I ended up at a pill mill last week.

[blueamy66]

I totaled my car a few weeks back and have had lingering knee and back pain. So I went to my insurance website to find a dr. w/in a short wallking distance or bus ride from my place of employment to go check it out. I am still carless, as I cannot decide what to get and didn't want to bother anyone for a ride....again.

Anyway...what an eye opener. I didn't realize that there were still doctors out there that wrote pain med scripts on a whim. As I was waiting, a girl next to me started talking. I told her why I was there and she said, "Oh, you'll be walking outta here with a script for at least 60 percs...no problem". WTF? Then she was amazed that I actually had insurance. Then she continued to inform me that I will have to keep making appts. for refills...as the docs like to get the office visit $ and never give refills. "Oh, but it's worth it", she said.

I guess the signs that read "Cash Only" and "You May Have to Wait Even Though You Have an Appt" were there for a reason. Some people had been waiting for over 2 hours...but wouldn't leave, as I guess they needed their refills.

How naive am I? I thought that the authorities were cracking down on this. I won't be going back there.

Oh, and I got 60 Ibuprofen and he wanted to give me 60 Vics. He sent me for x-rays too. I turned down the Vics.

[tridim]

1. That office is nothing more than a drug dealer for big pharma

Why isn't the office being raided by the DEA?

[Stevenmarc]

55. No he's a drug dealer in it for himself

[MercutioATC]

2. Strictly from a preparedness standpoint, never turn down a prescription for a controlled substance.

Get the Vics and put them on a shelf. They're good for at least 2 years. You never know what access you may have in two years, even if you need them.

[Mugu]

4. Hear, hear. n/t

[Crunchy Frog]

63. I'm with you there. I've still got a bottle of Hydrocodone

left over from my c-section.

[FarCenter]

3. You don't need a prescription for ibuprofen

It is available over the counter. CVS online shows a 500 tablet bottle of 200 mg tablets for $13.79.

[derby378]

69. If the ibuprofen is 800mg or more, you need a prescription

I was given 800mg ibuprofen after my root canal. Works great, but there's also an increased potential for liver damage, so you have to be careful with doses that high.

[Milspec]

5. Now just were do you live

:rofl:

[madokie]

6. Somewhere

what a load :rofl:

[blueamy66]

11. What a load of what?

Arizona

[Warpy]

7. First, ice will do more for that back pain than ibuprofen will

Second, you should have taken the x-rays if you didn't get them at the time of injury to rule out a worse problem than just muscle spasm.

Third, Dr. Feelgood is the last step before the street and boosting the CD player out of your car to afford black market prices. He's actually doing his bit to reduce street crime.

I went to one of those in Boston. He was actually not a bad doc for general medicine and I could see him when I was sick enough to need antibiotics instead of having to convince a dragon at the front desk that waiting a month with pneumonia was not a good idea.

Street crime in that neighborhood did get a hell of a lot worse when he retired.

[EFerrari]

18. Ice is amazing. It's the only thing that made dent in my tendonitis

few years ago. Drugs just made me feel a little better about being in pain but ice took the pain away. :thumbsup:

[SoCalDem]

27. Ice also can prevent a cold sore.

One of my kids used to get them, and if you catch it when the "tingle" starts, before the redness, you can stop it from happening.. Just have to press the immediate area with ice..and as much pressure as you can tolerate..

[JerseygirlCT]

64. The right exercises via physical therapy

did far more for my back pain than any medications would have done. After about a month of faithfully doing them (all sorts of pilates type things - ab work and upper body strengthening), the back pain went away.

Fortunately, the orthopedist sent me to PT instead of drugs or surgery (two bad lower back discs and one bad one in my neck, plus osteoporosis). It made all the difference.

[Maru Kitteh]

8. Why would you bother with a prescription for Ibuprofen?

edit typo.

[blueamy66]

12. Because it was for 60 800 mg pills...

which cost me $4 w/my insurance. That's a hell of a lot better than $8 for 50 at the local pharmacy.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. So you went to the doctor's after getting hurt...

waited around in a busy waiting room, where other people were waiting hours to see a doctor, then you purposefully turned down prescription strength analgesics in favor of over the counter medicine you could have picked up at any corner store?

Something doesn't pass the smell test.

[blueamy66]

14. Um, I wanted to get a referral for an x-ray.

That is all.

[Maru Kitteh]

70. That's like asking for an X-ray for a nagging headache.

As in it's most often totally useless for your purposes.



Just take a taxi and go to your regular GP next time or better yet, pick up the phone and talk to her or him. If you don't have a regular GP, at least stick with a clinic you trust.

[htuttle]

10. 60 Ibuprofen?

Yer doing it wrong!

[blueamy66]

13. Um, why all of the negative comments?

You all think that I am lying? Why would I lie?

Some of us need to not get narcotic scripts filled for certain reasons.

I don't get some of you people sometimes.

[Dogtown]

21. I don't get the nastiness either

I knew about these places, so I'm not shocked. Many people are *not* aware of these "pain doctors" and would get the willies walking into that place. The middle-class, middle-aged junkies can be a revelation, when the stereotype of the refrigerator-box addict has been so programmed into us. Mind you, those clinics CAN lead there for some folks, but they would have found a route to squalid bliss in time, w/o the help of the doctor.

Echoing a poster above, it would have been wise to score those vickies for future emergency, but if you don't want them around, that's totally your decision.

You wouldn't lie if you'd gone there to score; you would have bragged on it & gained cred with those posters that are now hassling you. Personally, I like to play with drugs sometimes, apparently you don't and that's cool, too.

An interesting post for those *not* familiar with the seedier side of the medical establishment.

[kimmylavin]

23. I don't think you're lying.

:hi:

I think if you'd mentioned the type of ibuprofen, they'd back off.
I'm assuming you didn't just get a bottle of Advil.
I'm assuming this was the mega-milligram kind that you can only get from a doctor.

I was in a car accident a few years ago - major back pain.
I got those doctor-only ibuprofen pills, and they were a lifesaver.

Hope that you're feeling better...

[EOTE]

29. I don't think she's lying either.

But the difference between prescription strength Ibuprofen and the over the counter kind is in strength only. If you want to get the effects of prescription strength Ibuprofen and only have 200mg, you can just take four of them. That's why I've always thought the concept of prescription strength ibuprofen to be a really silly one.

[kimmylavin]

34. True.

However, for those of us who have a really hard time taking pills, taking one is a LOT easier than taking four. :)

Plus, like the OP said somewhere downthread, they turned out to be cheaper.

[blueamy66]

35. Thanks.

[Subdivisions]

15. K&U. I call shenanigans. Nobody goes to all that trouble and time

to end up with 60 Ibuprofens that could've been obtained in seconds at several locations along the route to that "pill mill".

[blueamy66]

36. Call it what you want.

Can "several locations" offer me an x-ray?

[mzteris]

16. I'd file a complaint

with the local - somebody - police and/or medical board. . . at the very least, the local news (suggest they go in undercover . . . )

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. A complaint for what, exactly?

Do you think does they provide managed http://myfxadvice.com>forex account

[mzteris]

22. evidently everyone there knows

he's a just a drug dealer . . .


there are laws against that sort of thing, you know.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

28. You mean the one person who was wrong about what the doc would prescribe?

[mzteris]

30. didja miss the part about

"he wanted to give me 60 Vics"?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. No, I didn't miss that.

I just don't see any problem with it.

[mzteris]

43. of course not.

I'm sure . . .

randomly handing out major painkillers is just hunky dory - especially if you can get paid for the OV for every refill. Yup. Honesty in medicine - and - uh - how's that line go - "First, do no harm"

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

45. Randomly?

You mean to patients in pain?

"major painkillers?"

It's not horse tranquilizers. Vicodin's a rather standard prescription strength painkiller.

[mzteris]

47. did you not read the OP?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. Sure did.

[mzteris]

51. evidently not very well. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

52. Present the evidence.

[mzteris]

54. here's a refresher -

doctors out there that wrote pain med scripts on a whim. As I was waiting, a girl next to me started talking. I told her why I was there and she said, "Oh, you'll be walking outta here with a script for at least 60 percs...no problem". WTF? Then she was amazed that I actually had insurance. Then she continued to inform me that I will have to keep making appts. for refills...as the docs like to get the office visit $ and never give refills. "Oh, but it's worth it", she said.

I guess the signs that read "Cash Only" and "You May Have to Wait Even Though You Have an Appt" were there for a reason.



So does this description reek of "legitimate" doctor to you?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

59. Does it seem like a legitimate doctor to me? Sure.

OP had a conversation with some woman, and mentioned she'd been hurt in an accident. The woman made a layperson's guess about which painkillers would be prescribed- and was wrong. Recommended a course of action to aid the OP in getting refill (which if you had been paying closer attention- runs contrary to your conspiracy theory that the doctor is a drug dealer getting rich quick by selling pills).

"I guess the signs that read "Cash Only" and "You May Have to Wait Even Though You Have an Appt" were there for a reason."

I have no idea why they don't take checks or cards. Seems unlikely that they'd be some sort of fly-by-night clinic though. And waiting for an appointment? Ever been to a doctor's office or dentist's where you didn't end up waiting?

If you have any legitimate reason why you'd think the doctor was illegitmate, I'd like to hear it.

[mzteris]

53. here's a refresher -

doctors out there that wrote pain med scripts on a whim. As I was waiting, a girl next to me started talking. I told her why I was there and she said, "Oh, you'll be walking outta here with a script for at least 60 percs...no problem". WTF? Then she was amazed that I actually had insurance. Then she continued to inform me that I will have to keep making appts. for refills...as the docs like to get the office visit $ and never give refills. "Oh, but it's worth it", she said.

I guess the signs that read "Cash Only" and "You May Have to Wait Even Though You Have an Appt" were there for a reason.



So does this description reek of "legitimate" doctor to you?

[Dogtown]

24. Perhaps this would be a good time to MYOB

Who are you to judge?

DEA watches these doctors and does shut them down if they cross too many lines, as do local constabularies.

If you have a real compulsion to fight the drug war, maybe you should enlist....



:patriot:

[mzteris]

31. Mind your own . . .

the guy posted, I replied.

[Dogtown]

33. And I called you on it.

Can you justify such a judgmental stance, or are you a compulsive nanny?

[mzteris]

39. you "called" me on it?

:rofl:

I'm not the only one in this thread who thinks that medically licensed drug dealer should be reported.

Or are you okay with handing out drugs to any and everyone who just "wants" them.

FWIW - I'm for decriminalizing most drugs, and I also strongly support drug rehabilitation rather than incarceration.

Drugs have their place in society, but a "doctor" who is handing out scrips like candy and having people come back in for every refill so he can bill an OV is criminal imo.


Edit after the reply to my post and I saw my dumb typo - changed "must" to "just" . . . argh...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. "Or are you okay with handing out drugs to any and everyone who must "wants" them."

I'm OK with handing out painkillers to people who've been hurt in accidents, how about you?

"FWIW - I'm for decriminalizing most drugs, and I also strongly support drug rehabilitation rather than incarceration."

I think you need to make up your mind.

[mzteris]

44. I don't think most of the people

in that clinic were there due to having been "hurt in accidents" according to the OP. They were there for the drugs. Period.

I have made up my mind. What I said was perfectly clear. What about my statement do you not comprehend?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

46. And you know that because... why?

"What I said was perfectly clear. What about my statement do you not comprehend?"

Oh, I can comprehend everything you're saying. I just think it's absurd.

[mzteris]

50. did you not read the OP?

You think what I'm saying is absurd?

You think decriminalizing drugs is absurd?

or do you think that using rehab instead of incarceration is absurd?

Or you think getting "doctors" who aren't really practicing medicine but a get-rich-quick scam by preying on drugs users is absurd?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

56. Again, yes, I read the OP.

"You think what I'm saying is absurd?"

Laughably absurd.

"You think decriminalizing drugs is absurd?"

No, I think claiming you want to decriminalizing drugs while wanting to "report" a doctor for the proper prescription of painkillers is absurd.

"or do you think that using rehab instead of incarceration is absurd?"

I think that at a properly run rehab, doctors would be prescribing painkillers and other drugs to those who need them.

"Or you think getting "doctors" who aren't really practicing medicine but a get-rich-quick scam by preying on drugs users is absurd?"

I do not think this case involved a "doctor" but in fact a doctor, and I do not think he got rich quick by prescribing vicodin over ibuprofen.

[mzteris]

57. i reckon our interpretation of what

was going on in that office is completely different then.

Though how you didn't get that this was not a legit doctor is beyond me.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. I don't "get:" why this is not a legitimate doctor...

Because there isn't anything to suggest wrong doing.

[Dogtown]

62. There's one in your neighborhood,

guaranteed.

You'd like the poster to report this incident to the police. Lets take a look at that:

He goes to the station and meets with an officer. The officer already knows about that place; patrolcars probably drive by it a dozen times a day. Since the sign outside reads "Pain Clinic" or "Pain Medication" he recognizes the business model. Cops are NOT stupid. If I recognize those shops, you can bet the beat-copper is hip to it, too.

Yet it's still there. Doing a thriving business.

It's very difficult to make a drug case against a doctor. They can afford very good lawyers, and who's to say that Patient Jones doesn't have chronic back-pain? Who's to say that a narc going in to purchase drugs isn't SO convincing that the doctor believes him?

Wait, do you think you go in there and tell the doctor you want to get high? No, there's a 'script', known to the participants that all parties observe. Follow the script, get your meds. Ask for drugs, you'll be ushered out, less your consultation fee.

The officer that our OP is hassling knows this, but he has to follow the forms, too. So the OP is interviewed for an hour or 2. One thing the cop WILL want to know is if the complainant is acting on a grudge (the most frequent reason for narking someone out.) Once he figures out that the complainant is merely a naive "socially aware" straight-o, he'll shine him on and get rid of him. Then he'll waste taxes typing up a bogus report nobody will ever read.

Even if it's acted upon, it's unlikely a narcotics detective will be able to make the case.

Suppose something *does* get done. Our poster has to appear in court and testify against a person who has many friends of unstable character. Friends anxious for the doctor to remain free. Unlikely that a junkie at that level would seek revenge, but they aren't known for their predictability. Except for scoring, of course.

And the good doctor will still walk. Our friend has put himself at risk for nothing.

Extrapolating this ridiculous story to a conceited extreme, lets say that doctor gets convicted. He'll get 2 years and his license revoked. He'll only serve 6 months or so. In the meantime, 2 more Vike merchants will open up in the neighborhood.

The exercise is futile and most police would prefer a nice clean clinic they can't bust as opposed to some armed gangster peddling tainted shit on the street. SOMEBODY is going to sell the shit.

Prohibition does not work. The Drug War has nothing to do with cleaning up the streets. You, as a citizen, are virtually powerless in changing the reality. You need to educate yourself before handing out really bad advice.

If you really feel the need to stop drug trafficking, get yourself a nice shiny badge. There is none so cynical as a DEA agent. If you last 2 years, you'll be calloused and uncaring, and maybe acquire a jones of your own.


As to your query, "Am 'I' ok with drugs being handed out..." No, but it isn't a this-or-that situation. The present system does NOT work, clogging it with another case isn't going to alter that reality. I'd suggest we try something else.

[Mariana]

76. A licensed doc selling (scripts for) clean drugs in standard doses vs.

a gangster who is willing to shoot his competition (along with innocent bystanders), hires little kids to help him, is likely selling counterfeit or adulterated stuff containing who knows what, and who probably sells to children as well.

I know which I'd rather have doing business in my neighborhood.

[Dogtown]

78. There you go....

But Church Lady wants Evil exposed and Justice done!


:patriot:

[TwixVoy]

17. This is FOR PROFIT HEALTH CARE

Happens all the time.

Know what happened at my last doctor appointment?

Same doctor I have seen and always paid for YEARS. I had to pay them like a $20 co-payment for the office visit. I had a prescription for blood pressure meds. Same as I get every 3 months.

I went to the counter to pay. I suddenly realized I had left my credit card in the car. I told them I would be right back.

A nurse stopped me at the door and said "Give me that prescription." I was like "what?" and she said VERY firmly "Give it to me NOW sir. You will get it back when you come back"

So yea I came back after getting my card 5 minutes later.

Just lets you know how serious they are about pulling in the cash.

The more pills and services they can sell (regardless of if you need it) the more money they make. This was what Obama was talking about with "quality versus quanitity" health care. Of course if they think you don't have the cash then suddenly they don't give a damn.

[hedgehog]

19. First of all, everyone here should know that a doctor sometimes prescribes

a dose of ibuprofen much higher than recommended on the bottle. So yeah, it's the same stuff you can get over the counter, but I wouldn't take that much without a doctor's say-so.

I'd drop a nickel on this guy. I've nothing against dug dealers, but when they purport to be practicing medicine, they can cause some real harm. In your case, it's possible that a few sessions with a physical therapist would be the best thing for your back and knee. Instead, you got handed pain killers. What are the odds that if you took the percocet without addressing the underlying problems, you'll end up back in that guy's office next month to get another prescription for more percocet?



As a fan of the Buffalo bills, you're already in enough pain, you don't need any more!

[blueamy66]

37. You're right.

The pain of being a Bills fan is more than enough. :)

[Blue Diadem]

25. There are some Dr's who offer the strong stuff first.

I can understand it for those who need it for pain control but I'm like you and will usually refuse it and go for a stronger version of non-narcotics. I can also understand why the Dr. would insist on a visit instead of just giving refills. It may not be for the money but to see if the patient really needs the meds.

That said, I don't know how you'd go about finding out if the Dr. is a pill pusher or not. I'm not sure what to think about the girl next to you. Did she discuss anything about her own condition or was it just about the pills?

[blueamy66]

38. No, she didn't discuss anything about herself..

but I could tell she was already high. Everyone in the waiting room could tell that she was already high.

:)

[Blue Diadem]

48. I got that impression from your OP that she was high.

There's no way to know if she had a legitimate reason for her pills though. I recently spoke to someone I've known for a long time and she was what I'd call higher than a kite. She's on a waiting list for back surgery to have her spine fused. It'll be at the earliest, sometime in Oct. She told me she couldn't function without what she called her feel good pills. She was even sing songy about it and said as long as she had them she didn't mind the wait. By looking at her you'd never know she was the same women who was having mobility issues before she got those pills.

[blueamy66]

67. You're right. I don't know if she had a legit reason to have the

pills. But she was talking to everyone...singing....couldn't sit still...asking to hold everyone's child...just a bit too happy, ya know?

[jeepnstein]

26. Nothing...

you heard from that doctor is worth anything at all. He's nothing more than a drug dealer with a DEA number. Do not trust his advice or return to his office. Pill doctors are scum bags. They aren't interested in treating you, only selling you a scrip. A normal person going to one of those places is a complete waste of time.

I spent some time in the ER a couple of weeks back and you wouldn't believe the number of medication seekers who ran out of pills before their Doctor Feelgood would see them. It was interesting, I'll say that much. When the ER Doc came by to see me and hear my complaint, he apologized for laughing. Everyone who came in that morning was passing a "kidney stone". I was the only one who couldn't stand still and was in pain enough to volunteer for surgery or euthanasia. He was just happy to see someone actually using the ER for it's intended purpose.

Almost every person I have booked into our County Jail has had some form of prescription pain meds on them or was demanding to see the nurse for some. The prescription pain medication racket is fueling crime every bit as much as the cocaine or heroine trades.

Get yourself to your regular doctor. At least you are fortunate enough to have insurance.

[Occulus]

40. People like you make life *really* hard for people with chronic pain n/t

[jeepnstein]

58. Come visit my part of the county for a while.

Prescription pill mills are destroying lives. It's every bit as much of a scourge as any of the illegal addictive street drugs.

If you have chronic pain, then I'm all for you having access to proper medical treatment. A real pain management clinic will have protocols and safeguards to prevent medication seekers from getting pills to sell. I've seen clinics run both ways.

[hedgehog]

65. People like this doctor make it really hard for people with chronic pain.

Because of guys like this, any doctor prescribing controlled medications is under suspicion. Also, as I pointed out, this guy pretends to treat people when apparently he's just handing out pain pills. One fact that is emerging is that if the pain switch is left on too long, the pain will continue after the problem has gone away. In other words, say you have a back spasm that is covered up with pain pills. Even after the tissue damage is resolved, the pain might remain. So this guy might even be creating people who end up with chronic pain.

[jeepnstein]

77. The pain

he's creating is not only isolated to the patient.

I have a very dear friend with a back injury. He was able to return to work after the injury but it was a problem because of constant pain. He found a doctor who offered to make his problems go away. It seemed there was this new wonder drug out on the market that "only worked when you were in pain", Oxycontin. My friend became a hopeless addict, the doctor is now in prison, and the thousands of patients he treated are now buying the pills anywhere they can.

There is a place for pain management specialties in medicine. The devil's in the details.

[slay]

32. This is nothing new

I go through the same thing every few months just to get the lowest dose available of an anti-anxiety med to deal with my anxiety issues. Everyone knows it's a scam - but that's how it works. Man I'd love to get 60 vics.. maybe i should go doctor shopping.. thnx for the info! :evilgrin:

[Quantess]

61. I'm not outraged.

You have pain, and that's what pain meds are for. That's so noble and pure of you to refuse the vicodin. :eyes:

And, I'm not convinced that your assumptions that every other patient was a pill addict and not in pain are correct.

[hedgehog]

66. From the OP

"As I was waiting, a girl next to me started talking. I told her why I was there and she said, "Oh, you'll be walking outta here with a script for at least 60 percs...no problem". WTF? Then she was amazed that I actually had insurance. Then she continued to inform me that I will have to keep making appts. for refills...as the docs like to get the office visit $ and never give refills. "Oh, but it's worth it", she said."


FWIW - I had a major problem with back pain a few years back. My doctor gave me a muscle relaxant and sent me to a physical therapist. The therapist treated the spasm and also guided me through exercises to strengthen the muscles and prevent the pain from returning. I don't know if this is what the OP needs, but it sounds as if the doctor just handed him a prescription instead of doing a proper exam.

[Blue Diadem]

68. OP was sent for x-rays.

I'm betting the Dr. was waiting for those results before ordering physical therapy.

[Stephanie]

73. Someone who is trying to maintain sobriety has good reason to turn down narcotics

I wouldn't presume to guess what the poster's reasons were, but it's very odd to me that anyone would sneer at their decision.

[blueamy66]

74. Thank you too.

Yes, I am trying to maintain pill sobriety. It's tough.

[Stephanie]

75. Good for you.

Congratulations on your strength and courage. You did well.

[ovidsen]

71. This is how it works.

I have a very close relative whose spinal cord was fractured in 3 places (her neck and back) when she was hit by a bus 12 years ago. Since then, she has been forced to stop working (and is now on Medicare disability) and has undergone SIX operations requiring overnight hospital stays. She has undergone countless hours of physical rehab.

The pain never leaves her.

Her regular GP, neurologist and neurosurgeon, for various reasons (fear of the DEA, an anti-pill philosophy, peer pressure, insurance worries, whatever) prescribe her only minimal amounts of codeine based pain relief medication. So instead, she turns to a physician at a pain relief clinic who has no problem giving her scripts for the pills she needs to function with any semblance of normalcy.

She is not a drug addict. She doesn't take them for any "high". She freely admits that she is drug dependant, and there IS a difference. She takes them because, when they work, she is able to walk, write, drive, sit through a movie, and do other things we don't give a second thought to, but things that she finds excruciating when "her friend" grips her body and monopolizes her life when she doesn't have the right medication.

The "pill mill" MD you saw may very well have some abusers as patients. But I'll wager he/she has a lot who literally would not be able to function without some chemical help to deal with genuine, serious, chronic pain issues.

I personally hope you do not report this doctor to the police or the media. Your intrusion won't help the abusers, who will just go someplace else (maybe breaking into your car or home along the way because the MD you outed had "good prices"). And it will almost certainly make life miserable, at least temporarily, for the patients who really need these meds to function.

Yes, its a lousy, cumbersome system. But that's the way it is.

BTW, it has always escaped me why some people think drugs like Vicodin and Percocet are favored by people with substance abuse problems. Yes, they contain codeine. But they also contain massive amounts of acetaminophen, the active ingredient in over-the-counter Tylenol. It's an effective pain reliever in its own way, but take too much and you can kiss your liver goodbye and say hello to the coroner. Acetaminophen is the number one cause for accidental overdose emergency room visits in the US. Your hard core popper would much rather have straight codeine or morphine sulphate, which (not surprisingly) doctors are MUCH more reluctant to prescribe.

[WeCanWorkItOut]

72. My neighbors complain of the opposite problem at their HMO

It seems that they can get what I believe Dean Edell calls
"wastepaper basket diagnoses," and then minimal treatment.
I haven't seen any big studies of this though.

In general, it is true that for-profit doctors may be
motivated to overtreat, to order too much imaging,
CAT scans,etc. (that's been a big problem recently),
while HMOs have incentives to undertreat.