Anyone here affiliated with Landmark Education?

[blindpig]

Have you attended any meetings, completed any courses or are employed by Landmark education?

Just curious.

[Cronus Protagonist]

1. I've done a few

Quite a lot of the courses, actually.

[KGodel]

2. EST?

Aren't they a Werner Erhard spinoff?

My brother's done some of their stuff (assuming we're talking about the same outfit). Can't say I've seen that it made much difference.

[Sebastian Doyle]

3. Scientology, minus the Xenu and little alien Thetans crap.

Otherwise same basic cult routines.... give them a lot of money, and they'll tell you a lot of bullshit.

[Cronus Protagonist]

7. True, you give them a couple hundred bucks and they do tell you a lot of stuff

And if you hear it as bullshit, that's what you get for your money. Personally, I don't like to waste my money like that. I prefer to get something more than bullshit out of my expenditures.

And Scientology is a religion, some say a cult, neither of which describes LEC courses or organization. Apples and oranges.

[bluedawg12]

28. You seem pretty knowledgable about this group, what did you get for your money?

"And if you hear it as bullshit, that's what you get for your money. Personally, I don't like to waste my money like that. I prefer to get something more than bullshit out of my expenditures. - Cronus Protagonist"

What did you "hear?"

[Citizen Kang]

36. I think he is saying

That the forum is a lot like life, yet get out of it what you put in. Which is one of the main lessons you get in the forum. Fairly simple, I know, but you'd be surprised how many people don't get that.

[bluedawg12]

40. Thank you. I put something into this and I did get something out of your reply.

:)

[Poll_Blind]

4. A few years ago a co-worker used an amazingly hard sell to get me to go.

He pushed so hard for it that it really turned me off. I still have no idea why someone goes into an office setting and proceeds to hard-sell something like that to everyone in the office. I don't think anyone wound up attending and after a few months the dude eventually gave up.

I have no idea exactly what the program is, though I have some vague notion of what it's about. But I live in Eugene, Oregon and there are a fair share of cults and cult recruiting going on here. I'm not saying Landmark is anything like that but whenever someone hammers on you to attend a function like that (one that involved money, IIRC- though introduction was free), I just think about the Scientologists that recruit on the University of Oregon's campus, the Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh whose influence was very strong in the area in the 80's and it turns me the hell off.

PB

[Cronus Protagonist]

6. ummmm it's not a cult

At least you admit you have no idea what they're selling, but then again, you compare LEC with Scientology, cults and religions, which also proves your not against blowing smoke out your ass.

[Poll_Blind]

15. Take a chill pill. I didn't compare them, I just said the hard sell reminded me of those groups.

Because...um...it did. :toast:

PB

[LostinVA]

17. There's a good reason it did

[Cronus Protagonist]

18. Sure, and your post reminded me of an uneducated simpleton

Not that there's anything wrong with that, or you, but it just did.

:rofl: :pals:

[readmoreoften]

21. Quick ad hominem attack--that is the Landmark response to criticism.

If you critique the process you are vicious, stupid, "holding onto your fear", etc. Couldn't be a concerned citizen who cares enough about the world to debunk charlatans who prey on and feed the insecurities of regular people for big profits?

[Poll_Blind]

23. It is kind of humorous in a way, though. When an anti-social personality defends a for-profit...

..."self-help" organization by insulting everyone and anyone who doesn't toe their party line, it just makes their organization look all-the-more selfish and manipulative.

It does make for some amusing reading during a hot, lazy afternoon though. :popcorn:

PB

[Ladyhawk]

24. A friend of mine dumped me when I refused the hard sell.

If you think you're being proselytized, you probably are.

Landmark is cult-like in that they put a lot of pressure on members to recruit others. My friend also had a very cult-like reaction, refusing to have anything to do with someone who resisted the almighty forum.

In response to my friend's pressure, I did some research on Landmark (and est) and didn't like what I found: long seminars to wear you down, claims of quick fixes, huge expenditures for "fixing" you, pressure to recruit others.

Landmark tries to claim that the stories we tell ourselves are "a racket." Landmark itself is nothing but a racket.

Buyer beware.

[Lex]

5. I finally had to be almost rude to some friends (real estate agents)

who keep on and on and on trying to get me to go to Landmark. I'd already done some research and wasn't interested. Their fervor made me suspicious too--the only other time I'd encountered that kind of hard-sell was with people pedaling religion at my door. No thanks.

[Cronus Protagonist]

9. It's not for you then

It's not for everyone. Your friends need to take a chill pill. Clearly you know it's not for you, and I hope you made it clear to them the same.

[Lex]

11. Yeah, no kidding it's not for me. Plus one of my friends has spent $5,000

over a few years on their seminars and "education." Sounds like an Amway thing without the pretense of selling soap.

[Cronus Protagonist]

12. Gosh, that's hard to do, and would take some time

The Forum costs $300, the Advanced Course (less than 20 percent do the Advanced Course) costs around $800, and a 12 week seminar, of which there are dozens available, costs about $120 per 12 weeks.

It would take years of work to spend that much cash, so wouldn't you assume she/he is getting something worth the money if they're spending that much time and effort as well as cash on their services? I know I've done LEC courses off and on for two decades and my cost total is still lower than five grand, a LOT lower.

In case anyone wants to get information from the source, here's a link: http://landmark-education.com

[readmoreoften]

22. People spend money on crack and snake oil too. Doesn't mean they get anything out of it. /nt

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

43. I refuse to even have the conversation with people any more.

One of my closest friends is a big proponent of Landmark, as are several others in my extended group of friends. I don't even talk about the reasons for my saying "no" any more, because all it does is lead to more of the hard sell techniques. Basically I make it clear that the topic is off limits with me.

[TimesSquareCowboy]

8. Believer magazine did an article on them a few years ago, you might look that up.

[KGodel]

10. Yeah, did the search.

It's warmed over Werner Erhardt EST crap.

From "Landmark Education - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia":

The Cult Awareness and Information Centre has listed the Landmark Forum among psychotherapy cults, in a collection of "cults and isms".<12><14> The contention that the Forum is "cult-like" has been aired in at least half a dozen newspaper articles over the last decade.<35> Landmark vehemently rejects the cult label and "freely threatens or pursues lawsuits against those who call it one."<36>


<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landmark_Education>

[Cronus Protagonist]

16. Another example of why one should not trust Wikipedia

A center run by Scientologists smears LEC and Wiki presents their smear as facts. Sorry. Nothing that Hubbardians say has any value in a world where accurate information is required. And this is also from Wiki, so consider the source...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_Awareness_Network

The Cult Awareness Network (CAN) was founded in the wake of the November 18, 1978 deaths of members of the group Peoples Temple and assassination of Congressman Leo J. Ryan in Jonestown, Guyana. CAN is now owned and operated by associates of the Church of Scientology, an organization that the original founders of CAN strongly opposed. Prior to its hostile takeover,<1> CAN provided information on groups that it considered to be cults, as well as support and referrals to exit counselors and deprogrammers. <2><3><4>

[Starry Messenger]

20. CAN (Cult Awareness Network) is run by Scientology.

CAIC (Cult Awareness and Information Centre) is a different group.

http://www.caic.org.au/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_Awareness_and_Information_Centre

[Poll_Blind]

25. Thanks for that link! I remember coming across that site before...

...when I was searching for whatever happened to Equinox, a pyramid scheme the government busted up a few years ago. An old girlfriend had been sucked into their "system" (and worn ragged) back in the 90's and I was interested in learning whatever became of the organization. It was horrible how these schemes basically require constant selling and recruiting, usually to get people under you so they can sell to increase your paycheck.

Anyway, thanks for the link! I bet things like this are going to be on the rise quite a bit with the economy in such poor shape.

PB

[Starry Messenger]

27. You bet.

You are quite welcome. My father is involved in a group that is an offshoot of Lifespring, which was founded by an associate of Werner Erhard. He has spent many thousands of dollars over the past 25 years. It's heartbreaking to watch.

Equinox is horrible. I think they keep changing their name and moving the storefront.

[conscious evolution]

13. Me and a couple of frends

went to one of their orientations.
We walked out.
Something about it did not seem right.We both picked up bad vibes from it.
I have since learned several nieghbors have been through there courses.They all seem too happy happy,joyjoy about the place to suit me.
The hard sell members push also turned me off.

[Cronus Protagonist]

19. A common complaint

And not unfounded either. The problem is that the people who want you to do the courses are not trained presenters, nor are they staff members or anything. They're just your friends and neighbors who are excited and want to tell you about it.

They're not supposed to pressure you in any way at all, and this is stressed over and over inside the LEC but, having said that, these are excited, happy people who, naturally, act as such, and can therefore be insensitive to the impressions they are giving you and others.

From the perspective of the attendees, it's difficult to look at happy, excited people and not wonder what they're "on", and also to wonder if they're being manipulated somehow, so it's understandable that some people who go to introductions leave with the same impression you had. And there's not much that can be done about it. Happy people do tend to act as such and there's little one can do to dampen their enthusiasm.

[conscious evolution]

35. It was staff

who kept up the hard sell.
I made the mistake of giving them my number and have regretted it since.I still get an occassional call from Landmark trying to suck me in.

[rateyes]

14. First I've heard of it. And, after googling it, and reading reviews from

people who have attended...it's the last I want to hear of it. I value my sanity. I'm not going to sell it to anyone for a bunch of lame promises about "success and fulfillment."

[Ignis]

26. It's a cult. Run quickly in the opposite direction.

http://www.rickross.com/groups/landmark.html

[dysfunctional press]

29. they sound like a cult that preys on the weak-minded and weak-willed.

but then- there ought to be a place for those people...it just shouldn't cost them money.

[Lex]

38. Evidently the contrived camraderie & talk-therapy aspect of it is valuable to some people.

And then the Landmark folks prey on them to "sell" the program to others so they can keep raking in the dough.

[Citizen Kang]

30. I've taken the Landmark Forum

and I'm about to take the advanced course. I would say to those who have "researched" it by looking up what a few people have to say on the internet, you haven't seen the whole picture. Take the course, then judge for yourself.

Here's my take on Landmark:

Its a personal development and self-help seminar and thats about it. It gives you insight into that little voice in your head and explains many reasons why people do the things they do, even if they are self destructive. You get a pretty good education on psychology, zen philosophy, communication skills and how to deal with emotions and reality.

They do spend a lot of time trying to get you to recruit other people to join Landmark. I did not want to be a part of that so I did not participate in those exercises. Some people wanted to bring others in on what they had just experienced. Whatever.

In the forum, I personally saw dozens of people heal deep emotional wounds and reconnect with estranged family members and friends. Years of hate, insecurity, fear and self-loathing were taken away from some very sad people. It was very powerful and touching to watch. I also saw about 4 people get up and leave during the weekend for whatever reason. This was out of about 120 people.

In short, if you ignore the sales pitch to bring in other people and focus on what they are trying to teach you, it is a very rewarding experience.

[cornermouse]

31. Well,

"In the forum, I personally saw dozens of people heal deep emotional wounds and reconnect with estranged family members and friends. Years of hate, insecurity, fear and self-loathing were taken away from some very sad people. It was very powerful and touching to watch. I also saw about 4 people get up and leave during the weekend for whatever reason. This was out of about 120 people."

Sounds like the Oral Roberts crusades my grandparents used to watch on tv. "Heal!" "Heal!" "Be healed!" And they always seemed to fall backwards to the floor.

[LostinVA]

33. Yup

[Citizen Kang]

34. except

that's not what happened. There were some very courageous people who got up in front of a large crowd to work out their personal issues. The forum leader and people in the forum helped them talk through it and find a resolution that gave them some peace of mind. There was no talk of God or Jesus or blind faith, just some straight forward common sense.

I'm just giving you my experience. Mock all you want, but unless you have experienced it first hand, you are really just making stuff up from a pre-set stereotype. How very tolerant....

[LostinVA]

39. No one is mocking you, we are just stating that it IS a cult, no matter your experience

[Citizen Kang]

41. You are entitled to your opinion

You have a lot of negative things to say about Landmark Education, but you really haven't explained why you feel the way you do. Maybe I would be more inclined to see your point of view if you shared your experience with Landmark the way I have.

[sendero]

32. Here's my story...

... I met a girl and we became friends. She was into this (Landmark) and asked me to attend a meeting with her.

I did. Several people got up and spoke, folks who apparently had taken the course(s). They were all "positive", many of them treacly so. Some of them seemed, well, socially inept would be the best description I can think of.

Well, I was going through a rough patch and what they were selling sounded interesting. I was willing to pay the money and lose the weekend.

I got with a representative who had me fill out a long form. One of the questions was "are you taking any psychiatric medications?". Well, a mere month or two before I had begun taking lithium. Before I wrote that down, I asked the rep about the question. He said "oh don't worry about that, we can work around it, what are you taking?"

Well, when I answered his question, he got flustered. He said that I could not take the course. Now I realize that most people, when they think "bipolar", they think full on crazy. That would not be a very good characterization of my particular variation. I suffered only from hypomania and a pretty good temper. There is no way that I was going to have a problem getting through the course, and I was pretty angry at the guy for one minute saying "no problem" and the next acting like I'd just bit the head off a live chicken.

He said he'd talk to the manager blah blah blah, and I hung around a few minutes waiting - getting angrier, and finally just left.

I don't think I saw the girl much after that either. :)

[cali]

37. what igorance.

makes me angry that you were treated that way.

[ContinentalOp]

42. They probably don't want any liability if they cause someone to have a breakdown...

http://www.rickross.com/reference/landmark/landmark22.html