in hazing and filed suit when the same was done to him. It has nothing to do with the New Haven case. IMO that person is just looking for a gravy train and is hurtful to progress overall.

The best way to deal with it is for everyone to file as mixed race. The declaration is voluntary and can not be over ridden by the employer. I.e.: Money wrench the system.

[konnichi wa]

20. 'money wrench the system'!! I love that!!!

It's notably clever in several different ways!
:toast:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. Monkey Wrenching is an old tactic, but so am I. Corrupt the data and the system fails

No one outside of yourself is allowed to declare for the record you race/ethnicity/religion. I have at times been listed as a Black Hispanic Buddhist, others as a Jedi

[konnichi wa]

26. My observation was largely due to seeing what I imagined to be a Freudian

spelling slip. :D

[JerseygirlCT]

19. That whole case is a big fat mess

There is no good answer, there's no good outcome.

It all comes down to the test itself, I think, and whether it can be tested and the results can be judged quantifiable and useful. And of course, the time for figuring that out was before it was administered.

Such a big fat mess. Sure glad I don't have to rule on it!

[ProgressiveProfessor]

24. An outside company was brought in to insure the test was fair.

The test itself has never really been questioned, only the result. Its the classic contradiction in Title VII.

[CTyankee]

33. This case is a train wreck. I am furious that our mayor, whose name is on the case, did not

do due diligence in getting a race neutral testing system by finding other cities "best practices" that get good, balanced results. Our mayor is a bad ass, even tho he is a Dem, and I refuse to vote forhim in his reelection bid.

There was a lot of down and dirty politics in this thing. I think it augurs badly for affirmative action. There are some bad actors here and it doesn't reflect well on liberal New Haven.

[JerseygirlCT]

34. I agree wit h you

There was nothing cut and dried about this thing - just one big train wreck, as you put it.

And how they're going to unknot it all in court is truly beyond me. There isn't a good solution in the immediate timeframe.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

36. I have read that they brought in an outside company to develop the test to keep it fair and neutral

was the bad information?

[CTyankee]

39. I have not seen the test. They did bring in an outside company to develop the test.

But I have learned that there are other ways that testing can be fairer. One is having a mixed test of oral, written and simulation. It has gotten good results in getting a better racial mix getting high scores. There is a good article on the case in the "Advocate." Here is one telling paragraph on what the city did:

"But the city never proved whether the test was flawed: The testing company that created the exam offered to audit the test for "adverse impact" — essentially whether the results pointed to racial bias — but the city didn't want to see it." More of the back story in the article: http://www.hartfordadvocate.com/article.cfm?aid=12755

If we get a bad Supreme Court decision on affirmative action, I blame our current mayor who let this happen. And to his eternal shame (if he has any) his name is forever on the case.

The Obama admin. came in with an amicus brief, asking that the SC send the case back to the district court for further scrutiny. I don't know if that helps matters or not. Obama himself must be pretty pissed off and he would have good reason to be.

Read the article. It's pretty sad.

[shireen]

22. heard that, it was creepy

that man is vile.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

25. The argument is that they were discriminated against because they were white.

The city has admitted that is the case.

David

[ProgressiveProfessor]

27. The city is hiding behind Title VII, but the firefighters are suing under that as well

This is a hard case and the weakness in current law and precedents are glaring. The key is the test and no one has contested its contents, only its results.

[Number23]

30. I liked that Joan woman.

When she told Chris Matthews "don't race bait me" I'm not exactly sure what she meant but it still sounded like she was determined not to back down and let him get away his his "Irish firefighters died on 9/11" crap.

She's right. This is an immensely tough case and simpletons with simple arguments on both sides of the equation solve nothing.

[JI7]

31. Buchanan also said White Men are now being treated how Black people use to be treated

in this country.

[JerseygirlCT]

35. I know, which is absurd and absurdly exaggerated.

It is quite possible though, that in this case, individuals happening to be white were treated badly. That's the rub.

[dorkulon]

38. I gotta say, I think Walsh has the weaker case.

I'm not against affirmative action, but this case seems like going too far to me, unless the test has a pronounced cultural bias.

[CTyankee]

40. IT could have been avoided but the city did not want the test to be tested for

adverse outcomes. If the city doesn't do its job, then it has to take the blame for the problems it creates.

There is more to this than meets the eye. If the case is remanded to the lower courts to hash this stuff out, we might get a clearer picture and perhaps a modified outcome. I am not optimistic that this will happen, tho. The white firefighters stories were pretty compelling. And the city has a lot going against it and for good reason, IMO.