Unimaginable Horror In Tehran Today

[Captain_Nemo]

Be forewarned, there is a photo on this page that is very graphic.

http://threatswatch.org/rapidrecon/2009/06/unimaginable-horror-in-tehran/

Iran has executed its Tiananmen Square. Baharestan Square has become synonymous with barbarity, cruelty, massacre and inhumanity.

An Iranian blogger (whose URL I will not publish) live blogging from Baharestan Square in central Tehran today captures but brief glimpses of the unimaginable horror that took place today. Bus loads of protesters were stopped and unloaded from their buses by "black-clad police" and literally herded. When the massing was sufficient, as the barely controllably distraught Tehran caller to CNN described first hand, hundreds of the regime's Basij thugs poured out of an adjoining mosque and commenced a massacre with axes, clubs, guns and gas.

From the live blogger's eyewitness account:

>More than 10.000 Bassij Milittias get position in Central Tehran, including Baharestan Sq.
>Army Helycopters flying over Baharestan and Vali Asr Sq.
>The streets, squares and around BAHARESTAN (Approx. South-eastern of Tehran) is swarming with military forces, civilian forces, the security motorists
>The croud have moved to the south of baharestan, the situation is bad, the shooting has started
>In Baharestan Sq. in the Police shooting, A girl is shot and the police is not allowing to let them help
>In Baharestan we saw militia with axe choping people like meat - blood everywhere - like butcher

This is the Iranian regime, wading into its own unarmed people and axing them to death, bludgeoning women (seen as the greatest threat to the regime) and throwing them to their deaths from pedestrian bridges. The same Iranian regime whose embassy officials are invited to American embassies around the world to celebrate on July 4th, of all things, a successful revolution.

[Stephanie]

1. Obama rescinded that invitation

Thanks for posting this.

Invitation Rescinded:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8494300

[rug]

26. That was bold.

[AngryAmish]

27. That really showed them

No ding dongs or mud pie for them!

[Greyhound]

2. Happy to get this to the Greatest Page, especially through all the Sanford crapola.

Another of the Idiot Frat Boy's legacies is our utter inability to do anything about this, even if the will to do so existed.

Just heart rending.
:kick: & R

[drmeow]

20. Part of our inability to respond

predates frat boy - Eisenhower specifically and the American/British coup. I HATE oil.

[NYC_SKP]

3. I saw that earlier today, let me repeat, "GRAPHIC BLOODY HATCHET PICTURE in this link."

I know you mention it, I hope you don't mind the reminder.

Somewhere in the comments section a poster complains that the picture is five days old.

It doesn't matter to me, it's all the same awful carnage.

I'd thought about posting an OP, I'm glad you did.

Recommended.

[WillyT]

4. And Yet Some Refuse To Believe...

that that kind of butchery is possible.

:shrug:

[bertman]

5. It's not that many of us don't believe that kind of butchery is possible. It's the juxtaposition

of the events of June 24th with pictures from five days ago when the OP is repeating messages from the square of atrocities committed on the 24th.

[WillyT]

6. I Understand...

I have read stuff online, or seen things reported on TV that were SMS'd days before. Maybe some of the info is delayed in an attempt to confirm it, or maybe it's just an indiscriminate wave of information everybody is forced to sift through, and decide for themselves what they will believe.

We are definitely into new terrritory here.

:shrug:

:hi:

[bertman]

7. I agree with you on the new territory, WillyT. I wish I knew how to "verify" this stuff.

:hi: back atcha, dude.

[NashVegas]

8. This Is Shocking. It's a Good Thing US Troops Are Pulling Out of Iraq's Cities 6/30

We should send them over the border to help stabilize Iran, now!

Just think of the women of Iran, who are doing so much of the work in this revolution!



























:sarcasm:

[el_bryanto]

9. Hmmmmmm. I'm not sure how to take this response

Are you saying the pictures are a fake?

Or are you saying that drawing attention to the pictures is an argument in favor of invading Iran?

Or are you just doing your thing?

Bryant

[PVnRT]

11. NV, along with some others, are convinced this is some CIA-PNAC astroturf

It's all being staged to get a new Shah in Iran so we can get oil, etc. They refuse to believe there can be organic opposition to a regime that did not like Bush, since we all know enemies of Bush = good no matter what.

[NashVegas]

12. Sure. Yup.

You know exactly what I think. How did you manage?

[el_bryanto]

13. You could take this opportunity to explain your position; I, for one, would be curious. n/t

[NashVegas]

15. My Position Is With the Facts

The election results in Iran may reflect the will of the Iranian people. Many experts are claiming that the margin of victory of incumbent President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was the result of fraud or manipulation, but our nationwide public opinion survey of Iranians three weeks before the vote showed Ahmadinejad leading by a more than 2 to 1 margin -- greater than his actual apparent margin of victory in Friday's election.

While Western news reports from Tehran in the days leading up to the voting portrayed an Iranian public enthusiastic about Ahmadinejad's principal opponent, Mir Hossein Mousavi, our scientific sampling from across all 30 of Iran's provinces showed Ahmadinejad well ahead.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/14/AR2009061401757.html

Here's the independent data:

At the stage of the campaign for President when our poll was taken, 34 percent of Iranians surveyed said they will vote for incumbent President Ahmadinejad. Mr. Ahmadinejad’s closest rival, Mir Hussein Moussavi, was the choice of 14 percent,
with 27 percent stating that they still do not know who they will vote for. President Ahmadinejad’s other rivals, Mehdi Karroubi and Mohsen Rezai, were the choice of 2 percent and 1 percent, respectively.

http://www.terrorfreetomorrow.org/upimagestft/TFT%20Iran%20Survey%20Report%200609.pdf
All it would have taken was just over 1/2 of the undecideds to go Ahmawhateverthefuck's way.


I also like this conjecture:

I will pay $10,000 to the first person or organization that presents a coherent story for how the Iranian election was stolen that is consistent with knowable facts about the Iranian election process as it took place on June 12-13 and the information that has been published since, including the ballot box tallies that have been published on the web by the Iranian government.

In order to collect the reward, you don't have to prove your case beyond a shadow of a doubt. But your numbers have to add up. To collect your reward, it's not sufficient to cite press reports or anecdotal evidence of election irregularities, or to claim as authority Western commentators or NGOs who have not themselves put together a coherent story. To collect your reward, your story has to tell how on June 12, a majority of Iranian voters voted for other candidates besides Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, yet this was transformed by the Iranian election authorities into a majority for Ahmadinejad.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/25/746671/-$10,000-Reward:-Show-How-the-Iranian-Election-Was-Stolen

You want to stand with the protesters, be my guest. You want to take part in a blatant propaganda campaign, don't cry when someone points out to you and others where it's going.

[el_bryanto]

17. OK.

You do believe the protesters to be part of a "blatant propaganda campaign" to, presumably, invade Iran?

If memory serves wasn't Juan Cole one of the first to challenge these election results?

Bryant

[NashVegas]

25. Er, No

I believe the information that's being passed around on Twitter and message boards is part of a blatant propaganda campaign.

[Bryan Sacks]

33. the problem is lumping "the protestors" together

Obviously there is a great deal of genuine democratic sentiment being expressed, but just as surely there is also propaganda at work.

http://www.counterpunch.org/bratich06222009.html

Note the phrase: "Genetically Modified Grassroots Organizing"

[Bryan Sacks]

42. some well-documented context for the propaganda claim

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2009/06/23/has-the-u-s-played-a-role-in-fomenting-unrest-during-irans-election/

[el_bryanto]

43. Not very convincing I'm afraid

Or, to put it more clearly, it doesn't convince me that such sentiment is imposed by the United States; rather I think some people in Iran are legitimately upset with the Government of Iran.

Bryant

[Bryan Sacks]

45. It's perfectly convincing, as it nails the case down.

You ignored the evidence. Look at the silly statement you just made:

"rather I think some people in Iran are legitimately upset with the Government of Iran."

Wow. Jeez, who would have thunk that some people in a corrupt theocracy would be "legitimately upset" with the government? In what country would you NOT find people upset with the government?

[el_bryanto]

46. Hmmmmm.

OK well what is the implication of the evidence presented?

Is it that the current protests in Iran are the work of the United States or isn't it?

Bryant

[Bryan Sacks]

49. The implication is that both are true

Fomenting unrest is not something any entity can completely control. Events have a way of overtaking any pot-stirring or initial orchestration. And as I said before, there is ample reason to protest the Iranian government on a number of fronts, and I have no doubt much of the outpouring is entirely genuine.

But the article makes clear that there has been an orchestrated effort to sow discord in Iran for several years - including a willingness to work with a group that appears on the US list of terrorist organizations. So the propaganda is mixed in with the genuine.

[county worker]

22. The fact is that Ahmadinejad was announced the winner before the votes were counted.

If the majority wanted Ahmadinejad to win, what was the motivating factor that drove so many people into the streets? The demonstrations were spontaneous in the beginning. No one could have gotten that many people into the streets that fast. There could be no other motivation for the demonstrations other than the people felt that this election would lead to a better way of life for them and that opportunity was taken away.

[JackRiddler]

34. Mousavi declared himself the winner hours before the government said otherwise...

He claimed to have 2/3 of the vote. On what basis did he do that, before barely any votes could have been counted? Do you think there is a cause and effect operating between that and the government's rapid calling of the election? What if Mousavi was wrong? Wouldn't his supporters still believe there was fraud?

There is no doubt millions of people in Iran are fighting for greater freedom. That doesn't guarantee they had the majority of the vote on June 12, however.

[tiny elvis]

40. What if you found out

that everything you wrote is wrong? What would you think?

June 7, 2009
Mesbah Yazdi's religious order (Fatwa) to Interior Ministry to permit electoral fraud to be revealed

June 9, 2009
The head of the political office of the Revolutionary Guard Corps accusing Mousavi of starting a velvet revolution and declaring they will extinguish it at root: "Using a specific color for the first time in the elections is a sign of starting a velvet revoluion". Mousavi has been using the color green, which signifies that he's a descendant of Muhammad the prophet.
Election monitoring committee of Mousavi and Karroubi warns of electoral fraud

June 10, 2009
Ahmadinejad is given more than 15 minutes of airtime on state-run TV while the other candidates receive less than 2. In his closing remarks he points out things that no one knew why he is bringing up at that point or what exactly he means:
"I like to add this too, we have accurate information that they believe that they have lost ground, and that people have claimed the ground, and they have lost the game, and they are looking for imposing a conflict. I ask people to stay calm."

June 11, 2009
Text messaging is blocked in Tehran

June 12, 2009
08:00 Voting starts

08:13 Khamenei casts ballot and warns of possible disturbances
.Rafsanjani's wife casts ballot and urges people to take to streets in case of fraud
.Reports of ballot shortages preventing people from voting in many stations, although the Interior Ministry printed more than 57 million

20:06 Extension of voting hours till 21:00, and again to 22:00

20:57 Karroubi campaigns reports of 33 incidents of electoral fraud in various provinces

17:00 News of police maneuvers in Tehran

18:30 Plain-cloth agents attack one of Mousavi's campaign offices in northern Tehran

19:05 Head of Mousavi's election monitoring committee writes to Interior Ministry and warns of electoral fraud

21:10 Access to Mowj.ir (one of Mousavi's campaigning websites) is blocked in Iran

22:00 Polls close
.High voter turnout reported
.Saturday and Sunday university exams are postponed indefinitely

23:20 Mousavi claims victory in a press conference
.According to CBS, Ahmadinejad also claimed victory

http://lotfan.org

That is a pro reformist web page, naively documenting the preparation for revolt.
Did you know that the 'revolution' color was chosen before the election? Why did universities postpone exams as soon as the polls closed? Who told you the revolt was spontaneous? Who has been telling you the opposite of truth?

[NashVegas]

16. dupe

[AntiFascist]

21. If only the world were so black and white, then people's motives would be so clear...

obviously there is a major popular uprising against the oppressive theocratic regime in Iraq, who would doubt that? The question is whether or not the US military should get or be involved, either overtly or covertly. I say we should allow the regime to collapse on its own.

[sufrommich]

10. We must not acknowledge the atrocities in Iran .

Bush might invade! (that's how stupid your post appears).

[Junkdrawer]

14. I agree that what's happening in Iran is horrible...but ThreatsWatch.org...

seems to have an odd agenda...

Cognitive Dissonance
Can You Explain $900M To Rebuild Hamas' Home Turf While Pakistan Ops Are Short Funding?

What on Earth is the administration doing announcing plans to give $900 Million in aid to rebuild Hamas' Gaza Strip while our own Defense Department's Security Development Plan for the Federally Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan "faces a shortfall of approximately $167.5 million, about 73 percent of its funding goal for fiscal year 2009," according to a GAO report?

Did we not just witness the American president heading up a "Fiscal Responsibility Summit"? With fiscal responsibility in such high demand, one must forget entirely the nearly $1 trillion in irresponsibly distributed 'stimulus' already signed into commitment and the half-trillion dollar supplemental spending bill being presented this week. In a less than three week span, the two spending packages together would instantly represent a more than 10% increase in the national debt accrued over this nation's entire history. Yet when it comes to Defense and National Security, seemingly the only budgets eyed for any significant spending cuts, critical operations and initiatives expect to be short changed and starved of funds.

The Department of Defense's Security Development Plan for the Federally Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan, like the administration's $900 million Gaza aid plan, is directed at the heart of a terrorist haven. But the DoD initiative is directed at curtailing and/or cutting off terrorists from narcotics funding and undermining their stranglehold on and, to the degree that it exists, popular support of the local populations there. An alternative.

The Administration's Gaza reconstruction gift contains none of these counterterrorism dynamics. Not a one. There is but one ultimate distributor in Gaza: Hamas. The Obama administration can claim that "the aid would not go to Hamas but that it would be funneled through nongovernmental organizations," but the fact of the matter remains that the Hamas terrorist organization that dominates Gaza stands to gain from every penny. It most certainly will not be hindered. That equation is nowhere in the calculus.

...

http://threatswatch.org/commentary/2009/02/cognitive-dissonance/

[krkaufman]

30. Yeah, I'm not in line w/ Mr Threat Watch's doctrine.

The Iran situation is f**ked, but I still think Obama's handled it well, up to now. The big question is, what's next; what can the US & Int'l community now do to put pressure on the regime?

[hay rick]

32. Nothing odd about their agenda.

It's the old PNAC/neo-con agenda: pump up the paranoia.

I'm sure bad things are happening in Iran but "ThreatsWatch" strikes me as a less than disinterested party. For example, co-founder Steve Schippert also contributes to National Review Online and The Daily Standard...http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Steve_Schippert

[woo me with science]

18. K & R nt

[lisa85]

19. horrible n/t

[bc3000]

29. Indeed, and all the news stations on my TV are showing Michael Jackson

[Strong Atheist]

44. Belated Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[derby378]

23. Some words from Thomas Jefferson that the Iranian people would do well to heed

The spirit of the times may alter, will alter. Our rulers will become corrupt, our people careless. A single zealot may become persecutor, and better men be his victims. It can never be too often repeated that the time for fixing every essential right, on a legal basis, is while our rulers are honest, ourselves united. From the conclusion of this war we shall be going downhill. It will not then be necessary to resort every moment to the people for support. They will be forgotten, therefore, and their rights disregarded. They will forget themselves in the sole faculty of making money, and will never think of uniting to effect a due respect for their rights. The shackles, therefore, which shall not be knocked off at the conclusion of this war, will be heavier and heavier, till our rights shall revive or expire in a convulsion...

Societies exist under three forms, sufficiently distinguishable. 1. Without government, as among our Indians. 2. Under government wherein the will of every one has a just influence; as is the case in England in a slight degree, and in our States in a great one. 3. Under government of force, as is the case in all other monarchies, and in most of the other republics. To have an idea of the curse of existence in these last, they must be seen. It is a government of wolves over sheep. It is a problem not clear in my mind that the first condition is not the best. But I believe it to be inconsistent with any great degree of population. The second state has a great deal of good in it...It has its evils too, the principal of which is the turbulence to which it is subject...But even this evil is productive of good. It prevents the degeneracy of government, and nourishes a general attention to public affairs. I hold that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing...

What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that the people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take up arms...The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. from the tweet, the streets are calm today

nobody is buying a thing

Bear in mind this is the weekend.

But the call for the national strike may be ongoing

And this is the same play book that was used in '79

This will take a while

[dana_b]

28. thank God

they need a calm day. I don't know if we'll ever now the extent of what is really happening since very little news is getting out.

[LatteLibertine]

31. I wish them well

and I hope they are still around when we make it through the MJ death news cycle.

[OwnedByFerrets]

35. An honest question. What can we (Amerians) do at this point?

[Autonomy]

36. Thanks for this

I am all for mourning celebrity deaths, but we can't take our eyes off the ball... and Iran is the biggest ball right now.

[InfiniteThoughts]

37. dance in the street ...

dance in the street, you dunces but your end is near ... the sound that you refuse to hear is the sound of the judgment that is coming very soon ...

to the mullahs ... till a week back, i was willing to give you a fig leaf amount of latitude. Maybe the rural masses did vote in favor of Ahmadinator ... but whatever doubts of rigging have been washed away in Neda's death and these cold-blooded murders.... mullahs., you are going to rot in hell after you die and you still have a long way to get that comfort. the public is going to overthrow you and then subject to human rights abuse charges in court...

green revolution in Iran., here you go ..

[caseymoz]

38. Horrible, just sub-human, but be fair-- Obama said those words BEFORE this happened.

I assure you, he'll say and do different things now.

Drop the fucking bullshit on a conservative-republican board before you come here for intelligent discussion.

Remember in 2005 Bush told Iranians how they should vote and what happened there? They got stuck with Ahmadenijad. The only reason why there have been these protests is because Obama managed to remove the threat of the US that gave that regime it the excuse for its extremism. That worked. Now . . . other words and deeds would be appropriate. What deeds? What the hell can we do? Invade Iran like Cheney wanted to do? We have to try our torturers before we try their butchers.

Don't be a Republican. You can't hold Obama responsible before the fact. Especially when, before this fact, the belicose words would have probably caused the protests to crumble. The second last thing the opposition needed was for the United States to say, "we're behind you." Of course, the first last thing was this huge massacre, but that was out of our control.

Nor could you blame him before the fact for inviting Iran's ambassadors to the 4th of July celebration-- again before the fact.

Don't come to this board and infect us with how Obama's lack of "toughness" was a factor with this. It's fucking bullshit. And don't tell us that his being open to engagement with the regime shows naivete. No, it showed a will toward peace. The Iranian government has made that all but impossible now.

Unless you think Obama incited the Iranian government to turn barbaric with his peaceful words? Yes, just the way Bill O'Reilly using peaceful words incited Roeder to shoot Dr. Tiller. Oh, wait . . .

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

39. Hopefully their deaths are not in vain

If true, this kind of murder will be widely known throughout the country. You can't suppress this kind of information by merely controlling the news. Those people probably have friends and relatives who might have supported the regime, but this type of action has got to change a lot of minds. I think there have to be many police and military who object to this. I think this is the worst thing the regime could do to itself and it can only backfire, maybe resulting in a military coup d'etat. If things reach the tipping point, however, there's going to be a whole lot more dying.

[progdonkey]

41. Nice to see people getting suckered by Neocons again...

You think they give a shit about these people? They want Obama to get involved because they DON'T want the protests to be successful. They need a brutal, oppressive regime in Iran because they (the neocons) are brutal, oppressive people. They're so terrified of an Iran that is viewed by Americans as a country of peaceful, freedom-loving people living under the boot of an oppressive regime that they're resorting to calling Obama everything short of a "pussified girly-man," (even Miss Lindsey Graham had the nerve to call him "weak and timid") hoping to goad him into doing something stupid.

The author admits the image is from Saturday--four days before this "massacre"--but puts it next to the phone call with the Iranian woman to imply they're from the same event. Not at all dissimilar to "Saddam Hussein harbors terrorists, just like the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11." ("But we never said Saddam was behind 9/11; where did you ever get that idea?")

I'm not denying that horrible stuff is occurring there, but don't help someone who writes for the National Review, Weekly Standard and FrontPage Magazine by giving him credibility.

[liberalhistorian]

47. Who cares? Michael Jackson is soooooooooo

much more important now, get with the program!!!!

It makes me sick that the ridiculous overhyped hype over that talentless freakazoid is taking up all the damned news, pushing aside the real, truly important news.

[ecstatic]

48. stop spreading your bile. Why are you so bitter? nt