The more I think about Dr. Tiller's murderer

[canetoad]

and the violent males in this movement, the more I believe that they are reacting to the base and animalistic urges of needing to, without consideration, impregnate every living female they encounter. Doctors who provide abortions thwart, on a primal level, their need to sow their seed.

It really is caveman behaviour.

[MercutioATC]

1. Oh. My. God.

:popcorn:

[canetoad]

2. You must have read something into that post

that was not intended.

[MercutioATC]

6. Violently anti-abortion men subconsciously want to impregnate every woman they encounter?

...and they attack abortion doctors because the doctors prevent them from sowing their seed.


Did I get it right?

[canetoad]

9. That's pretty much it

Don't see why it's popcorn material.

And by subconscious I really mean the most basic and primeval urge level.

[TahitiNut]

32. I hope that popcorn isn't "testosterone-poisoned."

:popcorn: Can't tell about mine. :shrug:

[MercutioATC]

37. I have twice as much popcorn.

My male kernels were unable to resist their primal urges and impregnated all of the female kernels.

[TahitiNut]

40. Ah-hah! I guess that's why it's called "popcorn" instead of "momcorn."

:evilgrin: :silly: :evilgrin: :silly: :evilgrin:


Sometimes it takes patience to set up a one-liner.

[dflprincess]

3. While I agree that males who are heavily into the anti-choice groups

generally fear women and have control issues, I don't know if I can agree that it's all coming from their lizard brains. I think it's more feelings of inadequacy and their own insecurities.

[defendandprotect]

25. I'd suggest religious fanatacism . . .

organized patriarchal religion teaches them they are superior, women "inferior"

and agree on control issues --

THINK THE BIG ERASER THAT ABORTION PROVIDES REALLY PISSES THEM OFF -- !!!

[Caliman73]

39. I second the religious fanaticism...

It's more about fanaticism than anything else. These aren't men wanting to impregnate anything. These are men brainwashed into thinking that killing is a way to get closer to their god. They think that they are defending babies and slaying "evil doers".

[Kievan Rus]

4. Being an RW misogynist...so easy, a caveman can do it!

[lisa58]

5. I think I know what you mean - they are reacting to their ego...

...which is here for survivial - they don't get that spirit is forever

[canetoad]

7. Exactly

How else can you explain the contradiction of being quite prepared to murder then profess to being 'pro-life'. Their fanaticism disturbs me as it seems to come from a different place to thought-out moral stances.

[pipi_k]

8. What about the women, though?

Is it because they really detest their own gender?

Are they that badly brainwashed?


I always wonder about people who seem to work against their own, or their particular group's, interests...

What causes them to do something so stupid?

[canetoad]

12. Also an unevolved need to reproduce?

If they rely on the males to provide for and guard them, I can see why they would not see themselves as not acting in the best interests of their group.





'The best contraceptive is an educated woman'.

[defendandprotect]

23. Religious fanatacism . . . ???

which, of course, is organized patriarchal religious fanatacism ...

which they don't seem to get, either!

[armyowalgreens]

10. I think the important thing to focus on is the abandoning of reasoning.

If all males have this "urge", Which I think is BS, then why don't liberal guys want to impregnate all women?


What guys are is constantly horny. That is significantly different than your claim.


The reason why conservative males have that mentality is because they abandon the "reasoning" that allows humans to fight back those "urges"

[canetoad]

13. I did not say all males have this urge

You have looked at this post with the eyes of a young male and only seen what you wish to see.

I speak of unevolved behaviour. You probably use the term 'knuckledragger'.

[armyowalgreens]

16. You misunderstand how evolution functions...

It's not that deep down the male has the subconscious urge to impregnate women. They have the physical need to have sex. They are horny. The benefit of that is that they impregnate women.

Urges are the result of physical reactions in the body. A baby doesn't eat because it wants to survive. It eats because that's how it makes the pain of hunger go away. The benefit of survival is secondary.

How people translate those physical reactions is the issue. All conscious understanding is learned from the environment.

[canetoad]

17. You've got it arse about

Physical reactions are the RESULT of brain activity.

[armyowalgreens]

18. Brain activity is a physical reaction...

I'm talking about unintelligent physical reactions (chemical and electrical reactions in the body).

[defendandprotect]

22. Actually, I've read that, in fact, males have a stronger desire to procreate than females!!!

I haven't read all of the comments -- just offering that.

[armyowalgreens]

24. I'm not sure what you are saying...

Are you saying they hornier?

Or are you stating that they literally have a stronger desire to impregnate women?

And are you talking about this from the angle that it's genetics or socialized?

[defendandprotect]

26. No, I've read they have a stronger urge to make a baby than females do . . .

presume you're male . . .

but women will tell you that long after they have decided they are NOT

going to have any more children, they'll suddenly be struck with the

thought that they really want one!

I've never heard males admit to this -- given patriarchy, any such notions

would be well buried. But, I didn't think it that odd when I read this

quite a while back.

Some day we might hear something of this from males?

[armyowalgreens]

28. Well that could be socialized. But it is not genetic.

[defendandprotect]

29. Socialized . . . ??? In a patriarchy which hates women . . . ????? No . . .

and, how would you possibly know that it's not genetic?????

[armyowalgreens]

30. Because conscious thought is socialized.

Men aren't born with the urge to have babies. They are born with the genetics to make them hornier. It's a physical reaction.

[defendandprotect]

31. Instinct . . . which is what we are talking about is not "socialized."...

When I told you the story of females wanting babies they didn't want . . .

that would be "socialized."

Man's subconscious desire to make a baby -- something males are not even

admitting to themselves . . . would not be.

[armyowalgreens]

33. Too many people mistunderstand what instinct is.

Instinct is an unavoidable desire from or reaction to basic physical reactions in the body.

It is instinct to pull your hand away from a hot stove because it causes pain to leave it there.

There is no instinct for men to want to make babies. That is a socialized desire. You are not born with any knowledge about babies or sex. That means that you could not possibly have an urge to make babies from genetics. It is learned.


On Edit: Just for clarification, instinct CANNOT have anything to do with conscious thought. It is something that you do without any need for "reasoning".

[defendandprotect]

34. Men are NOT socialized to want babies . . .

least of all to care for them . . .

Agree . . . not conscious thought!

Again, women are certainly "socialized" to want babies.
There is also, IMO, genetic instinct which reminds women every once in a while
that they are losing the ability...

Males are not socialized to want babies --
and I'm talking about "making babies."

True when we get here we have no instructions telling us how we are to be cared for --
or what is ahead of us. Life is a learning path.

Parents do not usually teach young children about masturbation -- but they do find
it INSTINCTIVELY!!!

I see no males volunteering that they have had deep secret desires to create a child --
so we'll see how all of our ideas play out in future.

[armyowalgreens]

35. I'm sensing some man-hate going on here and I don't like it.

We learn masturbation through interaction with our environment (i.e. a child touches his erection in a manner that it feels good and they continue it). It is not instinctual.

What is instinctual is to want pleasure. One way of obtaining pleasure is through masturbation. You learn ways to deal with the instincts.


I AM saying that men consciously have the desire to make babies and care for them. That is socialized. And that is why it's conscious. You have completely misunderstood my argument.

There is no instinct that "reminds" women of anything. That isn't how instinct works.

Both men and women gain the desire to have children and care for them through their environment. That means that it is not instinctual. It is learned. A person sees a mother or father caring for their infant and wants that pleasure. They may want to make the world a better place and so they gain the desire to raise a child that will help others.

You've never heard a male state his desire to have children or raise them? I'll be the first. I have the desire to have a child and raise that child.

You seriously need to start talking to more people. Specifically evolutionary biologists and men.

[defendandprotect]

36. Odd . .. I was sensing some female-hate going on here and I don't like it ---

I commented on something I had read --

Most of the world is turned upside down by patriarchy -- we know that.

it was an interesting observation by someone who seemed to have some insight into

the issue.

Life is about pleasure -- not pain. Which is also "up is down" re organized patriarchal teachings.

I kind of agree with you that we're each debating two different things --

Re masturbation, IMO, any male would tell you it would be impossible not to masturbate.

It is about more than "pleasure" -- it is an imperative.

Males have no control over their penises -- neither in regard to an erection which simply

occurs over night or in response to a female. It is beyond their control.

Again, I am saying to you that subconsciously males have a desire to procreate.

Not have sex -- but procreate.

And, indeed, any "socialization" of males to care for babies is recent.

Granted, we can say that evolution provides for a male/female pairing for up to

four years to provide for the human child. But that's not socialization.

Long gap of males not being involved at all in child care between those two periods.

I'm sure you've heard of women's "biological clock ticking" -- that is not just a

reminder from the calendar.

Mother's bonding with their child is in large part instinct.

You can see that, as well, in the animal kingdom.

Their instincts take them thru delivery and instinctive care.

You've never heard a male state his desire to have children or raise them? I'll be the first. I have the desire to have a child and raise that child.

What I was referring to was the fact that no one had joined our conversation to say that they

a buried desire to create a child. And I also said nothing about raising that child because

men, historically, have not been involved in raising children.



"Man-hate" . . .? I think we're close to the conversation being over . . .

if that's your misinterpretation --

Manwhile, I did somewhere in the middle of the post noted the username and

it brings back connections with fanatacism -- which seem to be being displayed

yet again in your responses to this conversation.


fini --

[MadMaddie]

11. I think you have to focus on this particular group of anti-abortion

right wing nuts. Many of these men have migrated from white right wing milita groups and moved into the anti-abortion movement. One of the things that they are obsessed about is their belief that the white race in America is under attack by minorities. Thus, abortions are killing the future of the white race. Now keep in mind they only care about the white abortions. The minority abortions.....not so much....


It is about power, racism and violence!!

[canetoad]

14. Good point

I think the principle is the same though. Base need to perpetuate their tribe.

[defendandprotect]

27. Also, patriarchy's own creation . . . organized patriarchal religion . . .

obviously tries to suppress birth control and abortion . . .

IN ITS OWN INTERESTS!!

Indeed, this very Pope we're talking about, visited the Italian Parliament a while back

telling them that they HAD TO MAKE ITALIAN WOMEN HAVE MORE BABIES!!!

Did he cite the nation's loneliness without new gurgling babies around?

Did he indicate concern for the families who may not be able to afford another child?

Did he suggest national day care -- or longer maternity leave for women?

No -- what he was talking about was the need for LABOR so that capitalism could expand!!!

Btw, capitalism is a creation of the Vatican -- it succeeded Feudalism when that became

insufficient to run their Papal lands!

We've only been suffering under capitalism a few hundred years!

[MadMaddie]

41. Good Points!!

[texastoast]

15. It's always, always about power

When women have control over when they get pregnant, they have choices and are not necessarily dependent.

That is what it is all about.

[Morrisons Ghost]

38. While there may be a segment of pro-lifers

For whom that is the motivator. They are not the majority. The pro-lifers I have talked to have told me that they truly believe that a human life is being taken! I have heard the same thing from both males and females alike in that movement. Btw the females have actually been the more vocal and passionate of the two sexes. The interesting thing is the people I have talked to have also been against the death penalty.

[ColbertWatcher]

19. No. It has to do with believing every damn thing that comes out of the TV.

You don't have to go too far to find an explanation for this kind of misguided violence.

[Occam Bandage]

20. I bet you would like a sociology or an anthropology class.

You'd learn many interesting things.

[defendandprotect]

21. Actually, it looks more like they're trying to kill every living female ....