Do parents read their children's textbooks?

[SoCalDem]

I ask this because of the usual falderal over the Bible & Texas textbooks.

A child only has one crack at education..one time to "do" 5th grade, 9th grade, etc. (except for the obvious opportunities to "repeat a grade"..:(..)

I know that people are busy these days, but if you want to make sure that your child grows up knowing more history than :

the cherry tree chopping
the river crossing
the "walks a mile to return a penny"
the crack in the Liberty Bell
the Niña, the Pinta & the Santa Maria
1492, the ocean, blue
etc

you might want to read ahead, and "teach" them the other things they should be learning.

I'm not advocating that they be turned into little anarchists, or that Zinn is appropriate in its pure form, for a 2nd grader, but parents should augment their kids' "school book-learning" with some obvious facts that are left out.

When our boys were older, I was particularly peeved that the teachers taught "the wars", but rarely the CAUSES. Just having kids memorize dates, places & generals does not "teach" them much.

there are age-appropriate ways to do this, and the kids appreciate knowing the "back-story".

All this Irish stuff from Kennedy's passing reminds me of when my youngest was studying about American history, and learned by extra-curricular reading, that there was a lot more to the Irish immigration than "the potato" famine.

Google makes it all so much easier too.

[katsy]

1. My children are in 3rd grade.

They have had no books thus far (up to 2nd grade). Only handouts. Cartoon pages.

How's that for scary?

We live in the public library. Seriously, I wish they would get textbooks.

We buy them workbooks for math and science and they are great readers as they grew up in libraries.

As for history, I'm Geek-American. They are little anarchists with the same disdain of authority that I have. :evilgrin:

[SoCalDem]

4. Do you mean Greek-American??

:rofl:

not that there's anything wrong with being a Geek-American:rofl:

[katsy]

8. lol.

lol are the only keys on my keyboard that aren't sticking.

on edit: geeky greek

R & M keys require brute force!

[SoCalDem]

7. How sad.. I remember going to "School Specialty Supply"

in August to get my books for the coming year.. Nothing smells like a new textbook.. then I would take them home and start reading ahead.. this was weeks before school started ..

[katsy]

9. Things must be pretty tight.

It is sad. Our children's future has been trashed by the corruption of government.

And I'm in CT. America must be the new somalia of education. Where are the textbooks?

[spin]

23. Actually we need to move into the current century...

and use the power of computers to educate.

If you've ever watch children or people play interactive computer games such as World of Warcraft, you can see the power of power of computers to create intricate and very detailed environments.

Younger children absolutely love these games and are quite proficient at solving and winning them. Getting them to crack a textbook is a major challenge.

The same technology used in World of Warcraft could easily duplicate, for example, Ancient Rome. Students could create a character and wander down the streets of Julius Caesar's Rome, visit and watch the Roman Senate, talk to citizens and slaves, visit homes to see how Roman's lived. They could be challenged to complete a quest that would be educational and fun.

Is the goal of education reading textbooks and memorizing dates or actually understanding a subject? Textbooks could supplement the computer programs. Teachers could discuss the simulation with the students to insure that they had learned something valuable.

Computers could easily be used to teach subjects other than history. Rosetta Stone is a program that has proven successful at teaching speaking proficiency in a foreign language. The company I worked for before I retired was using computer programs to train employees with great success and most of my co-workers were glad that they didn't have to suffer through a boring instructor-led class to qualify or re-qualify in a skill.

Usually every time I suggest this I get flamed. If you disagree, let me ask you would you rather read about the Roman Senate in a textbook or be able to use a computer program to simulate walking into the Senate, sitting down and talking to a Senator about current events in his time. Which wold be more educational?

[katsy]

26. You are correct. I'd rather feel the experience, so to speak.

And my kids do have home use of the computer and I like games and sims.

And I also believe that they need to be good readers to navigate. That's where books are the most valuable tool. At age 8, my son has read and understood the entire Harry Potter saga. By the same token, at age 8, he's never had a textbook issued by any school and I'm left wondering WTF %^&*&^%^&. Where is all the money going to? There isn't a computer on every school desk.

We get copies of workbook pages that become shabby and wrinkled and well... learning is just so bloody sloppy. I want schools to give my kids books that serve to not only instruct, but help me instill in them a sense of order and pride in their work and good study habits. I do it via library books and workbooks, but why aren't books introduced to date? Maybe they'll get some this year. It would be a nice surprise.

[spin]

27. The Harry Potter series was fascinating to one of my gradchildren...

Those are fairly large books and he consumed each one in two days or less. The younger grandchild had no interest in the Harry Potter books, but is an absolute whiz on computer games. School bored the hell out him and the quality of the teachers in the area of Florida the I live in is dismal. The school he attends is F rated and has been for years.

So he had to go to summer school last year. As an experiment, the school used computers. He flew through the courses with no problem and actually enjoyed the experience. His summer school teacher was amazed. He just looked at summer school as another computer game to beat.

But I agree that textbooks are important and should be an important supplement to computer training and sims. We could use some of that stimulus money to get computers and computer programs for every school and text books for reference.

In no time at all, we would have the best educated high school students in the world.

We could also use modern technology to replace text books. Amazon.com has a device called a Kindle that can hold up to 1,500 books and is as thick as a magazine and lighter than a typical paperback. It has a built-in dictionary with instant look up and an excellent search feature that allows you to search your entire library and the web.

Just like our healthcare system, we need a dramatic change and a whole new way to approach education. And just like heathcare, the vested interests will block change to preserve their jobs and profit.

[katsy]

30. You know what you're talking about.

Computers, Reading devices (or books), smaller class sizes. All of these things that progressive societies work to give every one of their children are valuable tools.

Unfortunately, tonight I heard (on cnn) that schools are finding ways to cut back. They want to start charging for extra-curriculum activities. (our school already charges) They buy fewer textbooks. (My kids haven't had any up to now) Class sizes are bigger. And still... not enough computers in classes to make a difference.

The most sage thing you said: "And just like heath care, the vested interests will block change to preserve their jobs and profit."

[spin]

33. I agree that books are valuable but in my grandkid's school...

there are no lockers. The kids carry their books back and forth to school in book bags. I can't believe how heavy these bags are for young students.

One reason I like the idea of a Kindle for school.

[spin]

34. I should add...

I loved reading as a child and spent much of my time enjoying books rented from a library. I enjoyed Shakespeare until a high school English teacher ruined the experience by a deep analysis of Macbeth. I pointed out that Macbeth was written as a play for an audience of the seventeenth century. That didn't go over well.

Burt I still love reading and studying history. Modern technology can make learning a far more interesting experience for our children who have grown up in the age of computers. Text books, blackboards and teachers were the modern technology available in the 60's. Times change, education should keep up.

I was just talking to one of my grand children who said his favorite class this year is American history. The teacher uses a computer in conjunction with a projector and a laser pointer. It works. A good teacher will find a way to reach and interest his students.

But even a good teacher is limited by available resources. He can't develop a great interactive sim game on his own. It can be done if we wake up and find the programmers to work on overhauling our educational system.

[Igel]

28. I'll only comment on Rosetta Stone.

I've seen great reviews, by monolingual parents.

SEELangs (Slavic & East European Languages List) had an interesting discussion. A home-schooling parent had contacted an instructor and asked about computer-assisted language learning, specifically Rosetta Stone. Native speakers panned the Russian version, pedagogy specialists panned that version, people who had simply taught Russian panned it.

Seems they use the same visual sequence for every language. It's cheaper, but it slights differences between language. This leads to some really strange situations, however. Take Russian. If you want to say 'go' you have a variety of words that a native speaker would use, depending upon context: do you go once and stay, do you go and return, do you frequently go? Are you going, but doing so with reference to going away or to something? As one native speaker said, almost nobody would ever actually say the simplest form of the verb in the past tense, parallel to "went"; it often sounds a bit weird, it's not the first choice in nearly any context. Yet in the RS course, since the pictures lacked sufficient context, it's the most common form.

They had some examples from the German edition that were equally strange (SEELangs isn't just for American Slavists, and not all American Slavists have English or Russian as their L1), and the cross-posting to the Germanic sight led to the same evaluation.

If you have absolutely nothing else, Rosetta Stone'll have to do. Better than most such things. For a number of products the reviews came back: "No, not really better than nothing"; for a few the reviews were, "Nothing is better than this ... no, really, given a choice of this for free or nothing, leap at the nothing option." As I said, it's usually monolingual parents who say it's great when they hear their little Carmen making some odd non-English sound.

[katsy]

31. Interesting.

Do you know any thing about Muzzy? The BBC language course?

[Kerrytravelers]

2. As an educator who works in an Indepent Study Program, I'm constantly working with a large variety

of texts.

The lack of information is sickening. I am constantly suggesting supplemental materials to round out the education.


But really, we're so focused on the testing, we don't have time for actual learning.

[Posteritatis]

6. Do you find any noteworthy exceptions?

My experience with education so far has been a resounding "meh," but I've come across a few not-common-enough gems out there. Usually with teachers, but occasionally with educational materials.

[LeftHander]

3. Textbooks are more like magazines....

Mostly pictures.

[SoCalDem]

5. I was APPALLED when my son's AP English class

assigned Great Expectations, and showed them the frigging MOVIE..first..

and not even the GOOD version of the movie:(

[Fleshdancer]

12. WTF??!?!

Really? :wow: I'm shocked that his teacher would do that. I just accepted that it was common knowledge that you should ALWAYS read the book first if you're going to watch the movie.

[KatieW]

15. Same here. And usually the book is much better than the movie version.

I would think that could turn a student off of the book, if they didn't care for the movie presentation. Also,the movie version is often missing stuff found in the book.

[Spike89]

14. Why?

I'm no book hater (creating books pays my bills) but I don't see what is appalling about this. It would be appalling if the movie was intended to replace the reading, but as a way to get the kids engaged...well, if it works, great! My 20-year-old stepdaughter hadn't read a book by her own choosing...ever (despite a mom and step-dad who are both book editors). She watched some silly vampire movie/TV series and now is plowing through the books that the movies were based on and gushing daily about "how much MORE there is to the story!"

The reality is that kids read less (if you discount txting, etc.). In a lot of ways, it makes more sense to show the movie first, then expose them to the book--it can really make the advantages of print obvious. Showing the movie afterwards can and often is a bad idea...most movie scripts focus on the action and visual parts of a book (obviously) and by neccessity pare the plotline into as simple a cliche' as possible.

Of course, a good teacher can engage kids either way and a poor teacher will have trouble getting kids interested in candy, playing, and each other. Don't freak about your kids' teacher's methods, look to see if they work.

[Fleshdancer]

20. I can't speak for anyone else, but for me...

watching the movie first would make it more difficult to read the book if I didn't enjoy the movie. Actually, even if I did enjoy the movie, I know for a fact I wouldn't have read the book in school because I already knew the story so, as a teenager, it would have seemed pointless. Besides, it just seems like an easy way out to just let the students watch the movie first. Yes, they'll know the story and yes they'll probably be able to reference it during the tests to receive their AP credit, but it's not teaching.

[Ms. Toad]

21. I'm with you.

My daughter was very slow to read for enjoyment, even though both parents throughout her childhood started the day fighting over newspaper sections (read cover to cover before anything else in the day), and rarely went anywhere without a book, magazine, etc. in hand.

The turning point seemed to be the Harry Potter movies. She watched the first one without having cracked the book - and then something changed. Before the most recent movie installment came out she re-read all of the books leading up to it, and was busily discussing what they left out from the book that they should have kept in, all of the subtle things in the movie and how they related - or didn't to the book. And - a couple of weeks ago she went out on her own and purchased the Count of Monte Cristo and another classic, the name of which escapes me.

Whatever it is that flips the switch - I'm all for it.

[Fleshdancer]

10. I plan to supplement my daughter's education the same way my mom did with me

I had the unique and wonderful experience of growing up with a mom who started college after I was born. She did go through my textbooks, specifically social studies, and would supplement my lessons with the more colorful and in-depth info you don't normally learn until college or by reading biographies, etc.

My favorite memory was finding out who the "Yellow Rose of Texas" was and what she did. Was it "appropriate" to learn about her at the time? Probably not (although I can't remember how old I was exactly) but it did make Texas History much more interesting and it was just one of the many things that helped foster my love for learning today. Kids can handle far more information than we give them credit for and by discussing the back-story of historical events, we allow them to grow their critical thinking skills...something that isn't addressed enough in school systems in my opinion. When in doubt, have the conversation.

[CrispyQ]

11. If I could, I would give every child in America this book & encourage every adult to read it too.

"We the People: A Call to Take Back America" by Thom Hartmann

It's written in a comic book fashion, but the content is anything but comic. It's a quick read, that is basically a civics refresher course, although I don't recall corporate personhood being taught in my 5th grade civics class.

http://www.we-the-people-book.com/

snip...

America faces its greatest threat since the Civil War. The worst fears of the Founders are being realized, as powerful corporate interests have taken over our culture and representative government. We the People now face a fundamental choice: take back our country ... or do nothing, and become victims of tyranny and empire.

In We the People: A Call to Take Back America, Thom Hartmann (the acclaimed author of Unequal Protection and The Last Hours of Ancient Sunlight) tells a compelling story — of how a government of, by, and for the people has been replaced by corporate domination. Through brilliant analysis and Neil Cohn ‘s imaginative illustrations, this fully graphic book illuminates the central dynamics of American politics.

He reveals the forgotten history of the Founders’ intent and the devious way that corporations came to possess “human” rights. He explains what the Boston Tea Party actually was, how the events of the 19th century’s “Second American Revolution” resemble today’s administration, and how “corporatists” disguised as conservatives are looting assets from We the People’s common ownership through privatization schemes.
=====

There are two excerpts from the book at this site. I highly recommend the "Loss of the Commons" to get a feel for the message of book.

[stopbush]

13. Yes, and I don't always like what I see.

My daughter's sixth-grade Ancient History textbook last year dealt with religious beliefs of the time. While the book treated Egyptian, Roman and Greek god myths as myths, it treated the Judeo-Xian god myths as facts.

It also stirred the pot with biased "Think for yourself" questions like, "Would Jesus' disciples have spread his message if they didn't believe he was resurrected?" The question assumes 1) that Jesus and his disciples really existed, and 2) that he was resurrected. A similar "Think for yourself" question appeared in the Roman history section, asking, "What is it about the story of Romulus and Remus that places it in the realm of myth?"

Hmm. So Xian myths are history while Roman myths are myths. Funny that people resurrecting from the dead doesn't "place a story in the realm of myth," while stories of feral children being raised by animals (which may have actually happened before, as in the case of Victor d'Aveyron or Amala and Kamala: both documented stories of feral children that have not - as yet - been proven to be hoaxes) does.

In addition, an entirely fanciful "history" of the early Xian movement was presented in the textbook that was as a-historic as one would fear. Jerry Falwell would have approved.

I complained to the teacher and the school and my daughter was allowed to opt out of the testing on the Xian church and to do a substitute project instead. But the fact that religious myths are being presented through the bias of the Judeo-Xian prism didn't seem to bother the administrators at the school who assured me that the textbook in question "met the California standards."

[SoCalDem]

17. That is shocking..

I don't recall religion even being mentioned when I was in school..except for the obvious stuff like the Reformation & the Crusades..

But looking back, I do recall that everyone thought the Crusades were a wonderful "adventure" to "free" the Holy Land from the evil barbarians:rofl:

For those of us who went on to college, we eventually learned more, but I shudder to think of what little knowledge the ones who don't study further, or the ones who drop out end up "knowing".

[Xithras]

16. My kids are cursed with being raised by 2 teachers. Everything gets reviewed.

And there are a lot of "fill in the blanks" discussions that occur around our dinner table.

[SoCalDem]

18. Not cursed..lucky n/t

[Xithras]

19. Not if you ask them :) n/t

[Ms. Toad]

22. Then the next step is to teach your child

to understand the difference between the answer the teacher expects on the test and the fuller more accurage answer that will probably be marked as incorrect . . . a valuable but different lesson.

[lostnfound]

24. Zinn has a kid's version. It's pretty good. nt

[SoCalDem]

25. Great.. The "back-stories" are the "hook" that gets kids interested

some kids are lucky and get teachers who teach more..and some get the "by the book" drones:(

[Prophet0621]

29. Part of the problem is too many schools now teach to the test

Here in Va was have SOL (Standards Of Learning) Kids get some form of them every year partially to practice for the big ones (3rd, 6th, 9th and 12th grades, don't pass the tests don't pass that grade) and for school funding. The better the scores the more money for the schools. Now students only learn what will be on the test and teachers are pushed to ensure they know it and not to sidetrack.
It was a bad idea from the beginning concocted by some bureaucrats with their heads up their asses. Other states have followed then NCLB and Obama is talking standardized testing. Good idea Pres!! :sarcasm:

[Lars39]

32. The History of US is a wonderful resource for homelearning:

http://www.joyhakim.com/history.html