When you torture, you lose the benefit of the doubt

[babylonsister]

http://scoop.epluribusmedia.org/story/2007/4/7/223341/0012

When you torture, you lose the benefit of the doubt
by clammyc
Sat Apr 07, 2007

Here is exhibit 3,227 as to why torturing is really, really, REALLY bad:

An Iranian diplomat, freed this week after being abducted in Iraq, accused the CIA of torturing him during his two-month detention, Iranian state television reported Saturday.

The United States immediately denied any involvement in the Iranian's disappearance or release.

See, here is the problem - even if we are to believe that, in this instance, the US is telling the truth, the Iranian diplomat is lying through his teeth and there was absolutely no torture or "coercive interrogation techniques", there is still a question as to who is right and who is wrong here (in terms of the facts).

Let me put it in a more sobering way: because there is so much documented evidence of torture by the United States - whether it is in Iraq, Gitmo, Afghanistan, any of the secret CIA torture prisons that were operated in Poland and Europe or any of the countries that the US rendered suspects to in order to have them tortured - because the US has participated in and condoned torture, we don't get the benefit of the doubt anymore when it comes to whether we actually did torture someone..

Needless to say, this is a horrible sign on so many levels. Because of the sadistic members of the Bush administration, there is now a cloud of doubt (and certainly no sympathy for the United States) over what may very well be an inaccurate accusation by a diplomat of a country with a leader who is just as ideologically crazy as (but much smarter than) our leader at a time where tensions between these two countries is way higher than it should be.

Regardless of what actually transpired between the UK and Iran with the "non-negotiation" and release of the 15 hostages, Iran showed that, even if it did what it did, it is still a step above the United States when it comes to diplomacy. And while that may not seem to count for much, it counts for a lot in the eyes of many countries (as well as people) around the world.

There once was a time where nobody would DARE to accuse the United States of torture. There once was a time when the CIA had documents that specifically outlined and outlawed behaviors that were most definitely considered to be torture. There once was a time when the US didn't export torture to other countries.

more...

[Jim__]

1. The US has as much credibility as Baghdad Bob had when he was ...

... denying that American forces were in Baghdad.

If we held the Iranian diplomat, my assumption is that we tortured him. That seems to be our default action now.

It is tragic how far we've fallen. It is even more tragic that "we the people" are accepting this.

[MountainLaurel]

2. Absolutely

:applause:

[zonmoy]

4. question is how much farther can we still fall

could our country become the tenth circle of hell.

[Solly Mack]

3. Yep