Concerning anti Jackson Comments

[loyalkydem]

Many of us grew up with Michael Jackson. I was a child of the 80's myself and love his music. This arguably is a difficult time for the Jackson family. At the same time, I also know there are those who hate him because of the alleged crimes he committed against children and I remind people he was never found guilty of those crimes.

Regardless of whatever feelings you have against the man, try to put those aside and think of his family and his children and those of us who still respect and adore his music.

[The Straight Story]

1. was he ever convicted of anything?

Not that I can recall :shrug:

[960]

14. Was Bush? Rove? Cheney? They're innocent too then!

Conviction and guilt are not the same thing

[adamuu]

19. were YOU? n/t

[The Straight Story]

25. Did they have a trial? Must have missed

:)

[960]

26. That's the point... people do horrible things & aren't even CHARGED

So to say that Michael is innocent because he wasn't convicted is just bizarre.

[redqueen]

31. How about we just consider that the man has died.

And not choose this moment to focus on the few bad things he allegedly did.

He may have done them, he may not have. Whether he did or not, he had a tragic life and now he's gone.

[960]

33. RIP Michael. And peace to his victims.

[Codeine]

45. Nope.

I'll focus on the bad things he's done just like I'll focus on the bad that Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld did when they die.

Everyone dies. That does not afford one immediate and unconditional respect.

[HughMoran]

97. Linking Michael Jackson to Dick Cheney is a special trick though

:yoiks:

[Dramarama]

55. Juries can be wrong

Unless Troy Davis s really guilty too,
Cant have it both ways

[sam kane]

105. sleeping alone with a child

means there ain't gonna be a lot of "evidence." Obviously, though, the kid is lying.

He loves children. That's why he names them all Michael.

[konnichi wa]

2. His CHILDREN?????

You are shitting us, right?

[Bucky]

10. Did you not know he had children?

Or are you suggesting that you don't think they'll feel bad about him being dead?

[konnichi wa]

22. He has genetic offspring. I have no idea what they think.

I'm just glad the sonofabitch is dead.

[eShirl]

they are, in fact, human children

[MichaelHarris]

60. The vast

wealth of knowledge konnichi wa doesn't have could fill the oceans of the world.

[pnwmom]

86. In the long run, I hope they will be better off IF they can

live normal lives, possibly with the mother of the older two.

[WeDidIt]

96. Genetically, they are not his.

His sperm was not used in the conception of those kids.

[EOTE]

118. And you know this how? NT

[babythunder]

119. For a guy that

hates Michael Jackson it's kind of bizarre how you have spent a great deal of time; since his death going to every single Michael Jackson to trash him? Maybe just maybe you need to do something a little more productive with your time.

[parasim]

3. Totally agree. nt

[Name removed]

4. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sandnsea]

5. Ditto n/t

[madmax]

6. Well said

he was never covicted of any of the charges.

[blonndee]

7. I'm with you all the way, loyalkydem.

Thanks for saying this.

[Lancer]

15. Ditto. Thanks.

[Mrs. Overall]

8. Yep. I grew up in the 70's and I'm sad about it. My two teenage kids are bit upset, too.

[marmar]

9. The grave-pissing started before the death rumors even started circulating.....

...... sometimes DU can make the FreeRepublic look classy.

[loyalkydem]

16. That's why I said

What I said because some people can't get over the fact that he was found not guilty. He'll always be guilty in the eyes of some. Michael Jackson has a huge fan base weather you agree with him or not. He was an important icon of my childhood.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

11. As an entertainer,

he was tops. No one better. Immensely talented.

As a human being, he is a dangerous, damaged individual who did harm to small children, and who somehow got his hands on a trio of children, claiming they were his (yeah, sure), and used whatever money he had left to indulge a lifestyle that was anything but normal and that could not have been healthy for those poor kids.

My best hope is that the children will now be taken care of by people who can properly care for them and that they can grow up to be strong and happy people....................................

[RaleighNCDUer]

41. As a human being he was an extremely rich individual who was accused,

many times, of doing harm to small children, who for the sake of his career gave the accusers large amounts of money to go away. The last time he was so accused he refused to play, so they went all the way and took him to court - where they lost.

There is no proof, and never has been proof, that he was ever guilty of being anything other than a very wealthy eccentric.

It might be noted that after the court case, where he publicly stood up to his accusers, the accusations stopped - he was no longer a viable target.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

58. He stopped -

After the trial, he quit inviting children to visit him and to stay over at his house.

That's what happened..................

[inna]

46. why do you think that they are not his kids?

how do you know he did harm to small children?

what evidence do you have to suggest that he was not a good father?


:shrug:

all sincere questions, i hope you will answer them since it is A LOT that you're accusing him of.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

63. Well, the fact that he

paid $15 million dollars to a young boy who threatened to tell the world what Michael Jackson had done to him. That's a pretty good sign that he was buying silence, as far as I'm concerned.

And a good father doesn't keep running around the world, keeping his children in a constant state of flux and upheaval. A good father doesn't dangle an infant over a hotel balcony railing. A good father doesn't parade his children in public with masks over their faces, making them freaks.

If you have children, you know how important stability and constancy are to them. Jackson gave those poor kids none of that ..........

[RaleighNCDUer]

74. Never mind that the payoff could have been to prevent damage to

his career - after all, the accusation alone is enough to destroy somebody in the public eye.

As for 'good father' - if the father is on the road 200 days out of the year, maybe a good father takes his kids with him so they can grow up knowing him as something more than a tabloid photo.

And the masks - such as HE was wearing because of his plastic surgery - you are SO sure his kids didn't say "Can I have one too? We can ALL wear masks!" You can't be sure, because YOU only know him as a tabloid picture.

Constancy - maybe just being there is constancy, in this case.

Why are ALL your assumptions negative?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

79. On the road 200 days a year?

But he wasn't performing.

So?

My information - not assumptions - is factual. Does it seem negative to you?

Gee.................................

[RaleighNCDUer]

90. So you are saying you were one of the kids?

If you weren't, you DON'T know. You are assuming.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

91. Yes, you've caught me -

I am one of Michael Jackson's "children."

You're good...................

[roguevalley]

116. nt

[Deep13]

12. With all due respect, nothing I think will affect his family at all.

And the failure to convict him doesn't make him innocent. His was classic sex-abuse grooming behavior writ large. Sorry, but everyone dies and I can't pretend to feel sorry for a child molester who bought his way out of trouble.

[Ikonoklast]

34. Correct answer.

Massively flawed entertainer; if he had no talent or money he'd have died in prison.

[RaleighNCDUer]

50. And the fact that the first such charges ever made against him was

during the height of the "child sex offender" hysteria that put any number of innocent day care providers in prison is, I'm sure, just a coincidence.

[Deep13]

70. Probably.

And thanks for marginalizing all the actual victims who were also suffering at that time. He lived at an amusement park, he hung around with children, he slept (literally) with them. He paid off ones that had complaints. There are numerous reports of molestation. Granted, a rich person is a lawsuit magnet, yet most other rich entertainers don't get prosecuted for molestation. And as a point of fact, children don't make that kind of shit up. If anything they will hide molestation so that the offender doesn't get into trouble.

I can't prove it here at the computer of course, but to suggest he was innocent just because he was never actually caught is pretty naive.

[RaleighNCDUer]

87. For one thing, the children didn't make it up - their parents did.

And I have no doubt that in a few year, maybe sooner, now that he's gone, there will be any number of those kids who are going to step up and say "It was a put up job - he never did a thing."

Have you EVER heard of a child molester who did not attempt to hide his proclivities? Do you think that if he was a molester, he would have confined himself to a scarce few of the HUNDREDS of kids he had come to the ranch? That he would have been SO blatant about the invitations and the sleepovers if he was doing anything more than what he said?

He was a little strange, but he was not an idiot.

[Deep13]

102. To get back to my response to the OP...

...I am merely stating that I really can't feel sorry about this. I certainly did not wish him harm, but people die all the time.

I have no idea what kind of man Jackson was personally, but idiots do exist and even smart people can think they have everyone fooled when they don't.

[inna]

107. i agree.

Michael was definitely as eccentric as they come, but that does NOT make him a child molester.

i just know it in my heart - i wish i had a better way of "documenting the evidence", or something - but i absolutely KNOW that MJ is NOT an evil man.

(and i'm not even a fan of his.)

[pnwmom]

88. He acknowledged sleeping with children. That's inappropriate enough for me. n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

117. I sleep with my cat.

That doesn't mean I'm into bestiality.

Oh, and it's much younger than I, also.

[Uzybone]

13. Well said

I did heinous things in his life, but he was more than that. Everyone I know grew up with MJ and still love his music. He was (is) a genius.

[azmouse]

17. You're absolutely right.

Yes, Jackson was an odd person but he was never convicted of any wrong doing.

Everyone should let him go in peace.

[redqueen]

18. Thank you.

[hfojvt]

20. yew make it sound so simple

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLxqsZHgAmk

[Blue_Roses]

21. exactly...

his music brings back memories of a time when I was young with no worries...

[hlthe2b]

23. I agree...

It saddens me greatly, as it would with any highly talented individual who never are able to get past the traumas in their life. Wasted opportunities and potential is a very sad situation.

'just got the word via LAT that Jackson has died. I am extremely saddened. He was my age. This truly hits home, no matter how flawed he might have been... RIP, Michael...

[Dramarama]

24. Yes people are always wrongfully guilty

never wrongfully innocent.

[CatWoman]

27. thank you for this thread

[Catherine Vincent]

28. I agree. nt

[glowing]

29. Guess what? He's just not important other than a blurb. Farah died, Michael died, and I'm assuming

another famous person may kick the bucket as well.. they always happen in 3's. Get a grip. He got healthcare, many do not have that option. They pulled Ed Shutlz for this?

[DrDan]

42. Ed McMahon

[Huskerchub]

53. MJ was #3

Ed Mcmann (sp?) dies yesterday or the day before.

[bdamomma]

59. exactly it comes in three's

so sad no matter what some people think of his strange ways he was still a person.

[scheming daemons]

113. Umm... David Carradine?

[glowing]

71. I forgot.. I guess the cycle is broken on dead famous people.

Kind of strange the generational gaps of influence that their lives pertained to. But you'd seriously have to be about 30 to even remember what or who they were.

[EFerrari]

54. You mean, he's not important *to you*. n/t

[Zhade]

30. Not interested in sweeping his bad deeds under the rug. Sorry.

NT!

[BolivarianHero]

32. He was a sicko..

Reagan had a lot of good things to say about him; more the mark of an Oliver North-like figure than a decent human being.

[Mrs. Overall]

38. Interesting response...

[ecstatic]

35. The accusations were about MONEY. Who wouldn't want to cash in

on someone who left himself so vulnerable to such charges?

I watched that weird documentary where the last boy was definitely not acting like someone being abused.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

36. I just heard the "I'll be There" State Farm commercial...

and got a little choked up. Must have flashed back to the simpler times of elementary school, my crappy stereo and a Jackson Five poster hanging on my bedroom wall.

Have to agree with your post. And as stated elsewhere in this thread, certain DUers do make Freepers look classy.

[ecstatic]

61. I heard it the other day and enjoyed hearing that old tune

It's before my time but I still know it. What a sad day.

[loyalkydem]

37. Right now

I'm sad because I grew up listening to his music and he influenced a lot of my child hood. So excuse me if I don't join in some of the bashing of MJ that's happening. I'm going to leave for about 24 hours. I'll be back tomorrow.

[Codeine]

39. The cops who beat Rodney King

and OJ Simpson were also not convicted. WTF does that prove?

[rvablue]

44. +1 n/t

[Retired AF Dem]

51. Cops beat OJ ?

I dont remember OJ saying cops beat him, though I was out of the country at the time and might have missed it.

[npk]

64. When did OJ get beaten by the Cops

:wtf:

And as for your other bullshit response, the officers who beat Rodney King were eventually found guilty by a federal jury on civil rights charges.

[Left Is Write]

65. The poster meant that OJ Simpson himself was not convicted.

Sentence structure was a little iffy. :)

[npk]

72. I appologize if that is the case. n/t

[Codeine]

75. No worries.

it was a poorly-constructed sentence. :hi:

[redqueen]

82. Why apologize?

The analogy is fucking idiotic. OJ was not beaten by his father. Unlike Michael, he had a chance at a normal life.

[Codeine]

85. I was beaten and molested as well.

I've not molested anyone, and if I had my past would not confer innocence upon me.

[Codeine]

73. I'm not literate at the best of times. ;-) nt

[Codeine]

68. Reading comprehension, dude.

And my point was that a jury letting someone off is not indicative of innocence.

[npk]

80. Sorry about that Codeine

Your post confused me when I first read it. And yes of course I agree with you that a jury doesn't always produce the appropriate verdict.

[Codeine]

81. Again, no worries.

The fault was my own.

[BobRossi]

40. You grew up with him?

What was he like? Did you remain friends?

[cali]

43. no, sorry. he was pedophile. he damaged children.

perhaps you might spare a thought or two to his victimes. And OJ was never found guilty either.

[malaise]

47. He was a fugging genius

All these hacks will now talk about molestation. Yep they wanted money and he owned the Beatles collection.
The corporate media industry destroyed him for one thing - the Beatles collection.

[pipi_k]

76. I agree...genius

There are very few musical geniuses in this world...lots of mediocre songwriters and singers whose music I wouldn't listen to if someone paid me.

But he was a genius.

[Odin2005]

48. I never really cared about the media circus surrounding the trial so I can't say...

whether he was guilty or not. I do know that he had a hellish childhood that really screwed him up, though.

[Minimus]

49. I grew up listening to him also and have always thought of him

as a very talented singer and entertainer.

RIP Michael.

[bdamomma]

52. Thank you for your post.

He contributed alot to music, my deepest sympathy to his family.

[JuniperLea]

56. Let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone...

He was a human being. I feel for all humans. I'm saddened to see so much crap here... jeez...

[LanternWaste]

57. I don't pretend to know what he did or did not do...

I don't pretend to know what he did or did not do. My powers of prognostication are not as keen as are many others who appear to have an absolute knowledge of his actions.

But then again, I've been separating the art from the artist for many years now. I've enjoyed his art for many years now, and will now miss what may have been his most prolific musical years.


I fondly remember the day a large group of my friends and I went directly to my house after school our Soph. or Jr. year to watch the premier of Thriller (MTV timed the event to coincide with the 3pm school bell I've heard...). We were all pretty awe-struck by it, and 1984 turned out to be Jackson's year.

[bdamomma]

62. the first time he did the moon walk on the Motown Anniversary

he had me floored. He wss a great artist.

[truedelphi]

84. I'm too old by more than a lil to chime in with stories of

My friends and me rushing to hear his album when it was new (I am of the Beatles generation)
but I can say that there were times, when feeling down, that "Thriller" took me from The Blues to the happy rock and roll mood.

My sympathies to you. Hold dear your memories, and sorry this man died so young.

[LanternWaste]

89. Indeed.

"My sympathies to you. Hold dear your memories"

Indeed. Sometimes they bum me out. Other times they cheer me up. But without a doubt, I can say that all of them are earned. :hi:

(You are an absolute jewel!)

[nickinSTL]

66. I agree with you

there were allegations, and nothing more.

The guy was rich and famous, and spent a lot of time (ill-advised at best) unsupervised with children.

It would have made him an easy target.

Not saying he was innocent - he was stupid, at best - but I'm still not ready to convict him.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

67. Yeah... I don't want to hear any anti-Jackson comments. This is NOT the time for them.

He was never found guilty, and unlike some other celebs, there IS reasonable doubt (both times).


I'm worried about his kids (even though I know they will be well taken care of monetarily, I'm not sure they have the life skills to deal with it.. I don't think Michael did.)



R.I.P.

[Codeine]

78. If you don't want to read them,

I suggest you scroll on by. Others will post as they please.

[pipi_k]

69. Whatever he did or didn't do...

I've always been a fan of his music. Yeah, this old baby Boomer actually liked his music, and he actually started his career when I was still a teenager...

anyway, he was an icon because of his music.

He undoubtedly had many mental problems, and I always felt kind of sorry for him, despite the charges brought against him.


so, whatever he did or didn't do...I'm really going to miss him for his music


:(

[LittleBlue]

77. Absolutely. Defaming the dead is despicable

He was acquitted before a court, and therefore is innocent.

[Codeine]

83. LMAO!

No, it means he couldn't be found guilty.

And defaming the dead is normal human behavior. I'll not be nice and kissy-face when Bush 43 dies, I assure you.

[paulsby]

94. false

in the eyes of a criminal justice system, the accused is PRESUMED innocent until and unless convicted in a court of law.

it does not therefore follow that when a person is found not guilty, or charges are dropped that the person IS innocent.

those are entirely different things.

[shireen]

92. i'm liking the DU "ignore" feature today

Every person who posts an insensitive callous mean-spirited comment about Jackson will be added to my "ignore" list. I don't have the time or patience for such people.

[Zomby Woof]

93. All I ask

Is people stop with the asinine "celebrity deaths come in threes!" bullshit. Sometimes they come as one, two, or four, or five. I notice people bend the definition of "celebrity" to apply this rule, or change the number of days (same day, three days, or even a week, maybe 2 weeks) in which the deaths occur apart from each other.

I'll let others comment on the recently deceased, but the "3's" crap is just stupid beyond belief. We're supposed to be the smart ones on this site, remember?

[WeDidIt]

95. HE paid off the kid

If he was innocent, he would ahve fought the allegations tooth and nail in a civil court.

As far as I'm concerned, he admitted guilt.

[Joe Fields]

98. you have your opinion, which I do not share.

So, he was never convicted? He convicted himself by paying off numerous families untold millions of dollars in hush money. He just never went to jail for his crimes, if that is what you mean.

[madeline_con]

99. Ditto.

[sylvi]

100. What's a sodomized child here and there

as long as he wrote some really cool ditties in between?

[bullwinkle428]

101. "I see dead DUers" - more specifically, TOMBSTONES coming

for those choosing to make some of the more outrageously ugly comments about this...

[blonndee]

103. Indeed...this nasty one was way past due

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=240019

[Number23]

106. Praise the Lord!

Hopefully his was just the beginning. I see at least two or three more in this very thread that could be pruned without a tear from anyone.

[Spirochete]

104. I was never a fan of Michael Jackson

but I'm not on this planet alone. He meant something to a lot of people, and I can acknowledge that. Rest in peace, Michael.

[TommyO]

108. He was talented, there is no question about that

He was also many other things, of that there is no question either. Why should we put aside what was most likely abuse of a child to placate you?

[democracy1st]

109. how do you know there was child abuse ?

[TommyO]

110. Are you blind?

[democracy1st]

111. once again how do you know it was child abuse?

[Lowell]

112. He escaped justice

Never liked him. Sorry for the young lives he destroyed. Good riddance.
Like OJ, he was guilty as hell, but bought his way out of it.

[snooper2]

114. I doubt his family is fucking around on DU

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[4_TN_TITANS]

115. There must be a sale going on in heaven....

boys underwear - 1/2 off!

Sorry, couldn't resist. I was a teenager when the world waited for the premiere of Thriller, but guilty or not there's only so many times one can be caught in the kitchen with the lid off the cookie jar and not be eating the cookies.

My sympathies to his family though.