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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) |
Liberal_in_LA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 07:20 AM Original message |
Is the California education system, once the best in the world, being dismantled? |
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madrchsod (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 07:36 AM Response to Original message |
1. yes it is.... |
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Paranoid Pessimist (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:39 PM Response to Reply #1 |
54. What was at one time the best STATE is being dismantled n/t/ |
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izquierdista (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 07:36 AM Response to Original message |
2. Prop13, the gift that keeps on taking |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 08:40 AM Response to Reply #2 |
8. In spite of Prop 13 we have the most heavily taxed working middle class in the country |
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izquierdista (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 09:49 AM Response to Reply #8 |
13. Yes |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 10:03 AM Response to Reply #13 |
18. The real estate market was not the problem |
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izquierdista (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 11:40 AM Response to Reply #18 |
25. Easily duped |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:27 PM Response to Reply #25 |
40. Do you have a constructive, realistic suggestion for fixing the problem? |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:44 PM Response to Reply #40 |
59. After the state finally collapses then, and ONLY then, will the politicians and the people |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:54 PM Response to Reply #59 |
64. Have you applied for property tax relief recently, by any chance? |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:04 PM Response to Reply #64 |
66. I am just pointing a reality |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:07 PM Response to Reply #66 |
67. What I pay in income and sales taxes more than makes up for my controlled property tax |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:12 PM Response to Reply #67 |
68. So you are a spend and not tax liberal? |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:14 PM Response to Reply #68 |
69. I'm a fiscally conservative, socially liberal, libertarian-leaning Democrat who votes and pays taxes |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:17 PM Response to Reply #69 |
71. Libertarian... all I needed to know |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:20 PM Response to Reply #71 |
74. No, not Libertarian |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:22 PM Response to Reply #74 |
76. So you want the services but not pay for them. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:24 PM Response to Reply #76 |
77. Get specific |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 03:09 PM Response to Reply #77 |
91. And republicans who do not want to do any fair taxation |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-19-09 01:24 PM Response to Reply #69 |
117. In other words you are a corporatist sucker that likes to smoke pot. |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 02:20 PM Response to Reply #67 |
84. but not for corporations, or the super-rich; the folks behind prop 13. |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 02:22 PM Response to Reply #67 |
85. ps: cali is right in the middle of the state tax burden stats, though not right in the middle of the |
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closeupready (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:18 PM Response to Reply #59 |
72. Unfortunately, that's correct. The state will have to collapse first. |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:20 PM Response to Reply #72 |
75. I know because a lot of residents in this state |
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closeupready (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:27 PM Response to Reply #75 |
79. And even if the middle-class Californian is taxed more highly than a typical middle class resident |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 09:55 PM Response to Reply #79 |
109. You do not need to convince me about it |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-19-09 01:26 PM Response to Reply #75 |
119. There is an apocryphal story of a guy who said "why should I pay for public services, that's the... |
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KamaAina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:25 PM Response to Reply #59 |
78. Ouch! Below the belt! |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 03:13 PM Response to Reply #78 |
93. I lived in O'ahu for three years... and saw the wonders |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 06:51 PM Response to Reply #78 |
97. But true. I know few teachers that actually send their kids to public school there |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 10:02 AM Response to Reply #8 |
17. how can you run a state when i pay $3000/year in property taxes while some neighbors pay $500 |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 10:05 AM Response to Reply #17 |
19. Your neighbor probably pays as much as you do in income and sales taxes |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 11:37 AM Response to Reply #19 |
22. name me one good school |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 11:41 AM Response to Reply #22 |
26. Deleted message |
CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 11:45 AM Response to Reply #26 |
28. for someone who offers all kinds of detail in opposing tax hikes |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:18 PM Response to Reply #22 |
30. If you pay $400,000 for a house in California, your property tax will be at least $4,000 |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:22 PM Response to Reply #30 |
34. You only pay $4000 in property tax on a $400,000 house? |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:24 PM Response to Reply #34 |
36. That's what the 1% limit of Proposition 13 would result in, HOWEVER... |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:34 PM Response to Reply #36 |
47. your current assessed value can be FAR LESS than your actual property value |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:36 PM Response to Reply #47 |
49. That protects people who have unexpected increases in market value from getting soaked |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:44 PM Response to Reply #49 |
60. then you will correct your post about paying $4000 tax on a $400,000 house |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:48 PM Response to Reply #60 |
62. Why should someone pay drastically higher property tax because he or she got lucky |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:37 PM Response to Reply #36 |
51. Sounds like your income tax is too high, and property tax is too low. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:38 PM Response to Reply #51 |
52. The net result is that I pay higher taxes than working middle-class homeowners in other states |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:40 PM Response to Reply #52 |
56. Tell the governator to take his hand out of my pocket, and it would be none of my business. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:42 PM Response to Reply #56 |
57. Well then figure out a way to collect more without making working middle-class voters pay more |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:43 PM Response to Reply #57 |
58. Er, I told you that I live in Michigan. Not my problem to solve. nt |
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closeupready (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:33 PM Response to Reply #57 |
80. Then the solution is simple - your state is going to go broke. |
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elehhhhna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:56 PM Response to Reply #34 |
81. 200K = 4K prop tax here near Houston. |
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Liberal_in_LA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 02:24 PM Response to Reply #81 |
86. about 2500K in Los angeles, less if you bought the house long time ago |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:29 PM Response to Reply #30 |
42. if their house is WORTH $400,000 |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:34 PM Response to Reply #42 |
46. Sooner or later that house will change hands, and the property tax will go up accordingly |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 11:44 AM Response to Reply #19 |
27. who are you? how would you know how much he pays in income tax? |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:19 PM Response to Reply #27 |
32. I'm the mysterious person who reads all of your mis-addressed emails |
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Donnachaidh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 10:28 AM Response to Reply #8 |
21. How about getting Ahnuld to tax his movie buddies more? |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 11:39 AM Response to Reply #8 |
24. please tell us what to cut |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:22 PM Response to Reply #24 |
35. I support a wholesale release of non-violent prisoners over age 50 |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:27 PM Original message |
you aren't at 26 billion |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:28 PM Response to Original message |
41. You haven't presented a realistic suggestion for closing the gap either |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:31 PM Response to Reply #41 |
44. but unilike you i didn't rule out revenue increases |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:32 PM Response to Reply #44 |
45. It's not just me ruling out revenue increases |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:36 PM Response to Reply #45 |
50. what was the ballot measure? |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:40 PM Response to Reply #50 |
55. Whoopsie, I meant the May 19, 2009 special election |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:46 PM Response to Reply #55 |
61. that was hardly a clear cut vote on raising taxes |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:49 PM Response to Reply #61 |
63. I want Bass, Steinberg, Scwarzenegger, and all the other idiots OUT of state government |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:03 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. maybe, but most budget decisions were forced by voters |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:16 PM Response to Reply #65 |
70. Gut CHILDREN? |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:59 PM Response to Reply #70 |
82. you underestimate California Republicans |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-19-09 01:31 PM Response to Reply #45 |
120. That just proves that "The People" are MORONS!!! |
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rvablue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:30 PM Response to Reply #8 |
43. Prop. 13 IS the reason the middle class is heavily taxes in California. |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:35 PM Response to Reply #43 |
48. I'd support raising property taxes if it was accompanied by a cut in income and sales taxes |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 09:55 AM Response to Reply #2 |
14. Interesting Op-Ed refutation of that recently in the LA Times, a paper that is anti Prop 13 |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 09:59 AM Response to Reply #14 |
16. Facts have little effect on the anti-13 crowd |
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CreekDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 11:38 AM Response to Reply #16 |
23. but you're objective |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:26 PM Response to Reply #23 |
38. The facts of where California gets its money and how much it takes in are not in dispute here |
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natrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 07:39 AM Response to Original message |
3. they need a dumbed down population and the ngovernor is delivering |
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ColbertWatcher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 07:42 AM Response to Original message |
4. Yes, the GOPdepression has created another disaster opportunity. |
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Gman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 08:00 AM Response to Original message |
5. All according to the Right Wing plan |
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XemaSab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 08:06 AM Response to Original message |
6. Is this a rhetorical question? |
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Liberal_in_LA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 03:03 PM Response to Reply #6 |
89. No. well, sort of, I guess |
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gristy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 08:33 AM Response to Original message |
7. I dunno. |
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hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 09:20 AM Response to Original message |
9. California itself is being dismantled. |
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Hepburn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 09:22 AM Response to Reply #9 |
10. IMO, the only threat we ever posed ended when.... |
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lurky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 09:22 AM Response to Original message |
11. I bet this is a way to "privatize" the UC. |
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Hepburn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 09:32 AM Response to Reply #11 |
12. Yes, they just want a whole series of... |
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liberal N proud (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 09:57 AM Response to Original message |
15. The dumbing down of America |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 10:08 AM Response to Original message |
20. Prop 13 |
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pinniped (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 11:59 AM Response to Original message |
29. These clowns are proposing a 20% tuition increase at CSUs. |
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mike_c (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 07:34 PM Response to Reply #29 |
104. that's on top of an additional 10% already approved in May.... |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:19 PM Response to Original message |
31. California is the GM of states. Utterly unsustainable in its present form. nt |
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lindisfarne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:21 PM Response to Original message |
33. When was it EVER the best in the world? It is being dismantled, though.n/t |
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Liberal_in_LA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 07:25 PM Response to Reply #33 |
101. awwww. |
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mike_c (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 07:45 PM Response to Reply #33 |
105. do some research-- the California Master Plan for Education was visionary... |
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lindisfarne (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 10:26 PM Response to Reply #105 |
110. Attracting nobel laureates isn't the same as educating people who become nobel laureates. |
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Flaneur (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:25 PM Response to Original message |
37. Perhaps, but not the prison system. |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:27 PM Response to Original message |
39. It's BEEN dismantled. |
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EFerrari (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-18-09 04:24 PM Response to Reply #39 |
113. My kids went through the same schools in the 80s I did in the 60s. |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-19-09 09:58 AM Response to Reply #113 |
114. yep. nt |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 12:38 PM Response to Original message |
53. Yes, yes it is... ah prop 13... I remember one of my profs over |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 01:19 PM Response to Original message |
73. That's what happens when you trash your revenue stream. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 06:50 PM Response to Reply #73 |
96. When you look at the numbers, Prop 13 is not the issue |
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MadHound (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 11:46 PM Response to Reply #96 |
111. When you look over the numbers over the past thirty years, yes, Prop. 13 is the problem |
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Hannah Bell (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 02:00 PM Response to Original message |
83. yes. as well as public services & social protections nationwide. |
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PretzelWarrior (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 02:26 PM Response to Original message |
87. undoubtedly it is. Maria Shriver should divorce Ahhnold in protest |
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Liberal_in_LA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 03:05 PM Response to Reply #87 |
90. agreed. Bring back Gray Davis. John & Ken of KFI radio brought this train wreck of a gov upon is |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 06:49 PM Response to Reply #90 |
95. Actually he was recalled, which radio hosts can not do |
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Liberal_in_LA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 07:22 PM Response to Reply #95 |
98. They kept up the drum beat until he was recalled. |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 08:04 PM Response to Reply #98 |
107. What do you think of their current "Head on a Stick" campaign, it does seem to annoy |
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Liberal_in_LA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-18-09 04:22 PM Response to Reply #107 |
112. I hate the way John & Ken portray themselves are justice fighters when they are little more than |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-19-09 01:12 PM Response to Reply #112 |
115. Its their shtick and they are good at it...they will skewer anyone for ratings |
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Hekate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 02:27 PM Response to Original message |
88. The new prez at hubby's college wants an across the board pay cut that will cut his pension... |
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inna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 03:10 PM Response to Original message |
92. i work for the UCSF, and effective August 1, there is an 8% salary cut across the board. |
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Liberal_in_LA (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 07:25 PM Response to Reply #92 |
100. The final decision is out... graduated payscale reduction from 4% to 10%, effective 9/1 |
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inna (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 09:41 PM Response to Reply #100 |
108. yes, i just got the memo today. apparently, it's no longer straight salary reduction, |
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ProgressiveProfessor (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-19-09 01:14 PM Response to Reply #100 |
116. I got hit as well. Since I am already retired I am not being hurt badly by this but others clearly |
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spelldmilk (183 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 03:20 PM Response to Original message |
94. $10 that this is the result of the buisness practices of Enron officals. |
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Jakes Progress (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 07:23 PM Response to Original message |
99. The neocons won. nt |
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fishbulb703 (492 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 07:30 PM Response to Original message |
102. im at a public uni, the first thing state leg. cuts? education |
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mike_c (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 07:32 PM Response to Original message |
103. yes-- and I say that as a veteran cal state professor who has seen it happening... |
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Sirveri (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Jul-17-09 07:52 PM Response to Original message |
106. legalise pot, modify prop 13, release nonviolent offenders |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-19-09 01:24 PM Response to Original message |
118. CIA budgets were being hidden in school budgets at Federal level . . |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-19-09 01:38 PM Response to Original message |
121. All you anti-Tax morons (including a poster in this thread), you are reaping what you sowed. |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Sun May 05th 2024, 08:53 PM Response to Original message |
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