Stop Begging Obama and Get Mad- Chris Hedges

[Orwellian_Ghost]

Stop Begging Obama and Get Mad

By Chris Hedges

The right-wing accusations against Barack Obama are true. He is a socialist, although he practices socialism for corporations. He is squandering the country’s future with deficits that can never be repaid. He has retained and even bolstered our surveillance state to spy on Americans. He is forcing us to buy into a health care system that will enrich corporations and expand the abuse of our for-profit medical care. He will not stanch unemployment. He will not end our wars. He will not rebuild the nation. He is a tool of the corporate state.

The right wing is not wrong. It is not the problem. We are the problem. If we do not tap into the justifiable anger sweeping across the nation, if we do not militantly push back against corporate fraud and imperial wars that we cannot win or afford, the political vacuum we have created will be filled with right-wing lunatics and proto-fascists. The goons will inherit power not because they are astute, but because we are weak and inept.

Violence is a dark undercurrent of American history. It is exacerbated by war and economic decline. Violence is spreading outward from the killing fields in Iraq and Afghanistan to slowly tear apart individuals, families and communities. There is no immunity. The longer the wars continue, the longer the members of our working class are transformed by corporate overlords into serfs, the more violence will dominate the landscape. The slide into chaos and a police state will become inevitable.

...

There is a yawning indifference at home about what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan. The hollow language of heroism and glory, used by the war makers and often aped by those in the media, allows the nation to feel good about war, about “service.” But it is also a way of muzzling the voices that attempt to tell us the truth about war. And when these men and women do find the moral courage to speak, they often find that many fellow Americans turn away in disgust or attack them for shattering the myth. The myth of war is too enjoyable, and too profitable, to be punctured by reality. And so these veterans nurse their fantasies of power. They begin to hate those who sent them as much as they hate those they fought. Some cannot distinguish one from the other.

...

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090914_stop_begging_obama_to_be_obama_and_get_mad/

[PM Martin]

1. k/r

[margotb822]

2. k&r

[TBF]

3. kick n/t

[lordsummerisle]

4. Hedges is brilliant n/t

[RBInMaine]

5. ENOUGH of this Lyndon LaDOUCHE-like anti-Obama HORSESHIT. I am reporting it to site management.

Here we are with OUR President staking his presidency on getting an advance in healthcare (YES damn it, an ADVANCE !!), was handed two wars and near-depression, is trying like hell, has been a HUGE improvement over Bush (stimulus, SCHIP, Leadbetter Law, stem cells, and on and on and on...) and he is being attacked relentlessly by racist teabagger scumbags, and all some can do is post total panty waste circular firing squader cowshit like this. Chris Hedges is a Lyndon LaDOUCHE type douchebag, and he can go pound sand straight up his totally insane ass. If what the RePUKES are doing right now isn't enough for him to support Obama, he can go suck the sweat off a dead man's balls and take his anti-Obama diatribe piece of cowdung with him. Wake up people ! There are LIGHT YEARS between Obama/Dems and the Glenn Becker RePUKES in congress. We have a chance to sink these asswipes into electoral oblivion bymaking them look like the extremist racist scum they are, and nutjobs like Hedges have to put out this kind of steaming turdpile. Well,
I for one have had enough of it. He and people like him can go to some site for LaDOUCHER dumbheads the likes of which Barney Frank blasted at his town hall. These people are as nuts as Glenn and Rush and their zero-brained cretinous zombie racist right wing bottom of the genepool scumbag cult. I support the Democratic Party and our Democratic President the way we are SUPPOSED to on this forum. Hedges can PISS OFF !

[Skittles]

14. WAKE.THE.FUCK.UP.

[geek tragedy]

29. Leftwing Teabaggers are the ones who need to wake up.

Obama is as good as you're going to get. If he's unacceptable, move to Canada.

[berni_mccoy]

83. ++++++1

[SammyWinstonJack]

100. At least in Canada she would have SPHC.

And if Obama is as good as we're going to get, well that's just downright depressing. :-(

[geek tragedy]

107. I'm sure Stephen Harper would welcome you with open arms.

Maybe you could move to Sarkozy's France or Berluconi's Italy or Merkel's Germany.

[Truth2Tell]

153. That's what Freepers say. nt

[geek tragedy]

165. The Freepers will be in line with you trying to escape

Nazi/Communist/Corporatist/Fascist/Wall Street Tool Obama's nightmare.

[rhett o rick]

211. Corporatist like you are destroying America. Go back to the corporatist party, we dont want you. nt

[dionysus]

223. so obama supporters are all corporatists?

sheesh.

[rhett o rick]

235. No, and I didn't say that at all. I am a Pres Obama supporter. This poster is telling

me to sit down and shut up. Not to fight for single payer or public option. I am never going to sit down and shut up.

[dionysus]

239. rhett, i think the poster is quite worked up because he's fighting with a bunch of people who

for lack of better words, have hated obama for quite some time. i can't really speak for him, but i can relate to his frustration.

i respect your actions of pushing for a public option.

how we can't, with the majorities we have, get a strong public option at the very least is astounding and dissappointing as hell.

that said, it's a sad day for DU when you have posters with communist avatars screaming that obama is a corporatist (and they really mean fascist, they just don't have the stones to say it)

[rhett o rick]

241. Thank you for the civil response. I get a little irrate when I hear people on here that

are willing to settle for less than a strong public option. That's where I draw the line. Granted it's difficult to change the momentum of the country toward fascism but we must try. I will continue to support Pres Obama, not just because he is a Democrat, but because I believe he is for the people. If I find out otherwise, I will then no longer support him. I am a free American first and a Democrat second.

Steps in the right direction don't cut it. Support single payer and settle for a strong, medicare-like, public option and nothing less.

[dionysus]

243. the problem i fear is not obama, but i worry about the congress.

you can say that these people are bought and paid for with money from insurance and pharma interests, and numerous ones are, both parties. but anyone with a brain knows that if the dems solve the health care problem, they will be reelected for a long long time without money from those vultures. so i don't get it.

i know some of the people here screaming about this stuff do it mainly because they never supported obama anyways, many have genuine concerns as well. i may be ultra pragmatic but i'm going to see how this bill shapes out before i start sharpening my pitchfork.

the conundrum for obama is if the bill he gets has a few good things, but lacks the most important ones. to vetoe or not. i almost wish we would break this whole thing into individual bills and do it that way.

have one bill make denying coverage for preexisting conditions illegal. have another bill tackle a public option. i'm not an expert, it's just my opinion.
:hi:

[rhett o rick]

245. I still have faith in Pres Obama. Congress not at all. We have allowed our

Democracy to become run by the wealthy class. The HOR was intended to be part time representatives that came from the people, not the wealthy like they are today. "they will be reelected for a long long time without money from those vultures. so i don't get it." I believe they live in the upper class and don't even consider us equals deserving of decent health care. If I may quote from Phillip Rockstroh:

"The elites don’t exactly believe their own lies; rather, they proceed from the neo-con guru, Leo Strauss’ dictum (the modus operandi of the ruling classes) that it is necessary to promulgate “noble lies” to society’s lower orders. This sort of virtuous mendacity must be practiced, because those varieties of upright apes (you and I) must be spared the complexities of the truth; otherwise, it will cause us to grow dangerously agitated — will cause us to rattle the bars of our cages and fling poop at our betters. They believe it’s better to ply us with lies because it’s less trouble then having to hose us down in our filthy cages. In this way, they believe, all naked apes will have a more agreeable existence within the hierarchy-bound monkeyhouse of capitalism."

[geek tragedy]

226. Do you have a brain, or are you just a talking points generating

bot program?

[dionysus]

228. shut up you corporatist nazi!!11!!11!!11 go roll around in your piles of money...

:rofl:

[rhett o rick]

237. You wish I were a bot. Then you and your corporatist friends could have full reign of the party.

I am not going quietly into the night asshole. We are sick of you corporate ass-kissing bastards trying to steal the party from the people.

[rhett o rick]

186. So are you saying that we should sit back and accept what Pres Obama does for us? Not lobby for our

own behalf? Maybe I misunderstood your post. Are you saying we should sit down and shut up? I think that's the DLC meme. "Party activists, we won the election, so fuck off." Is that what you are saying? I don't mean to put words in your mouth, so let me know.

I am not willing to settle for a "step in the right direction". I have friends and relatives that are seriously suffering because CorpAmerica is strangling our health care. I am willing to compromise. I want single payer but will compromise for a strong (medicare like) public option.

What will you settle for? Whatever Pres Obama tells you?

[Ulysses_The_Red]

254. Red baiting takes on new lows

LAWL

[Butch350]

92. GO BACK TO SLEEP LIKE YOU HAVE FOR THE PAST MANY YEARS.

[Lorien]

121. +1000

[GCP]

208. .

:thumbsup:

[Orwellian_Ghost]

22. That's a creepy post

All you did was spew venom and espouse a support at all costs attitude. That is cult thinking.

So you support the increase of US presence in Iraq? You support the largest military budget in history? You support the attacks from the sky og Afghanistani children? You support Wall St. bailouts?

So you support an unthinking allegiance to the president no matter the policies? So tell me how that is different from the BushCo cult?

[blindpig]

24. Perhaps satire?

Perhaps it's from the Onion?

In these times it can be impossible to differentiate satire from common lunacy.

[geek tragedy]

32. You mean nutjobs like Hedges who think Obama=Bush/Cheney?

Yeah, you people are really in a position to lecture others.

[blindpig]

79. Nope

I mean stuff like post #5. I mean this 'my party right or wrong' jive.

Considering the hopes and desires of the electorate for single payer health coverage and out of our Asian imperial war, I'd call it betrayal. I don't care about 'he didn't say that' because the speechifying, whence most folks got their impressions, was long on vague rhetoric and short on specifics.

So is it 'buyer beware'? A fine comment, that.

[geek tragedy]

110. The electorate didn't demand single payer.

So, it's really a goddamn lie to describe the failure of Obama to pursue something he never promised and the country never demanded as a betrayal.

it's yet another purist fairy tale

[Hannah Bell]

123. the majority supports single payer.

[geek tragedy]

128. A majority believes evolution is a myth.

Until you actually explain the implications of single-payer (no ability to keep your current health plan, etc etc) people will support the soundbite.

[Hannah Bell]

133. lol. they understand ithe implications better than they understand the

implications of the abortion currently being crafted in congress.

[rhett o rick]

189. You have any proof of that?

"No ability to keep your current health plan"???? For many Americans they would love that as their plan is nonexistent. And the rest aren't worried about their "plan" but their coverage and their doctors, which you can keep with single payer.

Are you against single payer? How about a strong, medicare-like, public option?

[geek tragedy]

193. I favor making everyone eligible to buy into Medicare. nt

[Myrina]

77. +1

:applause:

[ooglymoogly]

101. Your argument would make some sense were it not

for FISA, DOMA, not prosecuting the thugs who brought us to this, the continuing bailout of the top 2% of the richest at our expense, Rahm Emanuel, The escalation of the unwindable war in Afghanistan, the pug appointments, the catering to the GOP over those who brung him to the table to do their bidding; Even though the Pugs were a near total wipeout in the last election for the very reasons O was elected to rectify, but he is not... and the list goes on. I do not know this poster nor do I remember any of his posts but here he is right on the money. What you are saying is, he is better than Bush so bend over; We are still getting screwed but at least O is using a lubricant.

Has he done some good things?, sure, but that does not even the score even close. The constitution is the only thing that has been able to keep a bag of wildcats from tearing the country apart; To begin disregarding the inconvenient parts is a road to certain disaster. Not enforcing the laws that were predicated on that constitution is a road to disaster; selectively enforcing the laws of the land is tyranny. The * thugs broke so many laws of the land and the world they are near uncountable, including murder, theft and lying; Deeds so infamous they are nearly unparalleled in world history.

[truedelphi]

162. Some people here think that a dead child in Afghanistan

Killed while Obama is Commander in Chief is somehow less dead than a child killed there when Bush was President.

17% of us are now unemployed or under-employed. We need to quit spending money on things like war and start building up our economy. And I doubt <sigh> that it will happen as long as Corproate Give way Obama is in charge.

Under the Obama Amdinistration we have a total of nine billion bucks toward high speed rail. (This amount woul dnot even pay for 1/3 of such rail between Sacramento and San Francisco.) Yet we have given 2 to three trillion bucks to the Wall Street crowd, who use it against us.

[zanne]

117. I'm with you. nt

[Hannah Bell]

122. chris hedges = larouchite? link please.

[Hawkowl]

195. Heil Obama!

All hail our glorious leader who can do no wrong! Zeig Heil!

There is no room for policy debate! Shut your fucking pie holes while I wrap myself in the American flag and eat myself into a stupor on cheeze doodles watching the big game!

[dionysus]

227. that sounds like something a republican would say.

:shrug:

[Hawkowl]

244. Quick on the uptake are you?

Good. I'd hoped my sarcasm wasn't going to be lost on every single Obama ditto head.

[dionysus]

262. that is, something a repub would say, or a democrat bitter to the core that he won.

you see my post was sarcasm too, but you have to be a jerk and toss an insult. but my friend, your anger and frustration for the next 7 years puts a smile on my face. for christ sake, you can't even be civil. your bitterness sir, is nectar to my soul.

[Hawkowl]

263. I voted for him

Not only voted for him in the primary but the general. And being born and raised in Chicago, I've watched his career from VERY close in the early 90's. I knew exactly how he was and how he is. It doesn't mean I can't try and push his spineless ass into some semblance of standing up to the corporations that apparently have stolen his testicles. Maybe he can borrow Michelles.

I'm not bitter. I just recognize that Obama doesn't do the right thing unless you back him into a corner. He has ALWAYS been that way.

[Ulysses_The_Red]

255. Shut up and fall in line

"I support the Democratic Party and our Democratic President the way we are SUPPOSED to on this forum. Hedges can PISS OFF !"

Yeah, man. Subordinating all interests to making the President look good is a great idea. It's not like he's expanding the Afghan War into Pakistan, protecting Bush torturers, continuing Bush-era surveillance policies, handing out billions to investment bankers while Americans lose their homes, or conciliating to the far right every time they say "boo."

Nothing is funnier than watching you Obamatons degenerate immediately into hysterics when confronted with totally legitimate criticisms of this administration which has done little but continue the same right wing trajectory from Nixon on.

GO TEAM BLUE!

[debbierlus]

6. Kick

[bobbolink]

7. Yes, the frustration is definitely growing....and growing...and growing.

Author has it pegged.

:cry:

[RBInMaine]

10. Author is a Lyndon LaDOUCHE-like fool, and our job is to attack RePUKES not Obama. Piss on him !

[bobbolink]

11. THere is still freedom of speech on DU, and if you don't like that...

go ahead and alert, and tell the Admins that you demand that nobody ever have a critical word for a Dem.

"If you're not with us, you're against us." Didn't we have enough of that?

Your hate is a bit too strong, and if you can't show some acceptance of others, there is no use talking with you. Again, we had 8 years of that, and that was enough.

[geek tragedy]

62. Your crowd thinks Obama=Bush/Cheney, so indeed why should

we assume that you're not against us?

[bobbolink]

174. you need a new playbook.

I'm copying your words, and next November, when you are busy telling people to vote, I'm going to play back some of these quotes, telling us that we're not needed.

Great way to screw yourself.

[JoseGaspar]

181. And your crowd thinks politics is fantasy football.

Your threats are idle. You don't speak for any "we". Unless, you have worms.

[Dr.Phool]

23. I'll attack anyone, who is working for corporate interests over the peoples.

Chris Hedges is a very astute observer, and a great writer. I don't always agree with him, but this time I do.

[geek tragedy]

30. Then you should not be on a Democratic website.

You should go post on a Green Party website.

[datasuspect]

50. Democrat does not equal blind loyalist

[geek tragedy]

54. So says the guy with a Lenin picture in his sig.

tee hee.

[datasuspect]

56. you sure got the rw smear tactics down pat

you aren't here to discuss ideas.

but i'll play: what is your specific beef with leftist ideology?

let me ask you this, O bright one: can you identify the other two fellows as well?

[geek tragedy]

58. There's a core of common sense and wisdom in leftism.

But, like any ideology it becomes a vice when taken to its extreme and treated like dogma.

But, the larger point is that if you really think Obama (who is ideologically representative of Democrats) =Bush/Cheney, then you really shouldn't call yourself a supporter of his or a Democrat.

People like Hedges are free to foam at the mouth and talk about how "Nader was right."

But, they can't honestly then claim to be 'supporters' who are holding him accountable. They're his political opponents who seek his defeat and want to undermine his agenda. Again, that's their right, but it's a lie for them to suggest they're anything other than a hostile political movement.

[datasuspect]

64. i will reply to you piece by piece

"But, like any ideology it becomes a vice when taken to its extreme and treated like dogma."


no one mentioned any dogmatic formulation. we are talking about the same movement that liberated american workers and ensured safe working conditions and the 8 hour work day. there is no vice in that.


"But, the larger point is that if you really think Obama (who is ideologically representative of Democrats) =Bush/Cheney, then you really shouldn't call yourself a supporter of his or a Democrat."


you are the only person in this thread that has used the phrase "Obama=Bush/Cheney." you using the rhetorical gambit of a true sophist to smear your interlocutors. plus, as has been pointed out to you, being an Obama supporter isn't required to be a Democrat.


"People like Hedges are free to foam at the mouth and talk about how "Nader was right.""


take up the issue then and discuss the ideas. the modern rw smear has infected the body politic since reagan. it is cowardly and betrays a lack of intellect on the part of its practitioner.


"But, they can't honestly then claim to be 'supporters' who are holding him accountable. They're his political opponents who seek his defeat and want to undermine his agenda. Again, that's their right, but it's a lie for them to suggest they're anything other than a hostile political movement."


EVERY politician must be held accountable. to swear blind fealty abdicates your duty as a citizen.

[geek tragedy]

67. Hedges is a well-known "Nader was right' ideologue who

peddles the storyline that Obama is the enemy of working people and progressivism.

People who circulate and recommend his material should be presumed to share that agenda.

In this very piece Hedges makes it clear that people should NOT support Obama.

Obama is representative of the Democratic party in terms of ideology. If you reject him as the enemy of working people, it requires some mental gymnastics to justify your presence in the Democratic party.

Also, I find it funny that organized labor supports Obama overwhelmingly while preening coffee-house types like Hedges who have never had a blister in their life think he's the enemy of the working people.

[Hannah Bell]

124. funny. hedges was a war correspondent.

"I have been in ambushes on desolate stretches of Central American roads, shot at in the marshes of southern Iraq, imprisoned in the Sudan, beaten by Saudi military police, deported from Libya and Iran, captured and held for a week by the Iraqi Republican Guard during the Shiite rebellion following the Gulf War, strafed by Russian Mig-21s in Bosnia, fired upon by Serb snipers, and shelled for days in Sarajevo with deafening rounds of heavy artillery that threw out thousands of deadly bits of iron fragments."

'war is a force that gives us meaning'


not your picture of: 'coffee-house types like Hedges who have never had a blister in their life'

[Dr.Phool]

247. I love how people who have never been in the trenches,

Other than to work a phone bank, call others who have actually done the work, "coffee house types".

[Raineyb]

129. So Hedges' ideology = bad but yours = good? n/t

[geek tragedy]

137. Hedges's ideology isn't the problem--it's his fundamentalism, purism,

and Naderism.

Hedges and his kind are the useful idiots of the Republican party.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

139. It's always amusing to see Democratic Party loyalists accuse others of being "purists".

While of course demanding blind loyalty to the irreproachable party.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[geek tragedy]

141. You Bush=Gore/Obama=Bush are the real intellectual giants.

Karl Rove says thank you for 2000 and 2004, by the way. Florida wouldn't have been close enough to steal without you people.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

143. You don't care for democracy?

Some "democrat" you are.

I don't live in Florida.

[geek tragedy]

147. Well, you got what you wanted in 2000 and 2004.

Sorry that your guy lost in 2008. So, democracy produces a good result sometimes.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

150. So, democracy is OK with you when you like the results.

Not so much otherwise?

Do you consider these guys "purists"?

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

[geek tragedy]

160. We have to live with the results of bad decisions in a

democracy.

And our electoral coalition--Democrats, blacks, Latinos, women--is now bigger than your coalition of white racist men and Naderite purists. So look for positive change.

But, maybe you'll get lucky and help get Bobby Jindal elected in 2012.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

166. The left is available to Obama, all he has to do is move away from the "middle".

BTW, it was Democrats who voted for Bush that kept Gore out of office in 2000. Not Greens who voted for Nader.

Bobby Jindal is a Naderite? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[geek tragedy]

169. Republicans and you Naderites are an unholy alliance.

You have a common enemy--the Democrats.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

173. Hogwash.

The "Naderites" (aka "the left") have nothing in common with any Republicans. I've been a registered, and voting, Democrat since 1965. Which doesn't mean that I owe fealty to the party or it's candidates which you seem feel is a prerequisite to commenting on the misdeeds of public servants.

Any political party is just a vehicle to further an end. When that party goes off it's path then it needs to be corrected not applauded.

[ShortnFiery]

190. Lord, when are some going to stop calling out Nader? GORE LOST mostly because he ran

a shitty campaign, not the least of which was choosing the MODERATE, Joe Lieberman, to be his running mate. :(

[geek tragedy]

200. Leave Ralphhhiiiiiee alooooonnnnee! nt

[Ulysses_The_Red]

257. "Organized Labor"

If by that you mean the AFL-CIO bureaucracy, you are correct.

Otherwise you are taking an incredibly narrow, myopic, and right-wing take on labor history. When labor is winning victories it generally doesn't crawl before corporations and try and cut deals.

inb4 distractions about my class, I'm from a union family and currently on the shitheap of the depression.

[blindpig]

89. "undermine his agenda", no way

His 'agenda' proves the utter bankruptcy of our political process, which suits me fine. The more obvious that becomes the sooner we can get on with things.

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blindpig]

127. I would be happy with single payer and exiting the ME.

But will make due with what events serve up.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ulysses_The_Red]

256. Going for a gold medal in red baiting today

are we?

[dionysus]

93. hookay comrade....

:rofl:

[rhett o rick]

191. You are saying that the Democratic Party is for CorpAmerica and therefore those that cant

handle that should leave. I say we stay and fight and kick the corporatists out of the party.

[geek tragedy]

196. Kucinich got

So, it's a bit premature to start your talk of purging the other 99%.

[rhett o rick]

201. What? Kucinich got what? You aren't saying that 99% of the party favors the DLC?

Are you? In 2000 those like you that thought you could piss on the left found out that you couldn't fucking win an election without the left. Now we are here again with the republican-lights (DLC) telling the left to piss off.

The left wants decent health care for all Americans and you don't. Admit it. You don't give a shit about those dying for lack of coverage. You might as well be a republican.

The Democratic Party is that party for the people, if you support CorpAmerica join the repukes where you belong.

[geek tragedy]

224. He got less than 1% of the vote in the primaries.

To portray Kucinich's stands on the issues as the litmus test for being a 'real' Democrat is absurd.

[rhett o rick]

261. Wrong again. My "litmus test" is if you support the people not corporations.

The republican party is the party of CorpAmerica. The people deserve single payer, don't you agree?

[GCP]

214. So Democratic now equals Corporatist ?

:eyes:

[Dr.Phool]

248. That's what he appears to be saying.

Fuck that!

[Dr.Phool]

246. Sorry pal, I'm a former Democratic Congressional candidate.

And I've managed several campaigns for Dem candidates also.

Maybe you should go to a time out site. I've earned my right to speak out.

[bobbolink]

8. Teddy Roosevelt on criticism of the President.

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

Teddy Roosevelt
"Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star", 149
May 7, 1918

[RBInMaine]

9. And this is DEMOCRATIC (aka PARTY) Underground, and not the place to attack OUR president like this.

[Skittles]

16. we are not goosesteppers here

we can support the president and still DEMAND BETTER

[geek tragedy]

31. No one who agrees with Hedges can honestly call themselves

a Democrat and supporter of the President. Hedges himself is on the record as describing him as 'no different' than Bush/Cheney.

Hedges views Obama as the enemy. If you agree with Hedges, you are the enemy just as much as the local Teabagger is.

[geek tragedy]

34. Lots of people here aren't Democrats. They're leftwing Teabaggers.

Every single person reccing this diary is a Naderite Obama-hater.

[blindpig]

88. Geez

Now ya gone and hurt my feelings.....

[Pennelope Pennebaker]

90. No, actually

I viscerally disliked Nader too. And I don't hate Obama - yet.

[rhett o rick]

202. And you would sell out Americans to the health insurers. And you call yourself a Democrat?

I knew our tent was too big. Go back to the corporate party, we don't want you.

[rhett o rick]

203. Self delete, duplicate.

[Dr.Phool]

249. And some kool-aid drinkers are insane.

When my candiate sells me down the river, I have a right to be royally pissed.

This ain't the Soviet Politboro. I'm allowed to dissent from my leaders policies. I won't take their corporate bullshit, anymore than I took Bush's corporate bullshit.

[Dr.Phool]

250. No, actually we're just reccing it to piss you off!

We'd put you on ignore, but the comedic value is just so much fun. :crazy: :silly: :crazy: :silly:

[Name removed]

86. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hannah Bell]

131. if democrats can't debate policy here, where the fuck *is* the right "place"?

secret meetings in closets?

[geek tragedy]

132. This isn't a policy debate. It's an open declaration of war

against Obama and the Democratic party.

Hedges views Obama as the enemy. If you agree with Hedges, politically you are the enemy.

[Hannah Bell]

134. bull. it's a policy debate. unless you're suggesting a purge is in order under the 'big tent'?

[geek tragedy]

136. Hedges says Obama=Bush and that people should STOP

supporting the Democratic party and Obama, and instead try to undermine them.

That makes his agenda not one of issue but of partisanship. Hedges is a partisan enemy of Obama on the left just as Joe Wilson is on the right.

If you sign up with Hedges, you can't honestly call yourself a Democrat or an Obama supporter.

[Hannah Bell]

155. obama specifically asked for policy input from the public. now *you're* saying if we don't

have the "right" (& i do mean 'right') input, we should be banished.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5110170.ece

[geek tragedy]

159. Hedges doesn't believe in lobbying Obama. He believes in

defeating and destroying him.

Hedges is not a critical supporter. He's a virulent enemy.

[Hannah Bell]

164. lol. obama asked people to hold his feet to the fire. so we are, unlike

those who think it's "realistic" to roll over & play dead.

if he can't take the heat, he should have stayed out of the kitchen.

i'm a registered democrat who voted for obama. i didn't vote for bank bailouts, privatized education, mandatory health insurance, or endless war.

[geek tragedy]

168. Obama=Bush isn't accountability. It's mindless partisan bashing

from his political enemies.

People like you and Hedges don't have Obama's back when he does good things. You only speak his name to bash him when you have reason for poutrage.

In short, he has no reason to give a shit what his political enemies think, on the right or the left. You're just going to attack him no matter what.

[Hawkowl]

145. This is not a football game

This is our lives. You are still letting the Rethuglicans define the paradigm, i.e; us vs. them. Politics before Reagan used to be what is "good for the country". Not knee jerk attacks (or defense) of parties like we're watching 8th grade football.

Obama is fucking up big time. He's changed virtually nothing, while mind boggling continuing Bush's policies, but in a more eloquent manner. Unfortunately we're running out of time.

I for one, don't want to see the first African American president become the biggest fuck-up in over a hundred years. In order to succeed he needs to implement successful policies. If he continues W's policies he will own them and history will forget W and only remember catastrophic Obama.

[geek tragedy]

170. "continuing Bush's policies."

If you honestly believe that is an accurate assessment, you're not capable of intelligent conversation.

[Hawkowl]

176. Hello?

Iraq, Afghanistan, Wall Street bailouts, DOMA, Cuba embargo, massive deficit spending on WAR and the bloated military, continuation of DOMA and DADT throwing our gay and lesbian friends under the bus. Continuation of TAX CUTS in the face of world wrecking deficits. These would be the policies I'm talking about.

Yes the pittance on cash for clunkers and his fake mortgage modifications (completely ineffectual if you examine the data) would be analogous to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic

Now YOU PROVIDE EXAMPLES of significant real change. Not chump change you can mis-believe in.

[geek tragedy]

179. Scheduled withdrawal of ALL US troops by 2011 from Iraq, the

stimulus which contained MANY progressive spending items, the loosening of travel restrictions with Cuba, granting of due process hearings to prisoners at Bagram (announced over the weekend), reversal of ALL of Bush's executive orders on detention, executive orders making it US policy to treat all detainees in accordance with Geneva convention, advocating real climate change legislation (cap and trade), pushing health care reform that would provide millions of Americans with insurance and end the evils of rescission and exclusions for pre-existing conditions, Ledbetter act, Justice Sotomayor, shifting the tax burden off the middle class and onto the wealthy, ending Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy, and pushing Israel hard on the issue of settlements while engaging the Muslim world in dialogue.

Yeah, just like Bush.

[Hawkowl]

187. Disagree

I said he continues many of Bush policies, not that he is "just like Bush". A rhetorical distinction in logic that is significant.

Also he has not done ANYTHING to shift the tax burden to the wealthy. The health INSURANCE reform is crap, although I will give him the benefit of the doubt and wait to see a final version. Hopefully we'll get it sooner than the FOUR YEAR timetable he laid out in his speech to Congress. Israeli settlements continue with Netanyahu flipping Obama the big metaphorical bird. Travel restrictions to Cuba were a joke, since anyone could go as long as you went via Canada or Mexico. Cap and trade is nothing but an illusion at this point at best and at worst, another giant bubble market to be manipulated by the vampire squid banksters.

Yes, returning the US to the Geneva conventions is good-- but not a major change. Last time I checked, Guantanamo is still open for its nefarious business. Last time I checked, Obama wants to put all this behind us and not root out and try the war criminals in our midst who perpetrated these crimes in our name. Not to mention that it was announced today, that Obama will extend the abominable Patriot Act provisions pushed by fuhrer W.

So, for now, Obama is simply the master at chump change. Not significant change.

[geek tragedy]

199. Yes, if Obama pushes it, it must be irrelevant.

Cap and trade is worthless because he pushes it. Pushing Israel on settlements becomes worthless because he's done it.

Yawn. The Nader/Hedges collection of whiny children sings the same song over and over.

[Hawkowl]

204. Again

We are back to you being a cheerleader at a junior high football game. I'm criticizing his policies not the man. It's what thinking adults do. You're the one devolving into tea-bagger behavior, i,e; name calling when your intellectual defense of policy is not up to the standard of a middle schooler.

Cap and trade isn't worthless, it has the potential to be catastrophic (the EU has already started, review its results). Making speeches to stop settlements isn't "pushing" anyone. Israel is the number one recipient of US foreign military and domestic aid. If the US wants to stop Israel from doing something, it could easily exert a lot more pressure. (for example see Eisenhower and the Suez crisis, back when the US had less influence over Israel).

[Skittles]

12. tool indeed

[geek tragedy]

33. Ha. You described yourself as a supporter of Obama

and here you are agreeing with Hedges that Obama is a corporate tool and the same as Bush/Cheney.

Intellectual dishonesty at its worst.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jannyk]

13. k&r

[branders seine]

15. it is good to be a bank or insurance corporation (same difference)

very good

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

17. Now that you've ranted and raved, Chris,...will you get off the boose and help us?

Otherwise, you are no more useful than the profiteering media that capitulates to the right-wing corporacrats. You are, in essence, doing the same, without the profit (as far as I know). You just sound like another lunatic in spite of the fact you are extremely knowledgeable. Speak in reason and with passion: not out of the raw emotion of anger.

[bertman]

18. He IS helping us, sicksick. He's helping us by reminding some of us and educating others

about what the true consequences of war are--the ones you don't see on teevee because the series gets pulled because it's "tasteless" or whatever fucking excuse they use.

Hell, I'm a vet and if anybody should be raising hell it's me, but I get so caught up in the other daily b.s. that I forget there are more and more walking wounded being manufactured every freakin day by our runaway militaristic imperial government. We need for someone to remind us of this daily and vividly because the corporate media AND OUR GOVERNMENT do everything they can to keep it hush hush.

I like President Obama because he's a welcome change from the Bushes but I'm not giving him a pass on anything. And especially on this.

The amount of money just one of those putrid, cheating, investment banks got for their "bailout" would provide healthcare for many of our veterans for years.

The amount of money we are POURING into Iraq, Afghanistan, Colombia, Georgia, Sudan, Somalia alone would provide the resources for America to rebuild her worn out infrastructure.

Chris Hedges is no lunatic. He's pointing us in the right direction. Wake up!!

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

19. Please, do not patronize me or assume me ignorant or asleep on any of those issues.

I am always aware of what could be happening, never pretending to KNOW everything, as does Hedges. Hedges advocates as drastic direction as any of those we complain.

May I ask, who would you give a "pass"? Anyone, ever?

Do you realize, only a dictatorship could achieve all that Hedges and others seek to change.

Is that concept so difficult to understand? If not, is it acceptable?

Good grief!

[geek tragedy]

28. You can't agree with Hedges and support Obama.

Either Obama is the corporatist sellout enemy destroying our future, or he's worth supporting.

Those who side with Hedges are the enemy of Democrats just as much as the Teabaggers are. And we won't let you forget it.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

36. Question

Who received more money from Wall St than any other candidate in the history of presidential politics?

[geek tragedy]

39. Who received more money in small donations from ordinary Americans

than any other candidate?

Other knee-jerk Obama haters may lap your propaganda up, but it's transparent to those of us outside the extreme leftwing/hug-a-Taliban crowd.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

41. Oh but wait

Whose per capita contribution was the highest on record?

Your bubble is watertight ain't it?

[geek tragedy]

45. Not Obama. But thank you for spreading misinformation.

http://www.cfinst.org/president/pdf/Pres08_M6_Table2.pdf

Obama had a higher percentage of low dollar donors and lower percentage of big dollar donors than did John Edwards, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, Mitt Romney, and Chris Dodd.

So, whenever you want to escape your bubble, go right ahead.

[geek tragedy]

42. You admit that you are an opponent and not a supporter of Obama.

At least you're honest. It's the liars who rec your stuff and agree with you and then turn around and claim to be Democrats and supporters of Obama who should be ashamed for their own lack of personal integrity.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

43. Personal integrity

to you means party uber alles.

Do you support the increase in US presence in Iraq from the "antiwar" candidate.

Do you support the largest military budget in the history of history?

We can pick this up later.

[geek tragedy]

48. Increase in US presence in Iraq? Talk about integrity. nt

[coalition_unwilling]

37. Obama has become little more than a front man for

the fat cats and imperialists. No one so blind as he or she who refuses to see.

[geek tragedy]

38. Then Democrats are your political enemies. You are not our ally. nt

[coalition_unwilling]

44. I campaigned for Obama in 2008. I won't be

making that mistake again.

Actually, you and your type of Democrat are the enemy of the working class.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

59. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hannah Bell]

138. lol. the poster campaigned & voted for obama. he has as much reason to be here as you.

single-payer & getting out of iraq-ganistan ain't "communism".

much as you & yours would like to pretend "Democrat" = "Republican + abortion".

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SammyWinstonJack]

104. +1

:thumbsup:

[datasuspect]

47. but obama IS a corporatist

there is no denying this.

let's not even discuss his failure to roll back ANY aspect of the bush era police state.

[geek tragedy]

53. Eh, there's no debating things with Leninists to whom everyone

is a corporatist tool.

[datasuspect]

57. again

what in particular is it about leftist ideology that so affronts you?

[geek tragedy]

61. It's not leftism, it's ideologically fundamentalist leftists.

Leftism has a lot of very compelling ideas, but leftists tend to be the most impractical, fantasy-oriented people this side of a Palin rally.

[datasuspect]

66. you sound like the best rw stooge.

[geek tragedy]

70. No, stooges are the ones who suggest that Obama is a fascist

but that doesn't mean one can't belong to his fascist party and not be a committed progressive.

[datasuspect]

72. YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON IN THIS THREAD THAT HAS SAID THIS

geez, what is it with right wingers and projection?

[geek tragedy]

74. You said I was supporting fascism because I disagree that Obama

is the enemy of the progressive movement and working people.

And because I reject Leninism.

[datasuspect]

76. i never said that

look, if you don't agree with the struggle of workers or if you think the 8 hour day, the minimum wage, and workplace safety is a bad thing, that's cool.

just don't pretend to be something you aren't.

[dionysus]

98. the hell you're not implying it though, comrade.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

118. shall we bring it up with the commissar?

[geek tragedy]

126. Alles klar, Herr Komissar? nt

[Hannah Bell]

140. he didn't say that. not only can't you argue on the basis of policy, you

can't even argue on the basis of reality.

smear is all you got.

[geek tragedy]

27. Hedges is a Naderite wanker who bloviates from behind a keyboard. nt

[Toasterlad]

87. And? That Doesn't Make What He Wrote Any Less True.

[geek tragedy]

106. Naderites are the world's biggest fools and collectively

have less credibility than Glenn Beck's pinky.

[Toasterlad]

113. Again, And? What Does Your Opinion of the Author Have to Do With the Truth of His Article?

[geek tragedy]

114. He's pushing Naderism and Teabaggerism.

He's openly calling for people to actively oppose and undermine the agenda of Obama and the Democratic party, both of which he views as agents of evil.

If you agree with Chris Hedges, you have no place in the Democratic party.

[Toasterlad]

120. He's Pointing Out that Obama Is a Corporatist.

This is fact. It is not, however, news. To his credit, only the most gullible of his supporters ever believed he was anything else. Still, it behooves all of us to point out at every opportunity that the President of the United States is not working for the interests of the American people, but rather for the interests of a handful of board of directors. This is an important message, and frankly, I don't care WHO puts it out there, as long as it gets out there.

[geek tragedy]

130. Not all of us are Naderites who want to destroy the Democratic

party.

So, no, for some of us your agenda makes you the enemy just as much as the "Obama wants to socialize medicine" paranoids are.

This is DEMOCRATIC underground, so you can expect actual Democrats to push back on your Naderite propaganda.

[Hannah Bell]

144. when "democrat" = "republican + abortion," the party is doing a fine job of destroying itself.

[geek tragedy]

149. Yes, it's that simple.

Which is why the stimulus bill was 100-0. Ditto the climate change bill, S-CHIP, Ledbetter, etc.

[Toasterlad]

161. I Don't Give Two Shits WHICH Party Gives Me What I Want, As Long As I Get What I Want.

Your blind loyalty to the Democratic party is just as nutty and counter-productive to this country as those Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh fans. Contrary to your warped perceptions, Obama does not shit gold and piss rainbows. He's a fucking politician, and, like damn near any politician you can name, he's in business for himself before anybody else. He doesn't give two shits about you, or what you want for this country. He'll do what he needs to do to get paid.

[geek tragedy]

163. I have a much more nuanced view of Obama than your crowd does.

He makes mistakes. He doesn't take strong enough stands against Wall Street and against homophobia.

But, in general he is trying to change things for the better.

You Chris Hedges types think he's the enemy--not someone who needs to be lobbied, but someone to be opposed blindly. He is the enemy to you, and your criticism is not to hope he gets better, but to erode his support and weaken him.

You are Leftwing Teabaggers.

[Toasterlad]

172. Anyone Who Doesn't View ALL Politicians With Suspicion Is a Child

I don't want Obama to fail. I want him to do what he PROMISED, which, so far, I've seen no evidence he intends to do. Because of sychophants like you, he doesn't have to.

People like you are the reason this country is in the shape it's in today, not people like me. Start holding politicians accountable instead of sucking them off, and we might be able to get something done in this country.

[geek tragedy]

175. Homophobia, ad hom insults, and lies.

Quite a tidy package of garbage from you.

I do believe in holding him accountable.

But, to hold him accountable implies that you'll also support his good decisions.

Hedges and his ilk don't believe Obama does anything right--everything from them is a screed talking about how awful Obama is. They talk about him like he's the Devil.

They're holding him accountable like Joe Wilson was.

[Toasterlad]

178. Homophobia - That's a Good One.

I wasn't aware that you Obamabots were programmed for that defensive tactic. Regardless, you'll want to go back to the factory as soon as possible for a tune-up, because you're using it regardless of context, which is never good, and generally more Freepish than you see in a typical Obamabot, although not MUCH more.

You can ask them to check out your lie detector as well...it also seems broken.

Obama DID do something right: he lifted the ban on stem cell research. I'm sure he's done a few other small-fry things that I've missed that I'd agree with, but as far as the big campaign promises I was most interested in go:

Gay Rights - FAIL
Iraq/Afghanistan - FAIL
Healthcare - FAIL

You can keep sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling "CHRISHEDGES!NADER!CHRISHEDGES!NADER!!!" all you want, but that won't fix the country.

[geek tragedy]

180. Yes, insulting Obama supporters

as his 'cocksuckers' is real homo friendly.

Anyhow, it is evident that you share Hedges' visceral hatred of Obama and his supporters, but don't have the guts to admit it.

[Toasterlad]

184. I'm Not Insulting the Activity OR the People Who Engage In It

I myself enjoy a nice dick. I'm insulting the mentality which is more interested in pleasuring Obama than holding him accountable for his failure to substantially deliver on ANY of his major promises.

I think now's about the time you're programmed to switch to the "Obama can't do it alone" defense, which is traditionally countered by the very true claim that Obama is a shitty leader more concerned with bipartisanship than with progress (if you believe that he's actually ATTEMPTING progress). However, I believe I'll bail at this point: as entertaining as debating you 'bots can be, it's ultimately pointless, as you lack the free will to think for yourselves, and thus your opinions cannot be changed.

Good luck with that homophobia/liar upgrade, though!

[geek tragedy]

198. I love how people who completely unaccomplished in their own life

feel fit to pontificate on Obama's ability to get things done.

And that those who engage in mindless bashing of him fancy themselves free thinkers and noble dissidents, instead of garden variety Internet cranks.

[Toasterlad]

212. And I Love How People Who Don't Understand How Democracy Works Look Down On Those Who Do

We are SUPPOSED to hold our elected leaders accountable. We are SUPPOSED to express displeasure when they don't do what we want them to do. We are SUPPOSED to let them know when they are failing.

I'll repeat this simple truth, although I know it's a concept that exceeds your programming:

People who blindly agree with whatever their party does - no matter which party it is - are the reason nothing ever gets done in this country. YOU are more responsible for all the crap Obama HASN'T done than he is.

And I'm curious: does anyone who's not the President rate as "completely unaccomplished in their own life" to you? Because that's definitely the broadest brush EVER to be used on DU. My sincere congratulations to you.

[dionysus]

229. do you *really* consider trashing obama on a message board as some kind of noble activism?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Toasterlad]

236. No, That's Just Fun.

I save the activism for the emails and phone calls to the White House and my congresspeople, as well as things like the Equality March on Oct 11th.

I'd ask you to join us, but I see you're already busy keeping your head up Obama's ass.

[dionysus]

238. "keeping your head up Obama's ass" uh, not really. but you may continue to work yourself into a rage

you got 7.5 more years, enjoy.

[dionysus]

219. .

:spray:

[dionysus]

218. well, you have clearly expressed your hatred of obama. let it simmer, and hold it close.

:hi:

[Toasterlad]

222. Oh, Sweetie, I Don't Waste My Hate On Obama.

There are too many people in this world who are ACTIVELY TRYING TO KILL ME without me wasting hatred on someone who's merely standing on the sidelines twiddling his thumbs. No, the strongest emotion Obama evokes in me is contempt. But I don't hate the man. I'm sure he considers himself a good man, and I hope his wife and children consider him one as well. In fact, he might even BE a good man, as long as he's not expected to do anything on behalf of gay people, or middle class people who can't afford insurance. But, at the end of the day, good man or no, he's still a corporate shill.

[dionysus]

225. dunno, he seems to really piss you off

[Toasterlad]

233. That's Only Because You're Drunk.

[dionysus]

234. you don't make a bit of sense dude... you ooooooze hate for the guy, and

apparently anyone who supports him. that sir, is obvious.

[dionysus]

215. so obama's just in it for the money? give me a fucking break.

:rofl:

[Toasterlad]

216. Not At All. He's In It Primarily For the Power.

The money is just bonus.

[rhett o rick]

206. When the Democratic Party let the corporatists in like you, the part is destroyed. nt

[Ulysses_The_Red]

258. Democratic

Not a word owned by the Democratic Party. I'd like to see some democracy in America, and wonder when we'll have to be organizing underground to work for it. Precisely because Barry lacks the spine to do anything but roll over and play dead every time the far right tells him to jump.

Four words: END OF LIFE CARE.

[rhett o rick]

207. So you support Glenn Beck's pinky. Fuck off asshole. nt

[ddeclue]

20. K&R - tiny changes that someday maybe someone somewhere might believe int..

:eyes:

[emilyg]

21. k/r

[Dr.Phool]

25. Kick!

[geek tragedy]

26. More horsecrap from DU's Democrat-hating, Naderite, Republican-aiding and abetting brigade.

Fortunately, the people who post and rec this stuff are a a mere pimple on the ass of American politics.

[Myrina]

78. Rahm, is that you?

:shrug:

[geek tragedy]

109. Ralph, is that you?

Naderite are the dumbest fucking people on the planet.

[datasuspect]

35. during the last depression in the 1930s

there was a very real threat of fascism in this country. however, there was also a populist left-wing movement of socialists, communists, unionists, workers, new dealers, and farmers who beat back this threat.

now, during our depression lite in the 21st century, the stage is being set in much the same way, except there is no effective left-wing movement to suppress the terrorism of the reactionaries.

i wonder why.

[geek tragedy]

40. How does declaring war on Obama help beat back the forces

of fascism?

[datasuspect]

46. the issue is bigger than obama

and he might even be complicit in the totalization of corporate dominance and control of the government.

let me ask you one question: can you see any benefit of a resurgence of a viable left wing movement in this country?

[geek tragedy]

49. I would support an effective one.

The purist Leftwing Teabaggers are not achievement oriented.

[datasuspect]

55. a viable one encompasses an effective one

so you agree that there is no left wing movement in this county at the level of national politics (maybe with the exception of a few hangers on in the progressive caucus)?

[geek tragedy]

63. The one that exists has contempt for the 98% of the country that

doesn't agree to it and is insulted by the idea that it should have to convince people.

[datasuspect]

65. you just puked your true colors

and you are the enemy of free people.

[geek tragedy]

68. Yes, because I support the fascist Obama.

You're worse than the Teabaggers, comrade. Maybe North Korea would be more to your liking.

[datasuspect]

71. i don't think you're even an Obama supporter

[geek tragedy]

73. Well, your judgment is Rumsfeldian. nt

[datasuspect]

75. i think you are in over your head

[geek tragedy]

125. I haven't seen you post a relevant fact to back

up your claims, comrade.

[bertman]

80. geek tragedy, I'd really like to see you argue your points instead of resorting to name calling.

It's a weak and childish approach.

It is entirely possible that one can support a President while not agreeing with all of his policies and actions. Actually it's recommended that thinking individuals not accept the window dressing as reality, but look deeper to see what's really going on. And, if they do not like what they see, it's recommended that they express their dissatisfaction and then try to influence the process. This is called democracy.

[geek tragedy]

82. The other individual accused me of being a paid operative

and a fascist.

No one agrees with all of Obama's policies. I certainly don't.

But, I also don't consider him the enemy of working people and the equivalent of Bush/Cheney like Hedges and many people here do.

[datasuspect]

84. why do you persist in ATTEMPTING to put words in other people's mouths?

i said you are "carrying water."

that denotes you are doing the work for the corporatocracy. i never said you got paid for it.

plus, the entire political system is the enemy of the working class. not any specific politician. they are just part of the problem. the problem lies in the institutions themselves.

[Hannah Bell]

148. i don't think he is either.

[dugaresa]

99. i suspect that why we have not effective left wing is because

the lefties today are still riding on the fumes of the 1930's movements.

They live pretty well compared to those fighting lefties of the 30's. Those folks were immigrants and first generation americans who had left behind the Old Europe with its Czars and Princes and remnants of serfdom and they moved to America to live well.

They got shafted, they gave up their homes and a way of life their ancestors knew for probably thousands of years to get away from being shit on in Europe and the got shafted by the American Dream. The American Dream ended up meaning trading a royal Czar for a corprate Czar (Carnegie, Frick, etc).

They had nothing else to lose and they fought and died to change things.

How many of us are passionate enough to die for a left wing cause? Those folks were and they did.

Today's lefties are well educated, well fed, and generally do okay. Yes some are poor but not dirt poor like those folks in the 30's were.

Only when people have nothing left to lose will they become a force to be reckoned with.

The sick irony is that the Beck followers are the kind of folks that are too dumb to know that the real reason this country is on a bad track is due to kissing capitalism's ass all the time.

edit: got hyper posting left out words

[leftstreet]

209. +1

Excellent points

[tama]

251. Perhaps

people are smarter than that. New Deal and left-wing movement gave capitalism a whole century more to do what it does, capitalism that was "better regulated" war economy and then again, unregulated. To quote Bush: "Fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

What beats me is why should capitalism be saved in the first place, it cannot be and shouldn't be. As for socialists, I wish all the best for the old and new states on socialist path, but cannot really trust socialist technocrats managing their mass society to deliver the communist-anarchist eutopia they promise. Been there, done that, wasn't fun.

What is fun and empowering is "eutopia" right here, right now: the shrooming of ecocommunities of all kinds, from and at the bottom, without any guidance from a hierarchical central organization, from an avant-guarde party leading a mass movement. Just horizontal networking of many kinds, deep memories finding new expressions and practices.

[indepat]

60. Considering junior's and DC's abysmal ratings as their reign ended, I guess it would have been to

much to have hoped some of the major reasons for this almost universal disapproval would have been addressed/corrected/reversed post-haste by, for starters: ending aggressive wars of choice, restoring the rule of law and the eviscerated Constitution, bringing known war/other administration criminals to justice, purging the heavily politicized Department of Justice. Silly me. :P

[Echo In Light]

69. Rec for Chris Hedges!

[Butch350]

81. Blah Blah Blah

Where's your weiner for president in 2012 thread?

[berni_mccoy]

85. Yep, the left has Teabaggers too.

[dionysus]

91. "The right wing is not wrong. It is not the problem. " what a pile of horse shit. this hedges guy

is a douchebag. let me guess, a kucinateer or a nader guy?

[Kermitt Gribble]

94. How dare you

post an article critical of Obama!!! LOL! Some of the posts in this thread are comical - comical because they cannot refute the OP, just accuse people in agreement with the OP of not being 'a supporter' (or fan, by their definition). Reality can be harsh - for some, it's easier to just not accept it.

K & R

[Name removed]

108. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[berni_mccoy]

111. "He is squandering the country’s future with deficits that can never be repaid"

Yeah, that's so true. NOT.

Who created the massive deficit again? It wasn't Obama. The fact is, this piece was written using RW talking points. And too many here have listened to the right too many times.

"The right is not wrong." YEAH RIGHT BUDDY. This whole post was posted by one of the biggest Obama haters on the site and was designed for one thing only: shit-stirring.

[geek tragedy]

142. This site gets lots of page views from the Obama haters.

They declare him the enemy of all good things, and then wonder why they get labeled Obama haters and treated like the enemy.

[dionysus]

232. you don't say. i was starting to get that impression myself...

:rofl:

[ooglymoogly]

97. Right on brother telling it straight, it is now or we are doomed to the worst. kr nt

[katandmoon]

102. K&R!!!!!!!!!!!

[Name removed]

112. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cowpunk]

115. Exactly right! The American people know they're getting screwed

"If we do not tap into the justifiable anger sweeping across the nation, if we do not militantly push back against corporate fraud and imperial wars that we cannot win or afford, the political vacuum we have created will be filled with right-wing lunatics and proto-fascists."

This is something I've been trying to get across to people for a while. While some of the tea-baggers are nuts, most are not. They are angry with good reason but very misguided by right-wing propaganda. Calling them all nuts only strengthens the right wing's claim to populist anger. This anger is real and powerful and it will sink the Democratic party if they don't start to understand and use it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

116. But..but..fighting lost wars and caving to the corporations is good for the party!!

As the apologists scream.

[Ozymanithrax]

119. Refute this!!!

First problem, Mr. Hedges doesn't have a clue as to the meaning of socialism.
Corporations are Corporations,
Socialism is Socialism,
and never the twain shall meet.
Save in class warfare,
Now ain't that sweet.

He is a socialist, although he practices socialism for corporations.

so⋅cial⋅ism  /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ –noun 1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

And then there is this rediculous and unsubstantiated statement...

He is squandering the country’s future with deficits that can never be repaid.

Just off the top of my head, higher taxes on the wealthy and a good economy will pay off this deficit. See President Clinton's tax increase and his successful reduction of the deficits until President W went on the borrow until you drop cycle.

He is forcing us to buy into a health care system that will enrich corporations and expand the abuse of our for-profit medical care.

Obama passed a health-care bill without Congress knowing about it? Damn, I missed that. To be serious, no health care bill has passed. Now, once we get one, I am willing to either support or criticize this statement, providing you have some substantiating facts. Now, if you want to criticize any of the bills in commmittee that have been put out, we can talk. But Obama did not write those. Listen to his speach for guidelines on what he thinks should pass.

Look, if this guy is going to make an argument, it should have some meat to back it up. In five minutes with my 6 year old I can get more real information about these issues than was published in this critique.

[berni_mccoy]

154. Well said. Looks like they can't. They just have hyperbole and rhetoric.

[Hannah Bell]

157. vernacular definition of socialism = "welfare state"

corporate welfare = socialism for corps.

[obamachangetheworld]

171. Excellent Points, n/t.

[dionysus]

231. excellent break down.

:thumbsup:

[Deep13]

135. Just a side note: Sen. Kennedy always regretted not dealing with Nixon.

When Nixon was in office, Ted Kennedy was beginning his career of looking for universal health coverage. Nixon offered a system of mandated, largely employer-based health care that would have insured nearly everyone. It was not as good as a Federal-run system, so Kennedy turned it down thinking he would have a better chance under a D. president. He never did. And he always regretted it.

Like most of you, I would greatly prefer a single-payer, nationalized plan that covers everyone as a matter of right. Still, what POTUS talked about in his Congressional address is a tremendous step foreward.

[berni_mccoy]

146. IF OBAMA WERE A CORPORATIST as this article suggests

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/berni_mccoy/774

[Orwellian_Ghost]

151. Hmmm

"Look, I am a pro-growth, free-market guy," Barack Obama declared in an interview on CNBC. "I love the market."

[berni_mccoy]

152. That doesn't make him a corporatist.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

156. What does that make him in your opinion? n/t

[berni_mccoy]

158. Why don't you define the term, because whatever you think it is, isn't what it really is.

[Ozymanithrax]

188. Words have real meanings.

Socialism means something. It has a real definition. By attempting to redefine the word you the writer is doing the same things as Republicans who sought to redefine "liberal" as "socialist" (the words are not synonymous) or who successfully made liberal a dirty word in much of the US. Finally, words are symbols and if we don't have common agreement to what a symbol means, it means nothing.

Now, what was described (as discussed below) is Corporatism as defined by Mussolini where in the state allies cwith orporations to the detriment of the people. (Corporatism is one flavor of fascism) Clearly, the man who wrote his diatribe did not know what Corporatism was either.

[berni_mccoy]

192. I'm not redefining the word. The OP is.

[tama]

252. "Corporatism

as defined by Mussolini where in the state allies with corporations to the detriment of the people. (Corporatism is one flavor of fascism)"

So, according to this definition US together with all todays capitalist & "liberal democratic" states - regardles of which party is leading - are corporate states, flavors of fascism. Figures.

And as allways, the argument from corporate/fascist people and their dependent serfs (stock holders, factory workers etc.) goes that peasants or "subsistence farmers" (who still are the great majority) or more generally peoples of the land are not real people (to the detriment of whom corporatism and fascism) but need to be civilized and developed...

[Orwellian_Ghost]

220. Hey that's pretty cool

At least you admit you don't know what your talking about.

What an amazing stroke of brilliance bernie. So does it follow that whatever you think it is is what it is? Are you channeling Rumsfeld again?

[obamachangetheworld]

167. Chris Hedges is a Wanker.

Just because he is anti-war doesn't make him an ally.

[Echo In Light]

183. Read his books and get back to us n/t

[obamachangetheworld]

205. LOL?

:rofl:

[rhett o rick]

210. And you know that how? nt

[obamachangetheworld]

217. I have read some of his stuff onTruthdig, and part of War is a force and seen him on CBC

Some of what he says is insightful, but I disagree with many of the things he says. More importantly, I wholly disagree with what he is saying in this OP. That is why I commented how I did, because I believe efforts to reform the health care system should not be jeopardized any further. Efforts at reform are being unfairly attacked from the right, who are given disproportionate airtime and overly influencing conservative democrats. The last thing we need is reform to be killed because we cannot hold up our left flank. You may not agree with me, and that's fine. Hedges, however, is a public figure and I feel perfectly fine about calling him a wanker if he is acting like one.

[ShortnFiery]

177. Hedges is, IMO, spot on about the continued occupations of both Iraq and Afghanistan.

"There is a yawning indifference at home about what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan."

Because many of us are not connected with the military community, we don't see the anguish and grief.

We are misusing our military and it needs to end NOW.

[Echo In Light]

182. The fact that Hedges is such a contentious figure @DU speaks to its dominant moderate registrants

In the past I've sourced C.H. here also, and have seen others do so, and nearly every time the thread quickly splinters between the moderates, who can usually be counted upon to be frothing at the mouth over Hedges' anti-war, anti-corporate views, and those in the minority who simply understand the reality of America's corp/state nexus.

[ShortnFiery]

185. True, and IMNSHO, "moderate" equates to "corporate" ...

Whether "the Average Working American" wish to admit the unglaring FACT to themselves or not, Wall Street runs Bartertown. :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgq4w4dqKsU

[Orwellian_Ghost]

221. And Hedges has been saying

these things before Obama was in office just directing them at the past Pee-resident. When that was the case Hedges was a local icon. My how things have changed. But not really in the policy department.

[midnight]

194. K&R.

[Time for change]

197. Great article

It's true, as RBInMaine says, that Obama is a big improvement over Bush. But anyone who thinks that that is enough just isn't raising the bar high enough.

[Neecy]

213. I'm giving this a K&R

While I think the article goes a little far, I think he's spot-on about the very real danger of our returning veterans, many with untreated PTSD, coming home to no jobs, no hope, no future. And that's a dangerous combination. I have a cousin who's done two tours of Iraq and the guy is a walking time bomb. It's time to bring our troops HOME and not continue to put them through the meatgrinder.

[inna]

230. K+55R

[democracy1st]

240. its ok to call out this admin but to push that rw is right is pure bs

[Senator]

242. K&+R

[Apollo11]

253. The OP belongs on Trotskyist Underground, not Democratic Underground

Saying that President Obama is "a tool of the corporate state" goes beyond what I would call legitimate criticism.

Hedges appears to be saying that we should stop supporting Obama, quit the Democratic Party and start a Communist Revolution.

[Ulysses_The_Red]

259. Because you have no legitimate argument against it.

[blindpig]

260. Kick for the apoplectic hystericals..

Quite illustrative and entertaining.