Is the U.S. a plutocracy and is our government a puppet government?

[ZombieHorde]

Poll question: Is the U.S. a plutocracy and is our government a puppet government?

The silly responses in my polls are actually "Other".

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plutocracy">Dickshithairy.com
plu⋅toc⋅ra⋅cy
1.the rule or power of wealth or of the wealthy.
2.a government or state in which the wealthy class rules.
3.a class or group ruling, or exercising power or influence, by virtue of its wealth.
Origin:
1645–55; < Gk ploutokratía, equiv. to ploûto(s) wealth + -kratia -cracy

[depakid]

1. The US Senate is full of puppets, that's for sure.

if ever a body needed new blood (and a lot of it) this one does.

[dorkulon]

2. Why "Dickshithairy"?

:shrug:

[ZombieHorde]

4. When I was making the link to Dictionary.com, I remembered calling it 'dickshithairy' as a child.

I used it as the link for a giggle.

[Eric J in MN]

3. What's the difference between plutocracy-puppet vs. plutocracy-not-puppet? NT

NT

[ZombieHorde]

6. How bitter and jaded you are feeling. Kind of kidding.

Obama could have been chosen by the economic elites, but still have the freedom to rule as he deems.

or

Obama could have been chosen by the economic elites and have no real power concerning anything of interest to the economic elites.

[Eric J in MN]

16. It's not a matter of who chose Obama or if he has freedom-to-rule.

It's a structural issue: campaign donations of up to $28,500 (last cycle, now more) to the DNC and RNC. A system of legalized bribery with big bucks.

If people could donate a maximum of $100 to the DNC and RNC, then the rich wouldn't be as powerful.

[cali]

5. who are the puppeteers?

[ZombieHorde]

7. If the government is a puppet government, and we are a plutocracy,

then the puppeteers would be the economic elites.

This poll is based off of an article my wife read in her sociology book. She told me a little about it and I thought, "now there is a fun poll for DU."

[cali]

8. puppeteers is word that connotes organization and direct involvement

I don't actually think that rich people all get together and decide who to have in office and what they'll do. Let's face it, George Soros doesn't agree on much with Walton heirs. I do believe that corporations have far too much influence. We're not a pure plutocracy in which upward social mobility is extremely limited. If that were true, neither Bill Clinton or Barack Obama would have been elected and the people who made big bucks without connections during the nineties and the first few years of the ought decade, wouldn't have made it. A shrinking middle class and less educational opportunities could very well change that.

[ZombieHorde]

10. Was Bill Clinton not pro-corporation?

Barack Obama has given corporations lots and lots of money.

I don't actually think that rich people all get together and decide who to have in office and what they'll do.

We know they get together, the question is of influence. They live in the same neighborhoods, belong to the same golf clubs, and send their kids to the same schools.

[cali]

13. again, the classic definition of plutocracy is that it severely limits

upward mobilitly. Bill Clinton came from a lower class background and his success- getting into Georgetown and Yale Law was due to merit. And whether or not all wealthy folks belong to the same golf club, doesn't tell us if they get together and decide who should be President.

[ZombieHorde]

14. I did not claim that they got together to decide anything, I only stated that they did get together.

[JackRiddler]

9. Actually it is an oligarchy and the government is a part of the oligarchy.

Think of the government having seven branches but only three are officially the government. Three of the additional branches are labeled MONEY (Wall Street/Federal Reserve system), WAR (Pentagon/Military-Industrial/Intel Complex), and PROPAGANDA (Corporate Media, the "brainstem"). Another extends into the other branches and might be called PLANNING (the covert/elite policy making apparatus of think tanks, board rooms, country clubs, intel agency networks and conferences where consensus is forged).

All of the branches extend into a dark realm of covert action. There are 50 different power centers with 1000 tentacles who don't necessarily know what the others do.

However, the key 10,000 personnel for all these institutions, the power elite, either come from the ownership/ruling class (roughly, top 1/2 percent of household wealth) or are promoted by the ruling class. Typically the wealth of this portion (officially about 1/3 of everything) is actually understated because they have enormous incentives to offshore, show losses to evade taxes and roll over income to future years, also to convert their wealth into "charitable" foundations. Furthermore, they basically own controlling shares in the corporations (i.e., $10 billion in shares might mean control of $100 billion in assets).

Most of them grow up together in the same neighborhoods, go to the same universities, work with each other, attend the same clubs and churches, sit in the same boardrooms. This is the oligarchy. It's gone global and assimilates a couple of thousand newcomers in a generation.

Another way to think of it is this: capital is the state. Part of capital is officially labeled the state but most of it is not, although it all rules, effectively. Authorities are divided among many institutions but power is concentrated in the smallest number of people.

[ZombieHorde]

11. Perhaps we are a hodge-podge government.

Some oligarchy, some plutocracy, and some democracy.

[liberal N proud]

12. Our government is not as much puppet as it is just bought and paid for

as the need arises.

Case by case congress people bribed or threatened to achieve the desired outcome.

[JackRiddler]

15. Yes, this is the better metaphor - not a puppet but a self-service shop for moneyed interests.

There are also points of consensus regardless of who pays what, like that "national security" perpetually faces some kind of future threat that demands trillions in Pentagon spending, or that the "free market" is a miracle responsible for all good things and profoundly efficient. Or that the rich are wonderful people who give us everything! But these are matters of ideological faith and (self-) conditioning from childhood on, as well as of "puppet action."