Gates Was Arrested For Disturbing The Peace Of Sergeant Crowley?!?

[kpete]

.......... the Statement of Facts from the official police report in the Gates arrest:
http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Original_PDF/2009/07/21/0721docket_redacted_revised__1248200728_6644.pdf

On Thursday July 16, 2009, Henry Gates, Jr. ___ of ___ Ware Street, Cambridge, MA) was placed under arrest at __ Ware Street, after being observed exhibiting loud and tumultuous behavior, in a public place, directed at a uniformed police officer who was present investigating a report of a crime in progress. These actions on behalf of Gates served no legitimate purpose and caused citizens passing by this location to stop and take notice while appearing surprised and alarmed.

Signed: Sgt. James Crowley

And therein lies the problem for Sergeant Crowley and the Cambridge PD. It was a patently illegal and insufficient arrest from the start. Gates is arrested for disturbing the peace - of Sergeant Crowley. See the words "directed at a uniformed officer"? This is the epitome of contempt of cop, and that is an illegal and unconstitutional arrest. What is not contained in the statement of facts is any reference to an identifiable citizen/member of the public being disturbed. None whatsoever. This is precisely the type of conduct castigated historically by courts as generally described in Duran v. City of Douglas.

more:
http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/07/23/henry-louis-gates-contempt-of-cop/

[winter999]

1. I'm white and I KNOW I would have been arrested if I had acted in like manner.

[DU9598]

5. The police would most likely never have been called ...

[winter999]

11. It was a citizen call to a possible break-in.

If you read the police report, it appears that the house had previously been broken into.

"Gates told me that the door was unsecurable due to a previous break attempt at the residence."

Read the report:

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/Police%20report%20on%20Gates%20arrest.PDF

[slampoet]

35. This is a 300+ year old city. EVERY house has been broken into or it is new.

[FloriTexan]

95. Where does it say the house was previously burglarized...

The person who called 911 didn't even know who the homeowner was so how could she have known it was previously burglarized? If the 911 dispatcher knew it had been previously burglarized, then it had to be very recently and someone should know at this point who the homeowner was, his race, and everything else that matters. I call BS>

[babylonsister]

You know that, huh. Aren't you special. Would your neighbor

call the cops on you, too?

Please. You're insulting.

[peacetalksforall]

12. What 'like manner' are you referring to?

[chelsea0011]

14. Really? Hypothetical. John Henry(white owner of the Red Sox) has just been dropped

off at his house in Brookline. He is on his porch with a limo driver wearing a chauffeur's hat and dressed in a suit tuxedo. The driver's limo is parked in front of the house and Henry's bags are still on the porch. Both are trying to figure out why a door is stuck after Henry had already entered his house from the rear. You are telling me John Henry would end up in the a Brookline police station cell because Henry raised his voice at a police officer who was there because of a complaint? No way in hell it would happen.

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. And your arrest would be unconstitutional and unprofessional

:shrug:

[seabeyond]

20. so, trying to get into your home, a cop gonna arrest you, and you arent allowed to be mad

we can no longer have emotion when dealing with a stupid cop cause then we have broken law of emotion? that is absurd. what person doesnt have the right to defend themselves from arrest trying to get into their own home.

what i would hope is the cop would have taken the time to see if it was the mans property then let it go

if a cop is so bad, or so stupid to then push arrest, damn straight i would have gotten mad, and then yes, in todays world of power hungry cops i as a white person would probably be arrested too

still makes the cops stupid or worse

[MADem]

22. What "like manner?" Asking a question, in your own HOUSE, is against the law?

What police state do you live in?

[MineralMan]

24. What 'like manner' are you talking about?

Gates was arrested for not "knowing his place" and talking back to a cop while being a black man.

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. "The salient problem for the Cambridge Police Department is contempt of cop is simply not a crime,

even if profanity is directed at the officer, a situation escalator not even present in Gates' case."

The cop was IN HIS HOUSE, and ON HIS PROPERTY. There was no crime. The ONLY permissible response for the officer was to thank him for his patience, give his name and badge number as requested, and leave. No matter WHAT Gates said.

And NO, you probably would not have been arrested had you acted in a like manner - unless you happen to live in a place that abounds with dumbshit cops. This cop's reaction was abnormal.

[BurtWorm]

37. I doubt it.

[redqueen]

47. For at least the fourth time - what "like manner"?

[Lorien]

92. In your OWN HOME WITHOUT a WARRANT.

Bullshit.

[Fire1]

93. YOU wouldn't have been provoked to 'act' in like manner!

[malaise]

2. When did Gates private home become

a public place?

[winter999]

3. He was outside in front of a group of people.

[Raineyb]

7. He was on his porch and the group of people were uninvited

The apologists get more pathetic with each excuse.

[Fumesucker]

10. He was asked to come outside by the cop specifically so the cop could arrest him.

And I think it's fairly clear that Gates came outside against his better judgment, I suspect he had a pretty good idea what was getting ready to happen.

[Blue Diadem]

87. Yep. The cop wrote in his report that he wanted to go outside and said he

told Mr. Gates he would speak with him outside. I think you're correct, it was so he could arrest him.

I can't imagine being treated like that and then to go outside and see numerous other police and spectators. I'd be ticked too.

[babylonsister]

16. Got a link? I haven't read that. Where'd you find that 'fact'? nt

[MADem]

23. He was on his PORCH and the "people" were cops on his lawn, as well as

neighbors who came out to see WTF was going on over at the professor's house, with all those cops on the lawn. Good thing they were there, too, because they are witnesses who can and will refute the assertions of Jim Crowley.

[quiller4]

51. not just "can" but "have" refuted Crowley's report. That was mentioned

in the mayor's apology.

[lazer47]

6. There isn't just one ignorant cop,, there are at least 2 more in the picture

that is being used on the MSM.

[quiller4]

59. but they didn't support Crowley. n/t

[Raineyb]

4. Funny how his home became a public place

I guess no matter where the man is his behavior is public in the eyes of Sargent (Asshat) Crowley.

[annabanana]

8. The Police have been given tremendous latitude in "law interpretation".

Gates was entirely within his rights to be "tumultuous" towards Crowley when he was ordered to behave in a way that Crowley had no right to order him.

excellent article from Open Left - Front Page:
http://www.openleft.com/diary/14300/the-gates-conundrum-racism-or-police-authority

After reading the officer's account and Gates account, I have no idea whether racism was at the core of Gates being arrested. But I will lay long odds that if Gates had done everything Sergeant Crowley had told him to do and done it snappish, well, he wouldn't have been arrested. My interactions with police in the US have all reinforced to me that even something as simple as a question is interpreted by many policy as a direct assault on their authority, and that they have no tolerance for any such thing. If a policeman in the US asks you to do something, or tells you, you'd best do it, right now, whether he has the right to order you around or not. And if you don't, be ready to deal with the consequences.

[Morning Dew]

9. Gate's home is a "public place" - lol, that's rich.

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. It is a pure case of contempt of cop

And hopefully it will put the spotlight on these outrageous contempt of cop arrests, and perhaps lead to some actual training that would help our police to act like professionals. Contempt of cop is not a crime, and there should be sanctions for such arrests, and dedicated training for police officers to cease acting out of personal animus. You're either a professional or you're not. Contempt of cop arrests are not only unconstitutional, they are profoundly unprofessional. If you can't keep your personal feelings in check, you should turn in your badge.

[babylonsister]

17. Is there anything in that playbook about contempt BY cop? nt

[backscatter712]

19. Specifically, contempt of civil liberties by cop.

This cop needs to lose his fucking badge.

[lpbk2713]

18. Prez O sez Sgt Crowley is stupid

He said it live on national TV.


:rofl: :rofl:

[AwakeAtLast]

27. "acted stupidly"

There is a difference.

[MADem]

21. What's astounding is that this Professor's own living room and front porch

is somehow a "public place." Say, let's all go hang out in Skip's living room, shall we? Sergeant Jim Crowley has designated it a "public place!"

[SacredCow]

25. WAY too much "You did!" - "I didn't!" going on here....

and I suspect only Mr. Gates and the cops that were present know the real truth.

If it went down exactly as Mr. Gates described (that he cooperated and showed them his ID calmly and rationally), then absolutely the cops were beyond out of line and should be dismissed. If the police report was closer to the truth (that Mr. Gates immediately went to the racist accusations and started generally being an ass)... Well.... Perhaps the cops were a little more justified to cuff him if they thought he was a threat to their safety. But again- without knowing exactly what was being said, I can't make that call.

I do know that I've been in a similar situation. My office was broken into some years back. They broke the window and got into our conference room, but as soon as they stepped out into the hallway a motion detector went off and they scrambled. I got the call from the alarm company and got there just before the cops did. I was just getting the door opened to turn off the alarm when they got there, and I had to prove who I was and all of that.

Black or white, if you're seen breaking into your own residence (for whatever reason) and the cops are called- you can expect to get grilled by the responding officers. If you handle it maturely, you *shouldn't* be harrassed, but it's happened before and will probably happen again. If you handle it like a jerk, you're increasing your chances of being harrassed exponentially.

[AwakeAtLast]

29. Way too much "CYA" going on here.

After he showed his ID the case should have been closed.

[SacredCow]

39. Yeah, probably....

If he threatened the officers in some way (but I've not heard any accusations of that) I could see that they'd be justified. "Disturbing the peace" seems like a bullshit charge, but would probably depend on local ordinances.

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. Gates was not harrassed. He was ARRESTED.

There is a difference.

And, being a 60 yr old black man, I have little doubt that this is not the 1st time in his life that a cop has not taken him at his word, and looked at him as a suspect simply because he was black.

Cop knocks on the door, Gates answers.
Cop: There was a report of a burlary in progress.
Gates: I live here. There's no burglary.

And HERE is where it goes wrong -

Cop: You understand I have to be sure. Can you provide me some identification, sir?
or
Cop: Yeah? Prove it. Sir.

The first is how you talk as a professional - probably how you were talked to in the incident you mentioned. The second is how some cops always address black people, suspicion and disrespect carried by tone. Gates, hearing the 1st, obliges. Gates, hearing the 2nd, also obliges but does so grudgingly and pissed off.

As you might.

[slampoet]

36. As a 40yr old whitey who has NEVER had the cops act to my benefit, i am disturbed that ANY

58 year old person can be treated with this much suspicion.

The fact is that people who are over 50 simply don't commit this kind of crime.

In fact other than DUI and Shoplifting the over 50 set commit almost no crimes no matter their race. The fact these cops didn't take that into account means that they are STUPID as the day is long.

[augusta march]

79. Nice respect for those who risk their lives to save yours...

:eyes:

Oh, and as I stated in another thread, there was a White professor who killed his wife and was on the run. He was in his 50s, if I am not mistaken. You must be about 19 if you think 58 is elderly!:rofl:

[DisgustipatedinCA]

83. it's their job to risk their lives

Shut the fuck up about how I need to respect whomever it is you tell me to respect. Sniveling, bootlicking fuck.

[slampoet]

97. Thank you for defending me, My mother was a cop and Hates what the police have become.

Also freepers like the one above don't seem to know that More cops commit suicide with their own weapon that die in the line of duty.

Sadly it has been that way for over seven decades.

[slampoet]

98. I didn't say elderly you double-y chromo case.

58 is simply beyond the age of almost any B and E artist.

[SacredCow]

38. I've been grilled a handfull of times, personally....

The score is about even, really. Some were respectful and courteous, and others were total jackasses. Hell, I was thrown on the hood of a police car, roughed up, and cuffed once because they assumed that I was with a group of people who were trespassing (when I was, in fact, not). And, yeah- I was very pissed on that occaision and was verbally getting into it with the officer when someone stepped up and told the cops that they were mistaken. In all likelihood, I was going to be hauled in.

Don't get me wrong- I lean in the direction that the officer in question went too far. In the report, he mentions Mr. Gates shouting and such but I didn't see any actual threats (and if he issued them, I'm sure they would have reported it). As for the "disturbing the peace" charges- Honestly, I've never heard of anybody being arrested for that (tickets, yes- but not arrests). But I don't know the laws in Boston- maybe they're perfectly within their rights to arrest somebody for that.

[clear eye]

89. With you, when your identity was proved, the matter was dropped.

Prof. Gates' ID was already known to the Sgt. when he was arrested. That's the difference, and that's what makes it exceedingly likely that racism was at the heart of the arrest. As soon as that license was shown to the officer, he should have been nothing but apolegetic. Even if the professor had been short with him while showing ID. And if there were a way to prove it, I'd bet about anything you were willing to put up that in a prosperous neighborhood like that, Sgt. Crowley would have apologized profusely for the misunderstanding after seeing the ID of a white person under the same circumstances. Even if, like you, the person had protested indignantly about the false accusation.

It amazes me that the obvious disparity in what ended up happening to each of you didn't strike you as significant.

[merh]

26. I've looked and cannot find any city ordinance or state statute that

prohibits his "getting loud" on his front porch with the cops or anyone else.

Guess the department knew that and knew he would have had a lawyer that would figure that one out in no time.

Massachusetts Statutes
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/mgllink.htm

Cambridge City Ordinances
http://www.municode.com/Resources/gateway.asp?pid=16889&sid=21

And please notice that "disorderly conduct" requires said conduct be in a public place - and he was not charged with "disorderly conduct".

9.08.010 Disorderly conduct--Profanity and insulting language.
No person shall behave himself in a rude or disorderly manner, or use any indecent, profane or insulting language in any street or public place. No person shall make or cause to be made, any unnecessary noise or noises in any public street, private way or park, so as to cause any inconvenience or discomfort for the inhabitants of the City.
(Prior code § 13-5)

[-..__...]

34. C 272, S 53 according to the police report...

CHAPTER 272. CRIMES AGAINST CHASTITY, MORALITY, DECENCY AND GOOD ORDER

Chapter 272: Section 53. Penalty for certain offenses

Section 53. Common night walkers, common street walkers, both male and female, common railers and brawlers, persons who with offensive and disorderly acts or language accost or annoy persons of the opposite sex, lewd, wanton and lascivious persons in speech or behavior, idle and disorderly persons, disturbers of the peace, keepers of noisy and disorderly houses, and persons guilty of indecent exposure may be punished by imprisonment in a jail or house of correction for not more than six months, or by a fine of not more than two hundred dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/272-53.htm

Link to police report...

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17512830/Gates-Police-Report

[merh]

41. Well I guess the Sgt has not been properly trained then.

The section you cite contains this language "keepers of noisy and disorderly houses" and the city ordinances require more than just an argument with a cop to be able to charge a home owner/resident under this provision.

Disorderly house. (Under Chap. 219, Sec 27.)—That A.B., during the three months next before the finding of this indictment, at said (Boston) did keep and maintain a certain and common, noisy, ill-governed and disorderly house, resorted to for the purpose of drinking, quarrelling, making great noises, and breaking and disturbing the peace, to the common nuisance of all the people.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/277-79.htm

By statute, the argument on the porch or inside the home does not qualify as a "disorderly house".

[-..__...]

45. Wrong citation.

I'm guessing (as I am not a lawyer), that this the relevant charge...

disorderly persons, disturbers of the peace...

[merh]

49. I believe you are mistaken as citations for those wrongs apply only to "in public places"

He was in his home, on his property. That is not a public place, even when they insisted he go out on his front porch.

See, cops have to be careful as to what they can charge you with when you are on your property.

[-..__...]

50. Where in MGL: C 272, S 53...

does it state a "public place".

From the way the law is written, it can apply anywhere.

I'm not saying that it's appropriate to charge and arrest someone in their own home for disturbing the peace/being a disorderly person... that's just the way the law is written

[merh]

57. Like I said, the cop lacks training - he should know of this decision or

he should keep a grip on his own emotions and not allow his anger to govern his behavior. He had no authority to make the arrest.

Commonwealth v. Mulvey
57 Mass. App. Ct. 579 (March 14, 2003)

Police presence in and of itself does not by itself turn an otherwise purely private outburst into disorderly conduct.

The defendant was charged with disorderly conduct for yelling and pacing on private property that was set back from the road in a secluded area. There was no one around at the time except police officers. While the statute requires that the disturbance be such that it had or was likely to have an impact upon people in an area accessible to the public, the presence of police officers alone will not suffice to prove the public element.

In reaching its decision, the Court noted that the rationale behind criminalizing disorderly conduct rests on the belief that a disorderly person can provoke violence in others.. Given that an inherent part of police work involves being in the presence of distraught individuals, and given that police officers are trained to maintain order, the Court concluded that police should be the least likely to be provoked. Therefore, police presence alone does not satisfy the public element.

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=dmdaterminal&L=5&L0=Home&L1=Court+Decisions&L2=Court+Decisions+by+Topic&L3=Crimes&L4=Disorderly+Conduct&sid=Dmdaa&b=terminalcontent&f=courts_mulvey&csid=Dmdaa

Please note the link goes to the Massachusetts District Attorneys' Association.

.

[-..__...]

64. "Police presence ALONE does not satisfy the public element".

In Gates case there were members of the public present.

So... either Gates fucked-up by following the cop outside (instead of keeping it indoors or simply letting it drop), or the cop was clever enough to lure/provoke Gates to step on the porch where not only would there be members of the public, but also witnesses to
Gates behavior.

[merh]

67. Nope, there were not other members of the public present on his

porch. That is the key here, on his porch.

And the cop asked him to go onto the porch so he could try to circumvent the obvious, Gates was within his right to be upset in his home. The cop was provided the identification - he should have simply said "thank you, sorry for the confusion" and gone on his way.

[-..__...]

69. "That is the key here, on his porch".

While it might be wrongful that a person can be arrested for being on their own porch/property for such a minor thing, MA law makes no distinction on what is considered public and what is considered private property WRT to "disorderly persons"... that's one problem and it's not the cops fault that the law is written that way. It's the fault of the legislature that enacted such a poorly written law that would enable a cop to abuse it or exploit it to his advantage.

"he should have simply said "thank you, sorry for the confusion" and gone on his way".

and it might have ended there if Gates hadn't kept repeatedly insisting that the cop identify himself.

[merh]

71. And the cop should have given him his card and gone about his business.

Yes, cops carry business cards.

The training provided LEO here is, if they are calling HQ or the chief, stick around and when they have them on the phone, be courteous and ask to speak to the person on the other end. Don't get your feelings hurt. It is getting your feelings hurt or your ego bruised that result in bad arrests and/or bad decisions.

The cop knew Gates lawfully belonged in his residence, he just kept insisting on making things complicated. Why did he call for Harvard Police to come to the scene? Did he not believe the identification?

[LiberalFighter]

42. Reviewing the police report I have doubts about the police side of the story.

Take a look at a map of the residence and surrounding buildings. His residence is number 7. It does not appear to be very residential. And there is a lot of space.

[-..__...]

46. Try Google street view...

it gives a much better perspective.

[bridgit]

60. "getting loud" is an interpretation for the moment in my city that can run counter to...

the rights of others to the presumption of a peaceful environ, even on your porch; which is your front door to 'the public place'. I would also think the matter pivots somewhere nearer to the obligations of a citizenry to provide ID when called upon to do so perhaps especially where confusion exists round preliminary investigations concerning possible criminal activity B&E being but one of them if not the first of many.

I understand that Prof. Gates thinks his name and face have been pressed into the sky itself but it is not so. If nothing else Prof. Gates has provided CNN with enough news cycles to skirt any issue any issue whatsoever now that Obama has delineated a roiling American racism in answer form.

[merh]

61. I think this case is an appropriate answer to your post.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6129582&mesg_id=6131290

Having worked in LEO, having trained LEO, having relatives that are LEO, I believe that Gates' version is much closer to the truth than the cop's version.

The cop was in the wrong and was racial profiling, he just was embarrassed by his own racist conclusion and instead of admitting his mistake, he called Gates to the front porch so he could try to make the "disturbing the peace" charge stick.

[bridgit]

68. My fiance was CHP...

As a capper to his time in uniform he was shot and later died after a simple traffic stop in the course of asking for valid ID. We may prefer one side of a story over and above another side of the same story but there remains at least two sides in that little fable to resolve or assign comparative states of negligence

[merh]

75. Read the man's report, it doesn't support the arrest.

They tried to make it work, but it fails.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17512830/Gates-Police-Report

I'm sorry about your fiance - I don't see how that even enters into this discussion.

[Raineyb]

62. Is it all black people of a certain stature or just Professor Gates

that you have a bug up your ass about? You've been exceedingly disrespectful of the man in these discussions. Is the asshole cop your brother or something or do you just think Professor Gates is uppity?

[bridgit]

65. It is my belief that Cornel would have deescalated with a perceivable success...

But of course that is my belief/opinion.

[Karenina]

82. Their laser focus on Skip, the UPPITY NEGRO is SO transparent.

And in doing so they are willing to forfeit their OWN 1st and 4th Amendment rights. It's quite entertaining. :freak:

[WeDidIt]

31. IT's wrong and it happens hundreds of times every day all across the country

and nothing ever happens to the cops who do it.

[LiberalFighter]

32. Cops need to be required to display better demeanor towards citizens.

Cops should know that their interaction with others may stir things up. And they should keep in mind that their attitude and how they handle a situation will determine the outcome. If they don't properly investigate in a reasonable manner and show respect towards a citizen then the outcome will usually escalate.

It was the cops presence and attitude that resulted in the so called "tumultuous behavior". If the "tumultuous behavior" was a legitimate charge then the officers should had been arrested too for causing the action to occur. Hmmm if there had been more than 2 people reacting the same way because of the cops shouldn't they be charged with inciting a riot? How about entrapment?

Cops are suppose to serve and protect. Not boss and harass. They should not expect anyone to act like slaves when in their presence. They are not the king of the realm. Their wages are paid for by the citizens of that town.

In a city the size of Cambridge (about 42,000), wouldn't a prominent citizen such as Henry Gates be known well enough by the police. Or are they that illiterate that they don't read the newspaper and/or watch the news?

The residence is on campus property.

[eShirl]

33. passersby were probably surprised and alarmed to see cops cuffing Professor Gates at his home

I know I would have found the scene very disturbing.

[LiberalFighter]

40. The residence is on campus. Makes me wonder why campus police weren't called to it initially?

Or at least, the police should had alerted the campus police of the incident when they got the call.

[SacredCow]

43. Yeah, that struck me as odd, too.... n/t

[-..__...]

48. His residence is just inside the campus...

with the street and other side being the responsibility of the city.

The pedestrian that reported the incident called 911 on her cell phone... which is why CPD responded and not the campus cops.

[quiller4]

53. but 911 dispatch erred by not notifying campus police. They

should have recognized the description of the property.

[-..__...]

56. Have you even dealt with or know how dispatch operates ...

on a day to day basis?

Trust me... it's a circus. Mistakes, poor judgment, confusion, etc are routine even on high priority calls.

I've never worked with Cambridge 911, but who nows the level of training their dispatch personnel have or what their SOP is
in an incident like that.

[Karenina]

44. Racist behaviour is a misdemeanor.

Calling it out is a FELONY. :evilgrin:

[ellacott]

52. I'm waiting to hear from his driver

[omega minimo]

54. "Surprised and alarmed" by the out of control white cop on the black homeowner?

[Catherine Vincent]

55. I've seen this cop and he looks much younger than Dr. Gates

If anything, the cop should have shown better respect to someone older than him after seeing his id.

[bridgit]

58. I don't care what color they are, tenured prof's too often think they're shit don't stink

[-..__...]

72. And that's what everyone seems to be ignoring here...

(media included), is that this is class issue involving a blue collar worker and a Harvard professor... and an "outsider" at that.

Generally speaking... cops and locals living and working in a college town have a distaste and loathing for students and faculty
("Good Will Hunting" is pretty damn close to reality WRT university/locals relationships).

Cambridge has the distinction of being home to both Harvard and MIT... with Boston University just across the river and Boston College
not far away).

Think the cops just might get a bit put off having to deal day after day with know-it-all asshole students with an attitude... which would also include the occasional professor?

But, cops vs college doesn't generate publicity, make headlines or soothe peoples guilt the way screaming "racism" does.

[Taitertots]

63. Gates was wrong

Sounds like a rich jerk off professor making his dreams of racism real by bringing this on himself. It is the self fulfilling prophecy. He was going to hit the hornets nest until he got stung so he could scream about the pain.


I've gotten in plenty of arguments with the police and never gotten arrested. The difference is that I was calm, respectful, and pleasant. I was stopped by the police in my backyard because someone called the police seeing me in my backyard late at night. They found me smoking out, I gave them my license, talked briefly with them, they gave me the pot back and left. Just don't act like a obnoxious child and you won't be treated like one. If you wouldn't act like that around a judge, then you probably shouldn't act that way around a police officer.


I know for a fact that racism in the police around me is real. I personally witnessed an officer exclaim his hatred for black people, and his intent to use the police authority to harass black person. However, I can't see racism being a factor in this case. If you scream at the police, refuse to show ID, act like a asshole, then you should expect to get taken in.

[bigmonkey]

70. Police behavior is not "natural" - They aren't like tigers or bulls.

From what you say, you just have to be always polite to the police or they will arrest you, and that's "natural." Here's the disagreement I have with you, or any other police apologist, in a nutshell - The police should not be able to arrest you simply because you are being disagreeable.

Really, you worship authority, and are an evangelist for that faith. This behavior on the part of Officer Jim Crowley is an offense to any rational, human cop. Where is the outrage on behalf of the good cops against such a jerk? Why go immediately for supporting the authoritarian behavior, when you could use it as an opportunity to point out how a good police officer would behave? Why excuse the inexcusable, when you could promote the laudable?

[Taitertots]

73. He wasn't just being disagreeable

I have been plenty disagreeable with the police and they handled it fine. I have refused to let them in my house, refused to let them search my car, kicked them out after inviting them into my house, told them I didn't appreciate the tone they were giving my friend. The difference is that I didn't create a problem.

I wonder why you are so combative about the police. How would a good police officer behave? How would a good human being behave? Give the police your ID and thank them for investigating and protecting your home. Now, How would a good police officer behave? Thank you for you ID, I see this is your house, thank you.

[bigmonkey]

76. Crowley didn't behave that way.

He arrested a homeowner, who had already identified himself, on his own property after reportedly refusing to give his name and badge number, on charges that were later dropped. How do you know that Prof. Gates "created a problem"? Does his arrest imply to you that he was insufficiently deferent to the natural authority of the police, and so he "naturally" suffered the consequences, unlike yourself, a person who knows "how to behave?"

No-one has reported any behavior that should have resulted in Prof. Gates' arrest. You are assuming either that we always have to give the police the benefit of the doubt, or that it's "natural" for the police to be able to arrest us whenever they feel like it.

Nope, both are servile attitudes, I'll have nothing of them. You promote internalized slavery if you want, just call it what it is.

[Taitertots]

80. Ok, Don Quixote, keep fighting those windmills

Would you try to act like that around a judge?
What would make you think you should act like that around a police officer?

People who have no respect for the justice system are like petulant children. I've gotten the badge number from plenty of police, I just didn't act like an asshole while doing it. It has nothing to do with being servile, it has to do with respect. If you respect yourself, the justice system, and our social obligations then you don't act like that.

Yes, he created a problem by not accepting the authority of the police. Like it or not the police have authority over you. The whole justice system has authority over you. You can try to fight it like angst filled teenager, or accept it as a function that benefits society; treat people with respect, act like a rational human being, and the system works for you.

If you feel you are being treated unfairly should you
A)Scream at them, refuse to cooperate, say "do you know who I am", interrupt them and repeatedly demand their badge numbers, and argue with them until they arrest you
B)Deal with them calmly and rationally, and when they are done ask them their names and/or badge numbers to file a complaint

[bigmonkey]

88. "Like it or not the police have authority over you"

You recognize no limits on that authority? The police determine the limits? The law doesn't constrain them at all?

On another thread, it's pointed out that it's the law in Massachusetts that a police officer must provide name and badge number when requested. This officer did not provide his badge number, and provided his name only on the porch. The officer broke the law. Does this matter to you?

Prof. Gates was in his own home, and had id'd himself to the officer. At that point the official business is done.

You have no evidence that Prof. Gates "acted like an asshole". You are also imputing to me behaviors that I don't evidence. You clearly believe that people like you qualify as the adults, once they have learned to act sufficiently servile in the presence of their "betters."

I hope you realize, eventually, that your attitude toward authority is too deferent. You are not a slave, and you shouldn't encourage others to behave as slaves either, in my opinion.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

85. sure you have

You've talked back to cops, you've thrown them out of your house, you've laid down the law and told them the way it's going to be. And they were fine with it. And you're using this opportunity to defend the police in this case.

Which part is a lie?

[Taitertots]

86. If you don't act like a Gates, they don't give you shit

I'm defending them because if you act like an asshole, then you are going to get shit. When they didn't treat me with respect, I calmly told them and advised them I would like them to leave. The same thing happened to me, but I was smoking pot when they showed up; we spoke, I gave them my license, they gave me back my pot and left.

I'm defending them because Gates was acting out of line.

[clear eye]

91. "The difference is that I was calm, respectful and pleasant."

Without having been present at the event, you are sure that "the difference" wasn't that you were white? You know that Prof. Gates was goading the officer? Not that he had himself been verbally abused and had a right to find out who the officer was who had been so out of line, in order to file a complaint? Couldn't be that Sgt. Crowley was taking pre-emptive action by arresting Gates so that when the complaint was filed it could be blamed on revenge for the arrest, not Crowley's bad behavior?

Speaking of unfounded accusations, how would you feel if I said it "sounds like" you don't believe black people should be "rich...professors"?

[sam kane]

94. He was in his OWN HOUSE. nt.

nt.

[TexasObserver]

66. Translation: Questioning Sgt Oink's Misconduct

Police in America will arrest you for talking back to them faster than for any crime, and they'll call it whatever pops into their head to rationalize arresting you for not kissing their butt.

[quiller4]

74. and charges are dropped and unless you have $$ and threaten

to sue, little happens. I hope Gates sues the Shit out of the Cambridge PD.

[BlooInBloo]

77. Get the fuck out Crowley. Seriously. Get the fuck out.

[augusta march]

78. Yeah...there are these wacky things called guns and people sometimes shoot them

at cops.:eyes:

Did you know that even PROFESSORS have killed people? What about that guy who recently killed his wife? So someone's stature doesn't mean shit.

[Gothmog]

81. Here is a link to the actual police report by Crowley

Here is al link to the police report by Sgt. Crowley. http://www.bluemassgroup.com/upload/david/gates_incident_report_redacted.pdf

[Karenina]

84. Sergeant James Crowley is fast on his way to becoming

the icon for white America. NO APOLOGY NECESSARY.

[redqueen]

90. Well this sure got unrec'd, didn't it?

I could've sworn it had far more than 19 yesterday.

[Fire1]

96. 'SOME' people can't handle the truth and MANY don't give

a shit one way or the other! That's fine with me b/c that works both ways.

[lib2DaBone]

99. Gates was arrested for ..."Contempt of Cop".....

How DARE a black man stand up and express his opinion of a Homeland Security Law Enfocement Sergeant!!!

How dare anyone question the absoulute police power that G.W. Bush has wrought upon us......

Obama should be working overtime to reign in the Transportation Security Administration Thugs as well as the rest of G.W. Bush Gestapo machine that Bush unleashed on America.