Dead rat in elderly man's mouth brings lawsuit.

[LiberalHeart]

Oh. My. God. I vote for this being the most gross story I've read in recent memory -- and it scares the bejesus out of me when I consider that sooner or later I'm gonna end up in one of these facilities:

http://newsgrinder.blogspot.com/2007/04/dead-rat-in-elderly-mans-mouth-brings.html

[stirlingsliver]

1. Staffing Levels At Senior Centers

Staffing levels at most senior centers are just awful.

Pay and benefits paid to workers at senior centers are one big reason why so few people work there.

It's a national disgrace.

[LiberalHeart]

What I remember about Christmas Eve 1988....

...is showing up at my Grandma's nursing home and seeing a sign on the door that said the facility was closed so employees could spend the holiday with their families. Meanwhile, everyone inside was spending it without their families.

[Rosemary2205]

2. I absolutely do not believe this story.

I believe a man with alzheimers played with the mice and may even have put the poisoned rat traps in his mouth -- I believe the facility could be negligent for having anything poisonous in a alzheimer patient's room -- I do not believe for one millisecond that the patient was left unattended so long that a healthy mouse crawled into an unconsious/semiconscious/sleeping patient's mouth and died.

I could be wrong but I'm just not buying.

[LiberalHeart]

3. Then how do you account for the paramedic and hospital records?

[Rosemary2205]

4. The report says

the dead mouse was found in his mouth. It does not say how it got there and without witnesses there is not basis to say the mouse crawled in there a died any more than there is any basis to say the patient played with the dead mouse caught in the rat trap and put it into his mouth himself.

I am simply saying in my humble opinion, based on my own personal experience with alzheimer wards in long term care facilities, I am just making a judgement call based on what I know about them and about alzheimer patients. In my very humble opinion the facility is "between a rock and a hard place" when it comes to rodent infestation. They clearly called in a pest control company as they should have. But alzheimer's patients cannot be trusted alone for 10 seconds before god only knows what they will do next -- meaning leaving poisonous materials for just a few seconds with an unattended patient is very dangerous. -- that said, no nursing facility should be expected to supervise alzeimer's patients every single second 24/7 -- that is just unrealistic.

But either way, none of the facts in the article support drawing a conclusion about how the mouse got into the man's mouth.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

[LiberalHeart]

5. I didn't mean that as an argument; just wondered how you countered the reports.

They say "rat" not "field mouse" -- it's the facility saying mouse.

We agree 100% about the other stuff you said. But it looks like this facility has had a lot of problems with one person gone missing and never found and several others developing problems from the care they received.

Something I noticed from family experience is that care facilities vary greatly and it's not impossible to believe that what the lawyer says happened actually happened. But I'm thinking that rat would have had to have been well on the way to dying, not healthy, to stay in a mouth long enough to die.

[Clark2008]

17. See my post below.

I have problems believing a rat crawled into anyone's mouth.

A field mouse would fit, but not a rat - unless it was a baby.

Field Mouse


Rat


Look at the difference in size in relation to the people's hands.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. that pest control company

did not follow labeling protocol when they put out the traps and especially the poison. They will be, at the very least, fined heavily, and are very likely to lose their license. We have to attend tech refresher training every year, and the proper ways to work on a rodent problem are thoroughly covered.

[daveskilt]

10. alzheimers patients can do odd things

I have seen patients try to eat eat rubber gloves, poop on sleeping people and get out of multiple alarms and restraints so that they can push their wheelchair to the strip club across the street.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. In my state no poison for rats

would be allowed anywhere NEAR the patients in any senior facility. Bait stations would have to be the lockable kind and be placed where seniors couldn't get at them, usually CHAINED to pillars or stakes on the outside perimeter of the building. When I handle bait, I must follow the strictest of safety protocols--rubber gloves, washing hands after I properly dispose of the gloves. This stuff is not to be casually tossed about. Any pest control professional who had rat poison and traps where a Alzheimer's patient could get them would lose their license and be liable for lawsuits.

[LiberalHeart]

8. As a pro, can you envision a rat crawling into someone's mouth?

I've been trying to picture some circumstance where that would happen and it's difficult.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. Nothing like that has happened in my tenure

of six years in the business. Once, years ago, when I taught school, a parent brought mice to school in her purse and let them loose in the classroom--yes, the parent had a screw loose and wanted to disrupt the class--but that's about the only thing strange I've heard of with rodents.

Once, one of our techs put out rat poison in a garage without placing it in the bait station. The customer's dog may have eaten some of it--customer came home to find her pooch sniffing at the bait block--she immediately took it to the vet, and we were out the vet bills, which came to more than the service call. Personally, I NEVER put out rodent bait unless it is secured in a locked bait station.

[kestrel91316]

15. IIRC these were sticky traps, not poisoned bait stations.

[kestrel91316]

14. The traps weren't even poisoned. They were the sticky kind.

Where the poor things get stuck in the gummy mess and slowly starve. Ick.

I am inclined to think the man might have PUT a mouse from the trap into his mouth, and the attorney is calling it a rat to be dramatic.

[Gabi Hayes]

9. Why isn't a huge, gigantic story like this all over the M$M? Dick

Cheney's demise, I would think, would be the main story for quite a while.

[Kajsa]

13. This story was on the 6 o'clock news, KABC 7,

here in the LA/OC area.It was on last night.

This facility has had too many problems from rodent infestations
to patient neglect.
They stand to lose their license because of it.

[daveskilt]

11. this was an assisted living not a nursing home -

in an assisted living the residents are much more alert and able to many more things for themselves - no resident in an assisted living would be so out of it they would not notice or be able to prevent an animal crawling in their mouth. now some alzheimers patients might try and eat a dead rat. which brings the question why on earth the dead rat was in his room where he could get to it.

I run a nursing home and they are much much better than in years gone by -there are a few throwbacks though. My company buys bad ones and fixes them - this may be a possible acquisition for us, right near our corporate office in mission viejo!

[Clark2008]

16. This is certainly gross - but I think the story needs a correction.

A field mouse is NOT a rat.

Field mice are very small and look like pets (almost hamsterish). A rat is huge and, frankly, scary looking.

I had to go read because I was trying to figure out how a big rat could crawl into ANYONE'S mouth.

That said, it doesn't make this story any less gross and the alleged care the patient was receiving (or not receiving, as the case may be) and less negligent.

[maveric]

18. Assuming it was an adult rat...

I cant see how an adult rat could fit inside an elderly man's mouth.
Mouse,yes. Rat,no.