If Sanford were a politician in France, Spain, Italy, or Sweden...?

[kentuck]

Would he be vilified in the same way as he is as a politician in America?

Or do we have the Puritan ethics in our DNA? A mistress in America can destroy your life and your future. A mistress in another country might be something else entirely? In fact, it might even be a bonus to have a beautiful mistress on the side.

Is it a sociological question? Is our society formed in such a different way than the society of other civilized countries? We have to hide our feelings for others while others do not seem to have that need. Our institution of marriage seems to be a part of our society that strictly forbids love to be shared with more than one person at a time? Is that good or bad?

Just something to chew on this morning... :-)

[camera obscura]

1. Would he be rattling on about the "sanctity of marriage" over there?

[kentuck]

2. It might not sell over there politically..

as it does in Christian America?

[mikeytherat]

3. His affair would be more open, and most people wouldn't care.

Remember: it's not so much the "crime" as the coverup. And any pol, anywhere, who went to Sanford-level bizarro lengths to conceal his affair would likely receive similar treatment.

mikey_the_rat

[kentuck]

4. Our society requires such affairs to be concealed...

Our society is different.

[cali]

5. If he was a fundy xian politician, publically spewing his hypocritical cant? Yeah,

he'd probably be mocked and vilified. You would have done better to use someone like Spitzer as an example.

[kentuck]

10. But I don't think a fundy xian politician would be as successful...?

in other countries? That is my point. Our society is brain-washed Puritans.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

6. Depends if said politician in France, Spain or Italy declared themselves a member of the Party of

Family Values and was a huge hypocrite during the impeachment of Bill Clinton.

[Psychic Consortium]

7. This is not about sex. It is about hypocrisy, bad judgment, dereliction of duty.

Fair issues to address when a man wishes to be president.

He is clearly not ready for prime time.

[rurallib]

18. EXACTLY - he is the governor and has some duties that must

be handed off if he is vacationing etc. Such as control of the National Guard in case of riot or say a gargantuan forest fire.
Plus - is he skimming state money to have an affair?

[Psychic Consortium]

21. Yes indeed. What does it mean to be a responsible public servant?

And does this man exemplify the traits needed for good leadership?

[endarkenment]

8. And acted like an absolute loon?

Yes of course he would be the subject of 24/7 ridicule. Berlusconi is currently getting the treatment in the European press for his pecker-clown activities.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

9. The real issue isn't the mistress

although it's true that in the U.S., having one is generally considered inappropriate for an elected official. The problem with guys like Sanford is that they bloviate all day about "family values" and "the sanctity of marriage," all the while doing the horizontal tango with someone outside their sanctified marriage. And maybe on top of that they are disappearing from work, neglecting their duties and using government funds to visit said mistress in a foreign country. Or maybe they are paying hush money to the mistress' husband. Or maybe they are getting arrested in airport mens' rooms or sending sleazy e-mails to underage boys or cavorting in diapers with hookers. In France, Spain, Italy and Sweden they just have mistresses; they don't seem to be hypocritical and sleazy about it.

[Ganja Ninja]

11. Depends.

Would he belong to a party that calls itself the "moral majority"?
Would he and the members of his party go around thumping their chest about "family values"?
Would they hold themselves out as the morally superior choice over their opponents?
If he insists that others don't meet his standards and then is exposed as being unable to meet them himself shouldn't he be held accountable?

[get the red out]

12. Religiosity doesn't win elections in Europe

I think this has more to do with the fact that the right wing likes to demonize others using the extremist form of Christianity that their base adheres to, but their politicians show the exact same weaknesses as any other human. It really angers people to have these misogynist, homophobic white males who brag about their ubber-Christian Bible studies screw around and it is just supposed to be ok, they can be "human" but other people can't.

The Republican Party stands on intolerance, racism, and misogyny posing as Christianity. That wouldn't sell in Europe so we wouldn't have this same circumstance occur.

I don't care who these guys screw, but they are willing to hang other people out to dry, like Bill Clinton for the same things they do; and their media mouthpieces even promote violence against other people they disagree with, like physicians in women's health clinics. If Europe had to deal with dangerous hypocrites like our Republicans, as a major political force, I am sure they would be more than happy to see their dirty laundry laid out also.

[Malikshah]

13. If he'd disappeared for 5 days and went on trips to his mistresse's country funded by

tax payers...not sure.....

[tocqueville]

14. this is a US issue

because Europe doesn't have that kind of politicians. And if we have, they are belonging exotic minorities.
The question isn't so much about having a mistress, the question is about double standards in this case.

But if a "normal" French politician would be "caught" having a mistress, this wouldn't result in headlines. On the contrary it could result in a lawsuit for defamation or infringing of privacy from the politician. This was recently the case with Ségolène Royal, photographied with a "friend" (btw she isn't even married). She won, even if the penalties were symbolic.

[kentuck]

15. Thanks for helping to clarify my main point...

It is a part of American society. In my opinion, America is a nation born of New England Puritan values, which at one time were "witch hunters"...

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. You are quite correct

I would add that besides having the bedrock of Puritanism, we have overlays of various fundamentalist factions that have drifted to our shores. Too bad we don't learn from history--the 1692 debacle in Salem, where the clerics were really trying to wrest hold of the political power in the Bay Colony, ended up in the clerics losing power--and, I would say, credibility. Kindly remember that the Puritan church evolved into the Congregational and also the Unitarian churches, both of which downplay the role and power of ministers and both of which tend to be more open and liberal in their values than the fundamentalist churches of today.

[kentuck]

24. I am no sociologist but your point is right on target, imo...

and plays a huge role in how we think about Governor Sanford the way we do. It is the religious undertones in all of our society, including the posts on this very thread...

[Kalyke]

16. I have no problem with the public shunning of a cheater.

If men (and sometimes women) want to ruin their wives' lives and the lives of their kids, then they should be shunned.

It's not necessarily religious to think that one should honor commitments.

[Fumesucker]

19. It isn't just "sometimes" women..

It's almost as often as men.

And just as destructive of relationships, kids and so forth.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

17. The affair would be shrugged off

but not the dereliction of duty, which to my mind is the crux of the matter. In fact, I'd say that him just disappearing like he did would be more inexcusable over there.

[kentuck]

20. That is probably true but...

would the secrecy and the concealment and the lies and the deceit be necessary "over there"?

[spanone]

23. it's the republican hypocrisy that they are somehow morally superior critters

[raccoon]

25. THAT IS NOT THE POINT. Point is he abandoned his post. He went AWOL

for 6 days and nobody knew where the fuck he was.

If he doesn't have the decency to resign, he should be impeached.

[kentuck]

28. I would not argue with that point..

My question is whether there is a part of our society that is maybe different from other parts of the world, that forces people into certain actions and behaviors because of deeply religious beliefs, such as fidelity in marriage, monogamous relationships, etc? We don't even realize the religious nature and requirements of marriage in our society.

[bullwinkle428]

26. SIMPLE ANSWER - Because politicians in Europe DO NOT

BEAT PEOPLE OVER THE HEAD WITH THE "FAMILY VALUES" LOUISVILLE SLUGGER ON A DAILY BASIS!

[TreasonousBastard]

27. Witness Silvio Berlusconi, who for years...

got away with his dalliances. It's only recently that things are getting completely out of hand and the public is getting tired of his escapades. And it took those teenaged girls to get is wife to divorce him.

For the moment I forget which French politician publically invited Juliette Binoche to be his mistress, and it caused nothing but amusement at his good taste and her good judgment for turning him dowwn.

Europeans have always understood that marriages are arranged and love has nothing to do with it. Love is reserved for your outside interests.

[southernyankeebelle]

29. YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT - SANFORD IS A DIRT BAG BECAUSE

HE CHEATED ON HIS WIFE AND LIKE MOST REPUBLICANS ARE RUNNING AROUND ASKING FOR PEOPLES VOTE BECAUSE THEY ARE FAMILY VALUE CANDADATES. THAT IS THE HYOCRITES OF IT ALL. THEY MAKE IT A POINT RUNNING ON FAMILY VALUES. NOW DON'T GET ME WRONG THE DEMOCRATS DO IT ALSO BUT THEY DON'T RUN AROUND RUNNING ON FAMILY VALUES. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE. THEY SAT THERE A BAD MOUTH CLINTON YET THEY DID THE VERY SAME THING. THEY WANTED CLINTON TO RESIGN, YET THEY HAVEN'T RESIGNED.

[kentuck]

30. Yep.

And what do you think of husbands that cheat on their wives??

[CanonRay]

31. People in those countries aren't stupid enough to ever elect him

South Carolina, however???

[Odin2005]

32. The archetype of the hypocritical moralist is universal.

If not sex it's something else.