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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:46 PM
Original message
Bait and Switch on Public Option? No, The Sky Really Isn't Falling
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 07:30 PM by madfloridian
Interesting post on Crooks and Liars. I want it all done right now, I want complete health care change. I won't get it. But I want it done correctly, too.

Bait and Switch on Public Option? No, The Sky Really Isn't Falling

Several bloggers linked to this. They're taking the article in good faith and assume it's accurate in its conclusions (that the public option has been gutted and the idea of "reform" amounts to a bait and switch), and I just don't believe that.

The author doesn't even seem to understand how legislation is made. It's kind of like judging the way a finished room will look by painting a stripe on the wall: It's not the whole picture.

The bills are usually weakened at this point in the process - but they're fixed later in committee. One of the reasons it still works like this is so politicians can say, "I voted against that!" if part of a bill becomes controversial in his or her district. (Remember the thing with Kerry, where he said, "I actually did vote for the $87 billion before I was against it"? He's right. All politicians do it.) Some of the same politicians who are screaming on the teevee against this will be a lot more reasonable once the cameras aren't running. The final committee work is what counts.

So really, the sky isn't falling. I would tell you if I thought it was. I mean, I'm not exactly known as Obama's biggest booster, am I?

I'd rather ward off the attacks from the insurance companies and the Blue Dogs instead. It's no secret that I think single payer is the best solution - but I'm not going to try to poison this compromise bill to prove a point.


I don't want it done with the threats to cut Medicare payments and payments to hospitals who take care of patients with no health care. I want it done with a real public option, not the fake one that Howard Dean and others have warned us against.

If we have to wait, maybe people will speak up about cutting Medicare and hospital payments. I really do hope so. I was stunned to read that. I don't want a health care option at the expense of Medicare.

Obama plans 313 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid spending.

Reporting from Washington -- Under pressure to pay for his ambitious reshaping of the nation's healthcare system, President Obama today will outline $313 billion in Medicare and Medicaid spending cuts over the next decade to help cover the cost of expanding coverage to tens of millions of America's uninsured.

Among the proposed policy changes outlined by the president are:

* Reductions in payments to providers to reflect increased efficiencies in the system, which the White House estimates could save $110 billion over the next decade.

* Cuts in federal subsidies to hospitals that treat large populations of uninsured patients, estimated to save $106 billion over the next decade.


* Cuts in how much the federal government pays pharmaceutical companies to provide prescription drugs to seniors and others, estimated to save $75 billion over the next decade.


I can't find that acceptable. Maybe as they talk they will realize how many people that would devastate.

Maybe we can make time to get the Congress to focus on us. I doubt it, but maybe.

The Senate is "self-destructing."

ESQ: But isn't that a threat to the insurance companies? Especially at a time when we want to keep businesses healthy and people employed?

HD: This is one of the many problems the Senate is now having. They are focused on anything but the American people. But the insurance companies will be fine. It won't happen overnight, and they'll make plenty of money. But this is not a matter of making the insurance companies happy. This is a matter of making the 72 percent of the people who want a public option happy, including the 50 percent of Republicans who want a public option.

ESQ: Fifty percent of Republicans want a public option?

HD: Yeah. That's in a Kaiser poll and in a New York Times/CBS poll last week. The Senate is in the process of self-destructing. They are talking about managing health-care reform to make sure that a relatively small sliver of American industry is satisfied at the expense of 72 percent of their constituents. That's unbelievable.


The poster at Crooks and Liars ends with this:

I'm actually shocked to find the more I look at the long-term strategy here, the more I like it. The fact is, it will be a lot more politically difficult for members of Congress to vote against those future incremental improvements than to vote against the entire plan now. Once it's in place, and constituents start calling their elected officials with complaints about flaws in the bill, they're going to have to fix those problems - or at the very least, not get in the way of the solution.

Remember: Social Security only covered about half of the people when it first passed. It took almost 10 years to get there, but you couldn't take it away now. The voters would be furious. We won't get there overnight, but this bill will at least be a decent start.


I want the bill passed now, just the way I would like it to be. Ain't gonna happen.

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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Stunningly dishonest
* Reductions in payments to providers to reflect increased efficiencies in the system, which the White House estimates could save $110 billion over the next decade.

These are cuts to cover expected savings from the transfer to electronic records and similar savings.

* Cuts in federal subsidies to hospitals that treat large populations of uninsured patients, estimated to save $106 billion over the next decade.

If everybody is insured, then there won't be uninusred patients so this won't be spent.

* Cuts in how much the federal government pays pharmaceutical companies to provide prescription drugs to seniors and others, estimated to save $75 billion over the next decade.

This is the $80 billion they agreed to, it won't cut coverage.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. There are huge cuts due soon to Medicare.....it is alarming.
"Reductions in payments to providers to reflect increased efficiencies in the system, which the White House estimates could save $110 billion over the next decade."

That may refer to the new health care option we don't have, but doctors are worried about those cuts.

http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2009/jul/11/guest-commentary-medicare-cuts-will-dismantle-canc/

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2009/07/health_care_reform_could_cut_m.html

http://www.acc.org/thisweekatacc.htm

http://www.fiercehealthfinance.com/story/administration-plans-medicare-cuts-imaging-specialists/2009-07-08

There are others.

Why cut Medicare before we have a new plan in place? Why cut Medicare at all...why not expand it to everyone and fix the problems.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. They're fixing the problems
that's why they can make those cuts.

If you reduce 90% of uninsured people, you shouldn't pay people to take care of uninsured that don't exist?

Doctors? They don't want any of this. All they want is to take away lawsuits and liability and let them treat the richest and fuck everybody else. Why do you quote their "concerns"?

I never can understand your thinking process. The Medicare cuts are part of the entire package. It all goes together.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. They are cutting Medicare payments before they have a new program in place.
That is my thinking.

So you are saying they are going to dismantle Medicare as part of the health care reform.

Not sure I understand your thinking on that either.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. No they aren't, this is part of the package
and it is not dismantling Medicare.

One sentence at a time.

Should hospitals be paid for the uninsured if there are no more uninsured? Just that one question.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. They are making the cuts. There is no program in place.
It is not okay.

No matter how many unrecommends this post gets, it does address issues.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Answer the question n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I did answer it. There is no program in place. There are 45 + million uninsured.
:shrug:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. It's Part Of The House Bill
http://www.sfexaminer.com/politics/51410077.html

It won't get implemented if we don't get health care reform.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Sounds like they are planning on phasing out Medicare.
And letting the board decide the cuts so it won't affect them politically.

And those on Medicare will have to settle for what they can get.

Hope I am wrong, but that has been Zeke Emanuel's plan all along.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Whatever. Back you go. n/t
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Whatever. Back you go. n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Not dishonest at all. Needs to be discussed.
Talked to a couple of doctors lately who are very concerned. They want the traditional Medicare over all the new stuff.

If Obama is planning to scale back the private Medicare plans and leave the traditional alone, I am fine with that.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. New panel to decide Medicare payments....nod to Blue Dogs
http://www.californiahealthline.org/Articles/2009/7/22/White-House-House-Democrats-Reach-Deal-on-Medicare-Payments.aspx

"Wednesday, July 22, 2009
White House, House Democrats Reach Deal on Medicare Payments

Members of the fiscally conservative House Blue Dog Coalition and House Energy and Commerce Committee Chair Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) left a meeting at the White House on Tuesday with a tentative verbal agreement to grant an independent panel power to influence payment rates for government-run health care programs, such as Medicare, as part of House reform legislation (HR 3200), Politico reports (O'Connor, Politico, 7/22).

In the current system, Congress has more influence over payment rates and often abstains from politically tough votes to restrain Medicare costs, according to fiscal conservatives.

Under the proposal, the executive branch would have the power to implement Medicare cuts recommended by the independent panel.

Congress would have the ability to halt the cuts (Hitt/Bendavid, Wall Street Journal, 7/22).
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. And increase payments to rural hospitals
That's part of the problem too. They also don't want the public option tied to Medicare because they don't want another program that doesn't pay doctors enough money. You happened to pick one of the things where the Blue Dogs are actually right.
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Once the insurance companies get the mandate in place
anyone using a government program or receiving subsidized insurance will be scapegoated as the major drains on the system. The incremental changes will be of the same cost cutting variety that traditionally hits the least among us the hardest. The republicans live on that type of cruelty and the democrats will oblige just like welfare reform.

The insurance companies control the reform today and will for the short miserable life of the puny public option which requires 130,000,000 to succeed competitively and bring down costs but will only be allowed a measly 10,000,000 members by 2019.

I find the willingness of people to legally shackle themselves permanently to a completely untrustworthy for profit private business to be astounding in it's ignorance and naiveté.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. I expected the unrecommends. I am fine with it.
It needs to be said that Medicare cuts are going to be devastating.
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
20. It depends on where the cuts are made in Medicare.
I'm okay with ridding Medicare of the Medicare Advantage programs that are more expensive to Medicare.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I have often said I am okay with that also.
BUT I think our party needs to clarify a little. People on Medicare should not be phased out, and some are worried that is happening.

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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. good idea to clarify
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. deep cuts to medicare before the plan -- and still
no power to medicare to actually negotiate for drug prices.

will the new 'panel' negotiate for drugs under the new plan?

or do we stay with the bushco idea of drug relief for medicare reipients?

as improved as obama made to things like the doughnut holes -- nothing could replace medicare actually negotiating for things like drug prices.

my notion is that all together this is an amazingly hobbled together reform -- that won't do much for the people.

we still ask the people who broke the thing to fix the thing.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. This is part of the House Bill
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-24-09 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. what is part of the house bill? that they are going to institutionalize deep cuts
to medicare -- yes they are.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
23. A few comments from the C&L link. Interesting.
"This is a lot like software development. It will take a long time to write and debug the legislative program, because they have to see how it plays with all the other factors. It will be FULLY implemented by 2013.

But in the meantime, some very good things will go into effect immediately - like the prohibition against rejecting people for preexisting conditions. That will be a lifesaver for so many people.

The reality is, we have a Democratic president, House and Senate who are HIGHLY unlikely to support anything that's openly radical. To them, this compromise is radical enough."
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"Thanks Susie for your comment. I want single payer too and have argued against a public option many times. However, I understand that we must get something moving which involves getting the legislation out of subcommittees.

Keep fighting!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

"One benefit of universal health care..

.. that I don't think anyone has considered yet: it will remove some of the incentive for companies to replace full-time workers with part-timers and self-employed contractors. Because after all, if they were honest they'd admit that they hire that way to avoid the cost of benefits.

I believe it will greatly improve efficiency in the workplace to have people who have been on the job long enough to know their way around the shop. The way it is now even the full-time workers are often in jeopardy of dismissal under pretext soon after they qualify for full benefits. There's even a euphemism for such experienced employees: those who have "exceeded the company's expectation of loyalty."


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