Outsourcing is much much worse than immigration, legal or not

[Lerkfish]

outsourcing is much more damaging to our economy than immigration.

at least immigrants, legal and illegal spend what they make within our economy, continuing to stimulate it with money made from our resident's spending on goods and services. Immigrants have to eat, which pays the salaries of grocery workers, for example.

However, Outsourced employees spend the money our residents spend OUTSIDE our economy, and within their own economies, effectively siphoning off the normal residual reinvestment that occurs when immigrants or citizens spend their wages within our economy.

When IBM hires workers from Backharistan (fictional country), not only do they pocket the larger profit margin into the CEO's pocket, putting a higher percentage of monies in fewer hands than before, but even the much smaller wages spent in Backharistan stay in Backharistan, stimulating ONLY the Backharistan economy while depleting our own.

Just something to think about for people that are more concerned about immigration, legal or otherwise, than outsourcing.

thanks for listening.

[Demeter]

1. No Argument There!

And the other side of this problem is not taxing excessive incomes so that the economy circulates instead of stagnating.

Money is like manure, Dolly Levi said. It has to be spread around to help young things grow (otherwise, it sits in stinking piles and breeds flies).

[RB TexLa]

2. And of course only 'Mericans deserve to have jobs

A company, corporation, partnership or individually owned may hire people anywhere they wish. And yes, people outside of the 50 states may be gainfully employed, they are in fact worthy of being employed.

[Cleita]

4. Sure they do as long as they don't call themselves an

American company anymore. I think our government needs to protect our economy within our borders with restrictions on just how much laissez faire commerce will be allowed before they have to pay excise taxes and acquire the necessary permits and other legal papers to do business here as a foreign company.

[Cleita]

3. Not only that most immigrants get withholding for taxes taken from their wages.

I don't believe those employees of American companies overseas pay American taxes.

[AzDar]

5. With illegal immigration, however , there is the tremendous burden

on public services.
Here in Arizona, we are in crisis-mode coping with the constant demands on schools, courts, hospitals, and social services by illegal entrants.
Both outsourcing, and 'insourcing', as it were, are destructive.

[Lerkfish]

11. and who is employed in those schools, hospitals and social services?

they get wages, too, and that money is reinvested in the system.

[AzDar]

12. Unfortunately, very few teachers, law enforcement personnel, and social service workers

are being added to the State payrolls (these areas have been traditionally underfunded anyway)to meet the tremendous added burden of illegal immigrants.
The position that illegal immigration is actually somehow GOOD for the U.S. is absurd and frankly, offensive, to those of us who deal with it's ugly reality every day.

[NormanYorkstein]

14. absurd and offensive is right

And perhaps it will make the demographic of DU a little more sympathetic if we add in H1B visas that are killing the middle class, just like illegal immigration is killing the working class.

[Lerkfish]

15. my point was that immigrants are still within our own economy, so at least

The money they circulate stays here, vs. outsourcing, which none of the money stays here.

If you find that absurd and offensive, I'm confused why you would.
I'm explaining that a larger and more dangerous drain, literally, on our economy is outsourcing.

simple mathmatics.

and I've lived in Tucson, Los Angeles, and Las Vegas, so I'm aware of the impact. I'm just saying for immigration, there is AT LEAST some economic amelioration to our own economy.

[NormanYorkstein]

16. remittances

the money doesn't really stay here and contribute to our economy, if you are talking about illegal immigration at least.

[AzDar]

19. Bingo. n/t

[Lerkfish]

21. really? the illegal immigrant does not eat?

does not wear clothes?

phshaw...its clear I'm dealing with a hardened mind on this issue.
I've made my points. You can dismiss them if you wish. I'm still confused as to why my points offend you. No offense to you was intended.

:shrug:

[NormanYorkstein]

6. they are two sides of the same coin

Plus the cost of services for poor immigrants is massive. It's just a way for corporations to get subsidized (near) slave labor.

[KG]

7. if both parties hadn't spent the last 30 years helping corporations move good jobs overseas

and disabling unions, there'd be plenty of work for all in this country.

[KoKo]

8. Good Point and our Dems would do well to use that. It would hit home with

so many. Outsourcing takes the good paying jobs and shifts them off. While Repugs and Corporations claim they can't find "skilled workers" here. Repugs have been pushing that lie for a year. Need to have that debunked.

[FormerDem06]

13. I seriously cannot find good American labor.....

My company needs developers with 5-7 years experience. We have all of the folks with 10+ years we can handle.

Guess what? There aren't any out there. The only folks with 5-7 years experience I can find are in the L and H Visa programs, and now we have to pay to sponsor them.

Those movements have created a gap (by design I think) of good IT workers of American origin in their mid 20s. Those folks couldn't find jobs out of college becuase of the India labor brought into this country on the L visa program; and they've moved on to other endeavors.

I'd take seven English speaking US university trained 26-28 year olds right now with C# 2.0 and .NET if I could find them in my market, but they don't exist.

[JHB]

20. That's a point that needs underscoring, I think...

Abusive/Too-permissive use of the L and H visa programs, on the excuse that vital skills were in short supply, actually creates a larger shortage because they supplant the longer-term "new blood".

[OhioChick]

18. Study: There Is No Shortage of U.S. Engineers

April 4, 2007

A commonly heard defense in the arguments that surround U.S. companies that offshore high-tech and engineering jobs is that the U.S. math and science education system is not producing a sufficient number of engineers to fill a corporation's needs.

However, a new study from Duke University calls this argument bunk, stating that there is no shortage of engineers in the United States, and that offshoring is all about cost savings.

This report, entitled "Issues in Science and Technology" and published in the latest National Academy of Sciences magazine further explores the topic of engineering graduation rates of India, China and the United States, the subject of a 2005 Duke study.

In the report, concerns are raised that China is racing ahead of both the United States and India in its ability to perform basic research. It also asserts that the United States is risking losing its global edge by outsourcing critical R&D and India is falling behind by playing politics with education. Meanwhile, it considers China well-positioned for the future.

Duke's 2005 study corrected a long-heard myth about India and China graduating 12 times as many engineers as the United States, finding instead that the United States graduates a comparable number.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2111347,00.asp

[uppityperson]

9. I agree, outsourcing pays minimally, poor work conditions, just sends money away. nt

[selfdestructive]

10. repatriation of profits

someone in the US is getting fat off that hog
wonder who...

lol

[The2ndWheel]

17. There is no "here", "outside", or "within" anymore

Physical reality is becomming less of a burden on production than ever.

When I say burden, I mean that in the most economic way possible. I'm not talking as an actual person when I say that in the context of this post.