"None of us in the officers' mess believed in the weapons of mass destruction nonsense"

[Postman]

Ex-army officer: troops are dying in Iraq for a 'doomed project'
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2432462.ece


"I came out of the Army fucking angry - I felt I had a right to come out and say something," he said. "My friends had been killed, so I thought: 'I'm not going quietly.'"

[cassiepriam]

1. Dear military officers: think twice next time you blindly vote

for anyone running on the repug ticket.

You did this to yourselves. That must be the worst part of all of it.

You are the ones who gave this sociopathic regime total power.

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. You do realize there are a lot of military who don't vote Repub, though, right?

[cassiepriam]

6. I lived half my life in the military. I never met one person who voted Dem

Or would admit to it. Most are hard core Repugs.

That is why it is so sad.

Bush's biggest supporters are now his victims.

[Squatch]

17. Well, then. Let me introduce myself

Active duty, voted Dem all my adult life

[cassiepriam]

18. When the top brass are all strong Repugs, being Dem is not easy.

And you may not make 4 star general status.

[Squatch]

20. Tell that to this guy:

[cassiepriam]

24. Wes Clark voted repug most of his life. And praised George Bush.

And he hoped to be on the Bush team at one point.

Duh, that is how he got his rank. Not by being vocal about
Clinton and Gore.

What more can we expect from a military Dem??

But I do like Wes Clark and would vote for him.

[DURHAM D]

9. I don't know what the stats are for 2004 but

I read a very good article a few years back that stated that 90% of the officers vote R and 66% of the regular soldiers voted R. The main point of the article was not the politicization of the military but about the possible disconnect between the officers and the regular soldiers.

However, the article pointed out that Gen. Marshall (of Marshall Plan fame) did not think that people in the military should vote at all. He felt that they might come to vote as a block and become too closely associated with a political party. If that were to happen and then the opposition party took the WH and congress he felt that military funding would be cut as punishment.

[Postman]

3. Although I agree with your sentiments, the above story is in reference to a UK Army soldier....

I don't know if you knew that in making your comment...

[cassiepriam]

7. Doesn't matter. Military folks are pretty much the same the world over.

I grew up in the military. I know them quite well.

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. But in Britain, the 'left wing' Labour and right wing Tory parties both voted for war

(or their senior MPs did, anyway). And the 3rd largest party, the Lib Dems, which voted against the invasion, was the one led by an ex-Marine officer for most of the 90s. Assumptions can be misleading.

[cassiepriam]

14. Both Dems and Repugs voted for the war here as well.

Not sure what that has to do with military party affiliation??

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. You were the one who brought it up

"Dear military officers: think twice next time you blindly vote for anyone running on the repug ticket.

You did this to yourselves. That must be the worst part of all of it."

You were the first to mention the voting habits of the military, and to claim it contributed to the invasion of Iraq. If you don't know why it's relevant, should we ask for this whole sub-thread from post #1 to be deleted as mistaken and irrelevant?

[cassiepriam]

19. HUH??

I am not following you at all.
You are asking the mods to delete my posts?
I have not broken any rules that I am aware of.

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. In post #1, you said that voting Republican contributed to the invasion of Iraq

and have gone on to say the military people you know vote overwhelmingly Republican. If you think that pointing out which parties actually voted for the invasion, and the military links of parties, are in fact irrelevant, then so is your post #1 - and all the replies stemming from it. So we might as well get rid of this sub-thread as a waste of time for all of us, and one not worthy of being replied to, or even read.

[cassiepriam]

23. Sometimes complicated or unpleasant material can make a person uncomfortable.

Hard to tell whether you just can not understand what I am
saying, or if you just don't like what I am saying.
But the truth is not always easy to hear I know.

I will try to break it down a bit more for you.

1. How the Dems and Repug congress voted on the Iraqi war is not related to my comments on the topic of special interest groups and party affiliation in the past 35 yrs.

2. The military has consistently supported the repug agenda for many years now. General Powell was one of the biggest and most vocal supporters of the war. (How he must cringe to see what he has wrought for his beloved troops. )

3. It is karma time for the military. All those who supported Bush are now his victims.

4. I know it is hard to accept, but true. The only way we can heal as a nation is for everyone to accept their part in what has happened. And the military has to own their part in all of this. As do many others.
It is easy to blame a delusional president, but he did not get to power by himself. He had much help.

I do wish you peace and light dear.

Please use your energy to fight the good fight,
not those who are on your side.

Use your strength to rally against
those in power who murder, rape, torture innocents.

[muriel_volestrangler]

25. Why your points are oh-so-irrelevant:

1: The article was about the British military
2: In Britain, it was a nominally left wing party that led the country into the war
3: People have given you many examples of people in the military, in both Britain and the USA, supporting non-conservative parties

No, I'm not uncomfortable. No, your material isn't complicated. It's an irrelevant overgeneralisation, which you seem determined to defend to the bitter end.

[cassiepriam]

27. Blessings, love and light to you.

I hope your day goes well.

[randome]

5. No one votes

to have their friends killed. I think you overstate the situation.

[cassiepriam]

8. But in the end, that is exactly what they voted for. Ironic isn't it?

Their blind allegiance to the repugs caused the demise of the military they so love. The death of themselves and or friends.

This has to be such a painful lesson for them.
I grew up in the military. I know what they are going thru.
But they did it to themselves in part.

And they are not alone. Many of Bush's biggest supporters have
become his victims.

[LynnTheDem]

10. 2/3rds of US military are NOT republicans.

Did you ever wonder why george bush & his regime never bragged about winning the military vote?

Guess what.

[cassiepriam]

11. Sorry, but for the past 35 years the military has been strongly Republican.

Goggle it and you will see the data.

And the military consists of many southerners, who voted red in the past two elections.

But now that the military has watched itself be destroyed by Bush,
perhaps they are beginning to rethink their party affiliation.

[DemBones DemBones]

13. Remember that many military families

retire in the South, because so many have been stationed here and like the climate. That adds to the GOP voting bloc, as does the large influx of Republicans who come South for jobs. Clinton carried several Southern states each time and I think the right candidate can do it again, unless the migrant Republicans now have us too outnumbered. A problem has been that many in the South, whether born here or transplants, believe the Democrats are unpatriotic and "don't support the troops." Or have believed it -- the war has changed the thinking of more than a few here.

I grew up in a military family but I think the military has changed greatly since going all-volunteer 35 years ago. My dad retired in 1966, having joined pre-WWII and served in the Pacific Theater of Ops during the war. He was a moderate Republican who agreed with Ike about the dangers of the military-industrial complex. But there were plenty of Dems in the military then, the only lock-step was in marching. During his time in --and my time of living on or near military bases -- draftees brought a very different mix to the military. I think draftees kept the gung-ho killer mentality of some volunteers in check. Not perfectly, or there'd have been no My Lai. But I suspect it's worse in an all-volunteer military.

It's not good when everyone in the military intends to make it a career. The draft, as much as we hated it when being drafted meant a trip to Nam, had previously been a positive force in that young men were exposed to other young men of different races, ethnicities, socioeconomic backgrounds, given training, and "made men out of." I remember when it was normal for most young men to do a tour in the service, even when few were being drafted. It gave them time to make a break from adolescence that college does not always give, especially for those who didn't know what they wanted to do with their lives. Despite the overprogramming of many kids today, there are still many who don't know what they want to do and would benefit from military service. Maybe we should reinstate the draft with a provision that draftees could opt out of combat service. Better yet, we could stop fighting foolish wars. Now we have an "economic draft" with primarily the poor entering the military and the rich having soft lives. Men who enter the military with no political affiliation or as Democrats may be indoctrinated in the GOP lies. (Why did I even say 'may'? We know it's happening. They are lied to by the officers and NCOs who control their lives and the tv is always on FOX. It's bad for the military and bad for our society.

[cassiepriam]

15. If there was a mandatory draft, this war would be over now.

I think recently we are seeing the military beginning to lose its party affiliation with the repugs. It has been a hard lesson for them

[bdamomma]

21. there won't be a draft, because they are hiring mercenary death squads

to do their dirty work.

read the article: I hope more UK guards speak up.

[cassiepriam]

26. A gives them a chance to channel $billions to their corporate cronies.

[LynnTheDem]

Sorry but that's incorrect.

I'll post a link shortly, but officers (less than 20% of the military) are 2/3rds republican, while 2/3rds of enlisted troops are apx 1/3 republican, 1/3 Democrats, and 1/3 Indies, with the latter group growing.

Of my husband's entire unit, ONE soldier voted for bush.

[LynnTheDem]

28. Links

With all US military active duty, officers (who only make up 15% of the US military) & enlisteds (85%):

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-brooks5jan05,0,3406790.column?coll=la-opinion-center

"Army officers, who represent roughly 15% of the active duty military personnel are 8-1 republicans.

Enlisted personnel, however -a disproportionate number of whom are minorities- are more evenly split.

...about one third of enlisted troops are republicans, one third Democrats, and the rest Independents, with the latter group growing.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0921/p02s02-usmi.html


The math is not fuzzy; two-thirds of the 85% of the US military are NOT republicans. 20% of the other 15% of the US militay are NOT republicans.


And the majority of US troops believe Iraq war was wrong

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=3024215

[tabasco]

29. The military is huge and your observations are very limited.

I am a former officer and combat vet. Your blanket statement is no more valid than "all blacks are lazy" or "all whites are racists."

[juno jones]

4. Oh My

Read the article, I certainly hope he continues to speak out. I will keep an eye out for his book...