Brace Yourself, Proud Liberals: We're About To Be Kissed Off.

[David Zephyr]

SENATOR DeMINT IS GOING TO BE DANCING: President Barack Obama is about to make Republican Senator DeMint's day by bringing about his own Waterloo without the GOP even lifting a finger against him. Obama is inching right up to the big kiss off to the American Left in order to appear "moderate" and "middle of the road" to the American People, who are already wondering what in the hell he stands for?

OBAMA JUST CAN'T CUT THE MUSTARD, HE'S NOT GOING TO BE A GREAT LEADER, IT'S JUST NOT IN HIM: Anyone who's read any of my postings here knows that I've been very pessimistic about Obama's healthcare "reform" from the beginning and have always said we'd wind up with a co-op run by insurance executives and crooked politicians like Tom Daschle. Well, I haven't changed my mind. Why not? Because if Obama was truly in favor of expanding Medicare or having a public option, he would have demanded it from Congress. He never did and his silence speaks very loudly.

IT'S DEJA VU WITH DICK MORRIS ALL OVER AGAIN: Apparently, Obama is about to play the old card trick invented by Dick Morris for Bill Clinton to use against our own party in the 1990's: Triangulation. You know the theater: "Play the Left as loonies and the Right as loonies and yourself as the "reasonable man" in the center; pass some legislation, congratulate yourself and your approval ratings will soar. Not this time.

TIME FOR SOME MATH: Public opinion and approval ratings that politicians lust for (yes, Obama devotees, he is a politician), are an amalgamation of all sorts of Americans. Obama will not win one Republican voter's "approval" with his upcoming, soon-to-be televised big suck-up to Insurance Corporations. And then he can subtract away the Leftist Base of the Democratic Party because this will truly be a betrayal to a great number of those that worked for him BECAUSE of the policies he promised, not because of his personality. Obama will sell out an entire generation of Americans to the Insurance Cartel and we won't see an opportunity like this again for eons to come. Obama's popularity will sink like a stone and he'll wonder where all his friends went.

EIGHT MONTHS IN OFFICE AND WHAT DO WE HAVE? Two escalating wars. Taxpayer bailout by the trillions to crooks on Wall Street. A White House run by Goldman Sachs, gays and lesbians cruelly being discharged wholesale out of the Armed Forces, the cementing of "faith-based" funding and Bush's blurring of church and state, and more.

SO LITTLE REALLY HAS CHANGED SINCE BUSH LEFT OFFICE. Wire-tapping and domestic spying? Still going on. Holding suspects in other nations to avert the U.S. law? Yep, still there. Illegal prison in Cuba? Yep, still operating like the Club Med we were told it was.

STILL, IN FAIRNESS, I WILL ADMIT, THE FURNITURE HAS CHANGED IN THE WHITE HOUSE: For eight years, those of us on the Left were clear out in the back of the White House in a trash can. But now, we can be proud. We've arrived. Now, we've moved up to the front of the First Family's residence: We are the brand-spanking new door mat.

[Teaser]

1. fail.

.

[slay]

54. Yes, your reply did fail

a . is not a reply but whatever hater :evilgrin:

[SingaporeExpat]

140. +1

[mopinko]

62. +1 fail

sheesh. can you say flamebait? i knew you could.

[Name removed]

189. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cliffordu]

2. Thanks for your concern.

[grantcart]

45. Its a contest to see who can be the most aggrieved before the facts are in hand

[cliffordu]

70. Most of the time I win going away, but this OP has me flummoxed out of the gate.

[derby378]

90. self-delete

[recycled]

190. No thanks for your robotic approval...Enjoy having the insurance

companies catered to!:bounce:

[ananda]

3. I'm a loud and proud liberal leftie..

.. and I knew from the beginning that Obama
was going to veer right.

He was not my choice for president, and I
only voted for him because I thought the
alternative was worse.

[David Zephyr]

11. And you are not alone.

:)

[SammyWinstonJack]

101. Nope not alone!

:hi:

[David Zephyr]

148. We don't have to compromise even when others do.

And when they rationalize this soon to be another broken promise by Obama, hold your head held high. :hi:

[byebyegop]

17. Then put on your confederate flag t-shirt, grab your 'moran' sign and hit a teabag party. n/t

[pnorman]

36. Good idea! Let's run it up the flagpole, and see who burns it!

I know where you're coming from with that comment, and I'm with you there. But I strongly object to your trashing of a fellow DUer in that manner.

pnorman

[unapatriciated]

60. I don't understand how you could be with him on comparing the op to a teabagger.

Labor and many progressives have already come out against anything less than a public option.
Do you feel we are the same as teabaggers? For voicing concern that President Obama is backing away from the Public Option, which is the compromise. He is now telling us he is willing to give the Republicans and the Insurance Cartel what they want, Co-Ops. I walked a picket line for over four months a few years ago because the company used those same tactics in their negotiations.
The republican party is not negotiating in good faith and in my opinion it's time to strike.

[byebyegop]

88. If you cannot appreciate just how significant a change Obama represents......

.....then you are no better than the teabaggers!

[NoSheep]

121. DING DING AND ANOTHER DING!

[unapatriciated]

129. Sorry can't agree with calling a fellow Duer

who is passionate about real health care reform a confederate flag t-shirt wearing moran sign waving teabagger
We know Obama is far superior than bush or what mCcain would of given us.
That is why we push for what we know he can achieve.

[unapatriciated]

128. If you can't appreciate why we do not call out other DUer's

for voicing an opinion may I suggest you read the rules.

[alarimer]

144. What change?

Same old, same old as far as I can tell.

Secrecy? Check
Rendition? Check
Illegal wars? Check

Doesn't look like much change from here.

[okieinpain]

137. I'm just curious, what would you do if you were president. suppose

reid has just told you there will not be enough votes with the pubic option. what would you do as leader to get those votes. just curious.

[unapatriciated]

139. well I'm not the president...

but I do know that a bill without a public option is not really reform and will do little to bring down the cost of health care.
Labor has called the blue dogs bluff and drawn a line in the sand. Maybe he should follow their lead. We don't need the republicans so why bother with them. They have already made it quite clear they block anything Obama tries to do.

[okieinpain]

176. that is true, very true. but unfortunately we have several dems that are

going to take up that mantel for the repugs. being honest I would love to see a universal health care option, it makes sense to me. but I don't want to go from the frying pan to the fire. I don't understand why we just can't buy into mediacare, or really why can't the government act as the employer and shop around for the best insurance bid, and people could buy into the policy that they like. just like we do now.

[unapatriciated]

57. sorry, but he is more in the league of 'Billionaires for Wealth Care'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHVwrCzRUX0

maybe you should join them at a tea party.
Public Option was the compromise to single payer and now we are hearing that we won't even get that.
Co-op's are the Insurance Cartels compromise, the only reason they push it is they know it will fail.
Many of us are willing to compromise with a public option, but know that anything less is doomed to fail.
For you to compare us, who are passionate about real health care reform with confederate flag t-shirt wearing moran sign waving teabaggers says volumes about you.
You should be helping us convince President Obama that a strong Public Option is the only compromise we can afford to make.
Labor gets it, and has drawn a line in the sand.
Try supporting us instead of insulting us.

[dgibby]

85. Righteous!

+1

[David Zephyr]

156. Well said!

:thumbsup:

[leftofthedial]

119. I got a teabag for you right here

sucker

[inna]

150. what a thoroughly "moranic" comment.

:thumbsdown:

[recycled]

191. Grab the Kool-Aid, Dear Heart: all you support is

insurance companies. Yay!!!! More for them, less for those of us who need PUBLIC OPTION!:eyes:

[GreenArrow]

110. yep.

.

[WCGreen]

136. Really not alone...

[gratefultobelib]

4. Well, you're just a bundle of sunshine.

[David Zephyr]

6. Consider it immunization for the great let down to come.

I wish it were not to be, but it is.

[DURHAM D]

5. The only way we might get actual reform is if Obama becomes a great American -

and decides to go for broke, knowing full well he will be a one term President.

I ask him to do just that.

[havocmom]

9. So, they can just undo whatever gets accomplished?

Seriously, is that how it goes down?

[DURHAM D]

18. So far he has not spent any political capital.

You want 7 more years of that?

[havocmom]

23. Did you mistake my questions for dispute? No, REALLY, I want to know

What the fuck good is ANY of it? The insane working for the totally corrupt will just destroy ANY good ANYBODY does.

Yeah, I am that disheartened. Short of a plague that just hits corporate puppets and hate filled delusionals, I just don't see any way to improve things and not have them destroyed in short order at all.

[David Zephyr]

14. Wouldn't that be a shocker, Durham D?

Sadly, we are going to be betrayed.

[HughBeaumont]

66. Name one Republican or Democrat that can beat him.

Seriously, I cannot.

[KoKo]

96. If we Dems don't watch out...it could be Gingrich or Cheney.

Amazing that we were told Cheney was an "old guy with several heart attacks who wouldn't make it through the "first term." Hmmm...instead of wondering about Obama's Birth Certificate some folks should have been checking out Cheney's Medical Records. For a guy with his "supposed heart history" he's either a Vampire or some other form of life that we don't know about yet to still keep going with his weight and what appears to be the "terrible stress" of his fighting the terrorists to keep us safe.

There's something about Cheney...

[Cant trust em]

7. Oh, I thought something new had happened.

You're right. I have read your other posts. This one doesn't provide any new information.

[msongs]

8. so who won the election in 2008 exactly??????? nt

[David Zephyr]

19. The million dollar question.

It's worth asking.

[Hannah Bell]

27. follow the money.

[QC]

95. The ones who win every election: Big Money, Inc. n/t

[David Zephyr]

151. Yep.

The people that own the country are going to continue to control it and to have their priviledges protected at the expense of the working class and poor and their very health and lives.

I'm glad to see you feel the same way, QC. But then, I've known you so long, that it is no surprise to me. We never need to compromise our convictions just because the President is a "Democrat".

[QC]

159. Lately, it seems that we are expected to hold any position the president holds.

It's certainly been an education, seeing people who were playing more-progressive-than-thou only a few short months ago now embracing merit pay and charter schools and union-busting and extraordinary rendition and Blackwater and all manner of other right wing bullshit.

It's like they are all discovering their inner Joe Liebermans.

I really hate what Dear Leaderism has done to this place--and our party.

[David Zephyr]

166. Zinn called the Democratic Party a safety valve after GOP excesses.

Nothing changes, but people feel better. "Leaderism". Yeah. Ooops, get your pompoms out, the disciple brigade might get uptight. "Their inner-Joe Liebermans" -- poetic. :)

[QC]

170. Zinn is right, and I sometimes think that's what Obama was chosen to do--

to provide the comforting feel of change without actually, you know, changing things much.

[katanalori]

10. ok, I am thoroughly depressed

and you forgot about Blackwater/xe still in business. I hope it is obvious that McPalin would have
been far worse - but that is little consolation. Hanging on here to a thread of hope for single payer -
just barely hanging on.

[dionysus]

178. then the OP accomplished its goal.

[David Zephyr]

184. I did forget Blackwater.

IndianaGreen posted an article called "Bush's Third Term" here at the DU. It was a hard pill to swallow reading it, but it rang true with a sound report of what has transpired since the residents changed in the White House.

Thanks for your reminder about Blackwater.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DURHAM D]

20. Is that anything like "America love it or leave it"?

Sure sounds like it. Could I see your ownership papers?

[byebyegop]

40. Nope, more like if you don't like then hit a teabag party and hold up a sign of "Obama is a Nazi"

Get the picture?

[QC]

97. Hmmmm. Your style is very familiar. n/t

[ruggerson]

141. +1

[QC]

157. You noticed, too, eh?

So when does the homophobic flame-baiting begin? That's usually the flame-out phase.

[QC]

183. Guess who got tombstoned again? n/t

[Teaser]

49. no. more like "you're boring me."

please stop failing so hard.

[byebyegop]

89. Your giving liberals a bad name by acting like such a whiner! n/t

[WorseBeforeBetter]

124. You're giving liberals a bad name by not understanding contractions and possessives. (n/t)

[inna]

155. no, he is not, because clearly he's not a liberal.

i'm sorry, but i just know it. (call it, "intuition".) i'm surprised he hasn't been tombstoned yet.

[QC]

160. He has been here many times before. Sort of our own Shirley Maclaine.

Keep watching and you will soon see a spectacular homophobic flameout. That's his usual style.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

182. Yeah, I'm with you on that.

They're (their?) so transparent... ;-)

[unapatriciated]

132. Then over 70% of us are whiners.

last poll showed over 70% in favor of public option,
Labor is in favor of a public option.
I suspect you are not too worried about liberals getting a "bad name".
Since you are the one doing all the name calling in this thread.

[David Zephyr]

21. Can't. I'm on the front porch now along with you.

It's our new role. Together. Doormats.

[Mari333]

64. LOL

[KoKo]

100. I take issue with "Front Porch"....seems to me to be "Back Porch" and the light has burned out...

so it's just us and some dogs howling in the night...And, those dogs have been abused...

[Juche]

13. I'd wait until Obama gives his speech first

To be fair, 'the left' cannot be written off as easily as people like Rahm want to believe. the CPC and the black, hispanic and asian caucuses in the house all support a public option, and they have 100+ members.

Trumka of the AFL-CIO said if politicians do not support a public option or EFCA, don't ask the union for help.

Liberals, who donate hundreds of millions to democratic and progressive causes and help get dems elected will be pissed.

Various dem orgs in various states as well as town hall meetings are telling dem politicians 'you can't count on our support if you move to the right'. Kent Conrad was told this, so were the senators from Colorado.


I know the dems are insanely stupid (they trusted Dick Morris, who is not only a GOP shill but a moron to boot. Look up his 2008 election predictions). However, if dems throw unions, liberals and the CPC under the bus they will totally fuck themselves over.

[BlooInBloo]

15. lolol!

[GhostOfMollyIvins]

113. look in the mirror?

[FrenchieCat]

16. Is this due to the Politico Article?

:shrug:

Because if it is, they just love you that much more!

[David Zephyr]

26. I wish it were.

I admire you, FrenchieCat. I did through the primaries. You know I was there with you. This is going to be a big letdown for so many that were audacious with his hope. I will still champion him when he actually does (not says) the correct thing, but I don't see much of change coming. That's really sad.

[FrenchieCat]

32. So where did you get all of speculative conclusions from?

:shrug:

I live in the present, and you seem to have seen the future.....
considering that you are talking in past tense about a current situation.
How can it be that you have so much insight into things that haven't really
happened yet?....is it the pundits manipulating the narrative that you are falling for,
or did you really expect Obama to be the perfect President and have all of your wishes
ready for you to tally in 8 months?

You speak of what Obama hasn't done, and then list a litany....
and you also say that there is more.

If I look at what has occurred to date, I won't say that everything I wanted to happen did,
but I'm a much more long term visionary; obviously.

[subcomhd]

22. thanks for the optimism, sunshine nt

[pnwmom]

24. So you've been very pessimistic from the very beginning -- all that tells us

is that you've been very pessimistic from the beginning.

It doesn't prove anything about Obama.

[David Zephyr]

28. Where has he ever said that he would insist on a public option to counter the insurance stranglehold

He's the president. He's the one great with words. And these are the ones he refuses to say...because he won't do it.

[pnwmom]

29. He saw Clinton's plan torpedoed because it didn't originate in Congress,

so he took another path. I do think it's time he put out his own plan -- he's given Congress enough of a chance. But, unlike you, I think when he does he WILL support a robust public option.

[David Zephyr]

31. I will eat the biggest crow pie ever in the history of the DU if I'm wrong. And happily so.

I hope you are right. But, I don't see it. He's not going to do it.

[pnwmom]

34. And I, obviously, will be disappointed if he doesn't. So we both hope I am right.

It will be interesting to see if he does do a major speech on health care next week.

[scheming daemons]

82. I thought the biggest crow pie you've eaten is when you INSISTED that Obama would name Hillary as VP

last year...




You don't have a good prognostication record.



Which means, to me, that your OP is actually GOOD news. Because it is likely 100% wrong.

[alcibiades_mystery]

58. The OP is not pessimistic...he's mad that his candidfate didn't win

It's not a new or interesting phenomenon.

[David Zephyr]

74. You might search the archives and be surprised who my candidate was in 2008.

.

[scheming daemons]

83. We remember....

..

[ProSense]

98. I remember, and you know I do. n/t

[GhostOfMollyIvins]

112. not a new or interesting phenomenon. - like your posts

[alcibiades_mystery]

135. You love me too much

Who the fuck are you, by the way?

Have you received your fan club packet?

:rofl:

[Vickers]

25. We're DUMED!!!1!1!!1!

:rofl:

[David Zephyr]

33. No. Not dumed, but certainly dumped.

Keep laughing, but I'm on your side.

[QC]

99. No, you're an apostate now.

:sarcasm:

[David Zephyr]

146. LOL. I'm beginning to believe that for some here, the "D" in DU means "Disciple".

And I'm not a disciple for a politician. Yes, I'm apostate now, but after Obama's speech, the disciples will not be big enough to admit I was right and will begin rationalizing Obama's betrayal and continued string of promise breaking to the Left.

[QC]

161. The talking point will be that he never said anything about a public option

and anyone who says otherwise is a damn dirty leftist who didn't pay attention during the campaign.

[David Zephyr]

169. Coming Soon at the DU: The Great Rationalizing.

You can hear the disciples warming up their vocal chords for those talking points.

Can you picture the plethora of threads that will soon be here justifying this high betrayal?

[QC]

171. Actually, I think this place will go apeshit if the public option is dumped.

The loyalty enforcers already seem to be getting a bit panicky over how seditious people are becoming. For months they have managed to browbeat dissenters into silence here, but now the little folks are getting mouthy and they don't like that.

It's going to be an interesting show.

[David Zephyr]

172. I hope you are right.

I will not go silently into the night. Yeah, the browbeating of those not on their knees to the promise breaker.

[tavalon]

30. About to?

Where exactly have you been these last 6 months?

[Individualist]

71. That was my first thought as well.

It became obvious when Obama began surrounding himself with DLC as soon as he was elected.

[tavalon]

92. I tried to put a happy face on the Rahm thing

but in the end, that was a rather deciding point. He fucking hates us and we fucking hate him. It's a marriage made in hell.

[KoKo]

102. my feeling too...after figuring he picked him to get Dem Legislation through the House

along with Biden (Clarence Thomas appointment) to get Dem legislation through Harry (The Limping Boxer)'s legislation through the Senate. It seemed like the "Dream Team" for Legislative Victory...even though I coughed it down...gagged it down.

Now it appears that it was something more like the gag than the triumph. I hope that I am proved wrong...OMG...I pray that I am proved wrong....

[David Zephyr]

154. Trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Now he's just a string of broken promises and missed opportunities for the poor and working class to have real healthcare. How shitty is that? Thanks for posting, tavalon.

[notesdev]

35. The Delusion Brigade may un-rec you

but I'm happy to see more people coming to grips with reality.

I just actually wrote something quite similar on another topic:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6442934&mesg_id=6443229

[David Zephyr]

44. I'm cool with unrecs. The DU is family to me.

I wish I weren't so pessimistic, but it's eight months now.

[sabrina 1]

48. Well, as far as recs go, I rec'd you.

Sad, but as things stand now, you appear to be right and I so wish you were wrong.

[David Zephyr]

75. And I wish I were wrong, too, sabrina 1.

Thanks for seeing the spirit of my OP. As an Obama supporter, these first eight months have been disheartening as he's surround himself with corporate interests, world bankers and the likes of Tom Daschle.

[sabrina 1]

125. You're welcome, I know what you mean *sigh*

[unapatriciated]

133. I know how you feel.

It's been a roller coaster of emotions for me.
Lately I have had a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach.
He has a chance of being a great president and implementing real change.
We are in a unique time, where we actually have the power to make real changes.
We must push him to achieve what we know can be done.

[Lagomorph]

37. As far as rants go...

...that last paragraph bumped you up a couple points.

[David Zephyr]

76. It is a sad rant, but a rant, nonetheless.

Thanks.

[Lagomorph]

118. Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. nt

[JeffR]

38. You're a very worthwhile contributor to DU.

And you're a lot smarter than this post would indicate to those unfamiliar with you.

[Klukie]

52. agreed....

I have to say I am a little surprised by this.

[David Zephyr]

153. Thanks.

I don't know what else the Left and Unions and the sick and dying can possibly do or say to make Obama keep his promise. It's up to him to lead and not be pushed around.

[TomCADem]

39. Gee, You Convinced Me! Why Would We Want A Public Option Run By A Corrupt Gov't?

:sarcasm:

The point of your thread is that government is corrupt, and we can't trust President Obama. Okay. So, then why would you want to implement a government run healthcare option by this same government? I don't get it. Also, I don't even know where to begin with the "nothing has really changed" since Bush has left office.

The OP is replete with paranoia and cynicism about the federal government. I almost expect you to start sounding the alarm about death panels.

[David Zephyr]

42. Er...read the OP again. It's the Co-Op that will be run by corrupt politicians and corporations.

I support single-payer, nationalized healthcare. The only humane debate is whether we, the people, should permit a "private option".

Let's re-visit this after September 15th. Obama will show where he stands by then. I think he's already more than signaled his intentions. Nice try to twist things around.

[Engineer4Obama]

55. Single Payer would still be run by corrupt politicans

[Aramchek]

41. hey look, it's the weekly 'no hope' thread

[backscatter712]

43. Concern noted.

:eyes:

[sabrina 1]

127. Concern is a good thing, and it should be noted

Because this post is a warning signal to Democrats. The base of the party are the ones this party cares the least about. We knew that, but put the country first and hoped that given a big enough majority, they would lose the abused spouse syndrome they seemed to be afflicted with over the past eight years. Not all of them, there are a few, like Kucinich, who stand out, but most.

The Rahm E. branch of the party despise those they need the most to keep them in power. And while political junkies, such as those who frequent political blogs, may end up coming around, there are millions who do not frequent blogs, and many of them will not be happy if the major issues that caused them to vote for Dems do not get attention. It's nice that Wall St. billionaires were rescued from the results of their own stunning greed and incompetence bordering on, and in some cases, actual criminal behavior.

But most of us did not vote for that nor want it. It did little for those out of work, out of healthcare and the millions losing their homes. You'll have to excuse me if my 'concern' is reserved for the ordinary people and for the issues, the wars, the war criminals and all the other reasons we supported them.

[lamp_shade]

46. My Gawd. You watch FOX all the time don't you? Every one of your statements tell.

[David Zephyr]

77. Wrong.

Attacking the messenger is something Fox does, though, isn't it. You don't know me well enough. That's OK.

[knixphan]

47. I don't do bracing. I do however hold signs and demonstrate in public.

As I will tonight.

Democracy begins with ME.

TAG, I'm it.

[David Zephyr]

79. I like your spirit, knixphan.

:thumbsup:

[Emit]

80. ...

:thumbsup:

[ixion]

50. I was also one of those who said nothing would really change

and, in my opinion, my premise has sadly been confirmed.

Don't mind these folks who flame you simply because you speak your mind. You're not alone.

[slay]

53. Same here - don't mind the flamers - I'm not seeing the change either

and FUCK all these idiots calling Obama a socialist - he's not even a liberal! he's a corporate democrat. he appoints corporate people to positions - often the same ones who got us into trouble in the first place. i had hopes for Obama but oh well.. it not all said and done, but i don't expect great changes from him. perhaps next time i'll vote my conscience and go with Kucinich instead of the lesser of two evils - especially now that i see how clearly most dems, just like repubs, are OWNED by corporate influence.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

56. Bill Moyers tells it like it is in his interview with Bill Maher. You have 2 corporate parties

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6421160

[jonnyblitz]

59. k & r!

:hi:

[David Zephyr]

149. Thanks.

Stand proud that you don't compromise your convictions. :hi:

[quiet.american]

61. My goodness, this is the best "rending of the shirt" writing I have seen in some time!

I'll give you that.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mari333]

65. knr

[Beetwasher]

67. Thank You Nostradamus!!

:eyes:

[kctim]

68. All or nothing?

I am hardly a blind partisan devotee of President Obama, but come on, we cannot expect massive change to happen overnight. Change is hard and even harder when trying to bring more government into peoples personal lives. Luckily, President Obama understands this.
We can't write off his entire presidency simply because a pet issue doesn't immediately go our way.

[L0oniX]

69. ***

:popcorn:

[Ikonoklast]

72. How will you like your crow done?

Bookmarked.

[tnlefty]

73. Hello fellow doormat! Did you happen to catch Rep. Clyburn on

Ed's radio show yesterday?

The gist in a nutshell:

The whips will begin working soon.

There must be a strong public option and that the business of nothing taking effect until 2013 will have to go. If people aren't seeing substantial changes in their life's circumstances then they will take it out on democrats in 2010 and that 2012 arrives before 2013 making the President vulnerable, also.

The President is smart and he knows these things.

I say let the whips begin working and throw in some arm twisting from the White House. I hope that you are wrong and that Rep. Clyburn is correct for all our sakes. :hi:

[KoKo]

103. SC Dem James Clyburn has his own stuff to deal with. I wouldn't count on him...

but we have to be hopeful...agree. :hi:

[tnlefty]

106. Well you just burst my bubble!

What kind of stuff, if I may ask?

Hope just faded a bit more.

[KoKo]

108. Some stuff about his "foundation" in SC...don't worry about it...

he was a hero to me at one time, too. Maybe he still will be. But, it's SC...and no one is not tainted in that state. I grew up there....it's gotten worse since I left.

[tnlefty]

117. I didn't raise him to hero status, just listened to his interview, and I

realize that he wields some power as the whip.

Perhaps I'll raise hell and accept my place as a doormat? All that I know is that the 3 young'ins that I'm raising, taken to political rallies, paid (out of my pocket) to cover my precinct in '06 to hold signs and greet people while I was still driving people to the polls to vote, are becoming more disillusioned as time goes on. My oldest cast his first presidential vote for Obama...the youth in my household are becoming more disillusioned by the day. Despite their being raised in the Democratic party, they're looking elsewhere....and I won't try to dissuade them anymore.

[anigbrowl]

78. War in Iraq is escalating? you don't say

Hmm, we withdrew US combat troops from all Iraqi cities at the end of June and haven't redeployed them. Target date to end the Iraq combat mission remains August 31, 2010. Tell me how this amounts to escalation, please.

See, I would like all that wonderful change to happen overnight, but I knew before the inauguration (in fact, before the election and before the primaries) that it wasn't going to. I expected that major policy changes like this would take a couple of years to come to fruition, not mere months. So frankly, I feel moderately relaxed because by the time of the congressional elections in 2010 and the next presidential election in 2012 we will have seen longer term results than are perceptible now.

but by then, I'm sure you'll have found something else to be pissed off about. If you feel like a doormat that, frankly, is your problem.

[ThomWV]

134. It escalated itself right into Afghanistan where it is growing at a mighty rate.

[scheming daemons]

81. Two excalating wars?

Really? Iraq is escalating?


Lie much?

[GhostOfMollyIvins]

115. fanboi #1

[SidneyCarton]

84. You seem to have put a lot of work into that one.

Pity it doesn't say anything you haven't already raved at us over. Frankly David this was tiresome months ago, now its just pointless.

[DevonRex]

86. Concern noted. nt

[johnaries]

87. That's right, completely ignore all the accomplishments he's made

in just a very, VERY few 8 months. Ignore the Lily Ledbetter Act, the CARD Act, the fact that withdrawal from Iraq has begun (it will take at least 16 months for logistical reasons as much as anything else, according to military commanders), the fact that we are making a PROFIT for the bank bailout loans, the fact that the stimulus packages (including cash for clunkers which some consider the most successful of all time) have avoided another Depression, ignore the fact that he has asked Congress to repeal DOMA and DADT, ignore the fact that the EPA and other government agencies are being driven by science and not ideology, etc., etc., etc.

The difference twixt an opptomist and a pessimist is droll,
The opptomist sees the doughnut, whilst the pessimist sees the hole.

But your post isn't even "pessimistic" - it completely avoids reality.

Epic Fail. And unrec.

[Deja Q]

91. Agreed. He has done a LOT, not to mention American bureaucracy is slow-going.

Look at all the bickering in congress - never mind repubes saying they will stay or summarily vote 'no'. That isn't bipartisanship either.

[KoKo]

104. Congress did that....Where are his initiatives that he pushed through congress?

That's what worries many of us.

[Generator]

93. Not a great leader?

So far he's proving he's not even a leader. His idea of leadership is making nice with the rottenest worthless politicians that don't give a shit about Americans and calling it "bi-partnership" and achieving nothing. * WAR? Still going? Mercenaries-still going strong? Accountability for torture? Yeah, a whitewash dog and pony show.

The dude is a sham. Maybe he can glamour some of the populace again. I never trusted him to begin with. In fact actually shockingly to me, feel that Bill Clinton whom I had nasty things to say about is now a better president that Obama can ever be. Obama had millions willing to follow-he could have really changed this country. Instead he's being punked by a a bunch of Republicans. When the left is beginning for leadership and he doesn't show any-just make nice with those that don't give a SHIT about health care reform,and he continues to pretend they are his allies-he's really just showing how weak he is.

[SammyWinstonJack]

105. +1

"The dude is a sham." :thumbsup:

[liquid diamond]

116. I'm so tired your fucking whining and people like you.

It's only been 8 months and you post like Obama is at the end of his 2nd term. Vote for a hard-core liberal if they are stupid enough to challenge Obama in 2012 and see how far you get!

Oh, I have never unrecommended a thread until now!

[democracy1st]

123. why are you so pissed ?

[bonjourtristesse]

126. "People like you"

You people

[Hannah Bell]

187. "millions willing to follow-he could have really changed this country"

this is one sad thing. my neighbor's kid, my cousin's kids, & most of their friends - were more enthusiastic about obama than any political figure in my lifetime. he could have done something with that energy & idealism.

wasted.

[KoKo]

94. K&R...

[cap]

107. if this is so...

we've got to get off our fat keyboards and get out there just like we did in the campaign to get him elected... we've got to take to the streets and make health care happen. Notice the RW isn't moaning and groaning about Bush...they are out there trying to throw everything but the kitchen sink at Obama. They started fighting the 2010 Congressional Elections in February. We need to do likewise.

Buck Up, People...Sitting around moanin' aint going to do nothing but drive us back in the hole. The RW isn't moanin' ...they're teabagging. Hey, how 'bout our own idea of a minirevolt.

Someone did make one point... Ya know Obama is giving a major health care speech on Sept 9. He is going to a major union picnic on Sept 15. The unions want single payer badly. They will stone him if he backs off single payer. I just dont see him backing off single payer ...

[KoKo]

109. This DU'er was out at the NC State Capitol Demonstating last weekend...

Almost a thousand others there, with 60 Freepers across the street...I didn't see the Porta Potty they usually come with but there were few.

We are working hard all over. There were five demonstrations for Health Care last weekend in NC...our RW news media gave us little coverage. The national media didn't cover it at all. What does that tell you?

[David Zephyr]

145. Thanks for being there. More than a lot of the keyboard activists here.

:thumbsup:

[David Zephyr]

147. He'll back away and rationalize it, but it will be yet another broken promise.

He's weak.

[cap]

180. so we've got a weak President

what's our next move? More hand wringing and eating of our own?

[David Zephyr]

185. NO.

The next step is to only vote for true progressives either in the Democratic Party or in the Green Party or Socialist Party, but not for corporate Liebermans and Blue Dogs.

And yes, he's weak. Pathetically so.

[cap]

188. so until the next election

hand wring and eat our own..

[RagAss]

111. Maybe we should wait and see.

[Dr Fate]

114. I like your passion- but I'm going to wait & see. n/t

n/t

[NoSheep]

120. fail

[Cali_Democrat]

122. When it comes to health care reform, lets see what he says in his upcoming speech.....

Obama is not a dictator. He cannot get true health care reform passed on his own without congress. Max Baucus has his pockets lined by the insurance companies. The blue dogs are gonna be one tough nut to crack.

Also, Iraq is not an "escalating war". We are still on schedule with the troop withdrawal.

Afghanistan is a different story. That certainly is an escalating war, but that is exactly what Obama promised during the campaign. No shock there really unless you weren't paying a attention during his campaign or you hoped he was lying when he said that he would increase troop levels in Afghanistan.

As for don't ask don't tell, you may want to also direct your anger toward the overwhelming Democratic majority congress for failing to pass legislation. Both Congress and Obama deserve blame on that issue.

And yes, the bailouts sucked. No question about it.

[jeanmarc]

130. You have to be more than uncomfortable with some of these things

Not everything said is exactly true by the OP, but don't let your personal like for Obama cloud your judgment.

I'm not pleased at all with:

1) the escalating war in Afghanistan
2) the existing situation of Gitmo
3) the rudderless lack of leadership in shaping healthcare policy

For 1, I just don't think the United States should be involved in these sort of 'wars'.

For 2, I know it's a tough situation, none of the solutions are palatable to the American people. But he should choose a course and close the place down. We know there's been torture there, and I wonder if the same set of guards are running the place? The Bushies have put us in a hole here, as the trials for some of these people are just not possible, so do you really just let them all free? The place is going to bite us in the ass one way or another. I doubt the solution he is trying to pursue is legal anyway, moving most if not all to federal prisons in the states without trial.

For 3, I hope this is taken care of Wednesday.

[David Zephyr]

162. Thanks for your thoughtful comments.

Since I wrote the OP, the news gets worse doesn't it? All I can think of is how shitty it is that in 2009 the working class and poor ---- who pay for the wars, who pay for the banker's priviledges, who pay for the defense contractor's useless weapons, who pay for corporate welfare, and more --- will not be "allowed" to have even an option for not-for-profit healthcare for their sick children and families. Change we could believe in?

[treestar]

131. I am so sick of this crap on DU

Some people just love to be victims and losers, I guess.

Back to the regular media calling the President a "socialist."

[Toasterlad]

138. Some People ARE Victims.

People like you who refuse to hold politicians accountable for their actions (or lack of same) are the REASON some people are victims.

[David Zephyr]

163. Well said, Toasterlad.

What's the point of all the chatter here, if we don't really stand for things. Healthcare, not-for-profit healthcare, real healthcare for the working class and poor is a goddamned right of the American people, not an "option" to be hung out like a fucking carrot to people who need doctors and medicine to live.

Is this the Democratic Underground or Disciples Unashamed? I'm glad there are voice like yours here.

[bonjourtristesse]

152. "crap", "victims", "losers"...well you certainly aren't liberal with that attitude.

In fact ...never mind.

[Canuckistanian]

142. Sure, the furniture has changed

But that god-awful rug is STILL there.

[David Zephyr]

164. Canuckistanian, you must think Amerians are crazy.

Can you believe that not-for-profit health-care, even the "option" of having it, can not be delivered to the American People by a Democratic Congress and a Democratic President.

I think that there's more in that room that hasn't changed than just the rug. The policies sure haven't. Always good to see you here.

[Canuckistanian]

175. What I think is crazy

Is that Americans' constant cries of "loss of freedom" are almost completely directed at the GOVERNMENT, where freedom is actually taken away by CORPORATE CONTROL over nearly every aspect of your lives.

[Lorien]

143. Actually he kept BushCo's furniture

because he said that decor was not a priority. Apparently neither was keeping his word.

[David Zephyr]

165. "Apparently neither was keeping his word."

There it is. You said it and it needs to be said.

This is yet another broken promise in a staggering string of them. Fortunately, there are many of who are not disciples. "Apparently neither was keeping his word." Yeah, that sums it up.

[unkachuck]

158. kick....n/t

[Le Taz Hot]

167. Kick

Just now caught this. Excellent! This progressive is sick of "he's-better-than-the-other-guy" voting. Face it, progressives need to start looking for viable alternatives. The corporatists are under the impression they can win elections without us. I think 2012 would be a good time to test that theory. The fact is, Progressives will never gain power by continually ceding it to the demands of the Democratic Party.

[David Zephyr]

173. Nothing to add. It sums it up.

Good to see you, Le Taz Hot. You summed it up.

[QC]

174. He's better than Pol Pot! n/t

[mitchtv]

168. thanks DavidZ

I fear you are right, and remember when you told me you would give him more time with different issues? well my time limit is just about up, I go with my union. Public option, or don't bother calling anymore. I was convinced back when, that he is a typical politician.I should have known when Dean was put aside. Then again rev Warren made things perfectly clear.

[David Zephyr]

179. Now they are floating an undefined, future "trigger". What cowards.

I hope the liberal caucus in the House which numbers nearly 100 Representatives will vote down Obama's proposal if it does not include a public option. Let Obama find the votes from the Republicans for his sham.

[dionysus]

177. oh geez, another day another baseless tantrum. will you at least wait to see what happens?

[BeHereNow]

181. Oh no, are you saying it's the same coin, different side???? You'd be right.

Courageous post DZ.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :hi:
The lemmings continue to jump off the cliff.
Smoke and mirrors, smoke and mirrors.
We've been had by the new boss, working for the same bosses.
The corpoRATions.

BHN

[David Zephyr]

186. Thanks.

I don't know if it was courageous. It certainly has brought out the wrath of what I call the disciples here. I'm a progressive and won't apologize for being one. Ever. And yes, you have it right: "the same bosses: the corporations." Thanks BeHereNow.

[kid a]

192. do you ever get out? or do you hack out your drivel 24/7?

your butt sores are showing.

Dude...do some fucking work for a change. Don't just write simpleton messages on a forum so your little cheerleaders can rec your thread and give you a hard-on.

I read your journal, your posts...its forum fluff.

Its tired.